* This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting. [00:00:01] IT IS [I. CALL TO ORDER ] A CALL TO ORDER FOR THE DECEMBER HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION MEETING. IT'S WEDNESDAY, DECEMBER 3RD, 6:00 PM CAN I GET A ROLL CALL PLEASE? CHAIRMAN EVAN GOODWIN. HERE. VICE CHAIRMAN JOE AL. HERE. COMMISSIONER CARLY THA FRAZIER. HERE. COMMISSIONER JIM HESS. HERE. COMMISSIONER TIM CROW. HERE. COMMISSIONER DEBBIE WONDER HERE. COMMISSIONER LISA SCO HERE. OKAY. UH, NOTICE REGARDING ADJOURNMENT. [III. NOTICE REGARDING ADJOURNMENT ] THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION WILL NOT HEAR NEW ITEMS AFTER 9:30 PM UNLESS AUTHORIZED BY MAJORITY VOTE OF THE COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT ITEMS WHICH HAVE NOT BEEN HEARD BEFORE 9:30 PM MAY BE CONTINUED TO THE NEXT REGULAR MEETING OR A SPECIAL MEETING DATE IS DETERMINED BY THE COMMISSION MEMBERS ADOPTION OF THE MINUTES. [IV. ADOPTION OF MINUTES ] I DUNNO IF WE ACCEPT. DO WE HAVE A SECOND? SECOND. IS THERE ANY DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. ANY OPPOSED? OKAY. THE MINUTES ARE ADOPTED. DO WE HAVE ANY PUBLIC COMMENT OR [V. PUBLIC COMMENT ] OLD BUSINESS? WE DO HAVE PUBLIC COMMENT. OKAY, GREAT. NORMA COOLEY. GOOD EVENING. GOOD EVENING. UM, I'M HERE ABOUT THE GARFIELD WAY. I'M AT 15 WOLF STREET. I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH HIM BUILDING WHATEVER, BUT HE KEEP ENCROACHING ON MY PROPERTY. I HAVE SURVEYED MY PROPERTY SEVERAL TIMES, BUT HE KEEP ENCROACHING. HE WILL NOT TAKE DOWN THE FENCE THAT HE PUT UP THERE. I ASKED HIM TO TAKE IT DOWN. I WENT TO THE TOWN SEVERAL TIMES ASKING HIM TO TAKE IT DOWN. ALSO, WHERE HE'S TRYING TO BUILD AT IS ON MY PROPERTY. HE'S ENCROACHING. I I HAD IT SURVEYED. HE WILL MOVE THE FLAGS. HE WILL PULL UP EVERYTHING AND HE DISREGARD WHAT I HAVE TO SAY. I WENT TO THE TOWN AGAIN. THEY TOLD ME IF I BRING THE SURVEY, I HAVE THE SURVEY. HE'S STILL ENCROACHING ON MY PROPERTY AND I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY. AND HE WANTS THE BILL, BUT IT'S ON MY PROPERTY AND I, I AM LIKE FED UP TO HERE WITH HIM, KEEP ENCROACHING ON MY PROPERTY. HE'S SAYING IT'S HIS, BUT IT'S NOT HIS. WE CALL THE POLICE. HE GIVING THEM SOME KIND OF, UM, SURVEY THAT HE DID AND I HAVE MY SURVEY, BUT THEY'RE TELLING ME THEY'RE GOING BY WHAT HIS SURVEY SAY. I HAVE MY SURVEY DOCUMENTED IN BEAUFORT COUNTY. THEY TELL ME TO COME HERE IF THERE'S A PROBLEM. AND I'M COMING HERE BECAUSE HE KEEPS ENCROACHING. EVERY TIME I GET A SURVEY, HE'LL PULL THE FLAG UP WHERE THE, UM, STONE WAS. HE PULLED THAT UP. HE'LL COVER IT UP, COVER IT UP. I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY I KEEP COMING HERE TO ASK Y'ALL TO PLEASE HAVE HIM STOP ENCROACHING ON MY PROPERTY SAYING THAT HE WANNA MAKE THE COMMUNITY BEAUTIFUL. BUT IT'S ON MY HALF, NOT HIS HALF. HE'S TRYING TO GET SOMETHING THAT IS NOT HIS AND I DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY THEY WON'T DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT. SO I AM AGAINST THIS. I DON'T MIND HIM BUILDING, BUT NOT ON MY PROPERTY. SO I'M ASKING CAN SOMEBODY PLEASE DO SOMETHING SO HE CAN STOP INFRINGING ON MY PROPERTY? THANK YOU. THANK YOU. CAN YOU STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR RECORD, PLEASE? NORMA COOLEY. 15 WHARF STREET, BUT MAILING ADDRESS PO O BOX 8 7 4 BLUFFTON, SOUTH CAROLINA 2 9 9 1 0. THANK YOU. OKAY. DO WE HAVE ANY OLD BUSINESS? [VII. 1. 5 Garfields Way: A request by Scott Middleton of Southern Coastal Homes (Applicant) on behalf of 5 Garfields LLC (Owner), for review of a Certificate of Appropriateness-Historic District to allow the construction of a new 2-story 2,621 SF main house (an Additional Building Type) and a 1-story 264 SF carriage house at 5 Garfields Way. The property is located in the Old Town Historic District and zoned Neighborhood General-Historic District (NG-HD). (COFA 10-25-019966) (Staff - Charlotte Moore) ] NEW BUSINESS? WE'RE GONNA GO TO FIVE GARFIELD'S WAY. GOOD EVENING. WE HAVE ONE ITEM ON TONIGHT'S AGENDA. FIVE GARFIELD'S WAY. THE APPLICANT, SCOTT MILTON, OF SOUTHERN COASTAL HOMES IS REPRESENTING THE PROPERTY OWNER FIVE FIELDS'S WAY LLC, UH, FOR, UH, APPROVAL OF A KOFA TO ALLOW THE CONSTRUCTION OF A TWO STORY MAIN STRUCTURE, WHICH IS AN ADDITIONAL BUILDING TYPE OF APPROXIMATELY 2,648 SQUARE FEET. AS WELL AS A ONE STORY DETACHED CARRIAGE HOUSE OF APPROXIMATELY, UH, 264 SQUARE FEET. LOCATED AT FIVE GARFIELD'S WAY IN THE [00:05:01] MOSS OAK SUBDIVISION WITHIN OLD TOWN. THE PROPERTY IS ZONE NEIGHBORHOODS GENERAL AND YOU SEE THE LOCATION HERE. UM, THIS IS A VERY SMALL LOT SUBDIVISION GARFIELD'S WAY. IT'S LOCATED IN THE NORTHEAST CORNER, UH, WAR STREET AND LAWRENCE STREET. UM, IT'S NOT FULLY VISIBLE, UM, FROM LAWRENCE STREET. IT'S A VERY SMALL PARCEL AS YOU SEE 0.16 ACRES. HERE'S A PHOTO. THE PROPERTY IS UNDEVELOPED RIGHT NOW. THAT, UH, ROAD, THIS IS ACTUALLY, UH, GARFIELD'S WAY THAT YOU SEE HERE. IT'S A, UM, AN UNPAVED ROAD AT THE TIME FOR THE TIME BEING. UH, HERE IS THE SITE AND THE LANDSCAPE PLAN. AND AS YOU CAN SEE, THE HOUSE, UH, IS GOING TO BE FACING GARFIELD'S WAY THAT YOU SEE HERE. IT WILL INCLUDE THE CARRIAGE HOUSE OR THE CARPORT STRUCTURE, WHICH WILL BE DETACHED IN THE REAR OF THE PROPERTY IS, UH, A POOL AS WELL AS A STOOP ALONG THE BACK OF THE HOUSE WITH STAIRS LEADING DOWN TO THAT POOL. THE, THE PROPERTY'S VERY SHALLOW AND IT'S NOT VERY NOTICEABLE HERE, BUT IT, UH, THE PORCH SLIGHTLY ENCROACHES INTO THE REAR YARD SETBACK AND THE APPLICANT WILL TAKE CARE OF THAT BY REDESIGNING, UH, THE PORCH TO TAKE IT OUTTA THAT SETBACK. AND YOU CAN SEE ON THE RIGHT THE LANDSCAPE PLAN. THERE IS, UM, SOME EXTENSIVE LANDSCAPING THAT WILL BE PROVIDED. AND HERE'S THAT REAR YARD ENCROACHMENT THAT I MENTIONED, THAT AREA IN YELLOW, VERY SLIGHT ENCROACHMENT, BUT INSTEAD OF, UH, PURSUING A VARIANCE, THE APPLICANT WILL REDESIGN THE PORCH TO TAKE IT OUT OF THE REAR YARD. UM, THE HOUSE THAT YOU SEE HERE, IT'S ACROSS GABLE, UH, WITH ARCHITECTURAL SHINGLES. IT'S LOCATED ON A RAISED FOUNDATION WITH TABBY. UH, THE APPLICANT UH, INDICATED THAT THEY WERE GONNA PROVIDE SOME RECESS HERE, BUT IT'S STILL, UH, TABBY. THAT'S SOMETHING THAT WE MIGHT WANNA TALK ABOUT THIS EVENING. UH, FOR THE MOST PART, THE UH, MATERIALS ARE HARDY, INCLUDING HORIZONTAL LAP SIDING BOARD AND BATTEN, UH, TWO OVER ONE VINYL WINDOWS. UH, DOORS WILL BE WOOD AND LEFT ELEVATION YOU SEE HERE, INCLUDING THAT PORCH THAT I TALKED ABOUT SLIGHTLY WITHIN THAT REAR YARD SETBACK. THEY DID PROVIDE SOME UPDATED ELEVATIONS TODAY AND I DO WANNA INDICATE THAT THEY PROVIDED THIS TO US SO THAT YOU CAN SEE THROUGH THE SCREEN PORCH SO THAT YOU CAN SEE THAT LEFT ELEVATION FULLY THE RIGHT ELEVATION, INCLUDING ONE SERVICE YARD AND THEN THE REAR ELEVATION. I MENTIONED PREVIOUSLY THAT THERE'S GOING TO BE A STOOP ALONG THE BACK OF THE HOUSE. IT'S ABOUT FOUR FEET IN DEPTH. UH, IT'S REALLY NOT SUBSTANTIAL ENOUGH TO BE A PATIO. UM, AND IT WILL ALLOW THE DOORS TO BE OPEN AND, UH, FOR THE RESIDENTS TO STEP DOWN INTO THE BACKYARD. THE CARRIAGE HOUSE WILL MATCH THE, UH, BAIN HOUSE IN MATERIALS AND APPEARANCE. AND, UH, SO I'M GOING THROUGH THIS SOMEWHAT QUICKLY HERE. UH, THE REVIEW CRITERIA, THERE ARE FOUR THAT HAVE TO BE APPLIED WHEN WE REVIEW A COFA. UH, THIS IS CONSISTENT WITH THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. UM, THE, UH, CRITERIA THREE AND FOUR WILL BE MET PROVIDED THAT THEY COMPLY WITH ANY CONDITIONS AND STAFF HAS IDENTIFIED SOME CONDITIONS. UH, THIS EVENING. THE REAR YARD SETBACK, AS I MENTIONED, WILL BE, UH, TAKEN CARE OF BY TAKING OUT THAT PORCH FROM THE SETBACK, THE LEFT ELEVATION, UM, THEY HAVE PROVIDED AND THEY'RE SHOWING THE PORCH. THEY HAVE REMOVED THE SCREENING SO THAT YOU CAN SEE WHAT'S GOING ON THERE ALONG THAT SIDE. UM, THE, UH, PREVIOUSLY THEY HAD IDENTIFIED SOME ALUMINUM FRAMING FOR THE PORCH ON THAT LEFT SIDE, BUT THAT HAS BEEN ADDRESSED. IT WILL BE WOOD, THE WALL SECTION. THERE WERE SOME DETAILS THAT NEEDED TO BE UPDATED. SOME OF THAT HAS BEEN, UM, INCLUDED WITH THE, UH, INFORMATION I WAS GIVEN TODAY. BUT THERE STILL NEEDS TO BE SOME, UH, ADDITIONAL DETAILS. THERE IS A FENCE ALONG THE REAR PROPERTY LINE, A SIX FOOT PRIVACY FENCE. THE UDO REQUIRES THAT, UM, FENCE BE NO MORE THAN 75% OPAQUE. THEY ARE SHOWING A, UH, A DOG EAR FENCE RIGHT NOW, UM, WHICH WOULD NOT, WHICH IS NOT TRANSPARENT. UM, SO THEY ARE PROPOSING, UM, POSSIBLY MOVING THE BOARDS APART SLIGHTLY ABOUT AN INCH AND THREE QUARTERS. UM, SO THAT THERE WILL BE SOME TRANSPARENCY. UM, RICK WILL BE SAVANNAH GRAY THAT WASN'T IDENTIFIED ON THE PLAN SET THAT, UH, WAS, UH, PROVIDED, PUBLISHED, UH, WITH THE AGENDA, BUT IT WILL BE SAVANNAH GRAY. [00:10:01] AND THEN THE TREE REMOVAL PERMIT IS A TYPICAL COMMENT THAT WILL NEED TO BE PROVIDED, UM, BECAUSE THERE ARE SOME TREES THERE THAT ARE 14 INCHES IN DIAMETER AT BREAST HEIGHT. SO THOSE ARE THE FINDINGS OF STAFF. I'M GLAD TO GO BACK THROUGH AND LOOK AT ANY ELEVATIONS, UM, THAT YOU MAY HAVE QUESTIONS ABOUT OR ANY OF THE MATERIALS. AND THAT, THAT IS MY PRESENTATION. CHARLOTTE, DO WE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR STAFF? CAN WE SURVEY ISSUE? I KNOW THAT'S NOT OUR PURVIEW, BUT I WANTED TO ASK ABOUT WHERE THAT IS WITH THE TOWN. YEAH, THERE'S BEEN SOME ONGOING ISSUES AND I CAN, UM, WE'VE GOT THE INFORMATION AND I CAN CONTACT, UM, THE WOMAN WHO SPOKE AND WE'LL, WE'LL ADDRESS THAT FOR YOU. EXCUSE ME. WE'LL, WE'LL ADDRESS THAT FOR YOU. WE WERE ASKING ABOUT THE SURVEY IS THAT BEING IS GONNA BE ADDRESSED CHARLOTTE. I I KNOW THAT WE DON'T TECHNICALLY HAVE PURVIEW OVER THAT, BUT IT'S KIND OF CONCERNING TO HEAR ENCROACHMENT THERE AND WE DIDN'T SEE ANY PLAN OR EVEN THOUGH IT WAS A SMALL SLITHER BUT ENCROACHING INTO THE SETBACKS AND SOMEONE SAYING, WELL, WE'LL FIX IT, BUT IT'S NOT BEING SHOWN TO US HERE TONIGHT. THAT, SORRY, I WAS, UH, WASN'T PREPARED TO, UM, ANSWER THAT QUESTION. I WANTED TO SEE WHERE 15 WHARF STREET IS. SO APPARENTLY IT'S IN THE REAR YARD HERE, BUT AS YOU CAN SEE THE FENCE OF, UH, THAT'S PROPOSED, THE DOG WOULD, THE DOG EAR FENCE WILL NOT BE ON THE PROPERTY LINE. AND SO THAT WILL BE CORRECTED. WHERE'S THE PROPERTY LINE? UH, RIGHT HERE YOU CAN SEE THE, THE LONG DASH FROM THE DOTS. AND WHERE'S THE FENCE? IS THAT, IS THAT SET AND STONE LIKE IS THAT WHAT YOU HAVE OR IS THERE LIKE A, IS THERE SOME SORT OF DISAGREEMENT ON THE PROPERTY LINE IS, I BELIEVE IT WAS THE PREVIOUS OWNER THAT THERE WAS AN ISSUE WITH THE FENCE. OKAY. BUT A NEW FENCE IS PROPOSED AND THAT WILL NOT BE ON, THAT WILL NOT ENCROACH INTO THE NEIGHBOR'S PROPERTY. SO THEY'RE GONNA REMOVE THAT FENCE THAT IS ENCROACHING AND BUILD A FENCE WITH 75% YOU CAN SEE THROUGH, UM, ON, WITHIN THE CORRECT PROPERTY LINE. RIGHT? CORRECT. AND, AND THE APPLICANT MAY BE ABLE TO BETTER ANSWER THAT. I, I DON'T KNOW THE WHOLE HISTORY, THE BACKGROUND, UM, OF THAT FENCE. CAN WE HAVE THE APPLICANT COME FORWARD? YES. I WAS JUST GONNA ADDRESS THE SITUATION. YEAH. OKAY. I'M, IF YOU CAN JUST COME HERE, STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS PLEASE. MY NAME IS PAULA STEWART. I AM THE HOMEOWNER OF, UH, THE PROPERTY OWNER OF FIVE GARFIELD'S WAY. SORRY TO MEET YOU UNDER THESE CIRCUMSTANCES. UM, WE DO, I DID, UM, PURCHASE THE LOT EARLIER THIS YEAR AND UH, THERE WAS NO SURVEY AT THE TIME I PAID FOR A SURVEY. UM, I WAS NOT AWARE OF ANY OF THESE ISSUES UNTIL JUST MOMENTS AGO. UM, BUT WE DO HAVE A FORMAL SURVEY THAT IS, I BELIEVE ENCLOSED OR ATTACHED WITH THE DOCUMENTATION. UH, THIS IS ALL NEW INFORMATION TO ME. THERE IS CURRENTLY NOT A FENCE ABUTTING MY PROPERTY. THERE IS A LOT OF VEGETATION AND I, IT'S OVERGROWN AND I DO NOT ACTUALLY KNOW WHAT EXISTS BETWEEN OUR PROPERTIES ARE HOA DOCUMENTS THAT WERE, UM, SUBMITTED BY GARFIELD AND NANCY MOSS TO THE TOWN OF BLUFFTON IN 2022. THERE IS AN HOA, THIS DEVELOPMENT IS CALLED MOSS OAKS AND UM, IT DOES STATE IN THE HOA DOCUMENTS THAT WE HAVE TO HAVE A ALL OF THE LOTS 'CAUSE THEY HAVE SUBDIVIDED MANY LOTS, UH, OF WHICH THIS IS JUST ONE. THEY MUST HAVE A SIX FOOT, WHAT I CALL A STOCKADE FENCE. UM, WHICH I HAVE LEARNED TODAY IS IN CONFLICT WITH THE TOWN'S, UH, REQUIREMENTS. SO I DON'T PERSONALLY KNOW AS THE HOMEOWNER HOW TO PROCEED WITH THAT, BUT OBVIOUSLY I'LL DO WHATEVER I NEED TO DO. UH, BUT I, YOU KNOW, I'M BETWEEN A ROCK AND A HARD PLACE WITH THE HOA REQUIREMENT VERSUS THE TOWN'S REQUIREMENT. AND I WILL LOOK TO YOUR GUIDANCE FOR THAT. SO THAT'S WHAT I HAVE TO SAY ABOUT THE LOT AND ABOUT THE FENCE. YES, GO AHEAD. QUESTION FOR CHARLOTTE. THIS THING [00:15:01] IS LIKE DOUBLE YOU HEAR YOURSELF TALKING. HELP ME WITH THIS. I THOUGHT THAT THE HEIGHT WAS FIVE FEET, NO TALLER THAN FIVE FEET. I THOUGHT WE HAD LOOKED AT THAT IN THE PAST. IS IT SIX FEET OR FIVE FEET IN THE REAR YARD? IT CAN BE SIX FEET. IT CAN BE SIX FEET, CORRECT. OKAY. UM, THAT WAS MY ONE QUESTION AND I'M THINKING MRS. COOLEY WAS TALKING ABOUT THE FORMER OWNER KEPT PICKING UP THE STAKES. THE, I, I BELIEVE SO. YOU CAN'T SEE IT HERE, BUT IT SAYS SOMETHING ABOUT AN ENCROACHMENT AND I THINK THAT IS A PREVIOUS ISSUE, BUT THAT WILL BE CORRECTED. I MEAN, THIS FENCE THAT IS NOW PROPOSED ON THE REAR PROPERTY LINE WILL BE ON THE APPLICANT'S PROPERTY AND NOT ON MS. COOLEY'S PROPERTY. AND THEY SEEM LIKE THEY JUST MET UNDER VERY ODD CIRCUMSTANCES. AND, AND I DO KNOW THE PERSON WHO'S CAUSING THIS ANGST. UM, AND I HOPE THEY DO CAN MEET OUT THERE AND SEE WHERE, WHERE THEY BOTH AGREE WHERE THE, THE STAKES ARE. BECAUSE IF IT DOES, IF YOU'RE USING A, IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU'RE USING A SITE PLAN, THIS LAND, THIS LOT OWNER HAS PROVIDED. CORRECT. UM, SO MAYBE IT WORKS WITH THE OTHER ONE. I CAN TRULY UNDERSTAND THE ISSUES SHE'S HAD IN THE PAST, UM, AND CAN UNDERSTAND THAT THINGS PROBABLY WERE TAKEN. SO I JUST DON'T, BECAUSE IT'S SUCH A HOUSE FIT ON A LOT, YOU DON'T, THERE'S NO ROOM IF THIS IS EVEN WRONG, THERE'S NO ROOM FOR, FOR HELP. THAT'S MY CONCERN. IF WE ABSOLUTELY INCLUDE A CONDITION AT SOME WHEN WE GET TO A VOTING POINT, UM, THAT IF THERE IS A CHANGE IN THE SURVEY, WE'D WANT IT TO COME BACK BEFORE US. BECAUSE IF THE SURVEY IS WRONG, THEN THE STEPBACK ARE WRONG AND IT'S, I WOULDN'T ACTUALLY FEEL COMFORTABLE KNOWING THAT THERE ARE TWO SEPARATE SURVEYS OUT THERE NOT SHOWING THE ACTUAL LINE BECAUSE THEY'RE AT THAT POINT, WE GONNA APPROVE IT. WE CAN ONLY APPROVE WHAT'S IN FRONT OF US. NOW. I UNDERSTAND THAT, YEAH. WHAT'S IN FRONT OF US. BUT THERE IS, THERE IS A A, A DISPUTE HERE. UM, UNFORTUNATELY THE CURRENT LANDOWNER WALKED INTO SOMETHING UNBEKNOWNST TO THEM, BUT TO ME, I WOULD FEEL THAT THEY WOULD NEED TO GET THAT TAKEN CARE OF TO MAKE SURE, ONE, BECAUSE THEN WE'RE LOOKING AT SETBACKS CHANGING, LOOKING AT A WHOLE LOT OF DIFFERENT THINGS. CHANGING IF THIS LINE ISN'T WHERE IT'S SUPPOSED BE, AND I DON'T KNOW THAT IT'S, THAT THE LINE'S INCORRECT. IT COULD HAVE BEEN JUST THE FENCE THAT HAD BEEN THERE PREVIOUSLY WAS NOT PLACED IN THE CORRECT LOCATION. CAN WE MAKE IT ADDITIONAL? AND IF IT'S THE LINE WHERE IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE, IT'S COMPLETELY NO, WHICH RICHARDSON WAS HERE TONIGHT AND THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL. HER, HER PROPERTY IS MUCH WIDER THAN THIS CORRECT PROP. IT KEEPS, IT IS. IF YOU LOOK AT YOUR OVERVIEW MAP, I THINK SHOWED THAT, YEAH. SLIDES, I THINK PAGE 29 ON THE PACKET. THANK YOU. IF I CAN BRING THAT UP. ASK CHARLOTTE. CAN I ASK YOU A QUESTION WHILE YOU'RE GOING THROUGH THAT OR DO YOU WANNA FIND IT FIRST? UM, SURE YOU CAN GO AHEAD. IT'S REALLY MORE OF A, IT'S MORE OF A WHO OVERRULES WHAT DOES THE TOWN'S UDO TAKE PRECEDENCE OVER? UH, SMALL SUBDIVISIONS, HOA REQUIREMENT REGARDING, UH, SEMI OPAQUE OR SOME OPACITY IN THE FENCE. SO WE USUALLY, UM, WELL THE, THE TYPICAL THING IS TO FOLLOW WHATEVER, UM, IF THERE ARE COVENANTS FOR A DEVELOPMENT LIKE TABBY ROADS OR STOCK FARM, WE FOLLOW THOSE COVENANTS. BUT I DON'T HAVE THE COVENANTS FOR UH, MOSS OAKS, SO I AM NOT CERTAIN WHAT THEY ARE. WE DO HAVE, UM, A LETTER OF APPROVAL FROM THE POA OR THE HOA, BUT I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW THE COVENANTS. YEAH, A PASSAGE REQUIREMENT. I FEEL LIKE THIS HAS MAYBE COME UP IN HERE, OR AT LEAST MAYBE IN MY OFFICE. IT'S 25% MINIMUM OPACITY AND OPACITY IS SOLIDNESS. SO A HUNDRED PERCENT SOLID FENCE WOULD MEET THE MINIMUM REQUIREMENT OF 25. I THOUGHT THAT THE INTENT OF THE 25% OPACITY IS TO PREVENT LIKE A CHAIN LINK FENCE KIND OF SITUATION WHERE IT'S MOSTLY SEEN. YEAH, YOU'RE CORRECT. AND I MAY HAVE REVERSED THAT. UM, IT'S, IT'S WRITTEN KIND OF CONFUSING 'CAUSE I HAVE IT, IT IT IS NOT WRITTEN WELL. UM, I HAVE SEEN DOG YOUR FENCES ELSEWHERE. SO HERE'S THE PROPERTY, IT'S IN YELLOW FIVE GARFIELD'S WAY. HERE'S 15 WHARF STREET IN THE REAR. AND SO, UM, A COMPLETELY OPAQUE FENCE, [00:20:02] HONESTLY IN THIS LOCATION WOULD NOT SEEM INAPPROPRIATE. AND IF THE INTERPRETATION, HOW YOU'VE INTERPRETED THE UDO, UM, AND THAT'S CORRECT. UM, IT, IT CERTAINLY COULD BE THE SIX FOOT DOG EAR FENCE AND THAT WOULD BE FINE. BUT, UM, SO HERE'S THE PROPERTY LINE SEVEN AND FIVE, UH, GARFIELD'S WAY A BUTT 15 WHARF STREET. AND I BELIEVE THERE MIGHT HAVE BEEN A FENCE HERE AT SOUTHERN GARFIELD'S WAY THAT PERHAPS CAME DOWN AND CROSSED THIS PROPERTY LINE, WHICH IS FIVE GARFIELD'S WAY THE SUBJECT PROPERTY. BUT I'M, I'M SORRY, I DON'T HAVE THE BACKGROUND ON THAT. THAT'S, I'M NOT AWARE OF THAT. , IS THIS THE ONLY HOUSE? IS THIS THE FIRST HOUSE BEING BUILT IN THIS LITTLE SUBDIVISION? UM, THAT'S COME BEFORE US. IT'S, WE HAVE, OH YEAH, WE HAVE ANOTHER ONE. UM, THAT'S ALSO PROPOSED. WE'LL PROBABLY SEE THAT IN JANUARY. LET ME GO OVER, LET'S SEE HERE. SO THERE'S A NOTATION ON THE SURVEY THAT SAYS NOTE WOOD FENCE ENCROACHES. AND THERE'S A WOOD FENCE ON THE PROPERTY TO THE NORTH. AND I'M SORRY I DON'T HAVE ENOUGH ROOM TO WORK WITH HERE WITH ALL OF THESE MICROPHONES. YOU SEE THE FENCE RIGHT HERE? THIS IS AN EXISTING FENCE AND THAT FENCE MAY CROSS OVER ONTO 15 WHARF STREET, BUT IT DOES NOT APPEAR THAT IT AFFECTS, UH, THE SUBJECT PROPERTY FIVE GARFIELD'S WAY. IS THAT, IS THAT PROPERTY? NO, THIS LINE IS PROPERTY LINE. IT'S ALREADY WHERE THEY HAVE LINE. SO THIS IS THE NOR THE NORTHERN BOUNDARY OF FIVE GARFIELD'S WAY THE SUBJECT PROPERTY HERE. AND IT'S POSSIBLE THAT THAT FENCE CROSSES OVER THIS PROPERTY LINE ONTO, LIKE I'M SAYING, IT'S, IT'S ALREADY OVER IN 15. SO THAT WOULD MEAN THAT THIS, THIS, THIS, THIS DRAWING IS, IS PARTLY IN 15 AND WE DON'T, WELL, 15 IS OVER HERE TO THE LEFT. I I UNDERSTAND, BUT IT'S IN, SHE'S SAYING THIS WOOD FENCE IS IN 15 THEN BASICALLY THIS DRAWING IS PARTLY IN 15 AS WELL. SO ASSUMING THAT THE FENCE IS I I I, YES. ASSUMING THAT THAT'S THE CASE. SO WE DON'T, WITHOUT KNOWING THAT, LIKE I DON'T, I DON'T, IT'S KIND OF HARD TO MOVE FORWARD. SEE CHARLOTTE, SEE WHERE IT'S THE SURVEYOR CLEARLY SAID NO WOOD FE ENCROACHES. AND YOU SEE THAT KIND OF JAGGED DOTTED LINE IF THAT IS ENCROACHING AND THEN YOU LOOK BELOW AT THE SITE PLAN TO THE LEFT OF THAT LINE. IT TOO IS ENCROACHING, WHICH LOOKS LIKE THE WHOLE BACKSIDE IS ENCROACHING ON THIS LADY'S PROPERTY. NO, I DON'T BELIEVE SO. THE WOOD FENCE IS RIGHT HERE. THIS IS THE WOOD FENCE. YEAH. AND BUT THE LINE IS IS LIKE THEY'RE CONNECTING ON ONE DOWN, ONE IN FIVE, SO, OR SEVEN AND FIVE. THERE'S NO LIKE VARIANCE THERE. IT IS ONE CONTINUOUS LINE. SO THEY'RE ENCROACHING AND SO IS THIS DRAWING? YEAH, I CORRECT. I AM NOT CERTAIN ABOUT THAT. IT'S POSSIBLE THAT THE WOOD FENCE FARTHER UP ENCROACHES ONTO THE 15 WHARF PROPERTY. YEAH. AND THAT'S, THAT'S THE, THE UNCERTAIN HERE THE FACT THAT WE DON'T KNOW, UM, SOME, WE HAVE TO FIGURE THAT OUT. WELL, BUT THIS IS A SURVEY. I MEAN THIS IS A, YEAH, HURRY UP THE STAMP. SHOULD IT NOT BE RECORDED WITH BUFORT COUNTY? I MEAN THIS WAS JUST DIVIDED RIGHT? WITH PAST IT WAS SUBDIVIDED, CORRECT? MM-HMM SO THIS WOULD HAVE TO BE RECORDED WITH BUFORT COUNTY. RIGHT. AND IT'S A SURVEY WITH A STAMP ON, SO IT WOULD BE, I MEAN HE'S GOT A STAMP AND IT'S REPORTED WITH THE COUNTY. DOES THE, I SHOULD BE RIGHT. DOES THE BUILDING PERMIT PROCESS INCLUDE A ZONING REVIEW THAT COMPARES THE PLAT TO THE SURVEY? ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT FOR THE FENCE PERMIT? WELL, WELL, LIKE WE REVIEW FOR THE ARCHITECTURE AND THE SITE PLAN. BUT WHEN YOU SUBMIT FOR THE BUILDING PERMIT, THERE IS A ZONING REVIEW RIGHT, AS PART OF THAT PROCESS. CORRECT. YOU SUBMIT, YEAH. AND THEN BEFORE THAT THEY WOULD GET A BUILDING PERMIT, IT GETS REVIEWED BY ZONING AND PRESUMABLY THEY'RE LOOKING FOR A CERTIFIED SURVEY. CORRECT. AND AND THAT'S WHAT WE, THAT'S WHAT'S BEEN PROVIDED TO US. UM, SO I'M ACCEPTING THIS SURVEY THAT YOU SEE HERE AS BEING ACCURATE FOR ME. I'M VERY UNEASY WITH US NOT KNOWING AND SEEING THE LINES AND SEEING HERE STATING THAT IT DOES ENCROACH. I FEEL THAT THIS NEEDS TO BE TAKEN CARE OF BEFORE WE ARE ABLE TO ACTUALLY VOTE ON SOMETHING. BECAUSE IT DOES ALSO SHOW THAT THE HOUSE COULD BE ENCROACHING ON THE PROPERTY. IT MAY BE, IT MAY [00:25:01] NOT, BUT I FEEL THAT THAT NEEDS TO BE TAKEN CARE OF PRIOR TO A LOT OF, WE, WE CAN VOTE CONDITIONALLY BASED ON THAT OF THE THINGS BEING CORRECT. ONE OF THE THINGS HISTORY STATES AND A LOT OF OUR, UM, COMMUNITY OWNERS DON'T TRUST THE TOWN BASED ON THINGS LIKE THIS. SO I WOULD SAY THAT WE STATE THAT THEY SOMEHOW FIX THIS BEFORE WE'RE ABLE TO VOTE ON IT. YEAH, IT'S TOUGH. I MEAN, BECAUSE IF, IF WE VOTE ON THIS AND STATE YAY, MOVE FORWARD IN THEIR, THEIR BUILDING, IT'S NOT CLEAR. IS THERE, IS THERE A VIRGIN SITE PLAN ON THERE OR SURVEY WITHOUT TOWELS? THIS IS, THIS IS A SURVEY. YEAH. IS THERE WITH A, IS THERE A BASE SURVEY OF THE EXISTING CONDITIONS? WELL STAMPED AND CERTIFIED BY A SURVEYOR PORT WITH THE TOWN. THERE WAS A LOT OF VEGETATION. IS THAT ALONG THAT FRONT? RIGHT. IT'S TYPICALLY BE ON THERE. SENT A NOTE HERE, DOESN'T IT? IS SURVEYING CONSULTANTS WITH A STAMP? THE WORD'S A SURVEY? HOLD ON. UH, WELL IT'S JUST THE SITE PLAN, BUT IT'S WITH THE HOUSE OVERLAID ON. I CAN'T, I'M NOT GONNA BE ABLE TO PULL IT UP. SORRY, I I DON'T REALLY, I YEAH, GO FOR IT HERE, CHARLOTTE. THE, AND AND YOU DON'T WANNA PUT THIS WONDERFUL COUPLE, YOU KNOW, IN PERIL. I DON'T LIKE THAT THIS HAS HAPPENED TO THIS PROPERTY OWNER. THE THING THAT I THINK COULD BE EASY IS GOING BACK TO THE SURVEYOR AND ASK HIM WHAT HE MEANT BY THAT NOTE. IS IT ENCROACHING IN 15 OR IS IT ENCROACHING ON SEVEN OR FIVE? FIVE AND I DON'T KNOW THAT ANSWER THE APPLICANT LIKE TO SPEAK TO THAT. YOU CAN SHOW YOU THE, SORRY. YOU CAN COME UP, THIS IS A, CAN YOU STATE YOUR NAME PLEASE? KEVIN JONES. OKAY. UH, THIS WAS SURVEY WAS DONE IN JUNE OF 25 BY T SQUARE. IT'S A, A SEALED SURVEY AND WHAT IT'S SAYING IS THAT FENCE, WHICH WAS THERE BEFORE, IS ENCROACHING ON FIVE GUARD GARFIELD BY ABOUT FOOT. SO THE SURVEY'S CORRECT AND, AND REGISTERED AND AND STAMPED THE, THE FENCE EXISTING OUT THERE RIGHT NOW IS ENCROACHING ON FIVE ON THE PROPERTY WE'RE LOOKING AT? YEAH. OKAY. SO WHAT I'M SAYING, I GUESS, AND I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, UM, I CAN'T SEE THAT FAR, SORRY, PAPER. BUT UH, WHAT I'M SAYING IS, IS YOU KNOW, GOING BACK AND MAKING SURE THAT, YOU KNOW, WE ARE, WE ARE FOLLOWING, UH, OR GIVEN THE INFORMATION WE NEED. THAT'S WHAT THE SURVEY WAS. THERE'S NO OTHER WAY TO DO THAT OTHER THAN TO, TO GET A STAMP SURVEY. SO, WELL IT COULD BE, YOU COULD HAVE THE TWO PROPERTY OWNERS, WHICH SADLY THEY'RE MEETING TONIGHT AND SADLY WE'RE JUST HEARING ABOUT IT AND IT'S KIND OF OUT OF OUR PURVIEW. WE ARE TO LOOK AT THE HOUSE AND THE SCOPE AND ALL OF THAT. BUT IT COULD BE PERFECTLY FINE AND, AND I HAVE NO WAY OF KNOWING IF THIS CORNER MARKER IS THE SAME CORNER MARKER THAT MRS. COOLEY HAS, BUT I THINK IT COULD BE WORKED OUT WHERE THEY MEET. UM, MAYBE WITH T SQUARE OR I DON'T YOU WERE WITH, ARE YOU THE PROPERTY OWNER? ARE YOU, WHO DO YOU NO, I'M ARCHITECT. YOU'RE THE ARCHITECT. OKAY. UM, TO SEE IF THESE LINES ARE RIGHT BECAUSE IT PUTS THEM IN PERIL. IT UPSETS A PROPERTY OWNER. IT'S BEEN HERE LONGER THAN ALL OF US THAT NEVER IN THIS ROOM. UM, AND I DO UNDERSTAND SOMEBODY IN THE PAST MOVING THOSE THINGS. I KNOW THE, I KNOW WHO'S CAPABLE OF THAT. UM, BECAUSE SHE'S GONNA LEAVE UPSET. THEY'RE GONNA LEAVE UPSET AND WE'RE JUST HERE TRYING TO MEDIATE IT. BUT AT THE SAME TIME WE'RE SUPPOSED TO BE ONLY VOTING ON ON OTHER THINGS IN FRONT OF US. EXACTLY. BUT IT'S HARD TO VOTE ON WHAT'S IN FRONT OF US WHEN YOU HAVE SUCH A LARGE ISSUE WHERE IT HAS HAPPENED THROUGH, OUT OF OUR, THROUGH OUT OF OUR TOWN ON NUMEROUS TIMES, WHETHER IT'S A INCH OR THIS OR WHAT HAVE YOU, FLAGS ARE BEING U MOVED IN. WHAT HA WE JUST WANT TO DO THE RIGHT THING. OKAY. GOES BACK TO THE CHAIR. I, THAT WAS JUST MY COMMENT. FIGURE OUT, YOU KNOW, THANK YOU SPEAKING AS AN ARCHITECT, WE HAVE TO, YOU'VE GIVEN WHAT YOU'RE GIVEN A SURVEY FROM A LICENSED PROFESSIONAL GIVEN THEIR STAMP ON IT MEAN IT THE PLAT THAT'S RECORDED AND THEY, THEY'RE NOT MEASURING OUT THERE IN THE FIELD. THEY'RE MEASURING FROM THAT PLAT AND THEN THEY'RE DOING ALL THE TREES AND TOPOS MEASURING THAT. SO THIS IS A RECORDED [00:30:01] DEED. I MEAN IT SHOULD BE WITH THE, IF IT'S GOT HIS STAMP ON IT, I MEAN HE'S LIABLE FOR, I MEAN IT'S, THAT'S WHAT I SAID. IT COULD BE. HE'S NOT EVEN SAY, I MEAN HE'S NOT MEASURING THE PROPERTY. I MEAN, BUT WHO'S TO SAY THAT THE ONE THAT SHE HAS THAT COULD HAVE BEEN STAMPED PRIOR TO THIS, HE WAS RECORDED WITH THE BUFORT COUNTY SURVEY WILL BE WORKING OFF THE, THE LATEST UPTODATE RECORDED PLAT OR DEED WITH THE COUNTY. WITH THE COUNTY. WHICH GOES BACK TO WHAT I JUST STATED. WHEN FLAGS ARE MOVED HERE, THERE, WHAT HAVE YOU, AND THEN NOW WE'RE PRESENTED THIS, IT SHOULDN'T BE BASED ON THE PLANS, IT SHOULD BE BASED ON THE RECORDED PLAT HISTORY. WHEN THE, YOU KNOW, SO THEY HAVE A, YOU KNOW, THE PROCESS FOR COMING UP WITH ME AND BOUNDS, THEY HAVE A REFERENCE PLAT THAT THEY'VE NOTED IN THE BOTTOM THAT, UH, PLAT BOOK 1 55, PAGE 1 48. SO THEY BASED THE OUTSIDE SHAPE ON THAT PLAT. AND YOU CAN, WITHOUT GOING OUT IN THE FIELD, RECREATE THAT BY TYPING IN THE , YOU KNOW, LIKE UP IN THE TOP CORNER OF THAT SOUTH 74 DEGREES, 33 MINUTES, 40 SECONDS EAST AND 80 FEET AND GET EXACTLY WHERE THAT LINE IS AT THE RIGHT ANGLE TO NORTH AND RECREATE THAT SHAPE WITHOUT HAVING ANY FLAG REFERENCES IN THE FIELD. SO LIKE, I FEEL WOULD FEEL PRETTY COMFORTABLE THAT THAT SHAPE IS BASED ON THE RECORDER PLAT WITH THE COUNTY. THERE MIGHT BE SOME DISPUTE ABOUT WHERE THE FLAGS ARE SPECIFIC TO FENCES AND THINGS OUT IN THE FIELD THAT CAN GET RESOLVED. I FEEL PRETTY CONFIDENT THAT THIS SHAPE IS THE SHAPE THAT'S RECORDED. USE THAT LINE PARALLELLY IF THEY'RE NO, BUT THEY'RE BASED OFF SPECIFIC COORDINATES WHERE IT'S NOT BEEN CORRECT. THEY'RE NOT MEASURED OUT THERE, BUT BUT IT'S RECORDED. I MEAN IT'S RECORDED BUT EVEN BEING RECORDED IT, IT, IT WAS RECORDED WITH A TOWN. THERE'S ACTUAL, WHEN THE SITE WAS DEVELOPED ORIGINALLY THAT THAT WAS RECORDED PLA AND THEY'RE GOING IN THERE. WHEN THEY MARK THAT OFF, THEY'RE NOT, I MEAN MARKING OFF IS, YOU KNOW, FIGURING OUT WHERE THE BUILDING'S GONNA BE. IT'S FIGURING OUT WHERE TREES AND STUFF ARE OFF THOSE POINTS, BUT THAT THEY'RE NOT MARKING OFF IS NOT, YOU KNOW, DRAWING THE, THE PROPERTY LINE BASICALLY. WELL WHY, WHY WOULD, WHY DID THEY TELL YOU TO COME TO US, UH, ABOUT THIS? WHY, WHY, WHO TOLD YOU TO COME TO US REGARDING THIS MATTER? NOT LIKE, ISN'T THERE ANOTHER PART OF THE TOWN TO HANDLE THIS PROBLEM? IT SHOULD BE THE BUILDING OR THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT. OKAY. WHERE THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT UM, UM, AREAS HE'S ALREADY ENCROACHED ON THERE BECAUSE HE ALREADY PUT PIPES UP THERE ALREADY FOR THEM TO BUILD. THAT'S NOT RIGHT. WE KNOW WHO IT'S, WE KNOW WHO IT I UNDERSTAND, BUT I'M I'M JUST SAYING WHAT HE'S DOING IS WRONG BECAUSE HE KNOW HE HAS ENCROACH ON OUR PROPERTY BUT HE KEEPS PUTTING UP A SURVEY THAT HE HASN'T. I HAVE THE ORIGINAL DEED TO MY PROPERTY. I HAVE THE DEED. THEY GO BY WHAT THE UM, SURVEY COMPANY THAT DID THE SURVEY. I HAD FOUR OR FIVE SURVEY ON THE SAME THING EVERY TIME. IT IS DIFFERENT BECAUSE OF WHAT THEY SH HE SHOWED UM, THOSE SURVEY PEOPLE. SO I'M SAYING, UM, HE WHERE WHERE THEY WANNA BUILD WHERE YOU WANNA BUILD IN THE BACK OF UM, AVENUE, THAT'S MY PROPERTY. HE ALREADY PUT THE UM, PIPES DOWN IN THE LINE ON HE DONE CLEARED IT OFF BEHIND ALLEN AND THEM AND PUT THE PIPE DOWN FOR Y'ALL TO BUILD. THAT'S NOT RIGHT. HE'S STILL, HE'S BEEN ENCROACHING ON MY PROPERTY. HE'S TELLING THEM THE SURVEY PEOPLE, THAT'S HIS PROPERTY. IT'S NOT OKAY. IT'S NOT UNDERSTAND YOU TRYING BEHIND THAT NEW HOUSE. I'VE SEEN IT, THAT PART THERE BECAUSE MY HOUSE, THE WAY MY LAND IS, IT IS IN A A A COMES IN AN ANGLE. IT COMES IN ANGLE, IT GOES DIRECTLY BEHIND ALLEN ALL AND THAT'S WHERE HE CLEARED UP. PLEASE. I'M SORRY. IT'S OKAY. WE JUST, I THINK THIS CLEARLY NEEDS TO GET CLEARED UP BEFORE WE ABSOLUTELY TAKE ANY MORE ACTION ON THIS. I WE'VE GIVEN OUR INPUT AS, AS THE BOARD, AS PROFESSIONALS KNOWING WHAT SURVEYORS ARE WORKING FROM. BUT IF THERE'S A DISPUTE THAT NEEDS TO BE WORKED OUT BEFORE THERE'S GONNA MOVE FORWARD, I THINK THAT MIGHT BE THE BEST, BEST WAY TO MOVE FORWARD. I MEAN WE STILL NEED TO TAKE A VOTE THAT WHO LIKE, SO WE HAVE A SURVEY IF THEY HAVE A SUR THEN WHAT, THIS SOUNDS LIKE A TOWN OF BLUFFING ISSUE. I MEAN CLEARLY IF THIS IS, IF SHE'S COME TO THE TOWN AND IS NOT GETTING ANYWHERE, THEN I DON'T KNOW WHY THIS IS. HOW WOULD WE HAVE BOTH SURVEY MEAN? IS THERE A WAY WE CAN LINE THAT'S WHAT I WAS LOOKING AT. I WAS THINKING WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING TO GO OFF OF. SO I MEAN IT SHOULD BE US SHOULD [00:35:01] BE THE TOWN LOOKING. YEAH. THIS IS NOT OUR PURVIEW, IT'S NOT OUR PURVIEW. THAT SHOULD BE THE TOWN LOOKING AT, THERE'S TWO SURVEYS. THEY, THEY NEED TO SIT AMONGST THEM THE TWO OF THE PROPERTY AND HOWEVER, AND HASH THAT OUT BEFORE IT'S, IT'S BROUGHT BACK. SO WE ARE ACCEPTING THAT THIS IS, THAT THE PROPERTY LINES THAT YOU SEE HERE ARE CORRECT, THIS IS WHAT WAS PROVIDED BY THE SURVEYOR AND UM, THIS IS WHAT WE BELIEVE TO BE CORRECT. I I JUST THINK, I MEAN, GOSH WE'RE WAY OUT OF OUR LANE AND I KNOW THAT BUT YOU CAN HAVE HEATHER OR OR WHOMEVER IT IS, SIT WITH THEM AND LOOK AT THE TWO SURVEYS AND SEE IF THEY, I THINK WE MIGHT FIND OUT BECAUSE TCR WAS HIRED BY THIS COUPLE THAT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE FORMER PERSON. UM, I CAN'T BELIEVE TCR WOULD LISTEN TO SOMEBODY TELLING HIM WHERE TO LOOK. I KNOW THEM, THEY'RE VERY REPUTABLE. BUT I THINK IF YOU LOOKED AT THE TWO PLANS, THE TWO SURVEYS, 'CAUSE YOU SAID YOU HAD A SURVEY, YOU CAN SEE THE MEETS AND BOUNDS YOU CAN SEE, I MEAN I CAN GO ON BEAUFORT COUNTY SITE FOR RIGHT NOW AND PULL UP SAME YOUR DEED. UM, AND I THINK IT'S JUST, I DON'T FEEL COMFORTABLE AND I HATE IT FOR THEM. I DON'T FEEL COMFORTABLE WHEN WE'RE STARTING OUT IN SOMETHING. WE DON'T EVEN KNOW IF IT FITS THERE AND IT MIGHT FIT THERE. AND WE ARE PUT IN A POSITION AND YOU DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT IT AND WE DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT IT. IT SHOULD HAVE GONE THROUGH HEATHER AND KEVIN WAY BEFORE IT GOT HERE. FROM WHAT I UNDERSTAND, THE UH, MS. COOLEY IS CONCERNED THAT A FENCE IS CROSSING OVER INTO HER PROPERTY LINE. I DID NOT UNDERSTAND THAT. SHE'S DISPUTING WHERE THE PROPERTY LINE IS. AND SO WE ARE RELYING ON THE SURVEY THAT'S BEEN PROVIDED TO US, UH, BY T SQUARE. IT'S BEEN STAMPED AND THIS IS WHAT WE BELIEVE TO BE ACCURATE, ONE OF US. BUT BEING AN ADVOCATE FOR OUR COMMUNITY, UH, MEMBERS AND OUR NEIGHBORS BEING GOOD STEWARDS OF OUR NEIGHBORS, I FEEL THAT THEY NEED TO TAKE CARE OF THAT BEFORE WE'RE ACTUALLY ADDITIONAL, LIKE WE CAN VOTE ON WHATEVER WE SEE BEFORE US, BUT ADDITIONAL PROPERTY, PROPERTY LINE, IF IT IS WHERE IT IS AND THIS IS CORRECT AND IT'S GOOD AND THEY CAN BRING IT BACK IN AND WE MOVE, WE'RE WE'RE PUSHING IT BACK A MONTH BY NOT DOING THAT. YEAH. AND WE, TO CHARLOTTE'S POINT, WE HAVE TO, WE HAVE TO RULE OR GIVE OUR OPINIONS BASED OFF OF WHAT WE'RE GIVEN. MM-HMM . IF THERE ARE DISPUTES WE CAN INCLUDE THAT IN CONDITION AND THAT CAN BE TAKEN CARE BY THE TOWN OF BLUFFTON. BUT I DO THINK WE SHOULDN'T WASTE THIS OPPORTUNITY TO REVIEW WHAT'S BEEN SUBMITTED TO US. CORRECT. AND AND I WOULD AGREE WITH THAT. UM, I MEAN CERTAINLY YOU CAN CONDITION IT THAT WE WILL NOT SIGN OFF ON A FINAL PLAN, UM, UNTIL WE ARE ADDRESS YOUR CONCERNS FROM THIS EVENING AND THIS WON'T DELAY THE APPLICANT ANOTHER MONTH. ALRIGHT, LET'S TALK ABOUT THE HOUSE, MS. COOLEY. IS THAT ALL UNDERSTANDABLE? SO WE'RE GONNA, WE'RE GONNA REVIEW WHAT WAS SUBMITTED TO US, GIVEN THAT THE SURVEY IS WHAT WE'RE GIVEN, REGARDLESS OF WHAT WE RULE AS FAR AS THE, UH, APPROPRIATENESS OF THE, OF THE PROJECT, WE ARE GONNA INCLUDE A CONDITION THAT IT GETS CLEARED WITH THE TOWN AND THE SURVEY GETS SIGNED BEFORE ANYTHING GETS SIGNED OFF THAT THERE ARE NO DISPUTES OR THAT IT GOES TO DISPUTE, RELU, WHATEVER IT MAY BE. THAT IT DOES NOT GO FORWARD WITHOUT SOME SORT OF A AGREEMENT GOING FORWARD. DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? SO SO WE HAVE TO COME TO AGREEMENT, IT'S BASED ON WHAT WHAT IT ACTUALLY IS. YEAH. DOCUMENT. COMPARE IT WITH WHAT, WHAT'S, AND HOPEFULLY TOWN STAFF CAN GIVE YOU CONTACTS TO TALK TO THE PLANNING DEPARTMENT I'M GUESSING IS OR BUILDING. CORRECT. I WILL GIVE HER MY INFORMATION. OKAY. THANK YOU. SPEAK MICROPHONE. YES. SORRY. YEAH, WHEN YOU DON'T HEAR YOURSELF DOUBLE TALKING, WE'RE TOO FAR AWAY. RIGHT CHAIR? I THINK THAT'S APPROPRIATE SINCE THIS IS WAY OUT OF OUR LANE. BUT I DO THINK THE TWO WITH TWO SURVEYS IN TOUCH WITH PLANNING AND THEY GET A SEAT AT THE TABLE. YES. I THINK THEY'RE GONNA BE GREAT NEIGHBORS. I COULD SEE IT IN YOUR VOICE AND I CAN HEAR YOUR PASSION. UM, THE GOOD THING IS YOU'RE NOT DEALING WITH THE PERSON WHO PICKED UP THOSE LINES IN THE PAST, SO YOU'RE GONNA HAVE A VERY NICE NEIGHBOR I'M [00:40:01] SURE. AND, AND WE'LL RECONCILE IT. BUT I THINK OUR LANE IS LOOKING AT WHAT WE'RE GIVEN, BUT THEN WE HEAR YOUR CONCERN. SO WE'RE TRYING TO MAKE THE BEST OF BOTH SIDES. SO WE MAY APPROVE THIS, BUT IT DOESN'T MEAN IT'S BUILT UNTIL Y'ALL RESOLVE THIS WITH OUR PLANNING STAFF. THAT'S, THAT'S KIND OF THE SYNOPSIS OF IT. DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? UM, YOU WANNA APPROVE? NO, NO, NO. WE ARE, WE'RE ABOUT TO, WE'RE GOING TO LOOK AT THE APPROPRIATENESS OF IT AND THAT'S TO DEAL WITH THE ARCHITECTURE. OKAY. AND THE, THE SITE PLANNING AND THE APPROPRIATENESS OF IT FITTING WITHIN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT. YEAH. AND, AND IF, IF THESE BLIND AREN'T CORRECT, OBVIOUSLY THEY HAVE TO GO BACK TO THE DRAWING BOARD. YEAH. MY SURVEY THAT I DID WAS, YEAH, MS. COOLEY, DO YOU MIND COMING UP TO THE STAND? WE HAVE TO HAVE YOU RECORDED ON THE MICROPHONE WHEN YOU SPEAK ? I SAID UM, THE DEED AND THE SURVEY I DID, UM, ALL MY SURVEY CAME FROM, UM, HILTON HEAD. NINA. NINA? YES. MM-HMM . IT'S, IT'S RECORDED IN BEAUFORT COUNTY. IT'S STAMPED, IT'S RECORDED EVERYTHING. SO I DON'T KNOW WHAT SURVEY THEY'VE BEEN GIVEN OR WHAT HE GAVE THEM, BUT MINE IS STAMPED AND I TOOK IT OVER HERE TO UM, TO THE TOWN TO LET THEM SEE THAT IT WAS STAMPED AND THEY RECORD. I GUESS THEY RECORDED OR WHATEVER. BUT MY THING IS I JUST DID BECAUSE HE CLEARED WHAT HE SAID WAS VEGETATIVE. HE CLEARED IT AND PUT A PIPE UNDER THERE JUST LIKE HE DID BEFORE. HE PUT A LIGHT POLE ON MY PROPERTY. HE PUT FENCE ON MY PROPERTY. HE'S DOING THINGS THAT HE'S NOT SUPPOSED TO BE DOING AND I'M FIGHTING WITH THE TOWN TO TELL HIM TO MOVE IT BECAUSE THEY TOLD ME IF I BROUGHT THE SURVEY THEN THEY WILL MAKE HIM TAKE THE FENCE DOWN. I DID THAT. THEY DIDN'T DO IT. SO THAT'S MY CONCERN. NO MA'AM. I'M SO SORRY. WE WON'T MAKE THIS RIGHT. THANK YOU BECAUSE I'M NOT GIVING HIM ANYTHING. HE, HE, HE IS SAYING THE LAND IS HIS WHAT IS NOT ASK HIM TO SHOW YOU THE DEED. I HAVE THE DEED. TELL HIM TO SHOW YOU. 'CAUSE HE TOLD ME HE PAID $285,000 FOR EASEMENT. HOW YOU GONNA BUY AN EASEMENT? HOW YOU BUY EASEMENT? YOU CAN'T, THIS MAN HAS THE FENCE. HE HAS PIPE WHERE HE DONE CLEAN UP THE BACK OF THE BLUE HOUSE, WHICH IS MY PROPERTY, BUT THE BLUE HOUSE IS THERE, BUT IT'S MY PROPERTY THAT GOES LIKE THAT. AND HE'S SAYING IT'S HIS, IT'S NOT, HE'S ENCROACHING AND HE'S SAYING SOMETHING. THAT'S HIS WHEN IT'S NOT, I WANNA KNOW HOW YOU BUY AN EASEMENT. I WANNA KNOW HOW YOU BUY SOMEBODY ELSE PROPERTY WITHOUT ASKING THEM YOU INFRINGING ON THEIR PROPERTY. SO THAT, THAT'S MY CONCERN. NO DISRESPECT TO YOU. I'M JUST SAYING THAT PREVIOUS OWNER, YOU GOTTA WATCH 'EM, YOU GOTTA WATCH HIM. I FEEL CERTAIN YOU'RE NOT THE FIRST PERSON TO TELL ME THAT. GOTTA WATCH. WE'RE GONNA RECOMMEND, WELL IT WILL BE REQUIRED BY THE TOWN TO, TO MAKE SURE THIS IS RIGHT, THAT THERE'S AN AGREEMENT. SO WE'RE GONNA BACK UP AND GO TO THE PRESENTATION AND WE WILL STRICTLY RULE ON THE APPROPRIATENESS OF WHAT WAS SUBMITTED. DO WE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR STAFF ON THE SUBMISSION BEYOND THE, THE SITE MEETS AND BOUNDS START DOWN AT THAT END. COMMISSIONER PROPS. UH, THE ONLY QUESTION I DO, WE HAVE THE WALL SECTIONS THAT ARE IN THERE BECAUSE WE WANT TO TALK ABOUT THAT. I KNOW THERE WAS. OKAY, JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THEY'RE THERE. YEAH, THE ONE ON THE LEFT IS THE PORCH COLUMN DETAIL AND THEN THE ONE ON THE RIGHT IS THE WALL SECTION THAT I RECEIVED TODAY. UM, ACTUALLY, SO THE SOFFITS V GROOVE, BUT IT'S NOT BEEN IDENTIFIED WHAT THE MATERIAL IS. I BELIEVE IT'S HARDY, WHICH WAS SHOWN ON THE APPLICATION. BUT ALL OF THAT INFORMATION SHOULD BE SHOWN ON THE PLANS BECAUSE ONCE THEY ARE APPROVED THIS IS WHAT WILL BE STAMPED AND WE'LL BE REFERENCING. UH, SO ARE THERE EXPOSED RAFTERS THAT WERE IN THE PACKET THAT WE'VE SEEN? NO. SO THERE ARE NO EXPOSED RAFTERS ANYMORE? CORRECT. OKAY. FINDING IT RIGHT AWAY. WHAT IS THE SQUARE FOOTAGE OF THE LOT? [00:45:02] IT'S 0.16 ACRES. I BELIEVE THAT'S A APPROXIMATELY 7,000 SQUARE FEET. A LITTLE BIT LESS. AND WITH THE FOOTPRINT OF THE HOUSE, THE POOL AND THE GARAGE? UH, THE, WELL, SO THE HOUSE HAS A FOOTPRINT OF UH, 1,909 SQUARE FEET. THE, UM, CARRIAGE HOUSE, THE GARAGE IS 264 SQUARE FEET. SO EVERYTHING IS WITHIN THE DEVELOPMENT SETBACKS AND THEY WILL DESIGNED TO TAKE OUT THAT ONE LITTLE SLIVER THAT IS IN THE REAR YARD COMPARED TO THE HOUSES AROUND THIS. TRYING TO THINK OF HOUSES THAT ARE THIS BIG AROUND IT. YOU MEAN FOOTPRINT WISE? YEAH, IT, IT'S JUST KIND OF WIDER THAN A LOT OF THE STUFF THAT WE GET SUBMITTED. MM-HMM . BUT IT'S, IT'S EQUALLY AS SKINNY. IT'S JUST KIND OF HAS A SIDEWAYS REPRESENTATION TO THE STREET BECAUSE IT'S A WIDER LOT. WE'VE BEEN REVIEWING A LOT OF SKINNY DEEP BLOTS. YOU CAN SEE HERE THIS HAS AN UNUSUAL SHAPE. UM, AND THEN THE ROAD GARFIELD'S WAYS HERE. SO IT'S A LITTLE BIT SHALLOW BUT IT'S LONG AND THAT REFLECTS AND HOW THE HOUSE WAS DESIGNED. I CAN PROBABLY ANSWER DEBBIE. THE, I HAVE CAREFULLY GONE BACK IN THERE IN THE PAST. I'M A REALTOR SO I'VE BEEN BACK THERE. UM, THE HOUSE IS BACK. THERE ARE TWO STORY AND LARGER, UM, ON WHARF STREET. I KNOW THE FEASTS IS TWO STORY. IT'S KIND OF A MIX. SO, UM, IT BLENDS AS YOU KNOW, I'M NOT A FAN OF ADDITIONAL BUILDING TYPES, BUT UM, THAT'S FROM ANOTHER DISCUSSION. BUT IT, IT DOES KIND OF FIT IN WITH THOSE HOMES. AND THEN ON THE EAST SIDE, I KNOW THE PEOPLE, BUT IN THAT LITTLE CONCLAVE, UM, JUST TO THE, TO THE EAST GOING TOWARD CALHOUN STREET ACTUALLY LARGER HOMES THAT THE TURNER'S IS A LITTLE BIT LARGER. SO I DID GO BACK THERE AND LOOK TO MAKE SURE IT'S NOT OVERWHELMING TO ME PERSONALLY. IT DIDN'T FEEL LIKE IT'S OVERWHELMING IN ITS ONLY, I MEAN IT'S 1500 HEATED, 500 SQUARE FEET PORCHES AND UNCOVERED PATIO. SO THANK YOU. I HOPE THAT HELPED. OTHER QUESTIONS FOR STAFF? DO WE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANT? THEN? I HAD A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS. SURE. I WAS REALLY, WOULD THE APPLICANT LIKE TO COME FORWARD? I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S FOR APPLICANT OR CHARLOTTE. CHARLOTTE, SORRY. OUR, OUR OUR SECTION TWO WHICH TALKS ABOUT THE THINGS YOU WANT US TO LOOK AT. THE REAR YARD SETBACK. THEY'VE, THEY FIXED, I WAS JUST TRYING TO GO THROUGH WHAT WE NEED TO LOOK NUMBER ONE AND TWO. IT SOUNDS LIKE THEY, THEY TOOK CARE OF, DO WE, AND I GUESS WE HAVE TO PUT THAT IN A MOTION. UM, PORCHES, THE SCREEN DIDN'T SEEM LIKE IT ABIDED BY THE CODE. WAS THAT ADDRESSED? IT HAS BEEN ADDRESSED. UM, THE WALL SECTION WAS ASKED ABOUT THE FENCE. I ASKED ABOUT THE BRICK, UM, THAT WAS ADDRESSED. THAT WOULD, HAS THAT BEEN ADDRESSED? I BELIEVE SO. THEY SO DOES SAVANNAH GRAY. YEAH. AND THEN YOU HAD SAID ON THE PRESENTATION THE INSETS AND I'VE SEEN SOME OF THIS BUILDER'S HOMES WHERE IT WASN'T REALLY INSET LIKE IN STOCK FARMS. SOME OF THE HOG BOARD WAS ACTUALLY PLACED ON TOP OF THE, THE TABBY. SO ARE THOSE INSET, ARE THEY GONNA BE INSERTED WITH THE, THE HOG BOARD IN IT WITHIN IT? THAT WOULD BE A QUESTION FOR THE APPLICANT. OKAY. WOULD THE APPLICANT LIKE TO COME FORWARD? THANK YOU. YOU COULD STATE YOUR NAME PLEASE. PATRICK COSENTINO. SOUTHERN COASTAL HOMES. UH, SO MY CLIENT WOULD NOT LIKE TO DO ACTUAL LOUVERS OR HOG BOARDS, BUT WE'RE GONNA HAVE THE INDENTATION WHICH WAS ALLOWED AT A PREVIOUS MEETING. CORRECT. SO, UH, WE WILL HAVE AN INDENTATION BUT THE TABBY WILL JUST RUN THROUGHOUT. I'M JUST GOING WITH CHARLOTTE SAID WITH SOMETHING WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT. SO I DIDN'T KNOW IF THAT HAD BEEN PREVIOUSLY APPROVED IN THE PAST OR IS THIS SOMETHING NEW WE HAVE TO MAKE A DETERMINATION ON? I DON'T REMEMBER THAT EVER BEING APPROVED PRIOR, BUT THAT MIGHT HAVE NOT BEEN WHEN I WAS ON THE BOARD. WE HAVEN'T SEEN THIS IN FRONT OF THE WHOLE HPC. THAT MIGHT HAVE BEEN H-P-R-C-H-P-R-C-R-C. I THINK WE HAD SEVERAL OTHER COMMENTS ABOUT THE HOUSE IN, UM, UH, MORE OF AN OVERVIEW BECAUSE THAT'S MORE OF A CONCEPTUAL SUBMISSION AND SO IF WE MISSED THAT DETAIL, UH, I MEAN I THINK IT'S PERFECTLY ACCEPTABLE TO DISCUSS WHETHER THAT SHOULD BE [00:50:01] ALLOWED OR NOT. I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD LEAVE THAT OUT BECAUSE THAT WASN'T NOTED AT HVRC. YEAH. OKAY. WELL LET'S TALK ABOUT IT. DO WE HAVE THOUGHTS? UH, I MEAN THE, THE IDEA OF THAT IS, SO IT LOOKS LIKE PEERS, RIGHT? I MEAN THAT, THAT'S HISTORIC. UM, I MEAN FIRST LOOKING AT IT, TAKING OUT THE STUCCO PART, IT'S, IT'S NOT QUITE UP HERE. SO IN THAT FRONT PORCH IT WOULD JUST BE UNDER THE COLUMNS AND IT WOULD BE LIKE A, A TYPICAL PIER. WE HAVE A COUPLE EXAMPLES OF THE TOWN AND THE UD WHAT THAT'S ALSO, IT'S, IT'S PURE BRICK. IT'S UM, IT'S SPACE TOWARDS, I MEAN THERE'S A COUPLE ACCEPTABLE HISTORIC WAYS OF DOING IT. I DON'T THINK JUST THE STUCCO RECESSES. NO. AND IT, IT KIND OF COMES DOWN TO THE CONSTRUCTABILITY OF IT. IF IT HAD BEEN PI, UM, YOU WOULDN'T HAVE A TABBY STUCCO. LENTIL. THEY LOOK LIKE, I MEAN, GERARD'S GOT A COUPLE OF 'EM WHERE THEY, THEY'VE RECESSED THE BLOCK OR THE CONCRETE BACK AND THEN RIGHT. PUT THEY PUT THE FAKE HOG BOARD AND THEY'RE PAINTED A BLACK BEHIND IT. YEAH, BUT IT HAS TO BE RECESSED. IT CAN'T BE THERE. THERE'S A COUPLE, LIKE YOU SAID IN STOCK FARM THAT ARE ON THE FACE OF IT, WHICH IS NOT UNACCEPTABLE. YEAH. SO THAT, THAT THAT'S THE IDEA. IT'S NOT REALLY, IF YOU'RE GONNA RECESS IT, YOU HAVE TO DO THE HOG FENCE. SO IT LOOKS LIKE A PIER THAT THAT'S IDEA IS THAT IT'S IT'S NOT A CONCRETE SOLID FOUNDATION ON IT. YEAH. ESPECIALLY THE PORCHES. I THINK, I THINK THE FRONT PORCH IS THE MOST IMPORTANT. YEAH. IN THE BACK. YOU KNOW, I I THE BACK IS, IT COULD BE A SAW WALL, BUT FRONT PORCH AND THE SCREEN PORCH IS MADE TO LOOK LIKE IT WOULD GO, IT WOULD GO ALL THE WAY TO THE GROUND TOO. YOU WOULDN'T HAVE THAT LITTLE LIP ON THE BOTTOM OF IT. YEAH, WE FULLY UNDERSTAND THE INTENT. THE REASON THAT IT WAS BROUGHT UP PRIOR WAS BECAUSE, UM, MY CLIENT WOULD PREFER TO DO NOTHING. HOWEVER, UH, WHOEVER IT WAS WAS SAYING THAT WE COULD GET AWAY WITH DOING THIS. AND THAT WAS JUST TO BREAK UP THE SPANS OF THE FOUNDATION, WHICH WAS, YOU KNOW, AND YOU COULD STILL DO THE SAME THING WITH THE PETERS, BUT SHE WOULD PREFER NOT TO HAVE WOOD BECAUSE OF, YOU KNOW, FOR ROT, FOR MAINTENANCE, GETTING THE LEAVES BEHIND THERE AND, AND NO MATTER WHAT TYPE OF FOE, UM, CRAWL THAT YOU DO, THERE'S NOT A WAY TO AVOID THOSE MAINTENANCE ISSUES. I MEAN, IT WOULD PREFER NOT TO, WOULD BE DEFERRING BOARD BEHIND IT. SO IT'S ONLY A THREE QUARTER AND YOU COULD DO SOMETHING LIKE PVC IF YOU DIDN'T WANT MAKE, I MEAN IT'S, THEY, THEY MAKE MATERIALS THAT AREN'T GONNA ROT OR EVEN HARDY. UM, WE, SO THAT THAT'S IDEA WE OBLIG YEAH, MORE MY MAIN CONCERN IS THE APPLICATION WITH A A BRICK PORCH OR UNDERNEATH THE HOUSE PORTIONS WHERE THEY'RE TRADITIONALLY, IF WE'RE THINKING ABOUT THIS BEING BUILT ON PIERS AND THEN INFILLED, YOU WOULDN'T HAVE CONCRETE STUCCO BEING ABOVE THAT OPENING 'CAUSE IT WOULDN'T BE HELD UP WITH ANYTHING. IT WOULD BE ON A WOOD FRAMED HOUSE WITH A, A SKIRT BOARD OR A, UM, A WATER TABLE. SO I DON'T, I DON'T FEEL THAT IT'S APPROPRIATE. I WOULD RATHER JUST SEE IT FULL TABBY STUCCO AND HAVE FOUNDATION PLANNINGS TO COVER THE EXPANSE OF IT. BUT THAT'S MY, MY THOUGHT THAT WOULD BE PREFERRED BY US AS WELL. OTHER THOUGHTS? I WOULD AGREE THAT IT DOESN'T, IT'S NOT REALLY HELPING TO BREAK DOWN A SCALE AT ALL WITH A TABBY INFILL. SO I WOULD GO EITHER SOLID OR I AGREE WITH THAT. IT'S, YEAH, IT TABBY INFILL ISS NOT DOING IT. UM, I JUST WORRY ABOUT THE SOLID NESS OF IT. I MEAN, AGAIN, THERE'S EXAMPLE IF WE BUILD IT THAT WAY, IT WOULD BE ON A, IT WOULD BE ON A DECK, YOU KNOW, METAL DECK AND YOU COULD HAVE, I MEAN WE'VE DONE IT THAT WAY BEFORE, SO NOT COMPLETELY FOREIGN, BUT IT WOULD GO ALL THE WAY TO THE GROUND. YOU WOULDN'T HAVE THAT LITTLE PIECE IN THE BOTTOM. ANYBODY ELSE FEEL STRONGLY? I AGREE. I THINK ALL STUCCO I OR MAKE THAT LOOK LIKE IT'S PEERS OR WE'RE GONNA HAVE A PROBLEM. I, WE'VE JUST HAD A RECENT ONE , YOU KNOW, WHERE IT COMES BACK AND IT JUST, SOMEBODY WASN'T COMMUNICATING. YOUR LANDSCAPE SEEMS TO ADDRESS THE COVERING IF IT'S ALL STUCCO OR TAB, I DON'T MEAN STUCCO. TABBY, TABBY, SORRY. UM, THE LANDSCAPE SEEMS TO ADDRESS THE HIDING OF IT AND IT'S STAYING WITHIN WHAT OUR RULES ARE FOR THE HISTORIC DISTRICT IS MY FAULT. SO I AGREE. OKAY. WE ALWAYS STRONGLY MAINTAIN OUR FOUNDATION COVERAGE WITH PLANTINGS JUST FROM THE NEIGHBORHOODS WE'RE TYPICALLY IN REQUIRE THAT YOU COVER IT COMPLETELY. SO YEP, WE WOULD DEFINITELY BE, UH, RECEPTIVE OF THAT. OKAY. DO WE HAVE OTHER QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANT WHILE THEY'RE UP HERE? HEARING NONE. UM, I HAVE, OH, NEVERMIND. SORRY, [00:55:01] GO AHEAD. WE GO TO THE, UM, WHAT ARE THE, COULD WE GO TO THE DETAILS? WE HAVE THE, WHAT WAS ORIGINALLY SUBMITTED. WHICH ONE? THE ST UH, STAIRS FOR ONE. SO I, I GUESS MY QUESTION IS ON THOSE STAIRS, WHAT, WHAT'S THE RISE IN MATERIAL? IS THAT JUST GONNA BE CONCRETE? IS THAT GONNA BE STUCCO? CAN AS WELL. OKAY. UM, AND THEN THE SOFFIT YOUR ADDRESS, ARE THEY ALL, IT'S WHAT, WHAT'S THE SOFFIT GONNA BE THROUGHOUT? IS IT GONNA BE THAT WHAT IT WAS? YES. THAT LIKE A TONGUE AND ONE BY SIX TONGUE AND GROOVE KIND OF APPLICATION? CORRECT. AND THEN I GUESS MY ONE QUESTION IS THE, THE BRACKET ITSELF IN THE BACK, UM, DO WE HAVE THAT DETAIL? I DON'T BELIEVE I HAVE IT. I DON'T KNOW. LET ME PLEASE LOOK AT THE, DO YOU HAVE A HARD COPY WITH YOU? YES. I MEAN, KIND OF SEE IT THERE. I I THINK THE DIAGONAL IS IS STILL TOO SMALL ON THAT. WE KNOW WHAT THAT DIMENSION IS. IT LOOKS LIKE A, LIKE A FOOT HOLDING UP THAT ROOF. IT'S A VERY LONG VERTICAL. I MEAN I, I'D BE BETTER IF THAT DIAGONAL PIECE PIECE WASN'T 45 AND WENT AT A STARIA ANGLE. I ITCH OF IT. TO WHICH POINT? YEAH, I MEAN I, I THINK THAT THE ACTUAL DIAGONAL'S WAY TOO SHORT. YEAH, I MEAN SO IT'S EITHER, I MEAN I THINK THAT PROBABLY NEEDS TO COME OUT A LITTLE BIT BEYOND THAT BEAM AND THEN TO GET STARTING POINT AT UNDERNEATH THAT BEAM AND GET MORE OF A DIAGONAL PIECE. SO IT'S A HIGHER PITCH. YEAH. YEAH. 'CAUSE WE HAVE THAT THREE FOOT GOING DOWN, SO WE HAVE PLENTY OF RUNWAY. SO YEAH, THE DIAGONAL JUST NEEDS TO BE BIGGER. ANYTHING ELSE? UM, UH, MY LAST THING IS THE, THE BAND ITSELF. HOW DO YOU, WHAT DO YOU GUYS ABOUT THE BAND? IT, IT'S, I KNOW WE TALKED ABOUT HAVING, UM, YOU HAD A DOUBLE BAND BEFORE. LOOKS LIKE YOU STILL HAVE A TOP PIECE. I MEAN I, I'D BE FINE IF IT WAS JUST THIS SIDE WENT DOWN TO THE SILL OR THERE'S A BAND UNDERNEATH IT. IT'S ALMOST KIND OF REVERSED ON THE FRONT ELEVATION ON ANY OF THE ELEVATIONS. IF YOU LOOK AT THE BAND, THERE'S LIKE ANOTHER, THE BAND IS ON TOP OF THE SILL FOR THE, THE THE BAND FOR THE HOUSING. OH, OKAY. I THINK EITHER GETTING RID OF THAT AND JUST HAVING A SALE OR HAVING A BAND UNDER, HAVING THAT BAND UNDERNEATH IT. YEAH. WE, WE CAN RUN THE BAND, JUST HAVE THE SIDING UP TO THE BAND AND THEN THAT'S IT. MORE TRADITIONAL FOUNDATION. YEAH, THAT'S WHAT THAT'D BE AROUND THE WHOLE ENTIRE HOUSE. THE BOARD AND BADMAN AND THE CORRECT SIDING. IT'S, IT'S JUST THE TOP BOARD. THE HORIZONTAL. SO, BUT BEFORE IT WAS DOUBLE, IT WAS ONE ON TOP, ONE ON BOTTOM. I, I THINK OVERALL, I MEAN I, I THE WINDOWS LOOK MUCH BETTER. I MEAN I THINK YOU GUYS DID A GOOD JOB WITH THAT. UM, TAKING THE SHUTTERS OFF I THINK HELPED QUITE A BIT, BUT THEY ALL LINE UP, THEY ALL LOOK PROPORTIONAL. UM, DID A PRETTY, PRETTY GOOD JOB WITH THAT. OKAY, ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, COMMENTS, DISCUSSION? THANK YOU. APPRECIATE IT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH. ALRIGHT, WE'RE GONNA LOOK FOR A MOTION. WE DO WE WANNA RECAP THE CONDITIONS. YEAH. OKAY. SO 1, 2, 3 I THINK HAVE BEEN ADDRESSED. 4, 5, 6. DID WE HAVE A, AN ACTUAL PLAN SHOWING THE PORCH REVISED THOUGH? NOT A PLAN. JUST THE ELEVATION. JUST THE ELEVATION WHERE I DIDN'T SEE WHICH AN UPDATED. OKAY. DO YOU WANNA SEE IT? I WOULD AND IT'S ARCHITECTURE. GIVE IT THIS. YOU DON'T EVEN WANT ME TO GET OUTTA MY LANE. WATERBOARD AND BAND BOARD WATERBOARDS IT. I GET THE WATER. I LEARNED THAT . [01:00:06] IT IS A VERY ASYMMETRICAL SOLUTION. . YEAH. UM, IT'S NOT WHAT I WAS EXPECTING IS THERE ONE THING TO NOTE WITH THE ASYMMETRY IS THAT THE GARAGE, THE VIEW WOULD BE BLOCKED FROM THE GARAGE, WHICH IS ON THE OTHER SIDE ANYWAY. AND THAT WAS ONE REASON WHY WE WERE CONSIDERING APPLYING FOR A VARIANCE WAS BECAUSE THE GARAGE WAS BLOCKING ANY, WHICH IS A SHORTER SETBACK, THAT IT WOULDN'T REALLY MATTER IF THAT PORCH ENCROACHED. HOWEVER, UM, YOU KNOW, WE DECIDED TO GO THIS ROUTE INSTEAD JUST TO, YOU KNOW, THE PATH OF LEAST, UM, RESISTANCE HOPEFULLY. AND UM, BUT YOU KNOW, I THINK WITHOUT THE LINE OF SIGHT BECAUSE OF THAT GARAGE, THAT'S WHY WE FELT THIS WAS THE BEST, UH, SOLUTION. WHEN YOU, WHEN YOU DRIVE INTO THE NEIGHBORHOOD, YOU'RE LOOKING STRAIGHT AT THE GARAGE, ISN'T THAT FAR FORWARD? YOU'RE LOOKING STRAIGHT AT IT. I MEAN, YOU GUYS CAN TELL ME IF I'M BEING TOO HARSH, BUT IT'S UH, IT IS RIGHT IN YOUR FACE WHEN YOU'RE GONNA PULL INTO THE NEIGHBORHOOD FROM THAT DIRECTION. THIS SEEMS TO ME LIKE IN KIND OF TRADITIONAL APPROACHES TO CONSTRUCTION, THAT'S PRETTY ASYMMETRICAL. YOU KNOW, THE CHIMNEY COULD COME UP WIDER THROUGH THE, THROUGH THE GABLE. SO THE GABLE, THE SCREEN PORCH GABLE SEEMS CENTERED AND THEN STAGGER, STAGGER INTO SOMETHING THINNER. THE REST OF THE WAY UP WOULD BE ONE SOLUTION BECAUSE YOU CAN'T DO THAT 'CAUSE OF THERE'S A SECOND DOOR IN THE FIREPLACE. YEAH, YEAH. OTHER THOUGHTS? YEAH, I DON'T KNOW. I'M, UH, I MEAN OTHER THAN IT JUST FEELS LIKE AN INCOMPLETE THOUGHT AND A RUSHED SOLUTION. BUT IF YOU GUYS THINK I'M BEING TOO HARSH ON THAT, I PREFER THE VARIANCE. YEAH. TO BE HONEST, WHO DOES THE, THE VARIANCE WOULDN'T GO TO US. IT WOULD GO TO ZONING BOARD AND ZONING APPEAL, CORRECT? MM-HMM . OKAY. I MEAN, I THINK I WOULD PREFER THE VARIANCE TOO. I MEAN, I THINK BEING SIDE, BEING OFF CENTER I THINK IS, I THINK YOU'LL FIREPLACE IS NOT BEING CENTERED IN THERE. UM, BUT ON THE OUTSIDE TOO, I MEAN, IT'S A VERY SYMMETRICAL, VERY SYMMETRICAL ELEVATION AND THAT REALLY THROWS IT OFF. I MEAN I, I APPRECIATE THE CHALLENGES HERE, BUT THAT JUST DOESN'T FEEL LIKE A DESIGN SOLUTION TO ME. IT'S CENTERED, BUT HERE, THIS YEAH. CORRECT. WOULD THE APPLICANT LIKE TO COME FORWARD AND SPEAK? YES, PLEASE. THANK YOU. YES. UM, THE LOGIC BEHIND THE PORCH WAS, UH, WE WERE FACED WITH DIFFICULT CHOICES. SO BECAUSE, UH, THE WAY IT WAS ORIGINALLY DRAWN WHERE IT WAS SYMMETRICAL WITH THE HOUSE AND THE FIRE, THE CHIMNEY, UM, IT PUT US 1.89 FEET OVER THE SETBACK. AND THE PROCESS, APPARENTLY FOR I, I'VE NEVER BUILT IN BLUFFTON BEFORE. I LIVE IN SEA PINES. UM, THE PROCESS FOR OBTAINING THAT 1.89 FOOT VARIANCE SEEMS SORT OF CUMBERSOME. SO WE DID ELECT TO, UH, REDUCE THE PORCH ON THAT ONE SIDE TO AVOID THAT PROCESS. UM, AND YES, IT DOES MAKE THE PORCH ASYMMETRICAL. UM, BUT HAVING THE TWO DOORS WHERE THEY ARE, UM, FROM THE INSIDE, IT'S SYMMETRICAL FROM THE EXTERIOR, IT'S ASYMMETRICAL AND WE FELT THAT IT WAS, UH, VISUALLY BLOCKED BY THE GARAGE. SO YOU, SO AS YOU'RE COMING DOWN THE STREET [01:05:01] GARFIELD'S WAY, YOU ARE, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE COMING FROM AN OBLIQUE POSITION. YOU, YOU DON'T SEE IT, YOU DON'T SEE THE SIDE OF THE HOUSE. UM, SO WE FELT THAT THAT VISUAL OF BEING SLIGHTLY ASYMMETRICAL ON THE EXTERIOR WAS NOT OF GREAT SIGNIFICANCE. IF IT IS, UM, YOU KNOW, THE WAY TO MAKE THAT SYMMETRICAL IS TO REDUCE THE FOOTPRINT OF THE PORCH FROM, UH, THE FRONT TOWARDS THE REAR OF THE HOUSE. UM, SO NOW WE'RE JUST GONNA HAVE A REALLY SMALL SCREEN PORCH. UH, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, PATH OF LEASE RESISTANCE. UM, WE WOULD LIKE TO MOVE THIS PROJECT FORWARD. I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE TIMELINE WOULD BE TO TRY TO OBTAIN THAT VARIANCE OF THE 1.89 FEET THE WAY WE ORIGINALLY PROPOSED IT. YOU KNOW, WE WOULD JUST LIKE TO MOVE FORWARD. MY BUILDER'S READY TO MOVE FORWARD. I'M READY TO MOVE FORWARD. UM, SO I WILL ACCEPT WHATEVER GUIDANCE YOU PROVIDE TO US. THANK YOU. OKAY, THANK YOU. FOLLOW UP THOUGHTS? I THINK, YEAH, I MEAN, I, SORRY. I THINK ALMOST TWO FEET IS PROBABLY NOT, I MEAN, I'M NOT A LOT GOING INTO A SETBACK AND I AGREE AND IF THEY SAY NO, YOU ARE RIGHT BACK HERE. I DON'T MIND BLUFFING BEING QUIRKY. IF IT'S A LITTLE OFF IT, I'M NOT AN ARCHITECT, BUT IT DOESN'T BOTHER ME. IF IT DOESN'T BOTHER YOU. UM, I JUST THINK YOU'RE GOING DOWN A BAD ROAD FOR ASKING FOR TWO FEET. YEAH. I, THAT'S MY PERSONAL, I AGREE THAT YEAH, THE BZA PROCESSES IS A LOT AND YOU REALLY NEED A GOOD REASON. UM, I MEAN, I WOULDN'T WANNA MAKE THEM MAKE THE SCREEN PORCH ANY SMALLER. 'CAUSE IT'S ALREADY SMALL, IT'S NOT REALLY USABLE AT THAT POINT. YEAH. UM, SO IT'S FINE WITH ME. THOUGHT, WANT, THOUGHTS? COMMISSIONER FRAZIER? I WOULD AGREE. I MEAN, ALL THE CHALLENGES THAT THEY'RE CURRENTLY HAVING, IT'S PROBABLY NOT A GOOD IDEA. SO YOU'RE OKAY WITH ASYMMETRY? YES. OKAY. COMMISSIONER WONDER? I GUESS SO. OKAY. IT'S KIND OF THE POINT OF THIS COMMISSION. UNFORTUNATELY. , YOU'RE, YOU'RE SUPPOSED TO HAVE AN OPINION. WE'RE SUPPOSED TO MAKE IT HARD. NO, NO, WE'RE NOT. I'M, I'M THINKING ABOUT IT FROM INSIDE THE PORCH, BUT THAT'S ALL. OKAY. WHAT SOUNDS LIKE THE MAJORITY IS OKAY WITH IT. SO WE WON'T MAKE THAT A CONDITION UNLESS SOMEONE FEELS SO MOVED AFTER WE MAKE THAT DECISION. IF WE MAKE THAT CONDITION. UM, OR MOTION IF THEY WANT TO ADD ONTO IT. SO WE WERE AT FENCE BRICK. IF YOU DECIDE FOUR WAS SOMETHING WE NEEDED TO PUT IN THE MOTION, I WAS TYPING IT OUT FOR YOU. I DON'T BELIEVE SO. I DON'T THINK IT HURTS TO KEEP IT IN THERE. I MEAN, YEAH, WE KEEP IT IN THERE. NO, I'M JUST SAYING IT'S NOT ANYTHING. YES. YEAH, YEAH, YEAH. SO THE OTHERS HAVE BEEN ADDRESSED, BUT KEEP IT IN THERE. YES. OKAY. AND THEN THERE WAS A SEVENTH OR IS THAT WITH THE TREE PER TREE PERMIT? CORRECT. YEAH. OKAY. HERE ON THE FENCE, WE DO REQUIRE THE TOP RAIL ON THE, SHE DID HAVE THAT, THE, THE, UM, HOG WIRE NEEDS. OH, I MISSED THAT. THE TOP RAIL PER THE SECTION. YES. CORRECT. OKAY. SO FOUR AND FIVE AND THE OPACITY ISSUE IS A SORT OF A MOOT POINT. OKAY. IS THAT CLEAR AS MUD? ANYBODY WANNA MAKE A MOTION? I'LL TRY. I MOVE. WE APPROVE THE APPLICATION FOR FIVE GARFIELD'S WAY, UM, TO INCLUDE ITEM UNDER SECTION TWO FOR THE WALL SECTION FIVE FENCE. UM, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE OPACITY. WE RESOLVED THAT DURING OUR DISCUSSION. UM, THE TREE A SEVEN, THE TREE REMOVAL PERMIT AND THE, THE ABBY COMPLETE TABBY ON THE BASE OF THE, WITH A CONDITION UPON PROPERTY OWNERS OF 15 WHARF AND FIVE GARFIELD'S WAY TO MEET WITH STAFF TO AGREE ON THE TWO SURVEYS PROPERLY. UM, ALIGNED WITH THE PROPERTY LINES. AND SHOULD I KEEP TALKING? IS THERE A BAND ISSUE? THE BAND EITHER THE, THE BAND NEEDS TO BE ON THE TOP OR IT NEEDS TO BE ON THE BOTTOM OR IT NEEDS TO BE GO AWAY BRACKET WITH THE BRACKET. DETAIL BEING LONGER AND EITHER DO THE BAND, BAND THE BAND, EITHER IT NEEDS TO BE ON THE BOTTOM OF THE, THE SEAL OR IT NEEDS TO GO AWAY. THE BAND NEEDS TO EITHER GO AWAY. IT'D BE AT THE BOTTOM OF THE SEAL. SO, [01:10:01] UM, RISE MATERIAL NEEDS TO BE THAT IT'S LISTED ON THE DRAWINGS. SORRY, THIS IS GETTING A BIT OF A MESS OF MOTION. I KEPT TALKING. THAT'S OKAY. OKAY. DID YOU GET IT, CHARLOTTE? OKAY. , YOU EXPECTING ME TO REPEAT IT? ? NO, THAT'S RIGHT. OKAY. DO WE HAVE A SECOND? SECOND. ANY DISCUSSION? I DIDN'T PUT A TIMELINE FOR THIS TO HAPPEN, BUT CHARLOTTE, THIS NEEDS TO HAPPEN. YES. THEY DON'T NEED TO BE DELAYED AND SHE DOESN'T NEED TO BE UPSET. THAT'S IN EVERYBODY'S BEST INTEREST. OKAY. NO FURTHER DISCUSSION. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. AYE. ANY OPPOSED? OKAY. THE APPLICATION'S PASSED WITH, UH, WHAT CONDITIONS WE'RE GONNA MOVE ON TO DISCUSSION. [VIII.1. Historic District Monthly Update. (Staff) ] HISTORIC DISTRICT MONTHLY UPDATE. WE HAVE ONLY TWO ITEMS THIS MONTH. UH, SIGNED FOR A GREENHOUSE. UH, THE NEW RESTAURANT ON MAY RIVER ROAD. AND, UM, UH, REQUEST FOR SITE FEATURE PERMIT TO APPROVE SOME HOUSE REMODELING AT 32. UH, GRARD. AND THAT'S IT. OKAY. DO WE NEED TO DO ANYTHING ABOUT VOTING FOR A NEW CHAIR? NOT, NOT AT THIS MEETING. WE WILL IN JANUARY. OKAY. AND EVAN, THANK YOU SO MUCH. YOU'VE BEEN A GREAT CHAIR CHAIRMAN. THANK YOU. AND WE WILL MISS YOU. ALL RIGHT. I'M LOOKING FOR A MOTION TO MAKE YOU I HAVE A QUESTION QUICK. I WAS GONNA SAY THE SAME THING. SURE. I'VE ONLY BEEN HERE A SHORT WHILE, BUT YOU'VE BEEN AN EXCELLENT CHAIR AND A GREAT ROLE MODEL FOREVER TAKES OVER. YOU INCLUDE ALL OF US AND I APPRECIATE IT. UM, UM, SHOOT, I WAS GONNA ASK A QUESTION, BUT I WANTED TO GET THAT OUT. I DO WANNA THROW OUT ABOUT UDO AMENDMENTS. 95% OF WHAT WE LOOKED AT HAS BEEN ADDITIONAL BUILDING TYPES AND I THINK WE'RE ABUSING IT. I REALLY DO. AND I WILL GO TO EVERY COUNCIL MEMBER AND I THINK ALL OF US SHOULD GET TOGETHER AND THINK ABOUT MAKING SOME CHANGES TO THAT. WE JUST HAD THAT DISCUSSION YESTERDAY, UM, AT OUR STAFF MEETING. AND WE ARE GOING THROUGH THE WHOLE UDO SECTION OF OLD TOWN AND STARTING TO IDENTIFY THINGS THAT WE KNOW ARE PROBLEMATIC. SINCE I'VE BEEN DOING THE CE NOW, I KIND OF SEE WHAT'S HAPPENING AND YES, THE ADDITIONAL BUILDING TYPE IS COMING UP VERY OFTEN AND WE MAY BE STRAINED FROM OUR TRADITIONAL BUILDING TYPES. AND, UH, SO WE, WE ARE WORKING WITH GLEN, OUR HISTORIC PRESERVATIONISTS TO BEGIN THAT PROCESS. AND THEN POSSIBLY, UM, HAVING SOME SORT OF MEETING WITH THE COMMISSION TO DISCUSS THIS FURTHER. I WOULD SUGGEST, BECAUSE I'M OUT TALKING TO PEOPLE ON OUR HISTORIC RESOURCES, WHICH IS MY NEW PASSION, UM, WELL, IT'S AN OLD PASSION, BUT, UM, I THINK IT WOULD BE GOOD FOR THE TOWN TO MEET WITH PEOPLE WHO DO THIS A LOT. AND I WOULD SAY PIERCE SCOTT IS 100% UNDERSTANDS OUR CODE TO SEE, YOU KNOW, WHY ARE PEOPLE NOT USING IT? AND IF WE'RE ALL ADDITIONAL BUILDING TYPES IN 20 YEARS, ARE THEY LEGALLY CONFORMING OR NON-CONFORMING? SO IT'S JUST SO MANY QUESTIONS THINKING DOWN THE ROAD. AND, AND I DO THINK IT'S BEEN ABUSED, NOT BY YOU, BUT I THINK THERE'S SOMEWHERE EVERYONE SEEMS TO BE USING IT 'CAUSE IT'S EASY. AND WE FORGET WHY BLUFFTON IS BLUFFTON JUST MY FAULT. THANK YOU, THAT'S ALL. THANK YOU. ANY OTHER DISCUSSION? DO WE HAVE A MOTION TO ADJOURN? VOTE A SECOND. I'LL SECOND THAT. ANY DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. MEETING'S ADJOURNED. THANK YOU. * This transcript was created by voice-to-text technology. The transcript has not been edited for errors or omissions, it is for reference only and is not the official minutes of the meeting.