[00:00:02]
[1. CALL TO ORDER: Alice Howard, Chair]
GOOD MORNING.I'D LIKE TO CALL THE SPECIAL, UM, COUNTY COUNCIL WORKSHOP TO ORDER ON AUGUST 28TH, 10:00 AM PLEASE RISE FOR THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE.
I PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE DO OF AMERICA TO THE REPUBLIC FOR STANDS.
ONE NATION, NATION UNDER INDIVISIBLE WITH LIBERTY AND JUSTICE.
AND YOU, YOU'LL CONFIRM THAT THIS MEETING WAS ADVERTISED IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT, CORRECT? YES, MA'AM.
[4. APPROVAL OF AGENDA]
A MOTION TO APPROVE THE AGENDA.AND WE HAVE TWO OF OUR COUNCIL MEMBERS.
UM, WE HAVE COUNCILMAN PASSMAN, COUNCILMAN MCCALLAN, AND COUNCILMAN LAWSON ONLINE TODAY.
AND WHEN THE AGENDA HAS BEEN APPROVED,
[5. PUBLIC COMMENT PERIOD - 15 MINUTES TOTAL]
WE HAVE ONE PUBLIC COMMENT.I'D LIKE TO REMIND THE, UM, THE PUBLIC THAT THE SPEAKER'S PERMITTED TO SPEAK.
NO MORE THAN THREE MINUTES TO COMPLETE THEIR COMMENTS TO COUNCIL.
EVERYONE SPEAKING BEFORE COUNCIL WILL BE REQUIRED TO DO SO IN A CIVIL MANNER.
WELL, COUNCIL WILL NOT TOLERATE PERSONAL ATTACKS ON INDIVIDUAL COUNCIL MEMBERS, COUNTY STAFF, OR ANY PERSON OR GROUP.
RACIAL SLURS AND PROFANITY WILL NOT BE PERMITTED.
COUNCIL WILL LISTEN TO PUBLIC COMMENTS BUT NOT RESPOND.
AND THE PERSON, THE ONLY PERSON WE HAD THAT SIGNED UP TODAY IS, UH, ROBERT NEW, UH, DISTRICT THREE LIVES IN DISTRICT THREE, OR IS FROM DISTRICT THREE.
THANK YOU FOR SERVING AND THANK YOU FOR SUPPORTING THE CPO OVER THESE MANY PAST YEARS.
JUST A QUICK UPDATE, AS YOU ARE ALL AWARE.
A DARK MONEY SUPER PAC WAS CREATED IN APRIL.
THE CLEAR INTENT WAS TO BUY COUNTY COUNCIL SEATS.
IT ALSO PRETENDS FOR FUTURE MEDDLING IN OUR ELECTIONS.
THE REPORT FILE WITH THE FEDERAL ELECTION COMMISSION ON JULY 15TH LISTED THE DONOR AS ADVANCED AN AMERICAN ADVANCEMENT, A WELL-KNOWN 5 0 1 C FOUR FRONT FOR SUPER PACS ACROSS THE COUNTRY.
THE PACS SPENT A HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS MORE THAN WAS SPENT BY ALL THE CANDIDATES COMBINED.
THE FACT THAT IT BACKFIRED SPECTACULARLY DOESN'T NEGATE THE RAMIFICATION OF THIS PAC'S EVIL INTENTIONS.
SOMEBODY OR SOME PERSON SPENT A LARGE SUM TO MANIPULATE THE DEMOCRATIC PROCESS.
THEY SLANDERED PEOPLE, INCLUDING COUNCIL MEMBER LAWSON WITH VICIOUS NEGATIVE ADS.
MILLIONS OF AMERICANS, MY AMERICANS, MYSELF, INCLUDE, DONATE TO CAMPAIGNS, PEOPLE DONATED TO MY POLITICAL CAMPAIGNS.
IT IS A VOTE OF SUPPORT FOR THOSE YOU ARE PHILOSOPHICALLY ALIGNED WITH ALMOST ALWAYS, THERE'S NO EXPECTATION OF ANY FINANCIAL BENEFIT.
AND YOU WELCOME YOUR NAME BEING LISTED IN FINANCIAL REPORTS WITH THIS DARK MONEY SUPER PAC.
THERE WAS A CLEAR INTENTION OF A DIRECT FINANCIAL BENEFIT BY WHOLESALE BUYING OF COUNCIL SEATS.
AND BECAUSE OF THE PEOPLE WHO DID THIS ARE COWARDS THAT WENT THE GREAT LYNCH TO HIDE THEIR IDENTITY.
THIS WILL NOT BE THE LAST WORD ON THIS PACS FUNDING.
AND FOR THOSE WHO DID THIS, THEY'RE CLEARLY DEVOID OF ANY SENSE OF DECENCY.
THANK YOU MR. NO, UH, WE ONLY HAVE ONE ITEM
[6. Discussion regarding revisions to the Beaufort County Employee Handbook, specifically to section 1.6, Whistleblower Policy]
TODAY ON THE AGENDA.WE HAVE EVERYONE'S HERE TODAY.
UH, WE HAVE, I HOPE EVERYONE HAD A CHANCE TO LOOK AT THE EDITS THAT WERE, UH, IN THE FIRST PART OF THE PACKET.
AND ALSO, I SENT OUT A LINK TO A, UM, A SITE IN SPARTANBURG COUNTY.
THEY HAVE A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT WAY OF DOING THEIR PROGRAM WHERE THEY USE A THIRD PARTY TO REPORT TO, AND THEN IT GOES TO, UM, THE ADMINISTRATION AFTER THEY DO INITIAL INVESTIGATION.
UH, AND IF YOU DIDN'T HAVE A CHANCE TO LOOK AT THAT, I THINK, UM, MS. BROCK CAN PULL IT UP IF, IF DURING THE DISCUSSION WE WANNA TALK ABOUT THAT.
SO WHAT I'D LIKE, I HOPE EVERYONE HAD A CHANCE TO REVIEW ALL THE COMMENTS.
THERE'S A LOT OF DIFFERENT COLORS ON THE COMMENT ON THE ORIGINAL.
UH, I'LL START OUT, AND I KNOW THAT MS. BROCK IS RE AND OTHERS ARE TAKING GOOD NOTES ABOUT THIS.
UH, ANY, ANY, IT'S AN OPEN DISCUSSION.
[00:05:02]
ANYONE ONLINE FIRST OR I'LL BEGIN.CAN EVERYBODY HEAR ME OKAY? YES, SIR.
CLEARLY I THINK ALL OF US ARE IN AGREEMENT THAT WE HAVE TO HAVE A MUCH MORE OSE, UH, WHISTLEBLOWER POLICY.
NUMBER TWO, I THINK THIS POLICY NEEDS TO CONTAIN CERTAIN ELEMENTS THAT WILL ALLOW EVERYONE TO KNOW THE INTENT OF THE POLICY, THE SCOPE OF THE POLICY, THE PURPOSE, HOW YOU REPORT, UH, HOW WE'RE GOING TO INVESTIGATE HOW WE'RE GOING TO PROTECT EVERYONE.
AND FINALLY, I THINK IT HAS TO BE A, UM, PROCESS THAT ALLOWS US TO HAVE THE CHANNELS OF REPORTING, BUT A CENTRALIZED, WHAT LARRY HAS SAID.
UH, AN INTEGRITY GROUP THAT HANDLES EVERYTHING.
AND COUNCILMAN YORK GLOVER? YEAH.
UH, LET ME JUST IN GENERAL SAY THAT, UM, WHEN WE LOOK AT WHISTLEBLOWERS, UM, AND WE LOOK AT COMPLAINTS, WE LOOK AT WHISTLEBLOWERS, WE LOOK AT COMPLAINTS, UM, SOMETIME THERE'S A THIN LINE BETWEEN COMPLAINTS AND WHAT IS ACTUALLY TRULY A WHISTLEBLOWER.
UM, I, I THINK THE GENERAL INTENT HERE, OUR HOPE IS THAT WE PROTECT EVERYBODY, WHETHER IT'S A COMPLAINT OR WHETHER THERE IS A WHISTLEBLOWER.
AND, UM, GENERALLY I THINK WHISTLE, A COMPLAINT COULD TURN TO A WHISTLEBLOWER, UM, FULL FLEDGED, FULL STEAM.
BUT, YOU KNOW, JUST COMPLAINING.
I THINK PEOPLE ALSO NEED TO BE PROTECTED AS WELL.
UM, AND THEN TO MAKE SURE THAT, UM, THERE IS NO REPRISAL FOR, UM, EITHER COMPLAINING OR, UM, BEING A WHISTLEBLOWER.
THEY ARE ALL PROTECTED AND STUFF.
SO, UM, THAT'S MY GENERAL COMMENT.
I WE CAN'T JUST SAY WE GONNA PROTECT YOU.
I THINK WE HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT IT'S DEMONSTRATED AS WELL SO PEOPLE FEEL COMFORTABLE, PEOPLE FEEL SAFE, UM, PEOPLE WILL, WILL, WILL EXPRESS THEMSELVES.
BUT IF THEY FEEL THAT MOST PEOPLE IN THIS COUNTY, UM, ARE LIVING, UM, PAYDAY TO PAYDAY, SO HOW DO YOU PROTECT THAT PERSON WITHOUT LOSING THEIR JOB? THAT'S WHERE I AM.
AND I WANT PEOPLE TO FEEL FREE TO COME FORWARD KNOWING THAT THEIR JOB IS NOT GONNA BE IN QUESTION.
AND I DON'T GET THAT FEELING RIGHT NOW, BUT THAT'S WHERE I AM.
SO, UM, OUR, OUR ATTORNEY, ROBERT, A CHURCH, EXPLAINED TO US THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A WHISTLEBLOWER AND A COMPLAINANT.
AND WE NEED TO KEEP THAT IN MIND.
AND IN THE PACKET WE GOT NOT WHAT'S THERE, BUT WHAT'S HERE.
SO BASICALLY THIS IS NOT, YOU KNOW, MY SUPERVISOR DIDN'T GIVE ME MY DAY OFF WHEN I REQUESTED IT.
AND SO I THINK WE NEED TO MAKE SURE PEOPLE UNDERSTAND WHISTLEBLOWER, AND THEN YES, WE HAVE TO PROTECT THEM AS MR. GLOVER SAID.
UM, BUT IT NEEDS TO BE CLEAR, AND IT'S IN THIS PAGE IN OUR PACKET, IT'S VERY CLEAR WHAT A WHISTLEBLOWER WOULD BE.
ANY OTHER YES, COUNCILMAN DAWSON.
TO, TO ADD TO WHAT ALL HAS BEEN SAID ALREADY, UM, UH, OUR EFFORTS TO ACTUALLY ESTABLISH A WHISTLEBLOWER PROGRAM, UH, IS GONNA REQUIRE US TO ENSURE, UH, NOT ONLY THE, UH, EMPLOYEES WHO ARE ACTUALLY, UH, PROVIDING THE INFORMATION AND INSIGHT, BUT ALSO TO OUR DEPARTMENT HEADS TO UNDERSTAND THAT THEY, UH, THIS POLICY ACTUALLY ADDRESSES THEM ALSO TO THE POINT WHERE, UH, THERE'S NO RETALIATION AND, AND THERE'S A, THERE'S AN ENVIRONMENT WHERE THE EMPLOYEES ARE NOT, UM, IMPEDED OR, UH, RETALIATED AGAINST FOR ACTUALLY COMING
[00:10:01]
FORTH AND, AND MAKING, UH, UH, US AWARE OR MAKING ADMINISTRATION AWARE OF SOMETHING GOING ON THAT IS NOT RIGHT.UM, I, I'D JUST LIKE TO MAKE A COMMENT.
THE THING I, UM, ONE THING I LIKED ABOUT THE SPARTANBURG PROCESS IS THAT YOU CAN REPORT ANONYMOUSLY AND THEY'RE OUTSIDE AGENCY, THEY'RE NOT COUNTY.
THEY DO, THEY ASSIGN A NUMBER TO IT, AND THEN YOU CAN ACTUALLY, I MEAN, IT SEEMS LIKE ANOTHER LEVEL OF PROTECTION FOR THE EMPLOYEES.
SO, UM, BUT IT'S JUST SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT, UH, THEIR, THE WAY THEY, THEY PROCESS THEIRS.
UH, IT'S LESS, IT SEEMED LIKE LESS OPPORTUNITY FOR, UM, A SUPERVISOR TO FIND, TO KNOW THAT SOMETHING HAD BEEN FILED.
SO, ANY OTHER COMMENTS ONLINE? OH, ALRIGHT.
COUNCILMAN CUNNINGHAM, OR, OR WAS THAT LARRY? I COULDN'T SEE BOTH OF YOU.
BOTH OF, I'LL START WITH, UM, COUNCILMAN CUNNINGHAM AND THEN COUNCIL MCALLEN.
THERE'S, THAT'S SOMETHING NEW, SO I'LL TAKE IT.
UM, NOW I WOULD SAY TWO THINGS.
ONE, I THINK YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD ONE THAT WHEN WE TALKED ABOUT THIS IN COMMITTEE IS THERE HAS TO BE AN ABILITY FOR THEM TO DO THIS ANONYMOUSLY BECAUSE FACTS ARE THAT IT'S THE ONLY WAY TO BE ABLE TO PROTECT, PROTECT PEOPLE IS BECAUSE OF THAT HUMAN NATURE.
ANYTIME YOU GIVE ANY MORE INFORMATION THAN THAT, YOU OPEN UP THE DOOR OF POSSIBILITY FOR US NOT TO BE ABLE TO PROTECT THEM.
IT'S THE ONLY WAY TO BE ABLE TO AVOID THAT.
UM, SO I'M GLAD THAT'S IN THERE.
THE OTHER THING IS, I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE EXACTLY WHAT I SAID, THAT WE ARE NOT THE GATEKEEPERS OF THIS.
I KNOW THAT THEY CAN REPORT TO US AND THAT'S FINE.
WE CAN TURN IT OVER TO WHERE WE NEED TO TURN IT OVER TO.
BUT THAT INFORMATION, WE SET POLICY, WE DON'T ACT ON THAT POLICY AND USE IT TO OUR BENEFIT OR TO KNOW INFORMATION.
THAT'S WHERE WE STAY OUT OF THAT.
SO, I MEAN, I WOULD ASSUME THAT IF WE HAVE A MAJOR COMPLAINT, THAT THAT'S WHEN OUR COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR WOULD BRING THIS TO OUR ATTENTION.
BUT IT'S OUR COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR AND HRS JOB TO HANDLE THIS IN DAY-TO-DAY OPERATIONS, NOT US AS COUNCIL MEMBERS.
SO I JUST WANT THAT TO BE KNOWN TO THE PUBLIC.
THIS IS NOT A MICROMANAGING ON OUR SIDE AND IT SHOULDN'T BE.
THIS IS US PUTTING A POLICY AND STANDARD IN PLACE SO THAT OUR, OUR COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR AND HR DEPARTMENT CAN FOLLOW THROUGH ON IT.
CAN YOU HEAR ME OKAY? MM-HMM
I, UH, STARTED TALKING ABOUT THIS.
I'VE REFINED MY VIEW A BIT ON IT.
UH, I AM NOT URGING THE CREATION OF A, UH, INTEGRITY DEPARTMENT.
I'M MORE, UM, PERSUADED DAILY THAT AN INTEGRITY OFFICER NEEDS TO BE IDENTIFIED AND THAT PERSON SHOULD NOT BE A PERSON ON COUNTY COUNCIL.
IF SOMEONE IS STOPPED IN THE HALL OR A PHONE CALL COMES IN OR SOMETHING IS BROUGHT TO THE ATTENTION OF A COUNCIL MEMBER, THEY SHOULD BE ABLE TO REFER IT AFTER INITIAL CONVERSATION TO THE INTEGRITY OFFICER WHO SHOULD BE A MEMBER, I BELIEVE, OF THE EXECUTIVE STAFF.
AND IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE A FULL-TIME JOB BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW YET HOW MANY OF THESE COMPLAINTS WE ARE FIELDING ON AN ANNUAL BASIS, BUT IF IT BECOMES A FULL-TIME JOB, SO BE IT.
UH, MY FEELING ON IT WAS THAT A PROTECTED PARTY, AND I'LL REFER TO ANYONE WHO FILES A WHISTLEBLOWER COMPLAINT AS A PROTECTED PARTY, UM, SHOULD BE ABLE TO PRESENT THIS INFORMATION, UH, TO THE INTEGRITY OFFICER, EITHER IN PERSON, UH, OR IN WRITING.
AND IF THEY WISH TO REMAIN ANONYMOUS, THAT WOULD BE FINE.
AND THEN THE INTEGRITY OFFICER SHOULD BE KEEPING A FILE ON THESE THINGS AS THEY COME IN.
AND AFTER EVALUATING IT, UM, MAKE A DECISION AS TO HOW IT WILL BE INVESTIGATED.
UH, MY RECOMMENDATION IS NOT TO LET ANYONE IN THE ORGANIZATION INVESTIGATE THIS, BUT RATHER GO TO AN OUTSIDE ORGANIZATION OR AGENCY WHO HAVE EXPERIENCE IN DOING THESE THINGS TO INVESTIGATE THIS.
AND THEN, UM, THE INTEGRITY OFFICER, EITHER INDIVIDUALLY OR THROUGH WHATEVER ASSISTANCE THEY MAY HAVE, UH, SHOULD KEEP A LOG, UH, WITH A TIMELINE IN IT, UM, WITH A BEGINNING AND AN END.
AND THE INTEGRITY OFFICER SHOULD BE THE PERSON IMPOSING THE DATE THAT THIS REPORT HAS TO COME BACK AND ALSO BE THE PERSON WHO IS CHECKING, UH, ON WHATEVER, UM, UH, SCHEDULE IS DEVELOPED, UH, THE STATUS OF THESE CASES TO ENSURE THEY DO COME BACK WITHIN A REASONABLE AMOUNT OF TIME ONCE THEY COME BACK.
IT SHOULD STAY WITHIN THE EXECUTIVE STAFF, UH, BECAUSE THE EXECUTIVE STAFF IS GOING TO HAVE TO DEAL WITH WHAT IT IS, WHAT THE NATURE OF THE COMPLAINT IS.
AND IF PEOPLE ARE TO BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE, THEN THAT WOULD ALSO HAVE TO FLOW THROUGH WHATEVER MECHANISMS WE HAVE IN PLACE ON THE EXECUTIVE
[00:15:01]
SIDE WITH REGARD TO, UM, UH, COMMITTEE MEETINGS TO DISCUSS VIOLATIONS, PENALTIES TO BE IMPOSED.AND ALL OF THAT WOULD HAVE TO COME THROUGH HR.
NOW, I THINK WE COULD PROBABLY IDENTIFY A PERSON AS THE INTEGRITY OFFICER WHO IS WELL SITUATED, BECAUSE ALTHOUGH I DON'T BELIEVE THAT COUNTY COUNCIL SHOULD BE RECEIVING COMPLAINTS, THEY WILL, BUT I DON'T BELIEVE THAT THEY SHOULD BE ACTING ON THEM.
HOWEVER, I DO BELIEVE THAT THE LEADERSHIP OF COUNCIL NEEDS TO BE FULLY INFORMED ON A REGULAR BASIS, ON THE STATUS OF EVERY ONE OF THE COMPLAINTS THAT'S BEEN FILED AND THE NATURE OF THE COMPLAINT.
SO WHILE THIS HAS TO ROUTE THROUGH THE EXECUTIVE STAFF FOR ULTIMATE ACTION, UH, THERE IS A RESPONSIBILITY TO KEEP THE LEADERSHIP OF COUNCIL INFORMED AND ALL THE OTHER MEMBERS AS THE LEADERSHIP SEES FIT.
UM, SO I JUST WANNA STATE, I'M NOT TRYING TO CREATE HERE A BUREAUCRACY WITHIN A BUREAUCRACY.
I'M SIMPLY TRYING TO IDENTIFY SOMEONE ON THE EXECUTIVE STAFF WHO CAN BE IDENTIFIED AS AN INTEGRITY OFFICER WHO CAN HANDLE THESE MATTERS.
AND PEOPLE HAVE THE CONFIDENCE TO KNOW THAT WHEN IT'S PROVIDED TO THE INTEGRITY OFFICER, THAT THEIR STATUS WILL BE PROTECTED.
AND WHETHER THAT'S DELIVERED IN PERSON OR ANONYMOUSLY, UH, THAT SHOULD BE INCORPORATED INTO THE DETAILS OF HOW THIS IS STRUCTURED.
BUT THE WHOLE PURPOSE OF HAVING THE INTEGRITY OFFICER AS THE FOCAL POINT IS TO ENSURE THAT PEOPLE ARE PROTECTED AND THEIR IDENTITIES ARE NOT REVEALED, AND THAT THEY'RE NOT AT ANY RISK FOR TAKING THE ACTION THAT THEY'VE TAKEN TO REPORT SOMETHING THAT THEY SEEM TO THINK IS OUT OF SORTS, OUT OF BALANCE, OR PEOPLE ARE ACTING INAPPROPRIATELY.
SO, UH, I'LL JUST SUMMARIZE BY SAYING NO BUREAUCRACY WITHIN A BUREAUCRACY, NO NEED FOR A DEPARTMENT WITH A LOT OF PEOPLE STAFFING IT.
UH, UNLESS OF COURSE WE HAVE SUCH A FLOOD OF THESE THINGS COMING IN, WHICH I CAN'T IMAGINE, I BELIEVE A SIMPLE INTEGRITY OFFICER CAN HANDLE IT.
AND LARRY, YOU'VE SPENT A LOT OF TIME AND THOUGHT ON THIS, AND IF I'M, YOU'RE THINKING AN OUTSIDE INVESTIGATOR TYPE TO TAKE IT AND THEN SOMEONE INTERNAL AT THE HIGHER LEVEL TO TRACK IT WITH THAT OUTSIDE FIRM, UM, TO MAKE SURE YEAH.
THE, THE OUTSIDE FIRM WILL BE ENGAGED BY THE INTEGRITY OFFICER.
THEY WILL DELIVER THE, UM, ALLEGATION TO THOSE PEOPLE TO CONDUCT AN APPROPRIATE INVESTIGATION.
UM, AND THEN THEY WILL, THEY WILL ESTABLISH THE TIMELINE.
THEY WILL ENSURE THE STATUS, UH, IS CHECKED TO MAKE SURE IT'S DONE ON TIME.
THEY'LL GET THE REPORTS BACK AND IT WILL BE DELIVERED, UH, TO THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE THE ACTION WOULD HAVE TO BE TAKEN.
BUT OF COURSE, I BELIEVE THAT THE LEADERSHIP OF COUNTY COUNCIL AND EVENTUALLY COUNTY COUNCIL MEMBERS WILL HAVE TO BE BRIEFED ON IT.
BUT THEY DON'T HAVE TO TAKE ANY ACTION AND THEY DON'T HAVE TO ENGAGE ON ANYTHING.
AND IT'S NOT THEIR BUSINESS TO DO.
SO IT'S REALLY LEFT TO THE INTEGRITY OFFICER WHO IS LOCATED IN THE EXECUTIVE STAFF AND DEALING WITH THE EXECUTIVE STAFF RIGHT TO THE END, WHENEVER WHATEVER ACTION IS DECIDED WILL BE TAKEN, WILL BE TAKEN.
WE HAVEN'T HEARD FROM ALL THE COUNCIL MEMBERS.
I'VE BEEN THINKING ABOUT THIS, GOING THROUGH ALL THE ITERATIONS OF WHAT WE RECEIVED, AND I, I CONCUR WITH MY COLLEAGUES AND I, I DON'T THINK THERE'D BE NO BETTER CASE STUDY TO STUDY.
UM, SINCE THIS IS A WORKSHOP, ARE WE PREPARED TO MAYBE TAKE THE PINKY AND I WILL GET SOME LEGAL GUIDANCE HERE, BUT PINKY AND WHAT SHE DID, SHE CAME FORWARD.
WE DON'T WANNA GO THAT AS A CASE STUDY.
WELL, I'M SAYING THAT WOULD BE A NICE CASE STUDY TO YEAH.
FIND OUT, YOU KNOW, HOW WE COULD DO THINGS.
BUT, UM, UM, BUT I CONCUR WITH A LOT OF MY, EVERYTHING WAS SAID TODAY, SO I THINK COUNCILMAN LAWSON HAD HIS HAND UP.
AND THIS IS GONNA GO TO YOUR COMMITTEE.
WELL, UM, LET ME JUST SAY THAT, THAT, YOU KNOW, I'VE DONE A LITTLE RESEARCH NOW AND GONE BACK AND LOOKED AT THINGS AND I WAS SHOCKED TO FIND OUT THAT IF SOMEONE IS, IF IS A BULLY, OR IF THEY'RE MEAN, THAT ACTUALLY IS NOT CONSIDERED SOMETHING YOU COULD FILE A WHISTLEBLOWER FOR.
RIGHT? AND REALLY, IT'S NOT EVEN SOMETHING THAT YOU COULD FILE A COMPLAINT FOR.
UM, THAT SOUNDS CRAZY, BUT, BUT AGAIN, ACCORDING TO THE LAW, SO WHISTLEBLOWERS ARE ONLY PEOPLE THAT ARE BRINGING SOMETHING FORWARD THAT, THAT, UM, THAT THERE'S BEEN A VIOLATION OF SOME TYPE, UM, THAT IS LEGALLY OR, OR AGAINST THE, THE, THE RULES OF WHATEVER ORGANIZATION THEY'RE WITH.
UM, SO AGAIN, THAT'S WHAT A, A WHISTLEBLOWER IS.
SO A TOXIC WORK ENVIRONMENT IS SOMETHING THAT'S COMPLETELY DIFFERENT IF SOMEONE'S COMPLAINING ABOUT THAT.
UM, AND, AND SO, YOU KNOW, THAT'S SOMETHING WE NEED TO BE CAREFUL OF 'CAUSE WE'RE KINDA LUMPING THESE
[00:20:01]
TOGETHER AND PUTTING 'EM ALL TOGETHER.SO IF SOMEONE JUST DOESN'T LIKE SOMEONE THEY WORK WITH, THEY COULD FILE A COMPLAINT, UM, OR THEY COULD FILE IT ANONYMOUSLY, UM, TO GET BACK AT A, AT A WORKER.
OR IF SOMEONE THINKS THAT, THAT YOU KNOW, THEIR BOSS IS BEING MEAN TO THEM, UM, AGAIN, YOUR BOSSES MEAN TO YOU.
THAT'S ACTUALLY, AGAIN, IF YOU BACK AND READ THE, THE LEGAL DEFINITIONS, UM, JUST BECAUSE YOUR BOSSES MEAN THAT IS NOT A TOXIC WORK ENVIRONMENT.
SO, UH, I'D LIKE TO THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, POLLYANNA, WE'RE IN THIS PERFECT WORLD, UM, UH, THAT, THAT THAT'S OUT THERE.
SO THAT'S SOMETHING GOING THROUGH THIS, UM, YOU KNOW, IF WE'RE GONNA DO IT, WE NEED TO DO IT RIGHT AND HAVE THE DIFFERENT DEFINITIONS BECAUSE AGAIN, YOU KNOW, WE WANT TO PROTECT PEOPLE.
BUT THAT, BUT, BUT THEN AGAIN, WE DON'T WANT TO COME TO A SITUATION WHERE, UM, SOMEONE, UH, FILES AN, AN HONEST COMPLAINT AGAINST THEIR BOSS JUST TO GET THEM FIRED.
UM, AND SO AGAIN, THOSE ARE KIND OF THINGS THAT, THAT WE WANT TO PREVENT FROM HAPPENING.
SO, UM, I, I PROBABLY NEED TO GO BACK THROUGH AND READ EVERYTHING AGAIN AND REALLY READ THE LEGALESE OF THIS.
UM, BUT, BUT AGAIN, THAT'S KIND OF WHERE I AM RIGHT NOW.
UM, AS I DIVE DEEPER INTO IT, IT ACTUALLY OPENS UP MORE QUESTIONS, UM, ABOUT WHAT THE PROPER PROCESS WOULD BE TO PROTECT BOTH SIDES TO PROTECT, YOU KNOW, SOMEONE THAT, THAT IS BEING ACCUSED BUT HASN'T BEEN, UM, UH, YOU KNOW, HASN'T, HASN'T BEEN WRITTEN UP OR, OR SOMEONE THAT IS, IS THE COMPLAINANT THAT THAT'S ACTUALLY FILING THE COMPLAINT AND WHY THEY ARE FILING THE COMPLAINT.
SO AGAIN, UM, THIS IS ACTUALLY RAISED MORE QUESTIONS IN MY MIND THAN ANYTHING ELSE.
AND AGAIN, WE JUST NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE PROTECTING PEOPLE ON BOTH SIDES.
NOT NOT JUST, YOU KNOW, THE THE PERSON FILING A COMPLAINT.
UH, AND, AND AGAIN, REALIZE THAT THERE IS A HUGE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SOMEONE FILING A COMPLAINT AND AN ACTUAL WHISTLEBLOWER WHO IS, IS BRINGING FORWARD A VIOLATION, WHETHER IT'S LEGAL, UM, OR, OR OTHERWISE, UM, UH, WITH THAT WHISTLEBLOWER COMPLAINT.
OKAY, MS. BROWN, MY QUESTION'S FOR LARRY.
LARRY, UM, WHEN YOU SAY, UM, OUTSIDE FIRM, WHAT TIME OF FIRM ARE YOU REFERRING TO? LIKE A LAW FIRM OR NO, A WHAT? UH, I'M NOT REF, I'M NOT REFERRING TO A LAW FIRM.
I'M TALKING TO A PERSON WHO HAS THE ABILITY, UH, WHO HAS PARTICIPATED DURING THEIR, EITHER THEIR ACTIVE DUTY CAREER AND THEY'RE NOW RETIRED, OR THEY HAVE CHOSEN TO FOLLOW A CAREER AS A PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR.
I'M PARTICULARLY TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE WHO HAVE BEEN ENGAGED IN CONDUCTING CRIMINAL INVESTIGATIONS IN THE PAST, WHO ARE USED TO, UH, INTERVIEWING PEOPLE, UH, WHO ARE GATHERING EVIDENCE AND MAKING SENSE OF THE EVIDENCE THAT THEY'VE COLLECTED TO ESTABLISH THAT SOMETHING HAS IN FACT OCCURRED BY THE COLLECTION PRESENTATION OF THAT EVIDENCE.
AND I AM NOT ENCOURAGING US TO USE LAW FIRMS TO CONDUCT THESE INVESTIGATIONS.
I THINK IT WOULD BE, UM, JUST AS SUCCESSFUL TO HAVE PEOPLE WHO HAVE, UM, INVESTIGATIVE BACKGROUNDS AND MUCH MORE REASONABLY PRICED.
I, AND I APPRECIATE YOU EXPLAINING THAT, LARRY.
THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT I, UM, I WOULD, I WOULD CONCUR WITH THAT, THOSE THOUGHTS.
UM, AND THAT WOULD MAYBE SCREEN OUT THE, THE, THE TYPE OF THINGS THAT MARK ARE TALKING ABOUT THAT ARE, UM, YOU KNOW, I DON'T LIKE MY BOSS, SO, YOU KNOW, WELL, YOU KNOW, YEAH.
ALICE, YOU KNOW, LISTEN, MAKING A DISTINCTION BETWEEN COMPLAINTS AND, UH, ALLEGATIONS OF CORRUPTION OR INTEGRITY MATTERS, UH, IS REALLY IMPORTANT.
AND I DON'T THINK THE COMPLAINTS NEED TO BE IGNORED, AND THEY MAY NOT EVEN NEED TO BE INVESTIGATED, BUT THERE CERTAINLY NEED TO BE PROVIDED TO PEOPLE IN MANAGEMENT.
'CAUSE IF SOMEBODY IS OPERATING WITHIN OUR ORGANIZATION IN A SITUATION THAT IS CREATING A GREAT DEAL OF DISCOMFORT AND THERE IS NO INTEGRITY VIOLATION, BUT RATHER JUST A MANNER OF SUPERVISING OR A MANNER OF SPEAKING TO EMPLOYEES THAT MAKES THEM UNCOMFORTABLE, IT MAY NOT BE A TOXIC WORK ENVIRONMENT, BUT MANAGEMENT NEEDS TO KNOW ABOUT THAT.
IT NEEDS TO BE BROUGHT TO THEIR ATTENTION.
BECAUSE IT MAY BE TIME FOR A CONFERENCE, AND IT MAY BE TIME FOR SOME COUNSELING, IT MAY BE TIME TO PROVIDE SOME GUIDANCE GOING FORWARD AS TO WHAT THE EXPECTATIONS ARE WITH REGARD TO HOW MANAGEMENT INTERACTS WITH SUBORDINATES.
SO IT MAY NOT MEAN IT'S AN INTEGRITY INVESTIGATION, BUT I DON'T BELIEVE IT NEEDS TO BE IGNORED.
I BELIEVE THAT IF IT'S, IF THAT COMPLAINT IS RECEIVED, IT SHOULD BE FORWARDED FOR CONSIDERATION AND REVIEW AND NOTHING SHOULD BE TURNED BACK AS BEING UNACCEPTABLE.
ANY LAST COMMENT OR OTHER COMMENTS? NOT DAVID, YOU GO DAVID, GO AHEAD.
SO I, I KIND OF HAVE LARRY, THANK YOU FOR CHAMPIONING THIS, BY THE WAY.
BUT I, I HAVE SOMEWHAT OF A DIFFERENT APPROACH.
I THINK IT'S KIND OF A TWOFOLD APPROACH.
ONE, THE CLEARING HOUSE FOR COMPLAINTS, I THINK IS
[00:25:01]
A GOOD IDEA WHAT SPARTANBURG HAS DONE.I THINK WE COULD UTILIZE A VERY SIMILAR COMPANY OR, OR SET UP OR PROCESS FOR THE ORIGINAL COMPLAINTS TO GO TO AND BE VETTED AND THEN RETURN TO THE DEPARTMENTS WHERE THEY NEED TO BASED ON THE, UH, THE NATURE OF THE COMPLAINTS OR, OR WHISTLEBLOWER.
WELL, SO LET ME STOP YOU RIGHT THERE.
WHAT DO YOU MEAN RETURN TO THE DEPARTMENTS? DEPENDING ON THE, ON THE SEVERITY OF THE COMPLAINT OR WHAT IT IS, IF IT'S JUST AN HR COMPLAINT, IT CAN BE RETURNED TO HR FOR THEM TO HANDLE INTERNALLY.
IF IT IS IN FACT A FRAUD, WASTE AND ABUSE ISSUE, THEN THAT'S WHERE IT CAN GO TO THE OFFICE OF INTEGRITY OFFICER OR, UM, WHAT I WAS ABOUT TO PROPOSE.
I KNOW YOU SAID NOT A BUREAUCRACY WITH A BUREAUCRACY, AND I GET THAT.
BUT MY IDEA FOR THIS IS ALMOST AN OFFICE OF, OF INSPECTOR GENERAL TO, TO SERVE IN THAT ROLE IS ALMOST LIKE AN OIG THAT I KNOW YOU SAID YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY WOULD DO ON A DAY-TO-DAY BASIS.
YOU KNOW, DEPENDING ON THE NUMBER OF COMPLAINTS.
I WOULD ALMOST LIKE TO SEE THE OFFICE EXPANDED TO NOT ONLY FIELD, YOU KNOW, TO INVESTIGATE ANY WHISTLEBLOWER COMPLAINTS THAT COME FORWARD, UM, BUT ALSO HAVE THE ABILITY TO GO IN AND AUDIT THE IN INDIVIDUAL DEPARTMENTS AND GO THROUGH AND, AND MAKE SURE, I'LL JUST READ THE HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES.
UH, OFFICE OF INSPECTOR GENERAL AT THE FEDERAL LEVEL SAYS OIGS MISSION IS TO PROVIDE OBJECTIVE OVERSIGHT TO PROMOTE THE ECONOMY EFFICIENCY AND EFFECTIVENESS AND INTEGRITY OF HS HHS PROGRAMS, AS WELL AS THE HEALTH AND WELFARE OF THE PEOPLE THEY SERVE.
THE STATE OFFICE OF INSPECTOR GENERAL SAYS, UH, THE OIG IS CHARGED WITH INVESTIGATING AND DETECTING FRAUD, WASTE AND ABUSE, MISMANAGEMENT, MISCONDUCT, VIOLATIONS OF STATE OR FEDERAL LAW AND WRONGDOING IN THE EXECUTIVE BRANCH.
YOU KNOW, I THINK SETTING UP SOMETHING SIMILAR, I, I DON'T MIND HAVING AN ANONYMOUS KIND OF CLEARING HOUSE WHERE COMPLAINTS CAN GO, LET IT BE VETTED, BUT WE NEED TO HAVE SOMEWHERE FOR IT TO COME BACK TO IN ORDER TO TAKE FURTHER ACTION ON.
SO IT'S KIND OF A TWOFOLD APPROACH, BUT, UM, I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THAT ROLE EXPANDED, NOT ONLY TO TO FIELD THE COMPLAINTS AND INVESTIGATE THOSE COMPLAINTS, BUT ALSO BE ABLE ON A, ON A ROUTINE BASIS, GO AND AUDIT OUR INDIVIDUAL DEPARTMENTS AND PROVIDE REPORTS BACK TO COUNSEL AND MAKE SURE THAT MONEY'S BEING EXPENDED PROPERLY, MAKING SURE THAT THINGS ARE RUNNING SMOOTHLY, AND JUST MAKE SURE EVERYTHING'S BEING EFFECTIVE AND EFFICIENT AND COMING BACK TO US.
UM, I, I LIKE LARRY'S APPROACH.
UM, AND I, I WILL SUPPORT THAT, UH, A HUNDRED PERCENT.
UM, I THINK THE OFFICE OF INTEGRITY, UM, CAN HANDLE, UM, LIKE A CLEARING HOUSE FOR, UM, COMPLAINTS AND FORWARDED TO THE APPROPRIATE, UH, STAFF MEMBER, UM, PREFERABLY THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR.
BUT THE WHISTLEBLOWER, UM, WOULD THEN INVESTIGATE THAT.
AND I THINK IF WE WOULD GO AHEAD AND HIRE THE OFFICER OF INTEGRITY, UM, THE POLICY THAT WE HAVE PROMULGATED AT THIS TIME CAN BE FINE TUNED.
SOME CAN BE, SOME THINGS CAN BE ELIMINATED, SOME THINGS CAN BE ADDED TO IT, BUT AT LEAST THEY'LL HAVE A TOOL TO START WORKING WITH.
AND, UM, 'CAUSE IF WE TRY TO FINE TUNE EVERYTHING HERE IN POLICY, WE MAY NOT GET IT RIGHT.
BUT ONCE WE GET SOMEBODY OPERATING AND FUNCTIONING IN THAT POSITION, I THINK, UM, IT WILL BASICALLY SAY, WE DON'T NEED THIS, OR WE NEED TO ADD SOMETHING ELSE TO IT.
SO I WOULD BE MORE INCLINED TO GO AHEAD AND HIRE, USE THE POLICY THAT WE HAVE HERE, FINE TUNE THE AS MUCH AS WE CAN, BUT ALLOW THAT PERSON TO FUNCTION.
UM, AND I, IN THIS CASE HERE, I THINK PART-TIME IS PROBABLY ALL WE SHOULD HAVE.
UM, BECAUSE LIKE LARRY SAID, IF WE GOT A NEED FOR A FULL-TIME PERSON AND, AND, AND STAFF, THEN WE GOT A BIGGER PROBLEM.
MAY I, UH, MAY I JUST ADDRESS YOUR WORK'S? UH MM-HMM
YOU, UH, I, I, I THINK YOU'RE, YOU'RE RIGHT ON TARGET WITH, UH, THE THINGS YOU SAID, AND I ENVISION THIS INITIALLY STARTING OUT AS A PART-TIME POSITION.
I THINK WE PROBABLY HAVE A PERSON, UH, ON STAFF ALREADY, UH, IF WE SEARCH AROUND WHO HAS A LEVEL OF AUTHORITY, UH, AND ENOUGH EXPERIENCE, UH, WHO THE STAFF TRUSTS ALREADY AND, UH, HAS SOME EXPERIENCE, UH, DEALING WITH CONFIDENTIAL MATTERS.
UH, I THINK, ALTHOUGH I'VE HEARD THE NUMBER GO AS HIGH AS 2000, I'M NOT SURE ANYMORE HOW MANY WE HAVE.
BUT THIS IS CERTAINLY NOT A FEDERAL ORGANIZATION.
IT'S, IT'S A, IT'S A, IT'S A OPERATION, UH, THAT CAN BE CONTAINED IN A SENSE WITHOUT AN INDEPENDENT OVERSIGHT COMMISSION LOOKING AT IT.
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NEED TO HAVE SOMEONE WITHIN THE ORGANIZATION THAT PEOPLE TRUST WHO THEY CAN GO TO AND MAKE EITHER A COMPLAINT OR AN ALLEGATION OF SOME KIND OF CORRUPTION, WHICH IS ESSENTIALLY WHAT THE INTEGRITY ISSUE DEALS WITH.UM, OR MISMANAGEMENT OR, OR ANYTHING THAT IS TROUBLING ONE OF OUR EMPLOYEES.
AND I DON'T THINK IT'S GOING TO BE A FULL-TIME POSITION, UH, ALTHOUGH IT CERTAINLY COULD, IT CERTAINLY COULD DEVELOP INTO THAT.
BUT INITIALLY, I THINK WE COULD GET STARTED RATHER QUICKLY BY AN ACCRUAL OF DUTIES TO SOMEONE WHO IS ALREADY ON STAFF, UM, WHO WOULD BE, UM, ENTRUSTED WITH THIS PROGRAM IN ITS INITIAL STAGES, AND WHERE PEOPLE WOULD HAVE A COMFORT LEVEL TO KNOW THAT THAT PERSON COULD BE TRUSTED TO RECEIVE THIS KIND OF INFORMATION AND THEN SEND IT OUT FOR ACTIVITY.
DO NOT SEND IT IN FOR ACTIVITY, BUT HIRE SOMEONE ON THE OUTSIDE TO CONDUCT THE INVESTIGATION AND FILE A REPORT THAT CAN BE DISTRIBUTED TO THE, TO THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR AND TO THE LEADERSHIP OF COUNCIL FOR WHATEVER ACTION THEY DEEM APPROPRIATE GOING FORWARD.
I, UH, YES, COUNCILMAN PASSMAN, HAVING LISTENED TO EVERYBODY, UM, I SENT IN A PROPOSED POLICY THAT I THINK ADDRESSES EVERY ONE OF THE ISSUES THAT WAS BROUGHT UP THIS MORNING.
IT HAS THE PURPOSE, THE SCOPE, THE DEFINITIONS, THE PROHIBITED ACTIVITIES, HOW WE'RE GOING TO PROTECT INDIVIDUALS, THE REPORTING PROCESS, SETTING UP THE OFFICE OF INTEGRITY, UM, HA MAKING SURE IT'S INDEPENDENT.
AND I THINK IT DEALS WITH EVERY ONE OF THOSE ISSUES WE HAVE.
AND I PROPOSE THAT WE START WITH THIS AS THE PROPOSED POLICY TO SAY, DO WE AS A COUNTY BELIEVE THIS IS THE DIRECTION WE SHOULD TAKE? AND THAT WAS INCLUDED IN THE PACKET, AND THAT'S WHAT YOU'VE SEEN.
YEAH, IT'S RIGHT ON THE SCREEN HERE.
ANOTHER THING I'D, AND KIND OF IN CONCLUSION I'D LIKE TO ASK TOO IS THAT, UH, THE ADMINISTRATION CONTACTS SPARTANBURG COUNTY ABOUT THE COSTS THAT THEY HAVE INCURRED WITH THAT OUTSIDE PARTY, UM, AND HOW IT'S, HOW IT'S WORKING.
UM, I'M CURIOUS TO KNOW IF THE ELECTED OFFICIALS, UH, PARTICIPATE IN THAT WITH THE OTHER ELECTED OFFICES ARE NOT.
AND, UM, YOU KNOW, WHAT THE COSTS ACTUALLY WOULD BE FOR THAT.
SO HOW, HOW DID THEY, THEY PUT OUT AN RFP, YOU KNOW, ALL THE DETAILS.
ANY OTHER COMMENTS? I HAD SOMETHING FOR COUNCILMAN LAWSON.
I WANTED TO ASK HIM, BUT YOU GO AHEAD.
WELL, I WAS LOOKING AT WHAT MR. PASSMAN SENT IN, SO IF YOU WOULD GO TO 7.1, PLEASE.
I DON'T WANT THE, I DON'T, WELL, FIRST OF ALL, LOOK, I LIKE WHAT MR. MCALLEN SAID ABOUT IT'S AN INTEGRITY OFFICER.
IT'S NOT AN, WE'RE NOT DOING ANOTHER BUREAUCRACY.
IT'S NOT AN OFFICE OF INTEGRITY.
I DO LIKE THE SPARTANBURG WAY TO REPORT IT.
BUT THE OTHER THING IS, IF I TAKE, IF I LOOK AT WHAT'S ON THE SCREEN, IT SAYS, UH, 7.1, THE OFFICE OF INTEGRITY IS AN INDEPENDENT OFFICE CREATED BY ORDINANCE AND REPORTS DIRECTLY TO COUNTY COUNCIL.
NO, WE, AND GOING BACK TO WHAT MR. CUNNINGHAM SAID MM-HMM
WE DON'T DISCIPLINE EMPLOYEES OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
AND THEN WE PUT, IT'S NOT SUPERVISED BY THE COUNTY ADMINISTRATOR.
SO IF WE HAVE AN EXTERNAL PERSON, UH, OFFICE OFFICER OF INTEGRITY COUNTY COUNCIL GETS A REPORT AT THE END, BUT WE SHOULD NOT BE THE ONE THAT THEY COME TO ORIGINALLY.
AND WHEN YOU LOOK PAST THIS, IF YOU GO A LITTLE FURTHER, SARAH, UM, I DON'T KNOW WHO SUBMITTED ON PAGE 11.
SO I'M, I'M PAST THIS ORDINANCE.
YOU GOT A POLICY? YEAH, THERE YOU GO.
IF YOU LOOK AT WHISTLEBLOWER AS DEFINED HERE, THE PROHIBITED ACTIVITIES, THIS GOES TO WHAT MR. UH LAWSON SAID.
THIS IS A VERY CLEAR LIST TO, TO SHOW WHAT A WHISTLEBLOWER IS AND IS NOT.
SO I WOULD SUGGEST WE INCLUDE THAT IF WE'RE GONNA TAKE UP IN THE HANDBOOK, UM, JUST BECAUSE DISCRIMINATION OR HARASSMENT EMPLOYEES, THINK OF THAT A DIFFERENT WAY.
SO MS. HOWARD'S MY BOSS, AND SHE'S MEAN TO ME EVERY DAY.
IS THAT HARASSMENT, IS THAT A HOSTILE WORK ENVIRONMENT? JUST 'CAUSE SHE'S MEAN TO ME.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT MEAN TO ME MEANS THAT'S LIKE HIGH SCHOOL.
BUT, UM, ANYWAY, THIS WAS A MUCH MORE CONCISE, THIS IS VERY GOOD, THE PROHIBITED ACTIVITIES.
BUT I WOULD ENCOURAGE US AFTER THE ADMINISTRATOR LOOKS INTO SPARTANBURG, I WENT THROUGH THAT.
I LIKE THAT THEY, UM, IT'S A HOTLINE.
THEY REPORT, YOU KNOW, AND THEN IT GOES FROM THERE.
I REALLY THOUGHT THAT WAS WELL SET UP.
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THAT WOULD BE A CONSIDERATION.BUT AS MR. MCALLEN SAID, WE SHOULDN'T HAVE A MILLION OF THESE, OTHERWISE WE HAVE A REAL PROBLEM.
BUT, YOU KNOW, WHEN WE DID HAVE A WHISTLEBLOWER IN 2023 THAT KICKED A LOT OF THINGS IN ACTION, THIS WOULD'VE BEEN HELPFUL.
COUNCILMAN RES MAY, THE ONLY THING I WANNA SAY TO THAT, UM, IS DUE TO THE SENSITIVITIES OF WHAT COULD HAPPEN, AND IT MAY BE JUST A FEW, I DON'T THINK IT SHOULD BE ANYBODY ASSOCIATED WITH COUNCIL OR FORMER COUNCIL THAT DOES THIS, BECAUSE THERE'S ALLIANCES THAT HAVE BEEN MADE ALLEGIANCES, AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, KNOW TAB TALKED ABOUT SOMEBODY ON THE OUTSIDE FIELDING THIS TWO, UM, YOU KNOW, THEY HAVE TO HAVE THE, WE TALK ABOUT TRUST.
THERE'S, YOU KNOW, IF THERE'S SOMEBODY ON THE OUTSIDE THAT HAS NO DOG IN THE FIGHT, THAT'S WHERE YOU'RE GONNA GAIN THE TRUST.
I THINK SOMEONE ONLINE HAD A COMMENT.
UM, I, I REALLY THINK, IN MY OPINION, HAVING DONE THIS, UH, FOR A FEW YEARS WHERE I WAS OTHERWISE EMPLOYED, YOU HAVE TO HAVE THE FIRST STOP INTERNAL AND THEN THAT FROM THAT STOP GO EXTERNAL.
I DON'T BELIEVE IT IS A FRUITFUL EXERCISE.
I COULD BE PROVEN WRONG TO HAVE EVERYONE GIVEN THE ABILITY TO CALL SOMEBODY ON THE OUTSIDE AND START DELIVERING INFORMATION TO THEM.
I THINK THAT IT HAS TO BE DELIVERED INTERNALLY FIRST.
AND A DECISION MADE, WHETHER YOU WANNA HIRE SOMEONE ON THE OUTSIDE BECAUSE YOU HAVE A REAL ISSUE THAT NEEDS TO BE INVESTIGATED AS OPPOSED TO BEING REFERRED INTERNALLY FOR ACTION.
AND THERE'S GOING TO HAVE TO BE A PERSON WHO CAN MAKE THAT DISTINCTION BETWEEN THE NATURE OF A COMPLAINT AND THE NATURE OF AN ALLEGATION OF EITHER AN INTEGRITY VIOLATION, SOME CORRUPTION OR OTHERWISE, UH, ACTIVITY THAT, THAT NEEDS TO BE INVESTIGATED RATHER THAN REFERRED TO FOR A MANAGEMENT CONSULT.
SO MY FIRST STOP IS INTERNAL AND THAT PERSON REACHES EXTERNALLY.
THAT PERSON COULD, COULD REACH OUT TO THIS, UH, ORGANIZATION THAT HAS BEEN IDENTIFIED AS HAVING EXPERIENCE IN THIS FIELD.
BUT I DON'T WANT TO SEE EVERYBODY GIVEN THE IMMEDIATE OPPORTUNITY TO BE THAT PERSON WHO CALLS THOSE PEOPLE AND STARTS RUNNING UP A BILL WITH A COMPLAINT THAT'S BEING FILED THAT WE HAVEN'T EVEN HEARD ABOUT AND DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT.
UM, GOING BACK TO DAVID'S COMMENT ABOUT INTERNAL AUDIT, UM, I, MARK, I KNOW YOU REMEMBER CHRIS HERON WANTED TO DO THAT WHEN HE WAS ON COUNCIL.
UM, AND THAT'S ANOTHER ASPECT OF THIS THAT, UM, DOWN WE, THAT LITERALLY GOT KICKED DOWN THE, DOWN THE ROAD.
UM, BUT CHRIS TRIED TO WORK REAL HARD ON THAT, BUT I THINK THAT'S ANOTHER PIECE OF THE, OF, OF THIS THAT COULD BE LOOKED AT BY THE ADMINISTRATION.
UM, SO COUNCILMAN LAWSON, THIS IS YOUR COMMITTEE.
DO YOU WANNA WORK WITH, I MEAN, I'M ASKING YOU, WILL YOU WORK WITH, UH, MIKE MOORE FOR A LIST OF THINGS THAT CAME OUT OF THIS WORKSHOP? AND THERE, I KNOW THAT MS. BROCK HAS KEPT MINUTES AND WE'LL HAVE MINUTES FROM IT OF ALL THE COMMENTS, UM, IN TIME FOR YOUR NEXT FINANCE MEETING AND ADMINISTRATION MEETING.
I'M SURE WE COULD WORK SOMETHING OUT AND, AND I'D PROBABLY, UM, UH, ASK, UH, LARRY TO ALSO PARTICIPATE AND HELP, HELP AND WHOEVER ELSE, UH, IS LOOKING AT THAT.
BUT, UM, YEAH, I, I WASN'T EXPECTING THIS TO GO BACK TO, TO THE FINANCE COMMITTEE, BUT I'M HAPPY TO DO IT.
SO AGAIN, UH, WE'LL, WE'LL FIGURE THAT OUT.
WELL, I THINK, I THINK THERE'S A LOT OF WORK TO BE DONE.
I, I THINK WE'VE MADE A LOT OF PROGRESS TODAY.
UM, BUT I'D FEEL MORE COMFORTABLE, I THINK IF IT IN THAT WAY HR AND THE ADMINISTRATION HAS TIME TO GATHER SOME THINGS BACK FOR THE FINANCE COMMITTEE IS, UH, WE DON'T VOTE AND WORKSHOP, BUT IS THAT A NOD AHEAD? KIND OF SOUND LIKE A GOOD POINT.
COUNCILMAN MCALLEN, YOU'RE ON MUTE.
LARRY, WITH REGARD TO YOUR REQUEST OF A FEW WEEKS AGO, YOU WANTED SOME COMMENTS, I SENT COMMENTS IN AND I, I, UH, SAID I WAS GOING TO DISTRIBUTE THEM TO COUNCIL.
AND I SAW THAT AN ACTION WAS TAKEN WHERE IT WAS, UH, SENT OUT.
IT WAS BY ME, BUT IT WAS CERTAINLY OKAY WITH ME.
UH, I ONLY RESPONDED TO, UH, THE WHISTLEBLOWER, UM, LANGUAGE THAT ALREADY EXISTED BY FOCUSING ESSENTIALLY ON SECTION 1.6.
AND, UH, IT WAS A VERY SHORT NOTE, BUT THAT PRETTY MUCH SUMMARIZES, I THINK, WHERE I STAND WITH REGARD TO HOW I THINK THIS SHOULD BE ADDRESSED.
AND, UH, I WAS JUST MENTIONING IT AGAIN IN
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THE EVENT THAT SOMEONE WANTED TO REFER TO IT AND SEE WHAT I SAID.IT'S RATHER SHORT AND TO THE POINT.
AND I THINK I ELABORATED ON IT HERE TODAY.
AND MARK, I ACCEPT YOUR INVITATION, WHICH WAS KINDLY EXTENDED TO, UH, ASSIST YOU.
AND I WILL REMIND YOU BY THE WAY, UH, WITH, UH, WITH A VERY GOOD HEART THAT IT'S FINANCE AND ADMINISTRATION, I THINK IS THE NAME OF YOUR COMMITTEE.
SO IT MAY NOT BE A FINANCE ISSUE, BUT IT CERTAINLY IS AN ADMINISTRATION.
MS. TABER, IF, UH, MS. PROC, IF YOU COULD PUT UP THE SPARTANBURG SITE, WE'RE JUST USING THIS 'CAUSE I DELVED INTO IT.
I DON'T KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE WENT INTO IT.
I, SO IF YOU CLICK ON, UM, I WAS ON THE PART THAT SAID FRAUDULENT OR UNETHICAL BEHAVIOR, BECAUSE THEN IF YOU GO FURTHER IN, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU CAN GET THE, IT TAKES YOU TO NX.
SO JUST PUT IN ON PICK A COUNTY, WHO CARES WHAT IT IS.
AND SELECT THE WHATEVER REGION THREE.
THIS WAS THE PART I LIKED RIGHT HERE.
SO YOU KNOW HOW WE TALKED ABOUT, WE DON'T WANT PEOPLE TO SAY, MY BOSSES MEAN TO ME, THIS EXPLAINS IF YOU CLICK ON DISCRIMINATION, WHAT IS DISCRIMINATION BY LAW? WHAT IS EMPLOYEE RELATIONS? AND I THINK THIS HELPS THE EMPLOYEE DECIDE WHERE AM I GOING WITH THIS? WHICH ONE OF THESE CATEGORIES AM I IN? AND THEN THEY CAN, IT CAN GO FROM THERE.
BUT I THOUGHT THIS WAS REALLY GOOD.
AND I KNOW IT'S A COMPANY AND THERE'S PROBABLY OTHER COMPANIES, BUT THIS IS REALLY GOOD TO GUIDE THE EMPLOYEE.
UH, DO I REALLY HAVE A WHISTLEBLOWER? IS IT JUST, YOU KNOW, MS. HOWARD'S MEAN TO ME TODAY? MM-HMM
WHAT IS IT? WHAT IS DISCRIMINATION? THIS WAS REALLY GOOD.
AND ANY LAST COMMENTS? THIS IS A RECORD.
YOU KNOW, IF I AM AN EMPLOYEE AND MY SUPERVISOR, UM, UM, IS MEAN TO ME OR BITE ME, AS LONG AS I CAN BITE HER BACK OR HIM BACK, I'M FINE.
UM, IS THERE ANY, MR. MOORE, YOU HAVE ANY COMMENTS OR, OH, I'M SORRY.
YEAH, I'M JUST GONNA CLOSE IT OUT WITH THIS.
YOU KNOW, ANYBODY WHO'S SPENT ANY TIME IN MANAGEMENT UNDERSTANDS THAT IT'S A FLUID SITUATION AND THAT THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS TO BE CONSIDERED.
AND IF THERE IS A BAD SITUATION THAT EXISTS WITH REGARD TO MANAGEMENT TECHNIQUE, THE MANAGEMENT ABOVE THAT PERSON NEEDS TO HEAR ABOUT THAT.
IF THEY'RE, IF IT'S SO BLATANT THAT IT'S UPSETTING PEOPLE IN THE WORKFORCE AND AFFECTING THE CULTURE.
SO IT'S NOT ANYTHING THAT SHOULD BE IGNORED, BUT IT CERTAINLY DOESN'T HAVE TO RISE TO THE LEVEL OF A WHISTLEBLOWER PROTECTION.
IT COULD JUST BE SOMETHING THAT IS BROUGHT FORWARD FOR PEOPLE TO CONSIDER ON HOW THEY WOULD LIKE TO DEAL WITH THE SITUATION.
AND UH, UH, I THINK PEOPLE WHO ARE IN MANAGEMENT POSITIONS SPEND AN AWFUL LOT OF TIME JUST KEEPING THE SHIP LEVEL RATHER THAN IN TURBULENT WATER.
AND THAT'S ESSENTIALLY WHAT WE'RE OFFERING PEOPLE HERE IS AN OPPORTUNITY TO, TO MAKE COMPLAINTS AND THEN A DECISION WOULD BE MADE INTERNALLY WHETHER IT NEEDS TO GO OUTSIDE OR INSIDE FOR FURTHER FOLLOW UP.
AND I THINK THAT DISTINCTION IS EASILY REACHED.
MR. MOORE? UH, YES, MADAM CHAIR, UM, NOTES MY TAKEAWAYS HERE.
WE WILL, UH, GET WITH SPARTANBURG AND GET SOME MORE DETAILS ON, ON HOW THEY'VE IMPLEMENTED THAT, HOW THEY WENT ABOUT GETTING RFP AND FUNDING AND THOSE TYPE OF QUESTIONS.
AND THEN MY UNDERSTANDING IS THIS WILL COME TO THE FINANCE COMMITTEE AS A DRAFT RESOLUTION WITH THESE PROPOSED CHANGES IN EDITS.
IS THAT FOR THE POLICY, FOR THE, UM, POLICY? YES, THAT'S MY UNDERSTANDING.
AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE GONNA PROCEED.
AND SO THAT'LL BE ON THE AGENDA.
WE WILL WORK WITH MR. LAWSON, CHAIR LAWSON ON THAT AND, AND ITEM AND, OKAY.
COUNCILMAN CUNNINGHAM? YES, SIR.
YEAH, LARRY SAID IT EARLIER AND HE JUST REITERATED IT AGAIN.
I THINK THAT IS ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT PARTS OF THIS ENTIRE POLICY BECAUSE WE DIDN'T EVEN KNOW THE EXACT DEFINITION UNTIL WHISTLEBLOWER, UNTIL WE STARTED DIVING DEEPER INTO IT.
BUT WE KNOW THAT WE CAN USE THIS AS A TOOL TO BETTER OUR COUNTY.
AND SO I DO BELIEVE HE'S RIGHT.
WE CAN'T JUST LET THESE COMPLAINTS DIE EVEN IF THEY DON'T MEET THE CRITERIA OF A WHISTLEBLOWER, BECAUSE IT'S OUR JOB TO CONTINUE TO COACH AND MAKE PEOPLE BETTER IN THIS COUNTY.
AND THAT GIVES OUR ADMINISTRATIVE TEAM THE OPPORTUNITY TO DO THAT.
SO THAT INFORMATION'S STILL VALUABLE AND WE NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT INFORMATION GETS PUSHED OUT TO THE DEPARTMENTS FOR THAT.
THAT'S WHERE MR. MOORE SHOULD GO IN AND WORK WITH THE LEADER OF THAT DEPARTMENT AND FIGURE OUT HOW TO MAKE
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THIS BETTER OR COACH IT OR IF WE DO HAVE AN ISSUE IN THERE, BECAUSE WE STILL DON'T WANT THAT TYPE OF WORK ENVIRONMENT.OUR GOAL IS TO STILL BE SUCCESSFUL AND BE A PLACE PEOPLE WANNA WORK.
UH, I WANNA THANK ALL OF COUNCIL ON A FRIDAY MORNING TO BE HERE.
THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT TO ALL OF US AND I APPRECIATE IT.
AND IF THERE'S NO OTHER BUSINESS FOR THE WORKSHOP, WE ARE ADJOURNED.