[00:00:01]
CLOSED CAPTIONING PROVIDED BY BUFORT COUNTY.
[I. CALL TO ORDER]
COULD I GET A ROLL CALL PLEASE? CHAIRMAN, BILL DEPA.COMMISSIONER DEBBIE WONDER, COMMISSIONER LISA SKA.
COMMISSIONER MICHAEL SUTCLIFF.
[III. NOTICE REGARDING ADJOURNMENT]
HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION WILL NOT HEAR NEW ITEMS AFTER 9:30 PM UNLESS AUTHORIZED BY A MAJORITY VOTE OF THE COMMISSION MEMBERS.PRESENT ITEMS WHICH HAVE NOT BEEN HEARD BEFORE 9:30 PM MAY BE CONTINUED TO THE NEXT REGULAR MEETING OR A SPECIAL MEETING DATE IS DETERMINED BY THE COMMISSION MEMBERS.
[IV. ADOPTION OF MINUTES]
ADOPTION OF THE MINUTES FOR SEPTEMBER 2ND, 2026.DO YOU HAVE ANY MOVE TO ACCEPT? OKAY, DO I HAVE A SECOND? SECOND.
ALL IN FAVOR TO ACCEPT THE, UH, MINUTES FOR SEPTEMBER 22ND.
THE MINUTES HAVE BEEN ADOPTED.
DO WE HAVE ANY PUBLIC COMMENT? WE DO NOT.
[VII.1. 36 Tabby Shell, Lot 19 (Certificate of Appropriateness-HD): A request by Steven G. Stowers of Architecture 101 (Applicant), on behalf of John and Ashley Gering (Owners), for the approval of a Certificate of Appropriateness-HD to allow the construction of a new 2.5-story Single Family Residential Structure of approximately 4,391 SF and a Carriage House structure of approximately 938 SF, located at 36 Tabby Shell Road, Lot 19 in the Tabby Roads Development, in the Old Town Bluffton Historic District, within the Neighborhood General - HD zoning district. (COFA-10-25-019985) (Staff - Charlotte Moore)]
BUSINESS.UH, CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS, HD REQUEST BY STEVEN STO OF ARCHITECTURE 1 0 1 ON BEHALF OF JOHN AND ASHLEY GEHRING OWNERS.
THIS PROPERTY'S LOCATED IN THE TABBY ROADS DEVELOPMENT, WHICH WAS APPROVED THROUGH A DEVELOPMENT PLAN PROCESS BACK IN 2006.
IT IS ZONE NEIGHBORHOOD GENERAL, A HISTORIC DISTRICT.
THE PROPERTY THAT YOU SEE THERE IS AN IRREGULAR SHAPED LOCATED AT THE INTERSECTION OF TABBY ROADS AND BURNT CHURCH ROAD.
IT IS APPROXIMATELY A 10TH OF AN ACRE OR 4,500 SQUARE FEET ROUGHLY.
UH, HERE ARE SOME PHOTOS OF THE PROPERTY FROM TABBY SHELL, AND YOU CAN SEE IN FRONT, UH, THERE ARE TWO ON STREET PARKING SPACES.
TABBY ROADS DOES, UM, UH, DETERMINE HOW MUCH PARKING IS REQUIRED OFF STREET.
AND THIS PARTICULAR, UM, HOUSE WILL, UH, SATISFY THE REQUIREMENTS.
SOME ADDITIONAL PHOTOS THAT YOU SEE HERE OF THE PROPERTY.
THIS IS FROM, UH, APPROXIMATELY THE SIDEWALK LOOKING SOUTH.
YOU SEE BURNT CHURCH THERE AT THE LEFT AND ROUGHLY THE PROPERTY LINE.
SO I WANNA POINT OUT THAT THE TREES THAT YOU SEE WITH THE WHITE RIBBONS ARE IN THE RIGHT OF WAY.
AND IT INCLUDES ONE OAK TREE HERE THAT YOU SEE THAT'S KIND OF LEANING TOWARDS, UH, BURNT CHURCH ROAD.
THE PHOTO ON THE RIGHT IS TAKEN FROM PLUFF MUD LANE.
UM, AND YOU CAN SEE WITH THE, THE STAKE THERE, THE PROPERTY LINE AND THIS PARTICULAR, UH, UH, PAD HERE, THAT'S TO THE ADJACENT, UH, GARAGE, UH, ON THE ADJACENT PROPERTY.
AND THEN HERE IS THAT HOUSE NEXT DOOR, 34 TABBY SHELL.
AND THE, UM, THE, THE LOCATION OF THE SIDE YARD, UH, IN THAT LOCATION THERE.
SO THE SURVEY, YOU CAN SEE THE FOOTPRINT OF THE PROPOSED HOUSE AND THE CARRIAGE HOUSE, AS WELL AS THE SETBACKS.
AND I WANNA EMPHASIZE THAT THE SETBACKS WERE APPROVED THROUGH THE TABBY ROADS DEVELOPMENT PLAN.
AND SO WE USE THOSE SETBACKS, NOT THE SETBACKS FROM UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT ORDINANCE.
THE HOUSE IS CHARACTERISTIC AT THE CENTER HALL, WHICH WOULD HAVE REQUIRED LARGER, UH, SIDE YARD AND REAR AND FRONT YARD SETBACKS.
UM, BUT AGAIN, WE ARE USING THE SETBACKS FROM THE APPROVED DEVELOPMENT PLAN.
SO THAT IS NOT AT ISSUE TODAY.
ADDITIONALLY, THE LOT COVERAGE IS NOT REQUIRED OF THIS DEVELOPMENT BECAUSE THEY SUBMITTED THEIR PLAN PRIOR TO THE, UM, CHANGE OF THE UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT ORDINANCE TO REQUIRE A CERTAIN PERCENTAGE OF LOT COVERAGE, UH, THE THE IMPERVIOUS SURFACE REQUIREMENT.
UM, I ALSO WANNA EMPHASIZE HERE TOO THAT THERE HAVE BEEN A COUPLE OF VARIANCES BOTH THROUGH THE TOWN, INCLUDING THE REAR YARD SETBACK FOR THE CARRIAGE HOUSE IN SEPTEMBER.
THE, UH, BCA DID APPROVE A FOUR FOOT SIX INCH ENCROACHMENT INTO THE FIVE FOOT REAR YARD SETBACK REQUIRED FOR THE CARRIAGE HOUSE.
WHEN THE TABBY ROADS DEVELOPMENT PLAN WAS APPROVED, THEY ONLY ADDRESSED THE PRIMARY STRUCTURE, THE MAIN HOUSE, BUT, UH, INDICATED ON THE DEVELOPMENT PLAN THAT THE ANY ACCESSORY STRUCTURES WOULD REQUIRE, UM, COMPLIANCE WITH THE TOWN UDO AND THE OFF STREET PARKING, UH, DOES COMPLY AGAIN WITH THE TABBY ROADS REQUIREMENTS.
THE, UH, BUILDING FOOTPRINT, UM, IS, UH,
[00:05:01]
HEATED FOOTPRINT IS BASED ON THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE TABBY ROADS DEVELOPMENT PLAN FOR THIS PARTICULAR LOT, LOT 19, IT WAS 28%, BUT THEY WERE GRANTED A VARIANCE OR A WAIVER TO EXCEED THAT.SO THEIR ACTUAL HEATED SQUARE FOOTAGE IS 1,618 SQUARE FEET.
AND THAT WOULD'VE FALL, THAT WOULD HAVE, UM, THE CENTER HALL HOUSE THAT WOULD BE LESS THAN WHAT'S REQUIRED OF A CENTER HALL HOUSE.
SO THE FOOTPRINT, UM, ALSO IS NOT AT ISSUE TONIGHT, NOR IS THE, UM, THE FLOOR HEIGHTS OF THIS TWO AND A HALF STORY BUILDING.
UM, SO YOU SEE THE SITE PLAN HERE, AND BECAUSE THIS IS AN IREG IRREGULAR SHAPED LOT, IT'S, UM, A LITTLE DIFFERENT FROM WHAT WE NORMALLY SEE.
UM, THE HOUSE IS, UM, PARALLEL TO SHELL ROAD, AND THEN YOU CAN SEE THE CARRIAGE HOUSE IN THE REAR ALONG PL MUD LANE.
IT WILL BE ATTACHED TO, UH, THE MAIN HOUSE, UM, UH, WITH A PORCH.
AND, UM, WHAT I WANNA DO IS START OFF BEFORE I GET INTO THE ELEVATIONS, THERE IS A SHORT VIDEO IF YOU'D LIKE TO DO THIS.
NOW I CAN SHOW YOU, I'LL GIVE YOU A LITTLE BIT OF CONTEXT, UM, BECAUSE I THINK THIS PROPERTY HAS BEEN A LITTLE DI DIFFICULT, I THINK FOR SOME OF US TO VISUALIZE.
UM, THE PROPERTY 36 IS HERE ON THE LEFT AND 34, UH, TABBY SHELL IS ON THE RIGHT.
SO LET ME JUST, HOPEFULLY THIS WORKS EARLIER.
THIS IS A VIEW FROM BURT CHURCH IN THE REAR ALONG PLUFF MUD LANE.
I WAS JUST CURIOUS OF THE BACK.
AND WE CAN COME BACK TO ANYTHING IF WE NEED TO.
UH, AS I STATED, UH, THE HOUSE HAS CHARACTERISTICS OF A CENTER HALL HOUSE.
UM, IT FEATURES, UM, A RAISED, UH, FOUNDATION THAT WILL BE CLAD WITH BRICK, UH, FULL FACADE FRONT PORCH WITH THREE SETS OF FRENCH DOORS, UH, SIDE FACING GABLE, FEATURING A SHED DORMER WITH A ROW OF FIVE WINDOWS.
UM, MATERIALS, UM, NOT CERTAIN MATERIAL.
IT'S STANDING SEAM FOR THE ROOF, NOT CERTAIN OF THE MATERIALS.
SO THAT'S ONE OF THE CONDITIONS THAT WE'VE IDENTIFIED.
UH, CEMENTITIOUS FIBERBOARD, UH, FOR THE WALL CLADDING, UM, THE BOX, UH, COLUMNS HAVE BEEN IDENTIFIED AS FIBER CEMENTITIOUS AS WELL.
THAT IS NOT AN APPROVED MATERIAL, SO THAT WOULD NEED TO BE A DETERMINATION TONIGHT IF THAT, UH, IF THAT IS APPROPRIATE.
THE HOUSE IS TWO AND A HALF STORIES ROUGHLY, UH, 36 FEET IN HEIGHT TO THE RIDGE.
OUR ORDINANCE DOES NOT, UH, SPECIFY, UM, MAXIMUM HEIGHT REQUIREMENTS, BUT AGAIN, THIS IS TWO AND A HALF STORIES, UH, FIREPLACE THERE ON THE LEFT.
THIS IS THE RIGHT ELEVATION VIEW, WHICH WOULD BE NEXT TO THE, UH, THREE FOUR TABBY SHELL.
AND YOU CAN SEE, UH, THE DORMERS HERE AT ON THE ROOF.
THERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF A RECESS HERE IN THE REAR OF THE HOUSE.
LET ME GO BACK TO THE, UM, SITE PLAN.
AND THAT NOTCH THERE IN THE REAR IS BECAUSE, UH, OF, OF THE SIDE YARD SETBACK, IT WOULD'VE ENCROACHED OTHERWISE.
AND SO THIS AREA THAT'S RECESSED WILL BE THE AREA FOR THE HVAC, UH, TO BE LOCATED.
UM, AND YOU CAN SEE HOW THE PORCH IS ATTACHED TO THE REAR.
UM, AND THE CARRIAGE HOUSE AS WELL WILL HAVE AN EXTERIOR STAIRCASE, STAIRS.
HERE'S THE VIEW FROM BURNT CHURCH.
THERE WILL BE SOME TREES, UM, BLOCKING COMPLETE VIEW.
UH, NOT FULL VIEW, BUT SOMEWHAT, UM, FROM BURT CHURCH ROAD.
UH, YOU CAN SEE THAT TALL CHIMNEY THERE WILL BE CLAD AND BRICK, UM, MORE OF A FORMAL CHIMNEY THAN WE NORMALLY SEE.
UM, AND THEN THE CARRIAGE HOUSE IN THE REAR.
AND THERE'S BEEN SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT HOW THAT PORCH WILL BE ATTACHED TO, UH, THE HOUSE, OR EXCUSE ME, THE CARRIAGE HOUSE, HOW IT WILL BE ATTACHED.
UM, AND THIS IS A VIEW INSIDE FROM THE PORCH.
UH, ONE OF OUR CONDITIONS IS, IS KNOWING WHETHER OR NOT THE ARCHITECTURAL EXPRESSION
[00:10:01]
OF THE, UH, OF THE SCREENING THAT NEEDS TO BE ON THE OUTSIDE.AND WE DIDN'T HAVE A DETAIL FOR THAT.
UM, SO THAT'S A SUGGESTED REQUIREMENT.
AND YOU NOTICE ALSO THAT THEY SHOW SLIDING DOORS, WHICH IS, UH, NOT A PERMITTED OPERATION TYPE IN OUR CODE, BUT THIS DOOR WILL NOT BE SEEN FROM PUBLIC VIEW.
UM, AND SO THAT MAY BE, UH, SOMETHING ELSE TO CONSIDER TONIGHT.
WHETHER OR NOT THAT'S APPROPRIATE.
I DON'T KNOW THE MATERIAL OF THE DOOR.
AND HERE IS THE CARRIAGE HOUSE VIEW.
SO I WANNA NOTE ALSO GOING BACK TO THE SITE PLAN, THAT THE PROXIMITY OF THE CARRIAGE HOUSE, AS YOU CAN SEE, IS VERY CLOSE TO THE PROPERTY LINE AND TABBY ROADS, UH, THE ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW BOARD WAS FINE WITH THAT.
SO THE AREA THAT YOU SEE IT LOOKS TO BE IN GREEN IS ROUGHLY THAT ENCROACHMENT.
UM, THERE IS A UTILITY BOX LOCATED HERE.
UM, VERY LIKELY THE UTILITY COMPANY POWER COMPANY WILL REQUIRE IT TO BE MOVED.
UM, AND THAT'S GOING TO BE THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE APPLICANT, NOT THE TOWN AND NOT THE TABBY ROADS.
UM, UH, HARB OR HOA RATHER, UH, FLOOR PLANS, IF YOU NEED TO SEE THAT.
THIS IS BOTH THE FIRST AND SECOND FLOOR.
THE GARAGE, AS YOU CAN SEE, WE WILL, UH, HOUSE AT LEAST ONE VEHICLE.
AND THAT IS ALL THAT IS REQUIRED.
UH, FOR THE OFF STREET PARKING REQUIREMENTS FOR TAVI ROADS, THEY DO HAVE THE TWO ON STREET SPACES LOCATED IN FRONT.
THIS PARTICULAR PROPERTY WAS IDENTIFIED FOR MIXED USE, BUT IT WILL BE USED FOR RESIDENTIAL ONLY.
AND HERE IS THE ATTIC FLOOR PLAN, BUT, UH, IT'S NOT AN ATTIC FOR STORAGE.
THIS WILL BE ADDITIONAL SPACE, A PLAYROOM, AN OFFICE, A BONUS ROOM.
IT DOES MEET THE HEAD HEIGHT REQUIREMENTS.
SO THEY ARE NOT, UM, THEY'RE NOT EXCEEDING THE NUMBER OF FLOORS AND THEY DO MEET THE TOTAL SQUARE FOOTAGE.
UM, THEY'RE NOT EXCEEDING THAT EITHER.
AND THE ROOF PLAN, IF WE NEED TO SEE THIS SECTION AS WELL, UM, DETAILS, AND I CAN PROBABLY BRING THAT UP BETTER ON THE ACTUAL SITE PLAN.
IF WE NEED TO SEE ANYTHING THAT'S SPECIFIC.
UM, THE SOFFIT MATERIAL WILL NEED TO BE IDENTIFIED.
WE'LL NEED TO KNOW WHAT THE MATERIALS ARE FOR THE GUTTER, UH, THAT IS PROPOSED.
THERE IS A PROPOSAL TO HAVE, UM, THE, UM, THE TRIM BOARD AND THE DRIP CAP BE TO BE PVC THAT HASN'T BEEN APPROVED IN THE PAST, BUT THERE ARE OTHER ALTERNATE MATERIALS THAT MAY BE POSSIBLE AND THAT WILL NEED TO BE A DETERMINATION TONIGHT.
UH, THE LANDSCAPE PLAN AND, UM, NOT THE GREATEST OF VIEW, BUT THEY DO MEET THE 75% TREE CANOPY COVERAGE REQUIREMENT.
AND AGAIN, ANYTHING THAT'S PLANTED ON SITE, UM, WE VIEW THAT AS WHAT IT WILL BE AT, UH, THE TIME OF MATURITY.
THERE ARE, AGAIN, SOME, UH, LIVE OAKS OR OAKS, I'M NOT SURE, UM, SPECIFICALLY, UH, THE TYPE.
UM, BUT THEY ARE LOCATED HERE IN THE RIGHT OF WAY, INCLUDING THAT ONE THAT I MENTIONED WAS KIND OF LEANING TOWARDS, WE'RE GROWING TOWARDS BURNT CHURCH ROAD.
THERE IS A FENCE ALONG THE PROPERTY LINE AS WELL.
AND WHAT YOU WILL SEE, UH, IS, UM, THERE ARE BRICK PILLARS THERE AND BETWEEN THE PILLARS WILL BE A POT CARPUS TO SCREEN LIKE YOU SEE OUT IN THE PARKING LOT HERE.
UM, AND THAT'S INTENTIONALLY FOR, UH, THE PRESERVATION OF THOSE TREES, NOT TO GET INTO THE ROOTS OF THE TREES, UH, GROWING ALONG THIS PROPERTY LINE.
SO AGAIN, THE DETERMINATIONS THAT ARE NEEDED.
I DID NOT MENTION THE, UM, THE RAILING SYSTEM AT THE FRONT PORCH.
THERE IS A, A DIFFERENT DESIGN TYPE HERE THAT YOU SEE, UM, THAT IS NOT TYPICAL OF BLUFFTON.
WE DON'T HAVE ANY SPECIFIC REQUIREMENTS IN THE UDO REGARDING THAT, BUT IT IS AS, IT'S NOT TYPICAL, UM, UH, OF THE ARCHITECTURE THAT WE SEE FOR, UH, RAILING SYSTEMS. STAFF BELIEVES THAT YOU SHOULD DETERMINE WHETHER OR NOT THIS IS APPROPRIATE.
THE MATERIAL WILL BE WROUGHT IRON, UM, THE SLIDING DOORS I MENTIONED PREVIOUSLY, AND THEN THE DRIP CAP IN THE WATER BOARD, THAT'S SHOWN IN PVC.
SO THE REVIEW CRITERIA TONIGHT, THERE ARE FOUR.
UM, IF ALL OF THE CONDITIONS ARE COMPLIED WITH, IT WILL COMPLY WITH THE FOUR CRITERIA.
AND THE FINDINGS OF STAFF INCLUDE, UM, SEVEN CONDITIONS.
ONE IS THAT THE FIRST FLOOR HEIGHT, UM, BE AT LEAST, UH, 36 INCHES.
UH, THERE IS AN INCONSISTENCY BETWEEN TWO PLAN SHEETS.
ONE WAS SHOWING, UH, I BELIEVE TWO FEET, TWO INCHES, AND THE OTHER ONE
[00:15:01]
WAS 36 INCHES.UM, SO THAT WILL BE, NEED TO BE CORRECTED TO SHOW, UH, THE 36 INCHES, THE SERVICE YARD, UH, THE HVAC MAY BE FOR BOTH THE HOUSE AND THE CARRIAGE HOUSE.
AND ANY WASTE, YOUR RECYCLING RECEPTACLES WILL NEED TO BE, UM, EITHER AT A SERVICE YARD OR PLACED INTO THE CARRIAGE HOUSE OR HIDDEN FROM YOU.
UM, THE ARCHITECTURAL EXPRESSION I MENTIONED ON THE SCREEN, THE WINDOWS WERE NOT IDENTIFIED, THE TYPE WE ARE, WE SUGGEST THAT THEY BE SIMULATED DIVIDED LIGHTS AND THAT THE CARRIAGE HOUSE WINDOWS ON THE RIGHT AND LEFT ELEVATIONS, UM, HAVE A VERTICAL ORIENTATION.
SO THEY, THERE APPEAR TO BE, AT LEAST TO ME, A COUPLE OF, UH, DIFFERENT ORIENTATIONS GOING ON AT THE CARRIAGE HOUSE.
THE GUTTER MATERIAL WILL NEED TO BE PROVIDED.
UM, WE NEED TO SEE ALL THE TRIM, INCLUDING DIMENSIONS AND CONFIGURATIONS THAT, UH, COMPLY WITH THE, UH, UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT ORDINANCE.
AND THEN THE RAILINGS FOR THE MAIN HOUSE AND THE CARRIAGE HOUSE TO SHOW THE TOP RAIL DIMENSION.
UH, REGARDING THE DETERMINATIONS, THERE ARE FOUR FOR THE FRONT PORCH COLUMNS, MATERIALS, THE DESIGN OF THE BALLISTERS, THE SLIDING DOOR AT THE REAR PORCH.
AND WE NEED TO KNOW WHAT THE MATERIALS ARE AS WELL AS THE USE OF PVC FOR THE WATER TABLE AND DRIP CAT TRIM.
SO YOUR, UH, ACTIONS TONIGHT ARE ONE OF THE THREE.
APPROVE THE APPLICATION AS SUBMITTED, APPROVE IT WITH CONDITIONS OR DENY THE APPLICATION.
AND HERE IS THE SUGGESTED MOTION TO APPROVE AS RECOMMENDED BY TOWN STAFF.
DO WE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR STAFF? I, IF YOU COULD GO BACK AND SHOW ME.
YOU HAD, I WANTED TO STOP YOU, BUT I KNEW YOU WERE ON A ROLL AND YOU DID A GREAT JOB, CHARLOTTE.
THE SLIDING, OH, THERE, GO THERE.
SO THAT, WHERE IS THAT ROOM? THAT'S THE SLIDING DOOR, BUT WHERE THAT IS THE, WHERE IS THAT ROOM? ON THE SITE PLAN? ON THE SLIDE OVER IT.
LET ME, IT'S GOING BEHIND THE HOUSE TO THE GARAGE RIGHT HERE.
SO THE SLIDING DOORS ARE LOCATED AT THE MAIN HOUSE.
AND THEY, AGAIN, THEY'RE NOT VISIBLE FROM PUBLIC VIEW.
AND I NEVER, I ASKED EVEN A COUPLE OF MONTHS AGO, UM, WHEN WE HAD HPRC, BOTH OF US WERE REALLY CONFUSED OVER THE VARIANCE OF THE HEATED FOOTPRINT.
AND KEVIN, YOU WEREN'T HERE, KEVIN WAS GETTING WITH LEGAL.
SO I FIGURED THAT'S PROBABLY WHY WAS HERE TODAY.
WHAT WAS THAT? I NEVER GOT, WE NEVER GOT THE OPINION OF LEGAL ON THAT, ON THE RE BECAUSE THE HEATED FOOTPRINT PERCENTAGE WAS RECORDED AT THE COUNTY.
AND I THINK YOU BROUGHT IT UP.
PART OF THE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT.
SO WHEN WE MADE COMMENT AT THE, DURING THE REVIEW COMMITTEE STAGE, WE WERE KIND OF REALLY EXPECTING THIS TO BE COMPLETELY RETHOUGHT AT THIS POINT BECAUSE OF THE, YOU KNOW, IT'S THE SMALLEST LOT IN THERE WITH THE SMALLEST ALLOWED FOOTPRINT SIZES OR PERCENTAGE OF THAT SMALL LOT AREA.
UM, AND I, I THINK WE'RE ASSUMING THAT THAT GOT RESOLVED AS SOMETHING THAT'S NOT LIKE A, A TOWN REQUIREMENT, EVEN THOUGH IT WAS PART OF THE DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT.
UM, BECAUSE TAB RHODES PROVIDED THE VARIANCE.
WHEN YOU, WHEN YOU SAY A DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT, DO YOU MEAN THE DEVELOPMENT PLAN? FROM THE DEVELOPMENT PLAN? YEAH.
WELL, KEVIN, KEVIN WAS GONNA GET AN OPINION FROM LEGAL.
SO THAT'S WHERE I NEVER HEARD THE OPINION.
I THINK DON'T, WE THOUGHT IT WAS SOMETHING THAT THE TOWN WOULD ENFORCE BECAUSE IT WAS PART OF THE DEVELOPMENT PLAN AND A RECORDED THING IN A PLAT AND NOT NECESSARILY A THING THAT TABBY ROADS COULD JUST SAY NOW IT'S 40%.
YEAH, IT'S NOT A UDO REQUIREMENT.
SO YOU'RE ASKING WHETHER OR NOT THE VARIANCE SHOULD HAVE COME FROM THE TOWN AND NOT TABBY ROADS.
THAT WAS I THINK, OUR, OUR UNDERSTANDING AT THAT, THAT CONCEPTUAL REVIEW.
BUT IT SOUNDS AS THOUGH THAT WAS KIND OF SORTED OUT AND IT WAS THAT THE TABBY ROADS VARIANCE IS A THING THAT WAS NEEDED ON THE FOOTPRINT.
BUT I, I GUESS I GO BACK, WE WERE TOLD WE'D GET A LEGAL OPINION, WHICH I WOULD, THAT JUST GIVES ME COMFORT.
SO I'M KIND OF LOOKING AT YOU PLEASE.
UM, THANK YOU COMMISSIONER SOKA.
AND AGAIN, FOR THE, FOR THE RECORD, AS I DO AT ALL THESE MEETINGS, UH, MY NAME'S RICHARD LAB.
I'M HERE ON YOUR BEHALF, THE HPC TO ANSWER ANY LEGAL QUESTIONS THAT YOU HAVE, UH, HERE TONIGHT.
UM, AND WE DO WORK WITH TOWN STAFF ON A REGULAR BASIS TO ADDRESS THESE ISSUES.
UNFORTUNATELY, THIS QUESTION WAS NOT BROUGHT TO US.
UH, THIS, THIS IS TO THE BEST OF MY RECOLLECTION.
I DON'T KNOW IF MAYBE IT WAS BROUGHT TO ANOTHER ATTORNEY IN OUR OFFICE.
UM, YOU KNOW, THE TABBY ROADS DECLARATION'S ABOUT 105 PAGES.
[00:20:01]
SO IT, IT'S, I'M A LITTLE UNCOMFORTABLE GIVING A FIRM OPINION ON THAT ONE WAY OR ANOTHER.UH, MY UNDERSTANDING FROM WHAT I'VE HEARD FROM CHARLOTTE IS THAT STAFF LOOKED INTO THIS AND FEEL CON CONFIDENT THAT THE VARIANCE COULD BE GRANTED BY, I BELIEVE IT'S, IS IT HARB HARB, UM, THAT STAFF BELIEVES THAT? I'M NOT AWARE OF ANYTHING TO THE CONTRARY, BUT I I HAVEN'T DONE A FULL REVIEW OF THE GOVERNING DOCUMENTS.
I WILL SAY IT IS, UH, IT IS COMMON THAT RECORDED DECLARATIONS INCLUDE VARIANCE PROCEDURES FOR THEIR A RB TO GIVE THEM VARIANCES FROM COVENANTS, UH, FOR JUST LIKE WITH THE, UH, VARIANCE PROCEDURES WE HAVE FOR TOWN ORDINANCES.
USUALLY THERE'S SOME SORT OF HARDSHIP REQUIREMENT.
I, I ASSUME AS MUCH GOES FOR TABBY ROADS.
UH, BUT I UNFORTUNATELY, I CAN'T GIVE YOU AN OPINION ON THAT TONIGHT ONE WAY OR ANOTHER.
BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE THIS WAS A COVENANT ITEM AND NOT A, IT'S NOT A DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT.
SO THAT'S A, IT'S A COVENANT ITEM.
CHECKING ALL MY BOXES IS A TABBY ROADS ELEMENT.
UH, WOULD LET'S THE APPLICANT HAVE ANYTHING TO PRESENT? TREVOR, DO YOU WANNA FINISH WHAT YOU WERE GONNA SAY? OH YEAH.
I THINK, WE'RE YOU READY BACK? SURE.
UH, STEVE STOWERS WITH ARCHITECTURE 1 0 1.
UM, THANKS FOR HAVING US BACK HERE.
I JUST WANT TO THANK STAFF AND, AND THE COMMISSION FOR, UM, SO CAREFULLY REVIEWING EVERYTHING.
AND I DON'T THINK I HAVE VERY MUCH TO ADD TO STAFF'S REPORT.
I JUST WANTED TO CLARIFY A COUPLE THINGS.
UM, FOR THE 10 INCH, UH, BOX COLUMNS, THOSE ARE GONNA BE A PERMA TASK, YOU KNOW, STANDARD COLUMN.
UM, WE'RE NOT TRYING TO WRAP IT IN FIBER, UH, FIBER CEMENT OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
SO, UM, I'M NOT SURE WHERE THAT NOTE IS.
I WENT LOOKING FOR IT, BUT, UM, IT'LL BE A, A COMPATIBLE COLUMN.
I THINK THAT WAS ON YOUR APPLICATION.
THAT MIGHT MIGHT'VE BEEN, YEAH, PART OF IT IS THAT DOCUMENT COMPARED TO THE DRAWINGS TOO.
YEAH, WE'RE NOT, WE'RE NOT TRYING TO DO SOMETHING OUTTA ORDINARY WITH THE COLUMNS
UM, I'M NOT REALLY NOT TRYING TO, THERE, THERE'S THE, THE ORDINANCE SECTION IN THE UDO SPEAKS TO RAILINGS OR COLUMNS OR ANY OF THE SORT OF, UM, ACCESSORY ELEMENTS ON THE SCREEN PORCH.
AND WE DON'T HAVE ANY OF THOSE IN THOSE.
LEMME SEE IF I CAN FLIP BACK HERE WITHOUT MESSING THINGS UP.
BUT THE FRAME ITSELF WILL BE FORWARD.
AND READ THROUGH LIKE THE, I THINK WHAT WE'RE LOOKING FOR IS NOT THAT THE SCREEN COVERS UP THE ALL OF THE, UM, CORRECT, YEAH.
MM, MAYBE NOT, BUT YEAH, IT'S, IT'S A VERY SIMPLE LITTLE SCREEN.
THE DOOR ALMOST FILLS THE ENTIRE OPENING.
I MEAN, IF WE, IF WE NEEDED TO, WE COULD ALSO JUST MAKE THE DOOR THE FULL WIDTH OF THE OPENING.
BUT I DO THINK IT'S GIVEN IT A LITTLE BIT OF, UH, RELIEF ON EITHER SIDE.
DOES THAT, I THINK ADD TO THAT, WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH ON THAT OPENING, UM, ON THE PVC FOR THE BASE TRIM THAT JUST, THAT THAT WATER TABLE ELEMENT JUST TAKES A BEATING AND THERE'S A, THERE'S A CERTAIN COMFORT FACTOR OF THE FACT THAT THAT WILL NOT ROT AND, AND WON'T DETERIORATE OVER TIME.
BUT IF IT NEEDS TO BE FIBER CEMENT, WE CAN MAKE IT FIBER CEMENT.
UM, AGAIN, NOT TRYING TO REINVENT THE WHEEL, I JUST TRY TO LOOK FOR THOSE OPPORTUNITIES WITH TRIM WHERE THEY'RE GONNA GET A LOT OF WEATHER AND TRY TO SERVE OUR CLIENTS WELL WITH, UH, UH, DURABLE MATERIAL ON THE QUESTION OF THE TWO FOOT TWO VERSUS THE THREE FOOT.
THE, I KNOW THIS IS RARE, BUT IT IS ACTUALLY BUILT ON A LITTLE BIT OF A HILL
WELL, SHOWED HER THE PICTURES.
'CAUSE I THINK WE CAN SEE THAT.
I'M SORRY, WHICH ONE, WHICH WAY DO YOU WANNA GO? LIKE THE ACTUAL PHOTOS.
'CAUSE I DID NOTICE THAT COMPARED TO WHAT THE COMMENT ABOUT THE GRADE WAS.
SO THE TWO FOOT TWO IS COMING IN RIGHT HERE ON THIS IMAGE.
I CAN'T REALLY ZOOM IN ON IT, BUT THE, THE TWO FOOT TWO IS THE, UM, IS THE GRADE AT THE SLAB OF THE, UM, CARRIAGE HOUSE, WHICH, 'CAUSE IT'S A LITTLE BIT HIGHER THAN THE STREET.
SO WE'RE THREE FEET ON AVERAGE FROM THE SIDEWALK ALONG TABBY SHELL ROAD.
UM, BUT IT'S, THIS, IT DOES SLOPE UP JUST A LITTLE BIT TO THAT BACK.
SO, YOU KNOW, WE'VE, WE'VE MADE OUR CARRIAGE HOUSE SLAB EVEN, YOU KNOW, A LITTLE BIT ELEVATED FROM, FROM THE LANE IN THE BACK.
SO THAT'S WHERE THAT, THAT VARIANCE IS.
BUT WE FELT THAT THE THREE FOOT WOULD BE MEASURED FROM TABBY SHELL RATHER THAN IN THE BACK.
IT'LL BE THE, YEAH, THE AVERAGE GRADE OR THE AVERAGE AND THERE'S ELEVATION OF THE SIDEWALK.
AND AS LONG AS THE, I THINK WE'LL JUST
[00:25:01]
PROBABLY KEEP THAT IN THERE TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT IS CLEAR ON.AND AGAIN, IF I, IF I COULD ZOOM IN A LITTLE BIT CLOSER.
THESE, THESE, UH, DATUMS OF THESE POINT ELEVATIONS CONFIRM THE, THE AVERAGE ELEVATION ALONG THE FRONT AND THE HEIGHTS OF THE PORCH AND THE SLAB.
WHICH SHOULD CONFIRM THREE FEET.
UM, OUR WINDOWS WILL BE SIMULATED DIVIDED LIGHTS.
I APOLOGIZE, WE DIDN'T GET THAT NOTE ON THE DRAWINGS.
THE, UM, THE METAL ROOF AND THE GUTTERS ARE ALL JUST, UM, A GALVANIZED, UH, METAL PANEL.
UM, AND I THINK THAT WAS THE END OF MY LIST.
I, I LOOK FORWARD TO YOUR QUESTIONS AND, UH, ANSWERING THEM AS BEST I CAN.
I LIKE TO GO AHEAD AND OPEN UP TO DISCUSSION.
UM, I, I MEAN, I'M JUST REALLY OUTTA TROUBLE.
I, IT'S, THIS IS JUST SO MASSIVE AND THERE'S JUST NO RELIEF TO THE BUILDING AT ALL.
I MEAN, THE GARAGE IN THE BACK IS JUST, IT'S STRAIGHT UP AND EVERY DIRECTION AND THE HOUSE IS PRETTY MUCH STRAIGHT UP IN EVERY DIRECTION.
UM, I'M JUST HAVING A REAL, REAL TOUGH TIME WITH THIS ONE 'CAUSE IT'S SO VERTICAL AND, AND REALLY THE ONLY RELIEF WE HAVE IS THAT FRONT PORCH THAT THAT'S SOMETHING THAT'S ON THERE.
I, AND EVEN THE, THE CONNECTOR, IS THERE A REASON THE CONNECTOR IS NOT DOWN AT THE ONE LEVEL? WHY? IT'S TWO STORIES.
UH, IT WAS JUST, YOU KNOW, WE'VE GOT SOME UNUSUAL GEOMETRIES THERE BECAUSE OF THE SITE.
UM, AND TRYING TO, TRYING TO RECTIFY THOSE.
I MEAN, I, I SAID IN OUR VARIANCE HEARING, I PROBABLY REDREW THAT 20 TIMES.
AND THAT'S PROBABLY UNDER UNDERSTATING HOW MANY TIMES WE'VE REDRAWN THAT, THAT JUST TRYING TO BRING THAT ROOF LINE OVER AND RATIONALIZING IT WITH THE, THE MAIN, THE MAIN, UM, MASSING SEEMED TO BE THE EASIEST WAY TO MAKE THAT ALL NICE AND CLEAN.
UM, AND THEN WE PUT THAT LITTLE CLEAR STORY WINDOW IN THERE JUST TO, TO, YOU KNOW, MAKE IT LOOK.
BUT AGAIN, UNIFIED THAT HAS TO, YOU KNOW, BEING VERY VERTICAL.
UM, I MEAN THAT, THAT'S WHAT I'M REALLY STRUGGLING WITH.
LIKE I SAID, THIS IS JUST SUCH A VERTICAL HOUSE.
IT'S EVERY INCH YOU COULD GET OUT OF IT.
UM, IT'S JUST STRAIGHT UP IN EVERY DIRECTION.
SO, UM, I MEAN, I HAVE SOME, I HAVE SOME DETAILED QUESTIONS, BUT I MEAN, YOU PROBABLY HAVE YOU GUYS, I THINK WE CAN START WITH THE DISCUSSION ON THE, THE LARGER OVERALL SCALE YEAH.
UM, COMMISSIONER FRAZIER, DO YOU HAVE ANY THOUGHTS? WELL, I DID, BUT MY OKAY.
PARTNER OVER HERE PRETTY MUCH SPOKE ON A LOT OF IT.
UM, BASICALLY JUST, IT'S MASSIVE IN SCALE IN THE WAY THAT IT, YOU KNOW, THE CONNECTOR AS AS WELL.
IT MIGHT BE HELPFUL FOR US TO HEAR YOUR KIND OF WHAT THE ARGUMENT YOU PRESENTED TO TABBY ROADS AS TO, I MEAN, THIS IS GOING TO BE THE LARGEST STREET FRONTAGE STRUCTURE IN TABBY ROADS.
IT'S KIND OF THE WIDEST TWO STORY, UH, HOUSE THAT THERE IS EVEN, I MEAN, THE NEXT BIGGEST HOUSE IS PRETTY BIG, BUT IT, UH, THEY DO A LOT MORE BREAKING UP ALONG THE FRONT ELEVATION.
I THINK THE EASIEST WAY TO LOOK AT IT IS, IS, IS THE LOT THAT WE WERE GIVEN, UH, FOR THIS, WHICH IS A, A VERY UNUSUAL LOT IN THAT IT'S, YOU KNOW, IT'S, IT BASICALLY FUNCTIONS LIKE A TRIANGLE.
UM, IT'S MORE OF A TRAPEZOID, BUT IT, UH, IF YOU LOOK AT ALL OF OUR, OUR AJA UH, SORT OF ADJACENT HOUSES, THEY'RE ALL VERY LINEAR WITH THE STREET.
THEY'RE, THEY'RE, THEY'RE, THEY'RE THE, THE, THE, THE MAIN BODY OF THE MASS, UM, IS, IS FACING TOWARDS THE SIDE PROPERTY LINE, I GUESS WOULD BE THE RIGHT WAY TO SAY THAT.
RIGHT? WE, WE DON'T HAVE THAT LUXURY HERE BECAUSE IF WE DID THAT, WE WOULD HAVE NO OTHER SITE TO, TO USE.
UM, THERE'S A, THERE'S A CERTAIN SIZE THAT A HOUSE KIND OF HAS TO BE TO FUNCTION ON THE GROUND LEVEL.
AND IF WE TURNED OUR HOUSE SO THAT WE'RE NOT FACING TABBY SHELL AND WE'RE NOT FACING BURNT CHURCH, UH, WHICH WOULD BE SIMILAR TO WHERE THE, THE DIRECTION OUR NEIGHBORS ARE FACING, THERE'S NOT MUCH OF THE SITE THAT'S USABLE THAT'S LEFT.
UM, AND WE, WE WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO HAVE A CARRIAGE HOUSE.
WE WOULDN'T HAVE TO BE ABLE SOME OF THE OTHER, UM, THINGS THAT WOULD BE, YOU KNOW, ACCUSTOMED TO ALL OF OUR OTHER NEIGHBORS.
SO THIS SEEMED LIKE THE EASIEST WAY TO, UM, CITE A SUITABLE HOUSE ON THIS.
I MEAN, IT, IT'S, IT IS A COMPLIANCE CENTER HALL HOUSE, UM, WHICH IS, IS PART OF THE, THE UDO, UH, AND ONE OF OUR TYPOLOGIES.
AND THEN THE CARRIAGE HOUSE THAT WE'VE GOT SHOWN THERE IS MUCH SMALLER THAN OUR NEIGHBOR'S CARRIAGE HOUSES.
UM, SO IT'S A, IT'S A, I MEAN, WE CAN'T EVEN GET TWO CARS IN THERE WITH WHAT'S LEFT IN THE SITE.
SO IT'S JUST A CHALLENGING LOT.
UM, WE'VE TRIED VERY HARD TO RECTIFY THOSE GEOMETRIES,
[00:30:01]
YOU KNOW, IN A, IN A WAY THAT I THINK IS, IS ACTUALLY VERY, UM, YOU KNOW, COMPLIMENTARY TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD.LIKE I THINK IF YOU GO BACK AND LOOK AT THIS, THIS IMAGE, LIKE I DON'T THINK WE'RE OUTTA SCALE WITH OUR NEIGHBOR.
IN FACT, I THINK IF YOU, IF YOU LOOK AT THAT HOUSE, I THINK YOU'D SAY, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE, THEY'RE AS BIG VISUALLY AS WE ARE.
UM, YOU KNOW, WE, WE'VE DONE, UH, YOU KNOW, AN AWFUL LOT TO TRY TO HIDE SOME OF THE SCALE OF THE HOUSE IN TERMS OF THE, THE HALF STORY AND STEPPING THINGS BACK AND, AND DOING THINGS AND USING IT IN A VERY COMPACT PACKAGE.
UM, BUT LIKE, ESPECIALLY IF YOU LOOK AT THAT TOP IMAGE, I DON'T, I DON'T THINK THAT, I FEEL LIKE THAT THAT'S VISUALLY OUT OF SCALE WITH OUR NEIGHBOR IN ANY WAY.
SO, UM, BUT THAT'S JUST, THAT'S MY OPINION.
I, I APPRECIATE THE THREE DII DO LIKE THAT.
AND I'M REALLY, I, I FEEL FOR FAMILIES TRYING TO BUILD, I, I KIND OF GO WITH WHAT JOE UM, SAID THOUGH.
I MEAN I'VE NEVER SEEN A HOUSE BIGGER THAN THE LOT SIZE AND THAT BOTHERS ME.
YOU KNOW, 'CAUSE I KNOW WE'RE GOING THROUGH THE OLD TOWN MASTER PLAN RIGHT NOW, THE UPDATE AND SAW YOU THE OTHER NIGHT.
UM, IT'S THE MASS AND, AND YOU HEAR ME MASS AND SCALE, MASS AND SCALE AND I TRY TO TAKE THE EMOTION OUT OF IT.
IT IS, IT IS, IT'S A STRUGGLE.
UM, AND I DON'T KNOW IF WE, REGARDING LIKE SLIDING DOOR THOUGH, I'LL TELL YOU WE JUST TOLD SOMEONE AN HPRC, THEY COULD NOT HAVE A SLIDING DOOR AND IT IS BEHIND THE SCREEN AND YOU CAN'T SEE THAT EITHER.
UM, UNTIL WE CAN CHANGE THAT IN OUR UDO, I THINK WE HAVE TO STAY PERSONALLY, WHICH I DON'T KNOW HOW THEY FEEL, BUT YOU KNOW, I GOTTA STAY.
IF WE JUST TOLD SOMEBODY THEY COULDN'T, IT, IT REALLY ISN'T RIGHT TO SAY YOU CAN.
SO, UM, THAT BE, I DO KNOW I CAN SPEAK FOR MY CLIENT THAT IF IT NEEDS TO BE A FRENCH DOOR, WE'RE HAPPY TO MAKE IT A FRENCH DOOR.
IT JUST, NOW I'M NOT SAYING SLIDING DOORS AREN'T GREAT.
I THINK WE SHOULD HAVE SOME CHANGES IN OUR UDO, BUT WE DON'T RIGHT NOW.
SO WE GOTTA STICK OR THESE OTHER, YOU KNOW, THEN WE'RE GONNA START.
WELL YOU LET THEM AND OURS IS, OURS IS SCREAM TOO.
SO THAT'S NOT ONLY THING THERE ON SOME OF THE DETERMINATIONS, BUT REALLY IT'S MORE THE KIND OF DITTO WHAT JOE SAID.
AND I, I MEAN I'VE BEEN KIND OF THINKING OF THIS ABOUT THIS LAST COUPLE OF DAYS AND I KNOW THIS HAS BEEN KIND OF A PROCESS FOR YOU GUYS GOING THROUGH TABBY ROSE AND I THINK YOU'RE NOT NECESSARILY THE FIRST ARCHITECT THAT THEY HAD DOING THAT.
UM, YOU KNOW, I WAS KIND OF STARTING TO THINK, TRYING TO THINK ABOUT THE CENTER ALL HOUSE AND THE WEIRD SHAPE LOT AND THE FACT THAT THERE IS SOME MITIGATION FROM KIND OF AS WE'RE LOOKING AT THIS PICTURE HERE, THAT BECAUSE THE LOT IS TRAPEZOIDAL, THERE'S LIKE, THERE'S EXTRA SETBACK ON THE RIGHT SIDE TO THE NEIGHBOR.
UM, AND THEN BECAUSE THE OTHER SIDE IS THE RIGHT OF WAY, THERE'S KIND OF SOME EXTRA DEPTH OF TREES THERE.
SO THERE IS A LITTLE BIT MORE OF, AND WHILE THE SETBACKS AREN'T NECESSARILY DEEPER, THERE'S SOME BETTER VISUAL SEP SEPARATION ON THIS SMALL LOT THAN YOU WOULD KIND OF EXPECT TO SEE IN THE REST OF THE KIND OF THE CORE OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
UH, WHICH I THINK HELPS TO BALANCE SOME THAT THIS IS KIND OF THE BIG LIKE OF THE FIVE BAY PORCH HOUSES THAT ARE IN THERE.
AND THERE'S NOT A LOT THAT ARE REALLY TWO STORY, UM, THAT THIS WOULD KIND OF BE THE BIGGEST ONE.
I THINK THAT IT HELPS THAT THEY CAN PLANT A NICE BIG TREE ON THAT RIGHT CORNER, UM, AS A SEPARATION.
UM, SO I WAS KIND OF LEANING A LITTLE BIT MORE TOWARDS GIVING DEFERENCE TO THE FACT THAT TABBY ROADS HAS APPROVED THE OVERALL KIND OF SIZE OF THIS.
AND IT, WHILE IT'S KIND OF A FLIP FROM THE, I THINK PROBABLY THE ORIGINAL IDEA IN THE PLATTING OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD, THAT THIS WOULD BE A KIND OF A SMALL HOUSE AT THE ENTRANCE.
UM, YOU KNOW, IT, IT DOES KIND OF RELATE TO THEY'VE GOT A NICE FIREPLACE IN CHIMNEY KIND OF RELATING TO THE STREET AND IT SORT OF SETS UP THE ENTRY CORNER AND THEN THE NEXT HOUSE DOWN KIND OF STEPS DOWN THE SCALE AND THEN WE GET INTO THE SMALLER HOUSES, IT GOES DOWN THE STREET.
I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU GUYS KIND OF FEEL ABOUT THAT THOUGHT, THE FACT THAT THERE'S A LITTLE BIT MORE SET SETBACK TO THE SIDES 'CAUSE OF THE TRAPEZOID.
BUT I I I'M, I I LIKE LISTENING TO HEAR YOUR THOUGHTS ON IT.
THE, THE BRICK, THE BUFFER ABSOLUTELY LOVE THE LANDSCAPE WITH THE BRICK CALLED LOVE IT.
'CAUSE IT DOES KIND OF BUFFER IT.
UM, AND I KNOW, I MEAN THERE ARE OTHER, AND, AND I KNOW WE'RE DOING WITH THIS, THERE ARE OTHER BUILDING TYPES THAT FIT ON A LOT LIKE THIS.
AND, AND THERE WERE A COUPLE OF LOTS I THINK I BROUGHT UP TO YOU AT HPRC, BUT UM, I MEAN I, I FEEL FOR 'EM THAT THE LOT JUST DIDN'T EQUATE TO WHAT THE HOUSE THEY WANTED.
[00:35:01]
LIKE, AND YOU REALLY DON'T START THINKING ABOUT THAT I GUESS, UNTIL YOU START WORKING WITH AN ARCHITECT.BUT I HEAR IT AND I, AND I, I'M THINKING THROUGH THAT THOUGHTS ON THE MANSON SCALE.
I MEAN THE HOUSE IS IS ONE THAT I, I, I MEAN I STRUGGLE MORE WITH THE GARAGE AND THE SCALE OF THAT AND HOW THAT, I MEAN THAT WE'RE ONE FOOT EIGHT FROM THE PROPERTY LINE AND IT IS STRAIGHT UP.
I MEAN THERE'S NO, NO STEPPING DOWN, THERE'S NO, I MEAN IT IS STRAIGHT UP AND IT IS RIGHT ON THAT ROAD.
IT'S THE HOUSE AT LEADS TO SETBACK AND I CAN DECIDE IS YES, NICELY DETAILED.
UM, I FEEL LIKE IT'S PROBABLY MORE OF THE GARAGE THAT I HAVE A PROBLEM WITH.
WELL, AND WE COULD WORK ON THE GARAGE TOO IF WE, IF IF THAT'S, IF THAT'S REALLY WHAT'S CONCERNING YOU.
BUT I THINK WHAT I WOULD SAY IS JUST FROM, YOU KNOW, STUDYING THIS AS MANY TIMES AS I REALLY DID, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU HAVE THAT RECTANGULAR ROOF THAT COMES OVER AND GETS KIND OF CLOSE TO THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT MAIN BODY, YOU END UP WITH THAT WEIRD THING THAT HAPPENS WHERE IT'S LIKE, YOU KNOW, YOU GOT A A POINT TRYING TO, YOU KNOW, I DON'T WANT TO TRUNCATE THAT CORNER.
AND, AND MAKE A WEIRD ROOF LINE THERE.
SO IT JUST SEEMED EASIER JUST TO, YOU KNOW, NESTLE THAT IN AND, AND MAKE IT FEEL VERY NATURAL.
WHICH I THINK WE YOU GOT THAT PLAN AND LOOK AT IT.
IF, LET ME DO THIS, UM, IF I MAY INTERJECT FOR A SEC, UH, JUST ONE SECOND BECAUSE ALL OF THESE, ANY DECISION COULD BE POTENTIALLY APPEAL IS VERY IMPORTANT THAT WE TALK INTO THE MICROPHONE SO THAT WHATEVER RECORDING THAT WE HAVE PICKS UP WHAT EVERYBODY SAYS.
'CAUSE THAT FORMS THE BASIS OF ANY DECISION.
WE DIDN'T, WE DIDN'T HAVE HIM REMINDING US.
SAW YOU AT THE BEGINNING OF THE MEETING.
I NEED, I I SHOULD HAVE DONE THAT.
SORRY, I'M VERY SORRY I DIDN'T DO IT EITHER.
CAN YOU GO TO THE FLOOR PLAN ON THAT? SORRY.
I'M NOT SURE WHAT ORDER THEY'RE IN.
CAN YOU GO ONE MORE SEE HOW IT'S SITTING ON THE SITE? THIS ONE YOU HAVE IT? NO, THE ACTUAL SITE PLAN BACK.
I MEAN, DID YOU LOOK AT IT AGAIN, I DON'T WANNA DESIGN IT, BUT DID, WAS THERE ANY THOUGHT OF MAKING IT PARALLEL WITH THE HOUSE? YES, AND COMING IN FROM THE SIDE, WE, WE HONESTLY, WE, WE HAD SO LITTLE SPACE THERE THAT YOU COULDN'T EVEN GET A DRIVEWAY KIND OF RIGHT IN THAT, IN THAT AREA.
'CAUSE IT'S JUST NOT WIDE ENOUGH AND IT'S A DEAD, DEAD END ALLEY.
SO YOU'VE GOTTA HAVE SOME CONSIDERATION FOR BEING ABLE TO BACK OUT.
SO DID YOU GUYS HAVE ANY STUDIES OF THAT GARAGE THAT HAD A LOWER, LOWER BEARING AND MAYBE SOME DORMERS INSTEAD OF KIND OF THE HIGHER BEARING PLATE ON THE ROOF? ON THE, ON THE GARAGE.
I MEAN THAT'S CERTAINLY AN OPTION.
WE WOULD LOSE THE ACCESSORY DWELLING UNIT, UH, WHICH IS SOMETHING THAT ALL OF OUR NEIGHBORS DOWN THE LANE HAVE.
BUT YOU LIKE, BECAUSE OF THE WEIRD SHAPE, YOU WEREN'T REALLY ABLE TO RESOLVE GETTING PROGRAM UP THERE WITH A LOWER BEARING AND A, IT'S LIKE 400 SQUARE FOOT FOOTPRINT.
OTHER, OTHER DISCUSSION ON THE SCALE OF THE BUILDING.
SO COMMISSIONER PROBES, IT SOUNDED LIKE YOU WERE KIND OF COMFORTABLE WITH LIVING THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE.
THE MAIN MASS OF THE HOUSE IS PRETTY LARGE, BUT IT, IT, IT IS VERY LARGE.
I MEAN, I, I COULD COMPROMISE ON THAT WITH A SMALLER SCALE OF THAT GARAGE 'CAUSE THAT THEY'RE ASKING FOR THAT.
I, I JUST THINK IT'S TOO VERTICAL.
I MEAN IT IS STRAIGHT UP AND IT IS RIGHT ON THAT RIGHT ON THAT STREET.
UM, I WILL SAY IF YOU, UH, I DON'T KNOW THAT THE, THE PHOTO IS IN THIS PRESENTATION, BUT I HAVE A PHOTO THAT WE SUBMITTED PREVIOUSLY, WHICH SHOWS THAT THAT WHOLE RUN OF THAT LANE YEAH.
AND THERE'S A LOT OF VARIABILITY IN THAT LANE IN TERMS OF HOW THE CARRIAGE HOUSES ARE.
AND UM, SO THERE'S, THERE'S NOT REALLY A, A STRONG LIKE VERTICAL, YOU KNOW, ALIGNMENT BETWEEN THE CARRIAGE HOUSES.
THEY KIND OF STEP IN, BUT YOUR NEIGHBOR'S HOUSE IS WAY BACK THERE.
BUT THERE'S SOME OTHER ONES THAT ARE, THAT ARE RIGHT OUT ON, ON THAT LANE.
UM, I'M NOT SURE IF IT'S BY VARIANCE OR, OR
[00:40:01]
HOW IT'S, BUT THE UM, UH, OVERALL THOUGH WE ARE THE HOUSE, THE LAST HOUSE ON THE LANE.UM, SO THERE'S NOT REALLY ANYBODY SORT OF TRANSITING AT THAT SIDE.
UM, AND IT'S, IT'S QUITE FRANKLY, IT'S ASIDE FROM THAT ONE VIEW THAT I WAS SHOWING YOU, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT THAT GREAT.
IT'S NOT ALL THAT TERRIBLY VISIBLE FROM BURTON CHURCH EITHER.
UH, ESPECIALLY ONCE WE GET ALL THE LANDSCAPING IN THERE WAS A FAIR, THERE'S A FAIR NUMBER OF TREES THAT WE'RE KEEPING ON THE BURN CHURCH SIDE THAT'S OUTSIDE OF OUR PROPERTY LINE.
MR. PARLER, ARE WE ABLE TO PULL THAT PICTURE UP FROM THE MEETING PACKET? LET'S SEE, I THINK THIS ONE'S A LITTLE CLOSER.
IS THAT THE AGENDA TAB? YOU STEP BACK THERE'S, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF VARIABILITY IN THE FACADE.
WHILE SHE'S DOING THAT, SOMEBODY, SO I KEEP HEARING THAT'S A DEAD END.
IS THAT GONNA BE, HAS THAT BEEN CALLED, HAS THAT BEEN APPROVED BY THE TOWN? THAT IT DOESN'T, IT IS NOT A THREE-WAY YOU'VE NEVER CONNECTED TO, TO MY CHURCH IS WHAT I'VE BEEN TOLD BY KEVIN.
I MEAN THERE, THERE'S BEEN A GRAVEL ROAD THERE, BUT I HAVEN'T, I DIDN'T PAY ATTENTION TO IT TODAY WHEN IT WENT BY THERE.
AND I GUESS I'M ASKING THAT AND I'M JUST TRYING TO RESOLVE THIS IF IT TRULY, 'CAUSE I KNOW TABBY SHELL WAS AT ONE TIME GONNA BE STAY AT AS THE TOWN TO CUT IT OFF, BUT THEN THEY NEVER DID.
BUT IF THAT ALLEY IS TRULY A DEAD END AND WILL NEVER BE APPROVED BY THE TOWN 'CAUSE WE APPROVED THAT PLAN, WHY ISN'T THERE SOME DISCUSSION WITH, AND I'M NOT, I DON'T WANT TO PUT Y'ALL OFF A MONTH, BUT I'M JUST THINKING WHY ISN'T THERE A DISCUSSION ON YOU JUST TAKING MORE OF THAT IF THAT IS YOUR CUL-DE-SAC.
I MEAN IT'S BASICALLY THE ONLY PEOPLE GOING THERE ARE COMING TO SEE YOU AND, AND THEN DROP, WELL NOT YOU, YOU DROPPING OFF GROCERIES OR WHATEVER.
BUT I, I GOT GUESS I GO BACK TO THAT.
HAS IT BEEN APPROVED THAT THE TOWN'S ALLOWED THAT THAT MAY I, YES.
UM, SO I, I WAS LUCKY ENOUGH TO BE AT THE BZA MEETING AS WELL WHEN THIS VARIANCE CAME UP.
AND I'LL QUESTION THE SAME THING MYSELF.
WHAT'S GONNA HAPPEN WITH THE REG? SO I LOOKED AT THE SUBDIVISION PLA THE SUBDIVISION PLA SHOWS A CLEAR TERMINUS RIGHT THERE ABOUT WENT HALFWAY YEAH.
UM, AND THE REMAINDER OF IT THAT BUFFERS ALONG ME CHURCH ROAD IS PRESERVED COMMON AREA.
I GUESS IN, IN THEORY AT SOME POINT THEY COULD PETITION THE TOWN TO RUN IT THROUGH, BUT I DON'T ANTICIPATE THAT WITH THE OTHER ROAD THAT CONNECTS.
UM, AND I THINK BECAUSE OF THE E THE NATURE OF THAT, THE EASEMENTS AND THE RIGHTS OF THE PARTIES INTO THE, IN THE ROAD AS WELL AS THE COMMON AREA, IT IS PROBABLY A, A, A MUCH BIGGER ASK THAN THE VARIANCE REQUEST TO ALLOW THEM TO GO INTO THE SETBACK.
NO, I I JU I IT IT COULD HAVE BEEN OPEN JUST 'CAUSE OF CONSTRUCTION.
AND I I THANK YOU FOR LOOKING AT THAT.
SO THAT ENDS, THERE'S, IT'D TAKE A VOTE OF THE WHOLE WHATEVER.
I I IT WOULD, IT'S, AND I KNOW THAT'S A BIG ASK, BUT I'M JUST TRYING TO THINK OF OUT OF THE BOX WAYS TO FIGURE OUT THIS GARAGE.
AND I, AND I DO THINK IT'S OPEN RIGHT NOW FOR THE CONSTRUCT FOR SOME CONSTRUCTION.
THE TELEPHONE POLE IS OPEN, BUT WE'RE TO THE LEFT OF THE TELEPHONE POLE IN THAT TOP PICTURE.
SO TO THE RIGHT YOU CAN DRIVE THAT MAINTENANCE LIKE A CATTLE GATE, BUT TO THE LEFT IS WHERE WE WOULD END UP.
BUT YOUR PLAN, BUT YOU LOOKED AND THE PLAN TRULY SHOWS THAT IT ENDS.
THE PLAN DOES NOT SHOW IT GOING ALL THE WAY TO BURN CHARGE.
IT SHOWS DETERMINIST RIGHT THERE ABOUT HALFWAY THROUGH THEIR LOT.
UH, PLUCK MUD LANE'S ALSO LABELED AS A POWER LINE EASEMENT.
SO YOU'RE NOT REALLY ABLE TO BUILD INTO IT AT ALL.
AND THEN, UM, I WOULD FIND IT HARD TO BELIEVE THAT THE DOT WOULD GIVE A SECOND CURB CUT THAT CLOSE TO TABBY SHELL.
UM, SO I DON'T THINK THAT'LL EVER GO THROUGH.
JUST, I WAS JUST TRYING TO THINK.
I I THOUGHT THE SAME THING STARTED LOOKING SAME STAGE.
SO THIS IS LOOKING TOWARDS BURNT CHURCH, BUT THE, YOU'RE KIND, IT'S NOT HELPING.
'CAUSE ALL OF THESE ARE SET BACK FURTHER AND THEN YOUR GARAGE IS GONNA COME BACK EVEN FURTHER TO THE ABOUT WHERE THE JEEP IS, RIGHT? AM I, IS THAT WHERE ABOUT WHERE THAT LOT IS? I'M LOOKING FOR THE JEEP.
UH, NO, THE JEEP IS ACTUALLY OUT FURTHER THAN WHERE OUR CARRIAGE HOUSE, I'D SAY WE WOULD BE PROBABLY EVEN WITH THE LEFT DOOR OF THE JEEP.
THAT'S WHERE I WAS THINKING SOMEWHERE WITH THAT JEEP.
I THINK THE POINT OF, OF ME BRINGING UP THE END IS JUST THERE'S, THERE'S TWO CARRIAGE HOUSES THAT ALIGN AND THEN ONE STEPS OUT AND THEN ONE STEPS BACK.
IT'S HARD TO SEE THE ONE THAT STEPS BACK, BUT THERE'S NOT A, THIS IS NOT A LANE THAT HAS A UNIFORM FACADE OF OR ALIGNMENT OF THE FACADES GOING DOWN.
THERE'S A LOT OF VARIABILITY AS YOU GO DOWN THERE, WHICH IS NICE.
[00:45:01]
IT, IT, IT GIVES IT, UH, UH, SOME DIVERSITY.BUT LOOKING AT THESE, THESE ALL LOOK LIKE THEY'RE ONE AND A HALF STORIES.
SO I THECA AND THIS ONE, THAT ONE NEXT TO YOU THAT HAS A LOWER ROOF AND THE ONE DOWN BELOW IT THAT YOUR NEXT DOOR NEIGHBOR HAS A LOWER ROOF TO BREAK UP THAT FACADE.
BUT AGAIN, ALL OF THESE LOOK LIKE THEY'RE ONE AND A HALF STORIES WITH THE DORMER IN THE, I THINK THE ONE BY THE POWER POLE.
THE ONE NEXT DOOR TO US IS A IS A TWO STORY.
THIS ONE AT LEAST HAS A ROOF THOUGH THAT BREAKS THAT MASS UP.
I THINK IT'S JUST FACE, WE'RE JUST FACED DIFFERENTLY.
DID YOU HAVE AN IMAGE? I I THOUGHT I SAW YOUR IMAGE THAT HAD A ROOF HEAD ON THAT AT ONE POINT ROOF.
DO WE HAVE A, CAN WE GO UP? MAYBE IT'S RIGHT HERE.
YEAH, IT'S NO, NO, NO IMAGE OF YEAH, IT HAS A ROOF ON IT THAT BREAKS IT UP AT ATTACH ATTACHMENT FOUR.
I BELIEVE IT WAS REMOVED BECAUSE IT WOULD'VE, UM, YEAH, IT COULD GO INTO THE PROPERTY LINE.
YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE, HOW WAS IT THE FUR DRIVER THAT WOULD'VE BEEN OVER THE PROPERTY LINE, RIGHT? OR DID YOU IT IT WAS A FASCINATING CONVERSATION BETWEEN KEVIN AND I AND WE, WHEN WE, HE REALIZED THAT THAT WAS STICKING INTO THE, UH, THE GEORGIA PAP, NOT THE GEORGIA, THE DOMINION EASEMENT.
ACTUALLY IT'S SAN COOPER, THE SANTI COOPER EASEMENT.
AND HE SAID, YOU KNOW, IF YOU CAN GET GE YOU KNOW, GET DOMINION TO SIGN OFF ON THAT, THAT WILL APPROVE IT.
THERE'S NO WAY WE'RE GONNA GET SANTA COOPER TO SIGN OFF ON THAT.
WE TOOK IT OFF TO, TO BREAK IT UP AND THEN AS WE RESTUDIED THAT FACADE, WE LOOKED AT OTHER ELEMENTS IN THERE, BUT THEY ALL SEEMED LIKE HALF MEASURES.
AND SO WE JUST WENT WITH A A, A VERY SIMPLE FACADE.
UH, AGAIN, THERE'S VERY FEW PEOPLE THAT ARE REALLY LOOKING AT THAT FACADE.
BUT WE HAVE TO TREAT OFF FACADES EQUALLY.
I THINK IT'S, I THINK IT'S A, UH, I THINK IT'S A CLASSIC DESIGN FOR THAT FACADE.
I MEAN, CAN WE GO BACK TO THAT YEAH.
UM, YOU KNOW, I MEAN THAT'S AS GOOD AS, AS ANY, YOU KNOW, BUT YES, WE DID HAVE SOMETHING THAT WAS BREAKING UP THAT FACADE A LITTLE BIT WITH THAT, THAT LITTLE SHED.
BUT HONESTLY THE, THE, THE, THE LITTLE SHED ROOF FOR THE GARAGE, I'D USE THAT MORE FOR RAIN PROTECTION THAN I'D USE IT FOR AS AN ARCHITECTURAL ELEMENT.
I MEAN I, IT BREAKS IT UP QUITE A BIT AGAIN, THAT THOSE TWO SIDES ARE VERY VERTICAL.
I KNOW YOU'RE TRYING TO ADD A CHARLES ON THERE, BUT I MEAN THEY'RE VERTICAL AND THEY, THEY FEEL LIKE A TWO STORY GARAGE.
UM, YOU KNOW, THE, YOUR NEIGHBORS ALL HAVE HALF, YOU KNOW, ONE AND A HALF STORIES AND IT'S NOT NEARLY AS VERTICAL.
THAT HELPS IF IT'S, IT'S YEAH, SAME.
I I DO THINK THERE ARE TWO STORY HOUSES.
CARRIAGE HOUSE HAS GONE DOWN THAT LINE.
UH, AND FACT, I THINK WE, WE JUST LOOKED AT A PICTURE OF ONE, THEY'RE NOT ONE FOOT EIGHT INCHES OFF OF THE PROPERTY LINE.
SOME OF 'EM ARE FIVE FOOT, BUT LIKE HOUSES DON'T THINK THEY'RE, THEY'RE, THEY WEREN'T FACED WITH THE SAME GEOMETRY THEY WERE REPLACE WITH.
IT'S A DIFFICULT LOT, BUT IT'S A DIFFICULT LOT.
UM, I, I, LIKE I SAID, I, I HAVE REAL TOUGH TIMES WITH THAT.
THE GARAGE NOT BEING BROKEN UP.
I COULD PROBABLY LIVE WITH A HOUSE, EVEN THOUGH THE HOUSE IS VERY, VERY MASSIVE FOR THAT LOT.
BUT THE GARAGE, I THINK IT NEEDS TO BE RESTUDIED.
I THINK WHAT I'M HEARING FROM YOU IS THAT, YOU KNOW, EVEN IF IT WAS ONLY ONE FOOT OR TWO FEET BACK AND THEN THERE WAS A DORMER THAT WAS TALLER, YOU WOULD WANT TO SEE THE ROOF COME DOWN AND BE A HIGHER PITCH WITH A LOWER BEARING.
I MEAN OUT AT THAT EXTERIOR WALL.
YEAH, SOMETHING, I MEAN THE, THE PLATE'S TOO HIGH ON THAT.
THE, THE RIGHT SIDE WHERE THAT TRELLIS IS.
I THINK THAT'S WAY TOO HIGH TOO.
YOU KNOW, THE NEIGHBORS ARE, HAVE A LOWER PLATE AND THAT BREAKS IT UP.
IT'S NOT, DOESN'T FEEL, FEEL NEARLY AS HIGH AND THEN HAVE DORMERS IN IT.
UM, I JUST THINK THOSE, THOSE TWO SIDES ARE VERY, VERY VERTICAL AND THEN, AND A VERY VERTICAL HOUSE.
AND THERE HAS TO BE SOME ATTEMPT TO BRING THAT SCALE DOWN.
WHERE WERE WE JUST LOOKING? UM, NO, IT WAS THE, THE ONE THAT HAD THE PHOTOS.
THAT ONE? NO, WHAT WAS THE OTHER ONE? WHERE WAS, YEAH, I MEAN MY CONCERN WOULD BE THAT YOU, WHEN YOU LOOK DOWN THE ALLEY, YOU, IT'S THE POWER LINE EASEMENT YOU CAN SEE THROUGH LIKE THAT'S GONNA BE PRETTY VISIBLE ON BRUIN AND WE'RE JUST GETTING MORE KIND IMPROVEMENTS IN THE COUNTY ALONG THAT ROAD CORRIDOR WHERE THEY'RE ADDING IN SIDEWALKS AND THINGS THAT ARE JUST GONNA KIND THERE.
UH, SO I WOULD, I MEAN I WOULD SUPPORT YOUR THOUGHTS ON YEAH, MAYBE RESTUDYING THE SCALE OF THAT.
I MEAN THIS HOUSE WE HAD, WE HAD MANY CONVERSATIONS ABOUT THIS GARAGE COMING THROUGH THAT IT WAS TOO BIG AND THEY HAD TO TREAT IT.
I MEAN THAT, THAT WAS VERY VERTICAL.
WE MADE THEM PUT THEIR ROOF ON THERE.
I MEAN THAT, IN MY MIND IT'S, IT'S STILL, THIS HOUSE IS VERY VERTICAL TOO.
UM, I UNDERSTAND IT'S YOUR NEIGHBOR, BUT I MEAN THIS IS FOR THE BACK AND THEY WERE ABLE TO PUT A ROOF ON IT 'CAUSE THEY WEREN'T RIGHT ON THERE.
[00:50:01]
SO, SO WHAT I'M HEARING, TIM, IS YOU LIKE THE ROOF.I MEAN I JUST THINK IT NEEDS TO BE BROKEN UP SOMEHOW OR YEAH, I MEAN YOU CAN LOWER THE PLATE.
YOU KNOW, EXPRESS THE MIDDLE OF THE GARAGES DORMERS AND GET SOME HEIGHT OUT OF IT THAT WAY.
BUT I, I WOULD SAY OUR PLATE WILL BE PROBABLY LOWER THAN THIS ONE.
AGAIN, HAVE ROOF TO BREAK IT UP.
SO THERE IS, IT'S NOT VERTICAL 'CAUSE IT DOES HAVE A ROOF TO BREAK IT UP.
IT ROOF'S NOT ALWAYS THE BEST ELEMENT.
AND AGAIN, I I'M NOT SURE THEY COMPLETELY ACCOMPLISH THIS SUCCESSFULLY, BUT THEY AT LEAST HAVE SOME SOMETHING BREAKING UP THAT MASS SO IT'S NOT JUST STRAIGHT UP.
WE CAN GO BACK TO THAT REVISION THAT WE HAD.
I SURE KNOW THAT I HAVE IT IN THIS UH, PACKAGE 'CAUSE I CHANGED IT OR JUST EXPLAIN.
SO LIKE THAT WAS THE, THAT WAS THE PREVIOUS ONE AND IT'S, IT'S REALLY, THAT'S THE EXACT SAME HEIGHT.
I MEAN IT FEELS LESS VERTICAL.
SO MUCH BETTER THAN LIKE THAT MUCH.
I MEAN I THINK IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE THIS OVER.
I MEAN YOU CAN EXPLORE IT MAKING THE ROOF PITCH TALLER AND BRING THE PLATE DOWN, UM, AND GETTING SOME DORMERS IN THERE.
I MEAN THOSE TWO SIDES ARE JUST SO VERTICAL AND THEY'RE GONNA BE VISIBLE.
'CAUSE THAT ROAD IS, IT'S GONNA BE VISIBLE FROM, FROM UH, BRUIN ROAD.
SO, SO I, I CAN SAY THAT WE'RE PROBABLY WITHIN SIX TO EIGHT INCHES OF BEING ABLE TO DO THAT IN OUR CURRENT FOOTPRINT.
SO IF THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE, YOU FEEL THAT WE COULD WORK WITH STAFF ON, 'CAUSE THIS WAS IN OUR CONCEPTUAL PACKAGE.
THAT WAS WHAT WE, WE APPROVED AT THE CONCEPTUAL LEVEL.
IF WE JUST NEEDED TO PULL THAT BACK JUST ENOUGH SO WE COULD GET THAT DESIGN BACK, THERE'S NOTHING REALLY, UM, ARE YOU PULLING IT BACK? YOU HAVE TO PULL IT BACK.
I MEAN THAT, THAT'S A THREE FOOT OVERHANG, IS IT NOT? WELL WE'RE WE'RE ONE FOOT SIX OFF THE PROPERTY LINE.
IT WASN'T, IT WASN'T ABOUT THE SETBACK.
'CAUSE IT'S, ARE YOU ALLOWED TO PUT THE ROOF RIGHT UP TO THE PROPERTY LINE? WHAT'S THAT? ARE YOU SAYING YOU'RE ABLE TO PUT THE ROOF UP TO THE PROPERTY LINE? I THINK SO, YES.
BECAUSE IT WAS, IT WAS, IT WASN'T ABOUT THE SETBACK.
IT WAS ABOUT THE, THE FACT THAT WE WERE IN THE UTILITY EASEMENT AND THAT'S WHERE KEVIN SAID, HEY GO GET SANTA COOPER'S APPROVAL AND WE'RE COOL WITH IT.
AND I'M LIKE, YOU KNOW, WE'RE IN 24 HOURS, 24 HOURS.
SO I'M ON, I'M WITH TIM ON IT.
I MEAN THE, THAT IS GONNA BE SEEN THINKING THROUGH NOW WHAT THE PLANS ARE NOW GONNA BE FOR BURNT CHURCH WITH PATHS AND THANK GOODNESS THEY'RE NOT TAKING ANYONE'S LAND LIKE THEY WERE GOING TO.
UM, I THINK YOU CAN, I THINK YOU CAN SHRINK THAT A LITTLE.
I MEAN IT'S A NICE, I'VE I'VE BEEN IN MOST OF THOSE STUDIO.
I'VE BEEN IN PROBABLY ALL OF THOSE GARAGE APARTMENTS,
SO I THINK YOU CAN WI WIGGLE AROUND THAT AND NOT MAKE IT LOOK LIKE A FULL FLEDGE ONE BEDROOM APARTMENT AND MAKE IT WORK.
THE CAR, THE CAR IS NICE, BUT I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE STEPS ARE.
I, I DON'T KNOW THAT YOU CAN GO BACK TO STAFF.
I THINK YOU'D EITHER COME BACK HERE HPRC.
UM, UNLESS WE, YEAH, I MEAN I THINK IF AS WE KEEP GOING, I THOUGHT WE WERE A LITTLE BIT LIGHT ON A LOT OF LIKE, THERE ARE A LOT OF DETAILS THAT ARE DRAWN AT QUARTER AND THEY'RE NOT SUPER DESCRIPTIVE.
AND I WAS PROBABLY LEANING TOWARDS THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE WOULDN'T NECESSARILY GET TO A APPROVAL MOTION ON AFTER FURTHER DISCUSSION.
SO I THINK THERE'S PROBABLY OPPORTUNITY ANYWAY TO REVISIT.
WE'RE MISSING A WALL SECTIONS REVISIT.
UM, IT'S, YEAH, THERE'S NOT, THERE'S A LOT OF INFORMATION THAT WE'RE, WE'RE MISSING.
SO, UM, BUT I MEAN IF, IF WE WANT TO OFFER SOME COMMENTS, I DO HAVE SOME ON DETAILING QUESTION.
WE FEEL LIKE WE'VE TALKED ABOUT ENOUGH ABOUT THE MASS AND SCALE.
I MEAN, ARE YOU GUYS IN AGREEMENT? I MEAN WE'RE IN AGREEMENT THAT THE GARAGE NEEDS TO BE I WOULD AGREE WITH THAT.
UM, I JUST HAVE A COUPLE QUESTIONS ON DETAILING.
CAN WE GO, SO, SO THE, TALK TO ME ABOUT THE BRICK.
WHAT'S THE INTENTION ON IT? I SAW A DETAIL ON THERE.
IT LOOKS LIKE THE BRICK IS, IS IT IT'S JUST A HALF BRICK THAT'S GOING ON THERE AND IT'S NOT GOING INTO THE GRADE, SO IT'S GONNA BE FLOATING OFF THE NO, NO, IT'S DEFINITELY GOING INTO THE GRADE BECAUSE I SAW A DETAIL ON THERE THAT HAD JUST A BRICK THAT WAS MORTAR ON THERE AND HAD TO DRIP ABOVE GRADE.
SO YOU GO TO THE SECTIONS ON THAT.
SO YOU WOULD INCLUDE OKAY, RIGHT THERE.
SO, UM, SO ONE OF THE REASONS THAT WE USE, USE THE THIN BRICK ON THE EXTERIOR UHHUH
SO WE DON'T GET THAT THAT THAT UH, SORT OF THE BIG
[00:55:01]
JUMP OUT AT THE BOTTOM WHERE WITHOUT HAVING TO GO THROUGH, HAVING TO GO THROUGH THE GYMNASTICS, UH, BUILDING THAT YOU'RE VERY FAMILIAR WITH HAS THAT SAME DETAIL ON IT.I MEAN, BUT THAT'S A TRADITIONAL DETAIL TO HAVE A BRICK WITH A BRICK LEDGE AND HAVE A, A TRADITIONAL WATER TABLE.
UM, BUT I'VE ALSO SEEN, I DON'T LIKE IT FLOATING OFF OF GRADE.
I DON'T KNOW IF THAT IS A CORRECT DETAIL FOR, I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT'S REALLY THE TRUE INTENT OF THAT, BUT YEAH, I I THINK THAT THERE, MY CONCERN WOULD BE THAT THE BUILDING DEPARTMENT MAKES YOU, BECAUSE IT'S IN THE BUILDING CODE THAT, YOU KNOW, ADHERED MASONRY, THINGS LIKE THAT SHOULD BE, SHOULD BE RAISED TWO INCHES ABOVE, YOU KNOW, SIX INCHES ABOVE GRADE OR TWO.
I THINK THERE'D BE A CEILING JOINT THERE, HONESTLY.
UH, IT WOULD BE HELD UP AND THERE WOULD BE A LITTLE SEAL JOINT IN THERE.
IT'S NOT THAT I WANT TO EXPOSE THE CONCRETE IN THERE, BUT I THINK IF YOU'RE, IF YOU'RE THE, THE BROADER QUESTION IS SHOULD IT BE A FULL BRICK, WE CAN DEFINITELY EXPLORE THAT.
UM, I JUST, YOU KNOW, WORKING, WORKING IN DIFFERENT RESIDENTIAL STYLES, I'VE SEEN THAT THAT SLAB CANTILEVER OVER AND THE BRICK COME UP SO THAT WE CAN KEEP THE WALL.
I MEAN EXPLICITLY IN LINE AND I DON'T LIKE THAT DETAIL VERY MUCH.
THIS IS KIND OF A CULTURE STONE DETAIL.
I, I MEAN IF WE'RE GONNA DO IT, I, I THINK IT NEEDS TO BE FULL BRICK AND IT NEEDS TO BE OKAY.
IT NEEDS TO BE IN THE GROUND ON A BRICK LEDGE SO IT GOES DOWN.
SO I, I JUST, IT DOESN'T WANNA LOOK LIKE CULTURE STONE, WHICH THIS IS KIND OF WHAT IT REMINDED ME OF.
AND THEN AT THAT POINT YOU'D HAVE TO LOOK AT THE WATER TABLE.
WOULD THAT CHANGE TO A BRICK THAT IS NOT SOLDIER ANYMORE? IT'S ROW LOCK.
WHICH IS KIND OF WHAT YOUR PORCH IS.
THE PORCH DETAIL, AGAIN, WE'RE LACKING IN DETAILS, BUT THAT'S ANOTHER QUESTION.
THE PORCH, YOUR DETAIL LOOKED LIKE IT WAS A BRICK FACE AND CONCRETE.
AND THEN THE PLANT HAD HERRINGBONE BRICK.
WHAT IS THE INTENT THERE? THE PLANT HAS IT DRAWN AS A HERONE.
I CAN'T, AND I THINK WE COULD PULL UP YOUR PLAN SET IF THAT IS EASIER.
I WAS LOOKING AT THE PORCH THOUGH, BUT YEAH.
I MEAN, ACTUALLY I'VE GOT THIS SET RIGHT HERE IN MY HAND.
I THINK THAT PORCH SECTION WAS RIGHT HERE.
YEAH, I THINK IT, I THINK THE WHOLE POINT OF IT WAS TO, WAS IT WAS A SOLDIER ALL THE WAY AROUND THE HOUSE WAS MY, MY UNDERSTANDING.
YOU HAVE A SOLDIER AT THE THING THAT, AND THEN I THINK THAT'S A STEP THOUGH.
BUT YOUR, YOUR PORCH IS SHOWING CONCRETE FOR THE PORCH AND THEN THE PLAN SHOW A BRICK.
IT WAS INTENDED TO BE A SOLDIER PORCH BRICK THAT GOES, THAT, THAT WENT.
AND THE CON, THAT PORCH IS GONNA BE CONCRETE.
UH, OR IS IT GONNA BE HEARING BONE BREAK? UH, I'M PRETTY SURE L YOU MORE? PRETTY SURE IT SHOULD BE BRICK.
IS IT, WAS IT A BRICK? WHAT WERE WE DOING, JOHN? DO YOU REMEMBER? BRICK.
HOW, HOW DOES THE SOLDIER COURSE TRANSITION TO THE ROW LOCK AT THE STAIRS? LIKE THAT WOULD BE PRETTY, A BROAD, LIKE THE PORCH NEEDS.
WELL, I THINK THAT STICKS OUT A LITTLE PROUD OF IT.
SO, YEAH, I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW THAT I WANT TO KEEP THAT SOLDIER GOING ALL THE WAY DOWN THAT LINE.
WE COULD, I MEAN, I WAS JUST TRYING TO KEEP THE STAIRS, YOU KNOW, STEPPING UP WITH THE SAME, SAME BASIC DETAIL.
I WOULD, I WOULD NOT LIKE TO SEE THE, YOU KNOW, BRICK WHATEVER THE BRICK BORDER IS, TRANSITION IN THE MIDDLE OF THE LENGTH OF THE PORCH.
I THINK THAT'S NOT SUCCESSFUL.
I THINK YOU'RE PROBABLY BETTER, BEST OFF WITH THE ROAD LOCK.
UM, BUT IF YOU PREFER TO SEE THE SOLDIER COURSE, YOU JUST HAVE TO PROBABLY, I WOULD GUESS, MAKE YOUR STAIRS DEEP ENOUGH TO WHERE YOU DON'T NEED THE NOSING TO MEET THE CODE.
UM, BUT WE WOULD WANNA SEE THAT RESOLVED IN DETAIL.
THE OTHER OPTION WE HAVE WOULD BE TO JUST STOP THE SOLDIER COURSE AT THE PORCH AND GO THROUGH THE LOCKER AROUND THE PORCH.
EITHER ONE IS, AS LONG AS IT'S RESOLVED, I, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T REALLY SEE A LOT OF SOLDIER COURSE.
I KNOW YOU GUYS HAVE IN BLUFFTON, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'VE PICKED THAT UP FROM SAVANNAH.
MAYBE
I MEAN, YOU CAN DO A SOLDIER UNDERNEATH THE ROLL LOCK IF YOU WANTED TO HAVE THAT STEP AGAIN, BUT, WELL, THAT'S, THAT'S REAL BRICK.
I THINK THAT IT'S, YOU'RE NOT GONNA BE ABLE TO DO THAT.
I THINK IT'S GONNA HAVE TO CHANGE TO THE ROLL LOCK WATER TABLE.
ARE WE REDESIGNING THIS WHILE WE'RE SITTING HERE? I MEAN, WELL, USUALLY THIS WILL WOULD BE, USUALLY THIS WILL BE MORE OF LIKE AN HPRC STEP.
[01:00:01]
WAS, UM, KIND, WE SORT OF EXPECTED THAT THE HOUSE WAS TOO BIG JUST ON THE, THE KINDA THE DEVELOPMENT PLAN SIDE.SO WITH THAT BEING SAID, SHOULD THIS BE TABLED AND BE SENT BACK TO HPRC VERSUS YOU ALL SITTING HERE TRYING TO REDESIGN IT DURING THIS MEETING, I DON'T THINK THAT THIS IS THE PLACE THAT WE SHOULD BE REDESIGNING.
WELL I WAS GONNA, I WAS GONNA LET Y'ALL FINISH.
AND I WAS LOOKING UP WHAT A LOT OF THIS MEANS.
UM, AND I'VE STARTED FEELING LIKE IT NEEDS TO BE AT HPRC TO DO IT.
I MEAN, AND I UNDERSTAND THAT SHOULD BE ALL, THAT BOTH ARE IN THAT FIELD, BUT ALL WHEN IT'S PRESENTED.
I FEEL LIKE WE MISSED THAT HPRC STEP WE DID.
AND I THINK A LOT OF THIS WOULD'VE COME UP IN THAT.
WE WOULD'VE REVIEWED THIS HBRC AND GET INTO THESE DETAILS MORE.
SO, SO MOVING, MOVING FORWARD.
UM, FIRST OFF, I'D LIKE TO SAY THE ENTIRE CONVERSATION THAT Y'ALL JUST HAD SO OVER MY HEAD, BUT I KNOW THE ANSWERS WE'RE SAYING THAT MAKES TWO OF US
BUT, UM, IT, IT, I THINK FOR THE BENEFIT OF THE APPLICANT AND THE, THE ARCHITECT PROPERTY OWNERS, EVERYBODY, TO MAKE SURE, BECAUSE I KNOW THIS HAS BEEN A LONG TIME.
THEY'VE BEEN WAITING A LONG TIME TRYING TO GET THROUGH THIS PROCESS.
BUT ALSO, I KNOW IT NEEDS TO GO THROUGH HPRC.
IT SOUNDS LIKE, UM, THERE ARE SOME CRITERIA THAT Y'ALL WILL HAVE TO LOOK AT IF AND WHEN YOU APPROVE THIS, IF YOU WANT TO DO AN APPROVAL WITH CONDITIONS TONIGHT, INCLUDING HPRC REVIEW FOR THE THINGS THAT YOU'RE POINTING OUT OR WHETHER YOU WANTED TO COME BACK BEFORE THIS BOARD, UM, AT A LATER DATE.
I THINK I'M JUST TRYING TO GET A LITTLE BIT OF, BEAR, A LITTLE BIT BETTER OF AN UNDERSTANDING ON HOW TO POSITION THIS MOVING FORWARD.
SO IS IT GOING TO BE TABLED OR ARE WE GOING TO POTENTIALLY APPROVE WITH CONDITIONS WITH ONE OF THOSE CONDITIONS BE HPRC REVIEW WITH, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THE THINGS THAT Y'ALL POINTED OUT.
SO, UM, IF Y'ALL WANT TO GO, I MEAN THERE'S MORE CRITERIA OTHER THAN JUST MASSING AND SCALE, MAKING SURE THAT IT WORKS WITH ALL OF THAT SO THAT THE APPLICANT AND THE PROPERTY OWNER WILL KNOW WHAT CHANGES, IF ANY, THEY MAY NEED TO, TO DO.
SO WE CAN, AGAIN, TRY TO MOVE THIS THROUGH AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE, BUT ALSO GET THE CHANGES THAT Y'ALL THINK ARE NECESSARY.
I, DOES THAT MAKE, DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? THAT TOTALLY MAKES SENSE.
AND I RELY ON THE ARCHITECTS TO UNDERSTAND THE WATERBOARDING BOARDING AND THE TYPE OF THE BRICK AND HOW IT FITS IN WITH BLUFFTON, NOT SAVANNAH OR BEAUFORT.
THIS IS, THESE ARE OUR, IT'S OUR UDO WE LOVE.
SO IT WAS, AND YOU HAVEN'T EVEN STARTED ON YOUR LIST.
SO I DO FEEL THIS WAS EARLY COMING HERE WITH SO MUCH THAT Y'ALL, EVEN IN OUR CRITERIA, I THINK WE MADE A MAJOR MILESTONE ON THE GARAGE.
I, I, I'M TRYING TO BE LESS TROUBLED ON THE MASS OF THE HOUSE, BUT I DO AGREE THAT GARAGE IS ALMOST MORE OF A FOCAL POINT IN YEARS TO COME THAN THE HOUSE.
AND I'M JUST SO THANKFUL THIS IS HOPEFULLY THE LAST LOT WE HAVE TO SEE IN TABBY ROADS.
BUT I DO THINK Y'ALL HAVE SO MUCH TO GO OVER.
IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE AT HPRC.
WE'VE APPROVED IT THROUGH HPRC IF WE ARE FINE AS A GROUP MM-HMM
WITH THE GENERAL AND IT, AND IT WILL SPEED IT UP A LOT FASTER THAN TABLING IT, I THINK.
IS THAT WHAT I, I'M KIND OF REITERATING WHAT YOU SAID.
I MEAN, I THINK FOR ME, LIKE THE, THERE'S ENOUGH MOVING PARTS INTO THE GARAGE ITSELF THAT, UH, IT WOULD BE HARD FOR ME TO WANT TO SUPPORT A, UM, LIKE APPROVE AND THEN HAVE IT COME TO HBRC AND WE'RE KIND OF REVIEWING IT AND NOBODY ELSE GETS TO SEE IT AGAIN.
YEAH, I AGREE WITH THAT KIND OF A STEP.
UM, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S A WAY FOR, YOU KNOW, HPRC MEMBERS TO LIKE, WE'VE GOT COMMENTS, I'VE GOT COMMENTS WRITTEN OUT.
IF WE COULD PROVIDE THAT QUICKLY AND YOU KNOW, GET THAT TO THEM SO THAT THEY CAN ADDRESS IT AS, AS COMMENTS.
MAYBE WE DON'T EVEN NEED AN HBRC MEETING OR WE CAN GET THEM ON THE NEXT AGENDA THAT'S AVAILABLE.
AGENDA FOR NEXT WEEK HAS ALREADY GONE OUT.
UM, BUT WE COULD DO THE OCTOBER 19TH MEETING IF I CAN.
YEAH, IF WE COULD, WE COULD DO THE OCTOBER 19TH MEETING THAT SPEEDS IT UP.
'CAUSE THE AGENDA AGAIN HAS ALREADY GONE IN.
YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT HPRC? HPRC.
JOE, ARE YOU SAYING YOU'D JUST WANT TO GIVE COMMENTS LIKE HPRC AND THEN HAVE THEM COME
[01:05:01]
BACK TO HPC? YEAH.THAT WOULD BE THE OTHER WAY TO DO IT.
I MEAN THERE'S A LITTLE BIT, THEY'VE GOTTA BE ABLE TO INTERPRET WHAT WE'RE SAYING.
AND WE'RE NOT GONNA HAVE THE CHANCE TO HAVE A CONVERSATION ABOUT IT.
BUT IF YOU GUYS ARE COMFORTABLE WITH THAT, THEN I WOULD THINK THAT THAT SAVES YOU TWO WEEKS AND GETS YOU PROBABLY ON AN EARLIER AGENDA FOR THIS.
I WILL SAY ONE THING PLANNING COMMISSION HAS DONE IN THE PAST IS PICK ONE OR TWO COMMISSIONERS TO POTENTIALLY MEET WITH THE APPLICANTS, UM, LIKE HERE AT TOWN HALL, UM, TO GO OVER WHAT OTHER IMPROVEMENTS THEY HAVE MADE BEFORE GOING LIKE, INSTEAD OF GOING TO HPRC OR BEFORE COMING BACK TO HPC.
SO IF THAT'S SOMETHING YOU GUYS ARE COMFORTABLE WITH, I KNOW THAT'S BEEN DONE IN THE PAST AS WELL.
AND IF IT'S JUST TWO PEOPLE, THEN IT'S NOT A FORMAL CORRECT.
MORE OF A MEETING, NOT AN AGENDA ITEM.
NO, IT'S JUST SOMETHING WE WOULD COORDINATE WITH STAFF AND HAVE Y'ALL COME IN WITH THE APPLICANTS AS WELL.
I MEAN, I'D BE COMFORTABLE WITH THAT.
WE DON'T WANT TO, I THINK IT SHOULD BE ALL THE, I MEAN I'M COMFORTABLE ON THE AGREEMENT THAT WE DID ON THE GARAGE, BUT I THINK THESE ARCHITECTURAL, UM, NEEDS FROM WHAT WE REQUIRE, I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S US OF, OF THE TWO.
THE REALTORS CAN'T HANDLE THAT ONE.
WE COULD LEARN IT, BUT I DON'T WANT IT TO BE A LEARNING EXPERIENCE.
BECAUSE Y'ALL IT LOT Y'ALL GO TO THE FLOOR PLANS AND THE TYPE AND THE LOOK AND I'M LEARNING IT, BUT I THINK Y'ALL HAVE A, I TRUST Y'ALL ON THAT.
CARLI CAN COME SUE, BUT SO WOULD HAVE TO BE JUST TWO HAS ME TWO, NO, TWO.
BECAUSE MORE THAN THAT THERE'S A QUO.
SO I MEAN, I'D BE FINE IF IT WAS JOE AND MYSELF DOING THAT.
AND WE WOULD STILL SEE IT AT HPC.
MR. CHAIRMAN, WE HAVE A QUESTION FROM THE PROPERTY OWNER.
UH, MR. CHAIRMAN JOHN GEHRING, UH, PROPERTY OWNER HERE ALONG WITH MY WIFE ASHLEY GEHRING.
I JUST WANTED TO ASK THE QUESTION BASED ON ALL THE COMMENTS.
THERE WAS A LOT OF BACK AND FORTH WITH THE SCALING AND THE VERTICAL.
UM, AND THERE WAS OBVIOUSLY A LOT OF STUDIES AND A LOT OF COMPARISONS WITH THE ADJACENT PROPERTY THAT'S ALREADY BEEN APPROVED BASED ON HOW VERTICAL IT IS.
UM, THE FOOTPRINT COMMENT CAME UP EARLIER AS WELL.
THAT WAS A HOT TOPIC THAT WAS DISCUSSED A LOT ABOUT THE HOUSE BEING BIGGER THAN THE LOT.
THERE WAS A LOT OF TALK ABOUT JUST SQUARE FOOTAGE OF THE FOOTPRINT THAN ACTUALLY SQUARE FOOTAGE OF THE TOTAL HOME.
UM, THROUGH, WE GOT THROUGH THAT WITH THE, WITH THE VARIANCE.
UM, AND THEN ALSO IT WAS VERY WELL NOTICED.
WE WENT AN EXTRA, YOU KNOW, ADDED UM, STAKES, WHICH OBVIOUSLY THEY'RE A HUNDRED DOLLARS A STAKE, GOT EVERY PROPERTY CORNER ADDED, EVERYTHING TO THAT.
AND YOU CAN ACTUALLY SEE THE CURB APPEAL AND ACTUALLY SEE THAT THAT ACTUAL, OUR LOT ACTUALLY DOES HAVE A GOOD CURB APPEAL AND DOES SHOW MORE GREEN SPACE THAN YOU NORMALLY SEE.
LIKE THE ADJACENT HOUSE THAT IS LITERALLY JUST ABIDING BY THE SIDE SETBACKS AND THE REAR SETBACK.
IT GOES ALL THE WAY BACK, UH, EVEN TO THE FACT WHERE WE GOT AT STAKE, WHICH THESE STAKES HAVE BEEN REMOVED NOW, I THINK THEY'RE ABOUT TO SELL IT.
BUT THE, THE ACTUAL MECHANICAL YARD IS ACTUALLY ON OUR PROPERTY LINE.
SO IT'S ACTUALLY TAKING UP THAT SPACE.
SO, UM, WE'VE WORKED A LOT ON THIS AND THE FOOTPRINT THING IS A LITTLE DISHEARTENING 'CAUSE WE GOT THAT VARIANCE APPROVAL, WHICH WAS FINE TO START THE NEXT STEPS WITH THE TOWN PROBABLY FOUR AND A HALF YEARS AGO.
AND WE'VE BEEN WORKING VERY TEDIOUS ON THIS AND THERE'S BEEN A LOT OF REPETITION.
SO WITH ALL THAT BEING SAID, I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND.
THERE WAS A LOT OF BACK AND FORTH ABOUT THE SIZE AND THE VERTICAL.
I WANNA MAKE SURE I AGREE WITH EXACTLY WHAT YOU SAID.
I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE MOVING FORWARD THAT THE FIELD GOAL POST ISN'T GONNA KEEP MOVING BASED ON SIZE AND VIEW AND VERTICAL.
I'M HOPING THAT WHAT Y'ALL ARE SAYING NOW, AND I'M, I'M JUST WANNA MAKE SURE I'M CLEAR SO MY WIFE CAN UNDERSTAND.
Y'ALL DON'T HAVE TO GO HOME WITH HER AND HEAR SHE'S VERY, SHE HAS TO GO HOME WITH YOU.
WE TOOK SIX INCHES OFF THE TOP.
SHE DOESN'T WANNA GO HOME WITH YOU AND HERE IT YEAH.
WELL LET'S NOT PUT HER ON THE, UNDER THE BUS.
WE'VE INVESTED A LOT AND THERE'S, WE WE'RE GETTING TO THE POINT WHERE WE, WE WANT THIS TO BE GOOD NEWS AND CELEBRATION ON THIS.
BUT, UM, WITH THAT BEING SAID, I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE TO CONFIRM THAT THROUGH HISTORIC PRESERVATION, THAT THE ACTUAL HYPE, EVERYTHING THAT WE HAVE TO GET APPROVED THROUGH STAFF IS ANCHORED MINUS YOUR COMMENTS ABOUT THE GARAGE.
VERTICAL AND JUST BREAKING THAT HALF AND MAYBE LOWERING THE LOOP ROOF OR WHATEVER FOR THE GINESS.
AND IF, IF WE CAN EVEN ADD STREET VIEW IMAGES, WE CAN
[01:10:01]
DO THAT BECAUSE THERE IS A TREE LINE THAT EXTENDS ALONG THAT EASEMENT.SO YES, WALKER'S WILL SEE IT, BUT CARS TRAVELING BY THERE.
THAT THAT, THAT'S A, THAT'S A SHORT GLIMPSE AND WE WILL BEAUTIFY IT WITH PLANTINGS.
I MEAN IT, WE'LL MAKE IT THE BEST WE CAN.
UM, BUT I'M, I'M JUST HOPING THAT, YOU KNOW, I DON'T BELIEVE TABLING IT'S THE BEST THING, BUT JUST COMING OUTTA HERE WITH AN UNDERSTANDING THAT YES, WE HAVE TO GO BACK TO THAT REVIEW WHERE WE GOT STUMPED WITH THE SQUARE FOOTAGE CONVERSATION TO JUST ACTUALLY GO THROUGH ALL THE DETAILS, WHICH IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING WITH THE HISTORIC REVIEW BOARD TO MAKE SURE OUR HOUSE DOESN'T TARNISH THE REPUTATION AND OTHER PEOPLE ARE WALKING BY SAYING, HEY, THAT DOESN'T LOOK LOW COUNTRY.
SO I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT THAT'S WHAT I'M HEARING.
SHE NOW IS HEARING THAT AND WE KNOW WHERE THE FIELD GOAL POST IS, SO WE CAN HOPEFULLY TAKE IT TO THAT BREAK.
WELL, I'LL TELL YOU, MASS AND SCALE IS PART OF IT.
MASS AND SCALE IS PART OF OUR CODE.
AND, AND, AND THAT IS A REAL THING.
BUT I THINK YOU HAVE HEARD THE FOUR OF US.
YOU KNOW, AGREE TO THE BEST WE CAN TO RESOLVE YOUR STRESS.
'CAUSE I KNOW IT IS STRESSFUL.
UM, I LIVE IN THIS DISTRICT TOO.
THE, BUT THAT GARAGE I THINK WE ALL AGREE IS WRONG.
AND SO YOU'VE THOUGHT ABOUT PUSHING IT BACK.
I MEAN, I, I DON'T THINK I'M GONNA CHANGE MY MIND.
WE MIGHT HAVE TWO MORE MEMBERS HERE.
UM, ONE, TWO, THERE'S FOUR, THERE'S FOUR OR THREE MORE MEMBERS.
MIGHT HAVE THREE MORE MEMBERS HERE.
BUT I THINK YOU CAN GET A FEEL FROM US.
WHAT WE'RE SAYING, AND I'M JUST SPEAKING FOR ME.
I DON'T KNOW, MAYBE OTHER PEOPLE HAVE OTHER THOUGHTS, BUT SO, AND I, I'M, I'M LIKE YOU, WHEN I HEAR THE TALKING ABOUT THE STEPS AND THE FLASHING, WHATEVER.
ARE WE SAYING THE, THE HEIGHT OR WE SAYING WHAT WE GOT APPROVED PER OUR VARIANCE? ARE WE TALKING ABOUT HOW CLOSE IT IS AT, AT THIS DEAD END? OR ARE WE TALKING ABOUT JUST THE HEIGHT AND THE VERTICAL FACE? I MEAN, IT'S THE VERTICAL.
IT DOESN'T NECESSARILY, WE'RE NOT TELLING YOU HAVE TO MOVE IT BACK.
WE TELL YOU WE'RE TELLING, YOU HAVE TO RELIEVE THAT VERTICAL MASS SOMEHOW.
ONE SOLUTION IS MOVING THE BACK AND PUTTING THAT ROOF ON THERE.
THE OTHER SOLUTION MAY BE LOWERING THAT PLATE AND MAKING A HIGHER PLATE AND DO DORM OR SOMETHING TO BREAK THAT UP.
I MEAN, THERE'S DIFFERENT SOLUTIONS, BUT, SO WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THE VERTICAL HEIGHT, IT'S THE FACT THAT IT'S COMING TO A 0.2 STORY.
IT'S A TWO STORY VERTICAL ELEMENT, WHICH IS THE, YOU LOOK AT THE HEIGHT AT THE CORNERS MORE THAN NECESSARILY THE HEIGHT.
AND THE CENTER IS REALLY, SO WE'VE HAD CONVERSATIONS IN DESIGN THAT ACTUALLY GETS RID OF THE WINDOWS ON THE SIDE.
IF YOU LOWER THAT, SO THEN GETTING RID OF THE WINDOWS ON THE SIDE BASED ON THE PITCH OF THE ROOF, THEN WE DON'T HAVE THE APPEAL THAT WE NEED GOING DOWN.
SO YOU CAN RUIN ROAD, YOU CAN RELIEVE THAT WITH DORMERS.
SO YOU HAVE A ROOF THAT'S HIGHER PITCH, AND THEN YOU HAVE A DORMER UP HERE.
SO THAT WALL GOES UP AND YOU HAVE A WINDOW IN THAT WALL.
SO IT, IT'S, IF YOU LOOK AT THOSE ELEVATIONS, THERE'S, THERE'S DORMERS ON THAT.
UM, IT'S THE SAME THING AS YOUR THIRD FLOOR.
YOU KNOW, YOU WINDOWS IN THERE, BUT YOU HAVE A POPUP AND YOUR, YOUR WINDOWS ARE COMING OUT THERE.
THAT'S KIND OF WHAT WE'RE ASKING YOU.
I GOT, THAT'S, THAT'S ONE WAY OF LOOSEN THAT THERE SOLVING THAT.
AND, AND IF I MAY JUST TO HELP KIND OF GUIDE THIS CONVERSATION, BECAUSE I DO THINK WHAT, WHAT'S BEING DONE HERE IS IMPORTANT.
OBVIOUSLY THE PROPERTY OWNER WANTS TO MAKE SURE THIS IS, YOU KNOW, NOT LIKE LUCY AND CHARLIE BROWN WITH THE FOOTBALL, WHERE THE NEXT TIME THEY COME UP, IT'S A NEW ISSUE.
IF IT'S A NEW ISSUE, IT'S A NEW ISSUE.
UM, SO IT'S IMPORTANT THAT WE KIND OF DI UH, GIVE A, SOME SORT OF COMFORT LEVEL THAT THERE'S CONFIDENCE IN THE DECISIONS THAT ARE BEING MADE HERE TONIGHT, ALTHOUGH THEY ARE NOT BEING FORMALLY MADE TONIGHT.
AND IN FURTHERANCE INTO THAT, IF I MAY KIND OF GO THROUGH SOME OF THE ISSUES THAT YOU HAVE TO GO THROUGH WHEN YOU'RE, UH, UH, YOU KNOW, THERE'S FOUR DETERMINATIONS THAT YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO MAKE AS A BODY.
THERE ARE FOUR OF Y'ALL HERE, THERE IS A QUORUM, ALTHOUGH WE DON'T, WE DON'T NEED TO MAKE THOSE APPROVALS TONIGHT.
I THINK HAVING SOME COMFORT LEVEL WITH THOSE, SUCH AS THE SLIDING DOOR, THE MATERIALS, THAT WAY THEY CAN BE ADDRESSED IN THESE NEXT UPCOMING MEETINGS.
UM, AND THEN I WILL TOUCH ON THE OTHER ISSUES, I THINK, WHICH ARE THE MAIN ONES THAT, THAT WE'RE, WE'RE CONCERNED ABOUT.
BUT, UH, THERE ARE FOUR DETERMINATIONS BY THE HBC.
THERE'S THE USE OF FIBER, FIBER, CEMENT, SIDING.
UH, SO FIBER CEMENTITIOUS, UH, MATERIAL IS SIMILAR TO HARDY, WHICH IS AN ALLOWED MATERIAL.
AND I'M ASSUMING THAT'S KIND OF THE PRODUCT THAT YOU'RE IT THE COLUMNS.
WHICH WE'RE NOT, WE'RE NOT TAKING AN EIGHT BY EIGHT INTO THE FIBER.
YOU KNOW, I HAD TO GO LOOK AT THE, AND SO I, I CEMENT IT'S CEMENT FIBER IS WHAT THE UDO SAYS.
IS THAT WHAT WE'RE RUNNING INTO CHARLOTTE? CHARLOTTE? IS THAT WHERE WE'RE RUNNING INTO AN ISSUE? IS THE PERMIT MATERIAL
[01:15:01]
CEMENT FIBER SIDING FOR THE, UH, FRONT PORCH? OR IS THAT, THAT'S A, JUST BECAUSE THAT'S BUILDING WALLS AND THE COLUMNS ARE SEPARATE.THE THE, UM, YEAH, THE COLUMNS ARE SEPARATE.
AND YOU GUYS ARE THINKING PERMA CAST, WHICH WOULD MAKE THAT KIND OF A MADE POINT.
UH, THE BALIST ARE DESIGN FOR THE RAILING PROPOSED TO THE FRONT PORCH STEPS.
THAT'S ANOTHER DETERMINATION THAT NEEDS TO BE MADE BY THE HPC.
I GUESS THERE ARE PRESET DESIGNS.
UH, UM, I, I HAD QUESTIONS ON THAT 'CAUSE IT'S KIND OF DRAWN LIKE IT'S A PREFAB ALUMINUM SYSTEM, BUT IT'S CALLED OUT A ROD IRON.
UM, BUT THE UDL REQUIRES, YEAH, ASHLEY, ASHLEY, YOU WANNA ANSWER SOMETHING? THEY CAN JUST BE STRAIGHT VERTICAL.
THE, THE THOUGHT WAS FOR THEM TO CURL OUTWARDS, NOT CURL LIKE THIS, BUT IT'S SO MANY BACK AND FORTH THAT IT WAS EASIER JUST TO LEAVE IT.
BUT IF THIS IS THE COMMENT, THEY CAN BE STRAIGHT UP AND DOWN WITH NO CURVE AT ALL OF THEM.
I'M NOT SURE THAT I'M PERSONALLY OFFENDED BY THE CURVE.
I'M MORE CONFUSED BY THE HOW IT'S CONSTRUCTED PIECE OF THE DETAIL.
PERSONALLY, I DON'T HOW I, PERSONALLY, I THINK IT SHOULD BE STRAIGHT.
IT SHOULD, IT'S MORE TRADITIONAL.
DON'T THINK THIS THERE, THERE'S NOTHING IN BLUFFTON THAT HAS THIS.
I'VE SEEN THAT WE'RE, WE'RE IFFY ON APPROVING THE STRAIGHT IS FINE RAIL.
SO I THINK IT NEEDS TO BE STRAIGHT.
NUMBER THREE IS THE USE OF THE SLIDING DOOR SYSTEM AT THE BACK PORCH.
I KNOW Y'ALL TOUCHED ON THAT ALREADY, BUT JUST I GUESS FOR, I ONLY I DID, YEAH.
I WAS THE ONE WHO WAS PRETTY DIRECT ABOUT NOT APPROVING THE SLIDING DOOR
UM, THIS ONE IS I THINK MUCH MORE HIDDEN THAN THAT ONE WAS.
UM, BUT THAT ONE WAS ALSO KIND OF ON AN ALLEY.
SO, BUT IF YOU'RE OPEN IT, I MEAN IT'S AN EASY, IT'S JUST A DOUBLE FRENCH DOOR.
I THINK THAT'S AN EASY CHANGE.
SO JUST CHANGE IT TO A FRENCH DOOR.
SO JUST CHANGE THE MIDDLE ONES IS TWO SIDELIGHTS AND A FRENCH DOOR IN THE MIDDLE.
AND THEN THE FOURTH ONE WAS THE USE OF THE PVC MATERIAL FOR THE WATER TABLE AND DRIP CAP TRIM.
AND THAT HAS NOT BEEN APPROVED BEFORE.
'CAUSE ALL THE PVC STUFF HAS ROUNDED EDGES AND JUST DOESN'T REALLY HAVE THE APPEARANCE OF WOOD AT THE END OF THE DAY IN THE SAME WAY THAT PARTY ALREADY IS.
THERE ARE ALSO A NUMBER OF CONDITIONS THAT ARE LISTED IN THE STAFF REPORT.
I, STEVEN WILL TAKE AN OPPORTUNITY TO LOOK THROUGH THOSE AND MAKE SURE THAT THOSE ARE ADDRESSED.
UH, I HAVEN'T HEARD FROM THE APPLICANT THAT THEY DISAGREE WITH ANY OF THOSE CONDITIONS THAT WERE PUT IN THERE.
SO I WOULD AGAIN, ASSUME THAT THOSE WILL BE, THOSE WILL BE ADDRESSED.
AND THEN, UM, NUMBER FOUR, THE CRITERIA THAT SOUNDS LIKE WE ARE HAVING THE MOST DISCUSSION OVER IS THE DEMONSTRATION OF COMPATIBLE VISUAL RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE, THE, THE BUILDINGS, THE MASS, THE SCALE, THE HEIGHT BEFORE.
AND, UH, AGAIN, MY, MY UNDERSTANDING AND I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT I UNDERSTAND THAT AS WELL AS THE APPLICANT.
AND I'M, I'M THINKING I'M GOING THE WRONG DIRECTION HERE.
UM, IT, IT, IT IS NOT THE MAIN STRUCTURE AS MUCH AS THE CRITERIA.
I'M LOOKING FOR THE, I THINK TRUCTURE.
TWO MORE, TWO MORE SHEETS YOU'LL GET TO THE, YEAH.
THIS ONE HERE? YEAH, GO ONE MORE.
UM, IT IS THIS WALL HERE, THIS REAR FACING WALL ON THE ALLEY AND THEN THE ONE, THE LATTICE WALL OVER HERE.
UH, WHAT WAS ORIGINALLY PROPOSED AT THE BZA INCLUDED A, UH, PROJECTION, LIKE A ROOF PROJECTION HERE.
YEAH, THAT KIND OF BROKE UP THE, JUST THE FLAT FACADE.
IF I CAN MAKE ONE CORRECTION TO COUNSEL THAT IT WAS REMOVED BEFORE IT WENT TO BZA.
UM, BUT UM, AS THE APPLICANT BROUGHT UP AS THIS WAS GOING TOWARD BZA AND I THINK IT WAS JUST ABOUT, IT WASN'T MANY DAYS BEFORE IT WENT TO TO BZA THAT IT WAS, IT WAS, UH, STAFF NOTICED THAT THE PROJECTION WOULD HAVE GONE OVER THE PROPERTY LINE AND INTO THE RIGHT OF WAY.
WHAT YOU CAN NORMALLY GET OR, YOU KNOW, IS AN ENCROACHMENT EASEMENT IF IT WAS INTO JUST COMMON AREA.
UH, BUT BECAUSE THIS WAS A COMMON AREA AND A POWER EASEMENT, IT'S UNLIKELY THAT DOMINION WOULD GRANT ANY SORT OF, NOT IN A TIMELY MANNER.
I MEAN, THEY PROBABLY WOULD, BUT NOT SO, UH, IT WAS, IT WAS REMOVED.
UH, BUT I UNDERSTAND THAT WHAT HPC OR HPRC UH, IS GOING TO LOOK AT ARE DIFFERENT ALTERNATIVES THAT WILL FIT WITHIN THE PROPERTY LOANS AND ALSO CONFORM WITH THE SETBACKS AND THE OTHER REQUIREMENTS THAT WE HAVE AS
[01:20:01]
MODIFIED BY THE VARIANCE TO SEE WHAT CAN BE DONE TO MODIFY THIS FACADE AND THIS ONE DOWN HERE TO BETTER, BETTER BREAK UP THAT THE, THE BOX, UM, SO THAT THE CARRIAGE HOUSE CAN BE, SO THE ENTIRE PROPERTY CAN BE APPROVED.BUT THE CARRIAGE HOUSE IN PARTICULAR, UM, OTHERWISE I HAVEN'T HEARD ANYTHING, UM, DIRECTLY ABOUT THE, THE MAIN STRUCTURE.
I MEAN OBVIOUSLY THERE ARE CONCERNS ABOUT THE SIZE WITH COMPARISON TO THE LOT, BUT UNDERSTANDING THE LOT, THE DIMENSION LIMITATIONS THERE WITH THE LOT.
AND, UM, I THINK AS, UM, CHAIRMAN DEPAUW RIGHT OR POINTED OUT SOME OF THAT SPACING ALSO ALLOWS FOR A, A MORE APPROPRIATE BREAKUP WITH THE TREES AND LANDSCAPING.
SO, UM, AGAIN, I JUST REALLY WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE WERE GIVING BOTH THE APPLICANT AND THE, UM, THE ARCHITECT SOME GUIDANCE ON WHAT THEY WERE LOOKING FOR AND WHAT TO EXPECT IN THE UPCOMING MEETINGS.
'CAUSE WE ARE POTENTIALLY GONNA HAVE THREE MORE PEOPLE UP HERE WHO MAY ASK SIMILAR QUESTIONS OR WHO MAY HAVE DIFFERENT CONCERNS.
UM, IS THAT MORE OR LESS, MORE OR LESS CAUGHT MOST OF THE, MOST OF THE CONCERNS? YEAH, I THINK THAT'S A GOOD SUMMARY OF OUR DISCUSSION.
YEAH, I THINK WE'LL HAVE SOME ADDITIONAL COMMENTS, BUT IT'S MORE DETAIL ORIENTED IN MAKING SURE THAT WHAT'S KIND OF CODIFIED IN THE DETAILS AND THE NOTES IS KIND OF MATCHING WHAT THE EXPECTATION IS.
SO WHEN IT'S BUILT, WE CAN RELIABLY LOOK BACK AT THE PLANS AND, YOU KNOW, UNDER UNDERSTAND WHAT WE'RE GETTING AND WHAT WE'RE APPROVING.
SO, SO NOW, NOW THAT WE HAVE A GENERAL IDEA OF THE DIRECTION, I THINK THE MOTION TO WOULD BE A MOTION TO TABLE THIS APPLICATION OR TABLE DECISION ON THIS APPLICATION, UM, UNTIL IT CAN BE REVIEWED BY EITHER HBRC OR BY JUST TWO COMMISSIONERS, WHICH WHATEVER IT MAY BE, BUT BE PRESENTED AT, I'LL DEFER TO STAFF ABOUT WHEN IS THE NEXT MEETING AT WHICH IT CAN BE BROUGHT BACK BEFORE THE FULL HPC FOR CONSIDERATION.
SO, UH, BUT IT WOULD BE JUST A MOTION TO TABLE.
ARE WE READY FOR A MOTION TO TABLE? DO WE HAVE ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? IF I CAN INTERJECT JUST ONE SECOND.
UM, THE PROCESS FROM HERE MOVING FORWARD, THERE WAS A LOT OF DISCUSSION BACK AND FORTH.
WHAT'S, WHAT, WHAT, WHAT IS THE ACTUAL PROCESS THAT WE'RE GONNA, IF WE TABLE THAT, WHAT'S OUR NEXT STEP? IT SOUNDED TO ME AS THOUGH EVERYBODY WOULD BE ON BOARD WITH, UH, TWO OF US, UH, COMMISSIONER PROPS AND I, UH, MEETING WITH YOU GUYS WITH STAFF AND PROVIDING A LIST OF COMMENTS TO ADDRESS FOR THE H AND THEN, UM, FOR THE NEXT HPC MEETING THAT YOU CAN, UM, SUBMIT AND GET ON THE AGENDA FOR SO THAT WE DON'T HAVE TO WAIT FOR THE FULL HPRC MEETING.
JUST FOR CLARIFICATION, THE DEADLINE WAS TODAY FOR THE NOVEMBER MEETING AND NOVEMBER 4TH IS THE DEADLINE FOR THE DECEMBER 2ND MEETING.
SO I'LL GO AHEAD AND MAKE A MOTION TO, UH, TABLE THE DECISION ON, UM, THIS AGENDA ITEM.
UM, AND THAT OUR NEXT STEP WILL BE FOR, UH, COMMISSIONER PROPS AND I TO MEET WITH THE APPLICANT AND TOWN STAFF, UH, TO GO OVER SOME ADDITIONAL COMMENTS.
UM, AND THEN YOUR NEXT STEP WILL AFTER THAT WOULD BE SUBMITTING FOR HBRC OR FULL HPC HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION, UM, AT THE NEXT MEETING THAT YOU'RE ABLE TO OKAY.
I THOUGHT HE MADE THE MENTION NO, THAT THAT WAS A MOTION.
THE UM, AGENDA ITEM HAS BEEN TABLED.
[VIII.1. Historic District Monthly Update. (Staff)]
TO THE NEXT ITEM ON OUR AGENDA.THE HISTORIC DISTRICT MONTHLY UPDATE ITEMS FOR THIS PAST MONTH.
AND YOU, UH, INCLUDE A VARIETY OF THINGS, INCLUDING, UM, SOME SIGNAGE AROUND TOWN GARAGE AT 34, UH, THOMAS HAYWARD STREET, UH, THE ADDITION OF LIGHT POLES AT 20 BRIDGE.
UH, YOU CAN READ THROUGH THE, THE MATRIX HERE AND UM, IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, UH, CAROLINE AND OR MYSELF CAN ANSWER.
ANY QUESTIONS FOR STAFF? ALL RIGHT, THANK YOU.
BEFORE WE ADJOURN, CAN I, ONE THING, UM, THE THREE OF US WERE AT THE OLD TOWN MASTER PLAN, UM, KICKOFF.
THERE IS A CARD AND I, FOR CARITA AND FOR ALL THE STAFF, I HOPE WE ALL GET THIS.
'CAUSE IF YOU WEREN'T THERE, YOU CAN STILL
[01:25:01]
BE PART OF IT AND DOWNLOAD THE APP AND SHOW AND ANSWER THE SAME QUESTIONS.SO I WOULD URGE EVERYONE TO SHARE IT WITH EVERYONE.
SO STAFF HAS A GOOD SET OF DATA, UM, BECAUSE THIS IS A VERY IMPORTANT MM-HMM
SO I TOOK A BOOKMARK, UM, SO IF YOU WANNA SCAN IT OR TAKE A, I THINK WHATEVER CHARLOTTE HAS 'EM.
SO I WOULD SUGGEST Y'ALL TAKING THESE AND, AND FILLING IT OUT.
YOU DON'T HAVE THOSE FIRE LITTLE? I DON'T, BUT I CAN GET YOU ONE BEFORE YOU LEAVE
DO I HAVE A MOTION TO ADJOURN? SO MOVED.
I REMEMBER CAMPBELL, AND THIS IS BEAUFORD COUNTY MOMENTS.
I WANT TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT FOOD TODAY.
THE FOOD HAS BEEN A GREAT PART OF OUR LIFE IN TERMS OF GATHERING FOOD AND PREPARING THEM.
OUR FOOD IS BASED ON THE LAND AND THE SEA.
THE LAND FOOD HAS ALWAYS BEEN RICE.
WE DON'T FEEL WE HAVE EATEN DINNER UNLESS WE'VE HAD RICE.
RICE WAS MIXED WITH VARIOUS ITEMS FROM THE SEA, LIKE OYSTERS OR SHRIMP.
AND WHEN THEY'RE COOKED WITH RICE IN ONE POT, WE CALL IT A RICE OR SHRIMP OR AN OYSTER PERLOW.
AND THEN WE HAVE THE WATERMELONS AND THE SWEET POTATOES.
SWEET POTATOES WAS ALWAYS EATEN WITH FISH AND FRESH FISH WITH GRAVY AND A SWEET POTATO.
OKRA HAS ALWAYS BEEN A VERY IMPORTANT PART OF OUR FOOD WAYS.
WE, WE, WE RAISE THEM AS WELL AS WE PREPARE THEM WITH SHRIMP AND TOMATOES.
AND SOME PEOPLE WOULD CALL THAT A GUMBO.
AND THAT'S WHAT EXACTLY WHAT IT IS.
AND SO ENJOY THE FOOD OF THE LOW COUNTRY BECAUSE IT'S BEEN VERY MUCH A PART OF OUR HISTORY AS THIS IS EMERY CAMPBELL AND THIS HAS BEEN YOUR BEAUFORT COUNTY MOMENT.
TO SEE MORE BEAUFORT COUNTY MOMENTS GO TO THE BEAUFORT COUNTY LIBRARY HOMEPAGE AND CLICK ON THE LOCAL HISTORY TAB.