YES, SIR. RIGHT. OKAY. THIS IS A CALL TO ORDER FOR THE OCTOBER HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION [I. CALL TO ORDER] [00:00:10] MEETING. IT'S WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 1ST, 6 P.M.. CAN I GET A ROLL CALL, PLEASE? CHAIRMAN EVAN GOODWIN HERE. VICE CHAIRMAN JONES HERE. COMMISSIONER FRAZIER HERE. COMMISSIONER JIM HESS HERE. COMMISSIONER TIM PROBST, COMMISSIONER DEBBIE WONDER, COMMISSIONER LISA SULKA HERE. OKAY. NOTICE REGARDING ADJOURNMENT. THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION WILL NOT HEAR NEW ITEMS AFTER 9:30 P.M. [III. NOTICE REGARDING ADJOURNMENT] UNLESS AUTHORIZED BY THE COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT ITEMS WHICH HAVE NOT BEEN HEARD BEFORE 09:30 P.M. MAY BE CONTINUED TO THE NEXT REGULAR MEETING OR SPECIAL MEETING DATE, AS DETERMINED BY THE COMMISSION MEMBERS. WE'RE GOING TO LOOK FOR AN ADOPTION OF THE MINUTES. [IV. ADOPTION OF MINUTES] WE HAVE A SECOND. I'LL SECOND THAT. OKAY. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE, AYE. THE MINUTES ARE APPROVED. DO WE HAVE ANY PUBLIC COMMENT? NO. OKAY. WE'RE GOING TO GO TO OLD BUSINESS, WHICH IS 36. [VI.1.36 Wharf Street: A request by Jamie Guscio (Kingfisher Construction), Applicant, on behalf of Kathy Barbina and Tim Harris, Owners, for approval of a Certificate of Appropriateness-HD to allow the construction of a new 2-story Carriage House of 1200 square feet. The property is in Old Town Bluffton Historic District, and zoned Neighborhood General-HD (NG-HD). (COFA-03- 25-019657) (Staff - Charlotte Moore) ] GOOD EVENING. THE FIRST ITEM THIS EVENING IS 36 FOURTH STREET. AND THIS WAS AN ITEM THAT YOU HEARD BACK. THE COMMISSION HEARD BACK ON AUGUST 6TH. IT WAS TABLED BY THE APPLICANT BECAUSE THERE WERE A NUMBER OF CONCERNS. AND THAT TABLED A PERIOD OF TIME, ALLOWED THE APPLICANT TO RESPOND TO THOSE CONCERNS. THIS IS FOR THE CONSTRUCTION OF A TWO STORY CARRIAGE HOUSE OF APPROXIMATELY 2600FT², AND IT IS AGAIN LOCATED AT 36 FOURTH STREET IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD GENERAL HISTORIC DISTRICT. AND HERE YOU SEE A PHOTO. THE CARRIAGE HOUSE WILL BE IN THIS APPROXIMATE LOCATION HERE WHERE YOU SEE THESE TWO TREES. HERE IS THE SITE PLAN THAT LOCATION IN BLUE. THIS WAS THE PREVIOUS ITERATION OF THE CARRIAGE HOUSE NEXT TO THE MAIN HOUSE, AND THERE WAS CONCERN THAT THE CARRIAGE HOUSE WAS A BIT TOO TALL. IT HAS BEEN LOWERED TO FEET, AND HERE YOU CAN SEE THE DIFFERENCE. AND WHAT I'D LIKE TO DO IS GO THROUGH EACH ELEVATION AND JUST TO IDENTIFY WHAT THE WHAT THE CHANGES WERE THAT HAVE BEEN MADE. THE EAVES WERE A LITTLE BIT TOO LONG OR WIDE. THEY HAVE BEEN REDUCED. THEY WENT FROM 2FT TO 1FT, FOUR INCHES. THE FLOOR HEIGHT WAS REDUCED FOR THE FIRST FLOOR DOWN TO NINE FEET. IT WAS PREVIOUSLY TEN. AND THE COLUMNS OR THE POSTS WERE MADE A BIT WIDER. THEY WERE PREVIOUSLY SIX INCHES. THEY ARE NOW EIGHT. A COUPLE OF CONCERNS WITH THIS ELEVATION. WE STILL HAVE. THE COLUMNS ARE A BIT TOO FAR APART. THEY CAN'T BE FARTHER APART THAN THEY ARE TALL. THE WIDTH FROM ON CENTER OR NOT? THE WIDTH, BUT THE DISTANCE FROM ON CENTER AS MEASURED ON CENTER IS A BIT MORE THAN 12FT. AND THE POST OR THE COLUMNS ARE ABOUT NINE FEET. SO THAT WILL NEED TO BE ADDRESSED. AND ALSO IT WAS A BIT UNCLEAR WHAT'S GOING ON WITH THE FOUNDATION. FROM THIS VIEW, IT APPEARS THAT THERE'S AN EIGHT INCH PORCH FOUNDATION. BUT WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE OTHER ELEVATIONS, THAT FOUNDATION DOES NOT SHOW FOR THE PORCH. AND SO WE NEED TO GET THAT CLARIFIED ON THIS ELEVATION, THE SOUTH OR THE LEFT ELEVATION, THERE WERE TWO WINDOWS ADDED TO THE SECOND FLOOR. PREVIOUSLY THERE WERE NONE. AND THEN THE BAND WAS MADE WIDER TO DISTINGUISH THE FIRST AND SECOND FLOORS. THE NORTH ELEVATION. IS THE SAME AS IT WAS PREVIOUSLY. THERE ARE NO WINDOWS THAT HAVE BEEN ADDED. THE REAR ELEVATION HAS SOME CORRECTIONS AS WELL. THE BAND. THE EXPRESSION LINE IS WIDER AGAIN THAT CARRIES AROUND. AND THEN THE THE WINDOW HEIGHT HERE BETWEEN THE SHED ROOF WAS A LITTLE BIT MORE DISTANT. AND THAT HAS ALSO BEEN CORRECTED AND LOOKS MORE APPROPRIATE. HERE ARE THE FLOOR PLANS IF YOU NEED TO SEE THEM. THE SECTIONS AND DETAILS REGARDING THE REVIEW CRITERIA. THERE ARE FOUR THAT HAVE TO BE CONSIDERED IN THE REVIEW. AND THERE THERE IS CONSISTENCY. THERE ARE A FEW THINGS HERE THAT WOULD NEED TO BE CORRECTED FOR ALL OF THESE CRITERIA TO BE MET. AND THE FINDINGS OF STAFF ARE THE FOLLOWING THREE. THAT THE PORCH FOUNDATION NEEDS TO BE CORRECTED. DESIGN THE PORCH COLUMNS TO BE NO FARTHER APART THAN THEY ARE TALL, AND TO MAKE CERTAIN THAT THE COLUMNS DO NOT OVERHANG THE PORCH FOUNDATION. [00:05:04] PROVIDE A WINDOW AND DOOR SCHEDULE ON THE PLAN, AND THEN TO ALSO SHOW THAT THERE NEEDS TO BE A MINIMUM OF 75% TREE CANOPY COVERAGE AT MATURITY. WHEN WE MET BACK IN AUGUST, THERE WAS SOME CONCERN ABOUT SOME TREES BEING REMOVED, AND WE DID RECEIVE AN ARBORIST REPORT. THERE IS A 40 INCH LAUREL OAK, AND THAT HAS BEEN IDENTIFIED AS HAVING POTENTIALLY SOME SIGNS OF CANKER AS WELL AS CROWN DIEBACK. SO I HAVE RECEIVED THAT LETTER FROM THE ARBORIST AND CAN SHARE THAT WITH YOU IF YOU'D LIKE. WITH THAT YOU CAN EITHER APPROVE THE STAFF REPORT OR THAT OR THE APPLICATION AS SUBMITTED BY THE APPLICANT. APPROVE WITH CONDITIONS OR DENY THE APPLICATION AS SUBMITTED. AND HERE'S A SUGGESTED MOTION AND I'LL BE GLAD TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS. THANK YOU. CHARLOTTE, ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS FOR STAFF? ARE WE ALSO NOT MISSING SEVERAL DETAILS, LIKE A SECTION THROUGH THE PORCH IN THIS DETAILED SECTION OF THE SERVICE YARD AND THE STAIR AND HANDRAIL AND THINGS LIKE THAT AS WELL? I DO NOT. SORRY, I DIDN'T KNOW IF THAT WAS MAYBE IN THE PREVIOUS SUBMISSION WITH YOUR. YOU ARE CORRECT. I SORRY, I DON'T HAVE THAT IN FRONT OF ME. I MEANT TO GET A PRINT OUT. GO TO THE DRAWINGS JUST TO DOUBLE CHECK MYSELF IF I DID NOT OVERLOOK INSERTING THEM INTO. YOU'RE CORRECT. THEY WERE NOT SUBMITTED WITH THE DRAWINGS. WHAT WAS THE DISTANCE BETWEEN THE COLUMNS AND THEN THE HEIGHT? HOW FAR OFF WERE THEY? IT'S A LITTLE MORE THAN. SO THE COLUMNS ARE NINE FEET, THREE INCHES. THE COLUMNS ARE APPROXIMATELY 12FT APART. SO THE. YEAH. IS THE. WELL, ARE THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR STAFF BEFORE WE ASK IF THE APPLICANT MAYBE A QUESTION. I MEAN WE GOT THEM TO LOWER IT. I'M I'M NEW SO I'M A LITTLE CONFUSED BY IT. COLUMNS HAVE TO BE LESS APART THAN THEY ARE TALL. BUT I'M GOING TO LEARN THAT. BUT I SEE THE CARRIAGE HOUSE, AND I DON'T KNOW IF THIS IS FOR YOU OR THE APPLICANT, CHARLOTTE, BUT IT'S. I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU MAKE THAT DIFFERENCE WHEN WE ASK THEM TO LOWER THE WHOLE ENTIRE STRUCTURE BY SO MANY FEET SOMEWHERE, THAT SEEMS LIKE THE HEIGHT AND THE WIDTH ARE GOING TO CHANGE. SO I DON'T KNOW HOW WE ADDRESS THAT ON A CARRIAGE HOUSE. I GET IT ON THE FRONT ELEVATION. BUT I'M PERSONALLY DOESN'T BOTHER ME SO MUCH ON THE BACK WHEN WE'VE ASKED THEM TO LOWER IT ALMOST TWO FEET. SO SOMEWHERE SOMETHING'S GOING TO BE WIDER AND SOMETHING'S GOING TO BE SHORTER. SO I JUST WASN'T SURE HOW WE ADDRESS THE THE SPACE BETWEEN THE HEIGHT OF THE COLUMN, OTHER THAN TO DO A DUPLICATE COLUMN RIGHT BY IT. AND THEN THAT KIND OF LOOKS A LITTLE TO ME. THAT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO ME. AND I HAVE A NEIGHBOR THAT DID THAT PROBABLY BECAUSE OF THE SAME REQUIREMENT. IT JUST LOOKS ODD. SO I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S A QUESTION OR A COMMENT FOR FOR COMMISSION TO THINK ABOUT. IT SEEMS LIKE A COMMENT, BUT YOU CERTAINLY HAVE THE ABILITY TO APPROVE IT AS SHOWN IF YOU BELIEVE IT LOOKS APPROPRIATE. SOME OF IT IS, AND THIS IS JUST CONJECTURE, I GUESS. OR COMMENTS IN ADDITION TO SOME OF IT IS HISTORICALLY, WE WOULD TYPICALLY HAVE A MORE VERTICAL PROPORTION BETWEEN THE COLUMNS, JUST FROM A PHYSICS STANDPOINT, WHEN THEY'RE BUILDING THIS OUT OF TIMBER, THE THE PORCH PORTION OR THE THE OVERHANG ABOVE THE GARAGE DOORS AND THE WINDOWS, TYPICALLY WE WOULD NOT SEE THE ROOF OVERSHOOT THE HOUSE. SO THAT'S A LITTLE ODD. AND THAT'S BEEN KIND OF PROBLEMATIC IN THE PREVIOUS ITERATIONS. USUALLY THAT WOULD DIE INTO THE THE SECOND FLOOR ABOVE SO THAT YOU DON'T HAVE SORT OF A JUST KIND OF HANGING OUT EAVE ON THAT OVERHANG, WHICH WAS AGAIN, THAT SORT OF WHERE IT'S CONTINUING FROM THE THE MAIN GABLE INTO THAT OVERHANG. THAT'S NOT REALLY TYPICAL. USUALLY WE'D LIKE TO SEE AN OUTSIDE CORNER WHERE IT THEN TURNS THE CORNER AND GOES TO THE, [00:10:02] THE OVERHANG. IT'S EITHER OPEN OR A DIFFERENT MATERIAL OR THE SAME MATERIAL BUT SET BACK. SO THAT'S PART OF WHY THE PROPORTIONS ARE A LITTLE OFF. I MEAN, I THINK THE PORTION OF THE I MEAN, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE, IT'S GOING TO BE WIDER BECAUSE THE GARAGE DOOR, RIGHT, THAT'S DRIVING IT. YOU'RE ALWAYS GOING TO HAVE THAT. I MEAN, I THINK IT WOULD HELP IF THAT WAS THOSE COLUMNS MOVED IN MAYBE EIGHT INCHES AND HAD THE OVERHANG JUST DIE INTO THAT OVERHANG BEING EIGHT INCHES. YEAH, I THINK THAT I MEAN, I COULD LIVE WITH THAT. ARE WE IF WE'RE JUST LAUNCHING INTO DISCUSSION ON THIS, THE WE HAVE ALLOWED EXCEPTIONS FOR CARPORTS AND GARAGES IN THE PAST, BUT WE'VE BEEN PRETTY SPECIFIC ABOUT REQUIRING THAT BECAUSE IT'S SO SPECIFIC IN THE RULES AND IT'S SOMETHING EVERYBODY DEALS WITH AND COULD EASILY BE ADDRESSED. SHIFTING WINDOWS AND THINGS. IT'S SOMETHING WE'VE REQUIRED WHERE IT'S NOT AT THE GARAGE DOOR OR CARPORT OPENING, AND THEY COULD ADD A COLUMN AND KNOCK THAT OUT PRETTY SIMPLY. BUT PEOPLE, PEOPLE DEAL WITH THAT ON EVERY PROJECT THAT COMES BEFORE US. AND IT'S BEEN PRETTY CONSISTENTLY APPLIED. SO THE SOLUTION IS AN ADDITIONAL COLUMN. YEAH. YOU MIGHT HAVE TO RETHINK THE WINDOWS IN THE BACKGROUND, BUT OKAY, OKAY. TO MAKE SURE THERE'S THAT'S BEEN SOMETHING I MEAN IT'S PRETTY SPECIFIC IN THE UDO AND IT'S BEEN SOMETHING THAT'S BEEN ENFORCED IN MY EXPERIENCE PRETTY CONSISTENTLY. I MEAN, I GUESS THIS IS THE GARAGE THOUGH, RIGHT? I MEAN, IT'S YEAH, WE'VE ALLOWED IT'S GOING TO BE WIRED DOOR IS 8M OR 9 FOOT NINE TYPICALLY. BUT THIS LOOKS LIKE IT'S MAYBE EIGHT. I MEAN, IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE THERE'S A TEENAGER THAT. YEAH, WE'VE ALLOWED DETERMINATION THAT. THAT'S OKAY. IT'S JUST. YEAH, THAT MIGHT BE ALL CENTER GOOD. OTHER QUESTIONS FOR STAFF. BEFORE WE TALK TO THE APPLICANT OR GO INTO MORE DISCUSSION. IS THE APPLICANT HERE TO PRESENT? YES HE IS. HELLO AGAIN. HEY. WELCOME. SO THE COLUMNS ON THE FRONT. SORRY. YOUR NAME PLEASE. I'M SORRY. JAMIE, YOU SHOW APPLICANT FOR KIM HARRIS AND KATHY BABINO, 36 WHARF STREET. OBVIOUSLY, YOU KNOW WHY THE SPACE LIKE THAT? BECAUSE OF THE GARAGE DOOR. I JUST HEARD THAT, SO I DON'T REALLY KNOW WHAT THE SOLUTION WOULD BE TO IT'S GOING TO MAKE IT LOOK FUNKY IF IT IF WE ADD ANOTHER COLUMN AND TRY TO DO THAT. SO I MEAN, IT'S A PRETTY TYPICAL MOVE TO FOR IF YOU NEED A WIDER OPENING FOR SOMETHING TO HAVE A WIDER COLUMN BAY, LIKE A FRONT DOOR OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT, IT'S A NINE. IT'S A NINE FOOT GARAGE DOOR. RIGHT? SO I MEAN, YEAH, I MEAN, I THINK IT SOUNDS LIKE WE'RE WILLING TO GIVE EXCEPTION AT THE GARAGE DOOR, BUT WOULD LIKE TO SEE IT COMPLY OTHERWISE, WHICH IS SOMETHING THAT HIS STUDIO HAS DONE OR THAT ANOTHER COLUMN IN BETWEEN THE THE THREE WINDOWS. YEAH. YEAH. I MEAN YOU MIGHT YEAH YOU MIGHT THINK RETHINK THAT AREA. BUT YOU KNOW IT'S IN THE UDL. IT'S SOMETHING EVERYBODY ALL ALL SUBMISSIONS THAT COME BEFORE US REALLY ADDRESS AND EVERYBODY GETS THAT COMMENT. IT'S BEEN MADE A COUPLE OF TIMES. SO YOU WANT ANOTHER COLUMN IN BETWEEN THAT MIDDLE WINDOW IS BASICALLY WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING FOR. YEAH. AND YOU CAN REPLACE WINDOWS AND STUFF. BUT I MEAN, IT'S PRETTY CLEARLY I MEAN, YOU KNOW, THERE'S MORE PEOPLE ON THIS BOARD, BUT IT'S IN THE MIDDLE. IF YOU WERE READING UDL BEFORE YOU DESIGN THIS, YOU WOULD SAY, HEY, I SHOULD ADDRESS THAT. WE THOUGHT WE DID WITH LOWERING THE HOME, INCREASING THE SIZE OF THE COLUMNS TO KIND OF MAKE IT LOOK MORE SUBSTANTIAL, OBVIOUSLY. YEAH. THAT ADDRESSES WE CAN MAYBE GET THEM IN A LITTLE BIT MORE ON, ESPECIALLY IN BETWEEN THE WINDOWS. ARE YOU ARE YOU NOT. IS THERE GOING TO BE LIKE A PAVEMENT LIKE OR FOUNDATION UNDERNEATH THAT ROOF? BECAUSE IT LOOKS LIKE ON THE DRAWINGS THERE'S JUST NOTHING. IT'LL BE IT'LL DRIVE ALL THE WAY BECAUSE THAT'S THE QUESTION. AND IT'S NOT AN EIGHT INCH TALL. IT'S JUST A REGULAR. YEAH. WHAT IS THE SPACE WE'RE LACKING? HOW MUCH FURTHER? LONGER ARE WE? TALLER. CAN YOU GO TO THE FLOOR? ABOUT THREE FEET. ABOUT THREE FEET. SO IT'S THREE FEET MORE SPACE. THE DIMENSION BETWEEN THE CENTER LINES OF THE COLUMN, AND THE HEIGHT FROM THE BOTTOM OF THE COLUMN TO THE TOP OF THE COLUMN. AT THE BOTTOM OF THE BEAM. NO, NO, PLEASE. LOOK. LOOK. CAN YOU GO TO THE FLOOR PLAN ON THAT? IS IT REALLY 12FT? [00:15:07] HANG ON. STOP BEING SIX. SO IT'S 3.5FT. IT'S 12FT. IT'S THE CENTER IS THE CENTER LINE, BUT IT'S CENTER LINE TO CENTER LINE ON THE COLUMNS. WAS THIS THE SAME ISSUE BEFORE WE ASKED HIM TO LOWER IT? IT WAS IDENTIFIED, YES. YEAH, IT WOULD HAVE BEEN. IT JUST GOT WORSE. IT JUST GOT WORSE. BUT I MEAN, BUT THE THE SOLUTION, THE SOLUTION IS EXACTLY THE SAME IF WE ALLOW THEM THE SPACING AT THE GARAGE, THE SOLUTION AND THE SPACING AT THE OFFICE IS THE SAME. UNLESS THEY RAISED IT ANOTHER TWO FEET, WHICH YEAH, I MEAN DO THEY THEY LOWER. I MEAN MY ISSUE IS GOING TO BE OFF CENTER. I MEAN WE'RE GOING TO HAVE WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A SPACE THAT'S NOT CONFORMING NO MATTER WHAT. THAT GARAGE DOOR. YEAH. AND WE HAVE AND WE HAVE ALLOWED THAT ON CARPORTS IN THE PAST. SO THAT TO ME, I MEAN WE'VE CONSIDERED THAT A COUPLE OF TIMES. IS I'M OKAY WITH THAT EXCEPTION. BUT EVERYBODY I MEAN EVEN ON THE SIDE BAY, IT'S BEEN ENFORCED FOR YEARS ON THE SIDE. KATIE PETERSON WAS ENFORCING IT ON THE SIDE BAYS. SO IF YOUR PORCH WAS DEEPER THAN IT WAS TALL, I HAD TO COME UP WITH A SOLUTION. I MEAN, THIS IS THE FIRST TIME I'VE COME THROUGH. I REMEMBER YOU'RE ALWAYS GOING TO HAVE THAT GARAGE DOOR. IT'S GONNA BE WIDER. WE NEVER WANT THOSE ROOFS TO BE. I MEAN, THIS IS THIS IS THE FIRST ISSUE THAT I'VE SEEN IT LIKE THIS. SO YOU JUST ADD A COLUMN IN THE CENTER AND YOU CAN MOVE SOME WINDOWS AROUND, AND IT'S IN THE BAY ON THE SIDE YOU HAVE AN A, B, B SCHEME IN THE CENTER. I MEAN OR INSTEAD OF INSTEAD OF CENTER. INSTEAD OF HAVING THE ROOF OVERSHOOT THE SIDE OF THE HOUSE, WHICH IS ATYPICAL IN HISTORICAL PRECEDENTS. I MEAN, THAT'S THAT'S TYPICAL FOR A MODERN STRUCTURE. THERE'S A LOT OF BARN STRUCTURES LIKE THAT. THAT'S NOT A STORY. I MEAN, THE ROOF I MEAN, THAT'S WHAT BOTHERS ME THE MOST. I INTO IT. YEAH. YOU SHOULD COME IN AND I'D RATHER SEE A BRACKETED ROOF. I MEAN, DOES IT NEED TO BE A COVERED. IT'S NOT. ARE WE REDESIGNING THIS HOUSE OR, LIKE. OH, WELL, WE DON'T NEED A DESIGN. I'M JUST SAYING IT'S A IT'S A RULE THAT'S BEEN APPLIED A LOT. WE'VE MENTIONED IT I THINK A COUPLE OF TIMES THROUGH THIS PROCESS. WE'RE JUST TRYING TO GIVE INPUT THAT WOULD MAKE IT LOOK LIKE IT ACTUALLY WOULD HAVE BEEN HISTORICALLY ACCURATE VERSUS YEAH, YOU'RE SAYING DELETE THIS OVERHANG HERE. WE'RE SAYING ON THE ROOF LINE IS WHAT I MEAN. WHAT I WOULD SAY IS THAT THAT COLUMN AND THAT ROOF WOULD GO IN EIGHT INCHES. SO YOU BREAK THAT WALL. SO THERE'S THERE'S AN OUTSIDE CORNER THERE. THAT ROOF WOULD DIE INTO THAT WALL. YOU DON'T REALLY TYPICALLY SEE IT OVERSHOOT THE STRUCTURE BECAUSE THEN YOU'RE GOING TO SEE THE BACK OF THAT. IT'S NEVER GOOD TO SEE THE BACK OF THAT. SO TYPICALLY THAT PORCH WOULD BE IN IT WOULDN'T BE YOU WOULD HAVE AN OUTSIDE CORNER. AND YOU KNOW THOSE OVERHANGS, IT'S STILL FOR THAT LOWER THOSE OVERHANGS WOULD BE PROBABLY EIGHT INCHES. SO I MEAN I MEAN YEAH, IT WOULD BE EIGHT INCHES AND LET IT DIE INTO THE CORNER. THEY'RE NOT AN ARCHITECT. I WONDER IF YOU DOUBLE THE COLUMNS ON BOTH SIDES ON THAT. DOES THAT GET YOU THE SPACE BETWEEN HE DOUBLED THEM ON EACH SIDE OF THE WINDOWS. YOU MEAN THE WINDOWS? THEN WOULD YOU? I DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH IT. PERSONALLY, I DON'T EITHER. SO. BUT I'M NOT AN ARCHITECT. BUT I THINK SOMETIMES WE NEED TO USE SOME COMMON SENSE. YOU CANNOT DO ANYTHING TO THAT GARAGE BECAUSE THE PEOPLE HAVE TO GET IN THEIR GARAGE. RIGHT? PUTTING A COLUMN IN FRONT OF A WINDOW TO ME, THREE COLUMNS IN A SPACE AND A COLUMN LOOKS ODD TO ME. IF THIS WAS A MAIN HOUSE, I'D BE REALLY SUPER FOCUSED ON IT, BUT IT'S CARRIAGE HOUSE BEHIND I. BUT AGAIN, THESE GUYS ARE MORE FOCUSED ON THE CODE. I MEAN, MAYBE IT'S MOVING THOSE COLUMNS ON THE SIDES INWARD AND DOUBLING THE COLUMNS IN THE MIDDLE. SO THEN THAT GIVES YOU IF YOU CAN GET NINE FEET OUT OF THAT, I MEAN, I'M ALL RIGHT IF YOU GUYS WANT TO SAY THIS IS A SECONDARY STRUCTURE AND AND. THE COLUMN SPACING MAKES SENSE IN THIS SPACE. BECAUSE IN THIS PLACE BECAUSE WE WOULD GIVE DEFERENCE TO THE GARAGE DOOR. I'M JUST FROM WHERE I'M COMING FROM. IT'S IT'S ALWAYS THIS IS ALWAYS A DISCUSSION. IT'S ALWAYS A PAIN. AND I'M JUST SAYING, YOU KNOW, THERE'S SOME CONSIDERATION FOR BEING EVEN ON THAT. BUT IF YOU GUYS THINK THAT IN THIS CASE, THAT'S NOT APPROPRIATE. I THINK THE DESIGN LOOKS FINE. IT'S JUST THAT RULE COMES UP A LOT. WOULD YOU GUYS BE OPPOSED TO HAVING A DOUBLE COLUMN IN THE MIDDLE OF THE 19TH, THE COLUMNS IN THE INSIDE, [00:20:05] AND THEN YOUR SPACING IS NINE FEET. SO THEY'RE STILL CENTERED ON THE THEY'RE STILL CENTERED ON THE GARAGE DOORS AND CENTERED ON THE WINDOWS. AND MOVE THE LEFT ONE IN. SO MOVE BOTH COLUMNS AT BOTH ENDS IN THAT ONE. MOVE, MOVE. I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU MOVE. THEN YOU GET. SO THEN EVERYTHING'S STILL CENTERED. THE COLUMNS ARE JUST MOVED IN THE WINDOWS AND THE GARAGE DOORS. I WOULD BE OKAY WITH THAT. THAT WOULD GIVE YOU. THAT WOULD GIVE YOU MORE THAN NINE FEET WIDTH. AND YOU'RE COMING INTO IT, SO IT'S NOT LIKE YOU'RE HAVING TO TURN. I MEAN, I WORRY ABOUT THE COLUMNS AND CARS, BUT I MEAN, IT'S NOT COMING STRAIGHT IN. YOU'RE NOT HAVING TO CURVE TO GET IN THE GARAGE. I MEAN, THAT ABIDES BY THE CODE THAT WOULD GET YOU THE NIGHT, THE EQUAL. I MEAN, AT LEAST BE EQUAL NINE FOOT OR CLOSE ENOUGH. MAYBE I'LL BUY AN INCH OR SO, BUT YEAH, I'M OKAY WITH THAT. DOES THAT MAKE DOUBLE THE COLUMNS JUST ON DOUBLE COLUMNS IN THE CENTER? IN THE CENTER, JUST DOUBLE IN THE CENTER RIGHT. AND THEN MOVE THE OTHER COLUMNS, MOVE THEM FURTHER APART THAT WAY. SO EVERYTHING STILL SO THE COLUMNS ARE STILL THE DOOR IS STILL CENTER AND THE COLUMNS STILL CENTERED ON THE WINDOWS. YOU STILL HAVE SYMMETRY. AND THEN A ROOF COMES IN SO IT'S NOT OVERSHOOTING. THAT MAKE SENSE TOGETHER. AND I LOOKED AT IT AND SEE HOW IT LOOKED. IT JUST SOUNDS LIKE WE'RE DOING SOMETHING. THAT'S JUST MY OPINION. THANK YOU. WHAT DO YOU THINK? I THINK YOU'D WANT US TO APPROVE THIS WITH A CONDITION, NOT BRING IT BACK. BECAUSE I'M SURE YOU'RE FRUSTRATED. I'VE BEEN AROUND THIS FOR A WHILE. IT IS DEFINITELY AN AMENDMENT I WOULD ASK US TO LOOK AT DOWN THE ROAD ONE DAY ON THESE CRAZY THINGS, BUT I MEAN, IN THOSE COLUMNS, BECAUSE THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE IS GOING TO LOOK, ALL IT'S GOING TO LOOK AND IT'S JUST ONE OF THOSE RARE KIND OF WHAT TO DO'S AND THE, THE INTENTION FROM A HISTORICAL STANDPOINT IS, YOU KNOW, HOUSES THAT WERE BUILT IN A PERIOD WHERE THEY WOULD BE DEEMED A HISTORICAL STRUCTURE FOR THE TOWN OF BLUFFTON, YOU WOULD NOT HAVE AN OVERHANG, OVERSHOOT THE HOUSE BECAUSE IT'S NOT PRACTICAL TO HAVE A RAFTER SITTING THERE THAT IS ONLY ON ONE SIDE OR EITHER. SORRY WAS ONLY DONE WITH BLOCKING. IT KIND OF DOESN'T MAKE SENSE. SO THAT'S WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO GET AROUND, IS JUST MAKING IT MAKE PRACTICAL SENSE FOR WHAT IT WOULD HAVE BEEN. AND HISTORICALLY, SINCE IT'S HISTORIC DISTRICT. I'M SORRY YOU WERE SAYING I SAID THERE WOULDN'T BE ANY GARAGE DOOR IN THE IN HISTORIC. EXACTLY. YEAH. ANYWAY, BUT THERE ARE MANY MORE, MANY HERE THAT YOU SEE. THERE ARE MANY. BUT THE IDEA IS TO HAVE A HISTORICAL PRECEDENT AND THEN FIGURE OUT HOW TO MAKE WORK. SO I THINK WHAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT MAKES SENSE TO ME FROM DOUBLE COLUMN MOVING THE COLUMNS IN SO IT HAS A BETTER PROPORTION. PERSONALLY I JUST DO BRACKETS AND CALL IT A DAY BECAUSE IT GETS RID OF ALL OF IT, BUT YOU KIND OF LOSE THAT. SO I GUESS YEAH I MEAN THAT'S AN OPTION. BUT YOU LOSE A PORCH BUT DO BRACKETS INSTEAD OF ADDING A SECOND COLUMN. THAT WAS A THOUGHT ON YOU CAN'T DO THAT BUT BRACKETS YOU'RE GOING TO IT'S NOT GOING TO LOOK THE SAME AS THE HOUSE ANYWAY BECAUSE THE HOUSE DOESN'T HAVE BREAKFAST. YEAH. KEEP THAT SAME PROPERTY. I'LL TAKE THE DOUBLE COLUMN. WOULD BE THE LEAST COST ASSOCIATED WITH IT. IF IT'S JUST IN THE CENTER FOR ABIDING BY THE CODE TO GET IT CLOSER TO THE HEIGHT, DISTANCE, IT'S VERY SYMMETRICAL HOUSE. SO I THINK IT KEEPS THAT OR NOT HOUSE A CARRIAGE HOUSE, IT KEEPS THAT SYMMETRY. I MEAN, THAT WINDOW IS CENTERED IN THERE. AT LEAST THAT ELEVATION IS PRETTY SYMMETRICAL. SO JUST DOUBLE THE COLUMN IN THE MIDDLE AND MOVE THE COLUMN. MOVE THE COLUMNS IN AND MOVE THE TWO ON THE END IN. YEAH. RIGHT. SO ONCE WE TAKE THAT ROOFLINE OFF ANYWAY THE THE COLUMNS WILL COME IN REGARDLESS. RIGHT. THE COLUMNS ARE GOING TO COME IN AND IT DIES IN. SO YOU STILL WANT TO KEEP THE, THE WINDOWS AND THE GARAGE DOORS CENTERED ON THOSE COLUMNS SO THAT THE OBJECT. SO MOVE THE THE DOUBLE COLUMNS OUT SO THEY'RE THE SAME DIMENSION. AND WE TRY TO GET AS CLOSE TO 90FT AS POSSIBLE. YES THAT'S RIGHT. OKAY. OTHER COMMENTS QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANT. I MEAN, JUST THE DETAILING. CAN YOU GO TO THE WALL SECTION ON IT? JUST A COUPLE QUESTIONS ON THAT. OKAY. SO RIGHT THERE. SO IF YOU LOOK AT THE WHAT'S THE MATERIAL OF THIS SOFFIT. I KNOW IT'S EXPOSED, BUT WHAT'S THE ACTUAL MATERIAL THAT YOU'RE GOING TO SEE ON TOP OF THE RAFTERS. IT DOESN'T SAY WHAT IT IS. EXPOSED RAFTERS ARE TREATED. [00:25:02] I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT THE RAFTERS. WHAT'S IF YOU LOOK UP ON THE RAFTERS? WHAT'S THE MATERIAL? IS IT T111 OR WHAT? IT'S NOT LISTED WHAT THAT IS. OH, I KNOW WHAT YOU MEAN. IT'LL BE T111 OR BEADBOARD. IS T111 PLYWOOD SOFFITS AREN'T ALLOWED TO BE NEEDED. AND THEN THERE'S GOING TO BE A FASCIA PIECE ON TOP OF THAT. SO WE NEED TO. YEAH. MORE THAN LIKELY TO BE ONE BY FOUR. AND THEN IF WE GO TO THE GARAGE, WAS THE BIGGEST QUESTION MISSING THAT DETAIL THAT GO BACK TO THAT SECTION. SECTION OF DETAIL. SO AGAIN, I THINK WE NEEDED DETAIL THEN OF WHAT THAT HEADER IS GOING TO BE, WHAT THE CEILING IS GOING TO BE UNDERNEATH THAT PORCH. NONE OF THAT'S KIND OF CALLED OUT. RIGHT. IT'S IT'S OBVIOUSLY IT'S WRAPPED. WHAT'S THE CEILING IN IT. IS THAT BEADBOARD THE MATCH? I MEAN, JUST NEED A SECTION OF THAT. I MEAN, THE HOUSE. I MEAN, I APPRECIATE THAT YOU PUT THE HOUSE NEXT TO IT. IT'S GOOD. SEEING. AND I APPRECIATE, YOU KNOW, ALL THE WORK BRINGING THAT DOWN. I THINK IT LOOKS MUCH BETTER. AND SEEING THE HOUSE NEXT TO THIS IS VERY HELPFUL TO APPRECIATE ALL THAT. IS THE INTENT OF THAT THAT PORCH DETAILING MATCHES WHAT'S AT THE HOUSE. CORRECT. AND WHEN WE STARTED THIS WHOLE PROCESS, WE UPLOADED PICTURES AND EVERYTHING THAT WE CAN SEE THE ELEVATION OF THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE. SO IF WE GET DETAILS OF THAT TO SHOW STAFF IF THEY'RE GOING TO BE THE ONES TO APPROVE IT. YEAH, WE CAN TAKE PICTURES OF THE FRONT OF THE MAIN HOUSE CEILING AS WELL, THE PORCH CEILING AND JUST MATCH THAT ALSO FOR THAT REQUIREMENT. YEAH, I MEAN, I THINK WE'RE LOOKING FOR I MEAN, THE SUBMISSION REQUIREMENTS ON THAT CHECKLIST ARE ARCHITECTURAL. I MEAN LIKE ONE INCH DETAILS LIKE THAT ONE YOU'VE GOT FOR EVERYTHING SO THAT THERE'S A RECORDED DOCUMENTATION OF WHAT LIKE THE SERVICE YARD DESIGN IS AND THINGS LIKE THAT. YEAH. THE SERVICE YARD IS GOING TO MATCH THE HOUSE AS WELL AS FIVE QUARTER HOG FENCE. OKAY. I THINK IT JUST NEEDS TO BE RECORDED. YEAH. I MEAN, I THINK SOME CONSTRUCTION DETAILS SO THAT WHEN EVERYBODY'S OUT IN THE FIELD, THERE'S SOME UNDERSTANDING WHAT IT IS. DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? OKAY, SO I THINK WE CAN FORMULATE A MOTION AROUND THE IDEA THAT IT MATCHES THE HOUSE. YEAH. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANT? ARE THERE ANY ANY OTHER STAFF COMMENTS THAT WE NEEDED TO ADDRESS OR REVIEW? DO YOU NEED TO TALK ABOUT THE PORCH FOUNDATION THERE? IT'S NOT CLEAR. SO I GUESS WHAT HE WAS SAYING WAS THAT'S JUST SHOWING THAT THE SLOPE OF IT GOING UP. EXACTLY. SO. BUT IT'S ONLY GOING TO SLOPE AT THE GARAGE DOOR. SO ON THE LEFT SIDE IT WOULD BE WHAT. IT'S BASICALLY A STOOP FOR THE FRONT FOR THE DOOR. ENTRANCE DOOR. IS IT GRAVEL OR CEMENT? IT'LL BE CEMENT. OKAY. SO IF THAT COULD JUST BE SHOWN ON THE ELEVATION OR CALLED OUT. OKAY. YEAH, THAT'S ACTUALLY ALMOST LIKE IT'S IT'S IN THE GROUND BURIED IN THE GROUND. NO PORCH. THAT POST. YEAH. THERE'S NO MATERIAL SHOWN. OKAY. DOES EVERYONE FEEL OKAY WITH THE COMMENTS THAT WE'VE MADE THAT WE'LL ADD INTO THE MOTION THAT IT'S. VIEWABLE AT STAFF LEVEL? YES. OKAY. AND WOULD SOMEONE LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION? I'M SORRY. TAKE NOTES ON THOSE ITEMS. OKAY. I WILL MOTION TO APPROVE THE SUBMISSION WITH THE STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS. ONE, TWO AND THREE AS SHOWN ON THE SCREEN. AND ALSO THAT THE SPACING OF THE PORCH COLUMNS BE MODIFIED TO COMPLY WITH THE UDO BY DOUBLING COLUMNS IN THE CENTER OF THE BAY AND MOVING THE OUTSIDE COLUMNS IN, AND RECENTERING THE WINDOWS AND DOORS IN THOSE BAYS. AND THEN PROVIDING DETAILS FOR THE CONSTRUCTION DETAILS FOR THE PORCH AND EAVE AND BEAM AND FOUNDATION AND THE SERVICE YARD AND THE STAIR AND HANDRAIL. AND ALSO THAT THE BEARING FOR THE LOWER BEARING FOR THE MAIN ROOF BE INDICATED ON THE PLAN BECAUSE IT'S NOT SHOWN IN SECTIONS. [00:30:09] SECOND. ANY DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. AYE. ANY OPPOSED? OKAY. MOTION IS PASSED. THANK YOU. NEXT UP, WE HAVE NEW BUSINESS. FOR FOR FIVE LAWTON STREET. [VII.1.5 at 36 Wharf Street: A request by Jamie Guscio (Kingfisher Construction), Applicant, on behalf of Kathy Barbina and Tim Harris, Owners, for approval of a Certificate of Appropriateness-HD to allow the construction of a new 2-story Carriage House of 1200 square feet. The property is in Old Town Bluffton Historic District, and zoned Neighborhood General-HD (NG-HD). (COFA-03- 25-019657) (Staff - Charlotte Moore) Lawton Street: A request by Ansley Manuel (Manuel Studio), Applicant, on behalf James W. Jeffcoat Revocable Trust (Owner), for approval of a Certificate of Appropriateness-Historic District to allow construction of a detached Carriage House of approximately 1,180 SF located 5 Lawton Street. The property is located in the Old Town Historic District and is zoned Neighborhood Center-Historic District (NC-HD). (COFA-09-25-019856)(Staff - Charlotte Moore) ] RADKE THE APPLICANT ANSLEY MANUEL OF MANUEL STUDIO, WHO IS REPRESENTING THE PROPERTY OWNER, JAMES W JEFCOAT REVOCABLE TRUST, IS SEEKING APPROVAL TO ALLOW THE CONSTRUCTION OF A NEW TWO STORY COMMERCIAL CARRIAGE HOUSE OF APPROXIMATELY 1100 AND 80FT². THE PROPERTY IS LOCATED AT FIVE LAWTON STREET IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD CENTER HISTORIC DISTRICT. THERE'S A LOCATION AND ZONING MAP. HERE'S THE SITE PLAN. YOU MAY RECALL THAT EARLIER THIS YEAR, IN THE SUMMER, YOU APPROVED THE COMMISSION, APPROVED THE DEMOLITION OF A SHED IN THE REAR YARD OF THE BUSINESS KNOWN AS ECCENTRICITIES. AND THAT SAME SPACE IS THE PROPOSED CARRIAGE HOUSE. THE DEVELOPMENT PLAN WAS PREVIOUSLY APPROVED BY THE PLANNING COMMISSION, SO THE LANDSCAPE AND THE LIGHTING DETAILS WERE ADDRESSED WITH THAT PLAN. WE ARE LOOKING SIMPLY AT THE DESIGN TONIGHT. HERE IS THAT SPACE THAT YOU SEE IN THE REAR OF THE ECCENTRICITIES BUSINESS. HERE IS THE SLAB AREA WHERE THE CARRIAGE HOUSE WILL BE CONSTRUCTED, AND THEN THE PROPERTY IN THE REAR HERE TO THE NORTH. HERE IS THE FRONT ELEVATION. THE FEATURED MATERIALS ARE STANDING SEAM METAL ROOF. HARDIE LAP SIDING. VARIETY OF PRESSURE TREATED WOOD COLUMNS AND TRIM, AS WELL AS THE SCREENING FOR THE SERVICE YARD. THERE ARE LOUVERS THAT YOU SEE HERE AT THE GROUND FLOOR. BEHIND THAT IS THE STAIRCASE TO THE SECOND FLOOR. THESE BUSINESSES WILL NOT. THERE WILL BE NO INTERIOR STAIRCASE TO THAT SECOND FLOOR. THE RIGHT ELEVATION. THE APPLICANT DID PROVIDE RECENTLY. THE SHUTTER DOOR CONFIGURATION. TRADITIONAL STYLE. HERE'S THE LEFT ELEVATION. THE REAR YARD ELEVATION. THE FLOOR PLANS, AS WELL AS THE SECTIONS. AND I NOTED WHILE I WAS PREPARING THE POWERPOINT THAT THE COVE MOLDING HAS BEEN IDENTIFIED AS PVC, WHICH IS NOT A PERMITTED MATERIAL. SO THE COMMISSION WOULD NEED TO MAKE A DETERMINATION WHETHER OR NOT THAT IS APPROPRIATE. THE REVIEW CRITERIA IF THE CONDITIONS ARE MET, THE REVIEW CRITERIA WILL ALSO BE MET. THESE ARE THE FINDINGS OF STAFF. SIMPLY EVERYTHING APPEARED TO BE MET ARCHITECTURALLY. WE DO REQUIRE THAT A SITE PERMIT BE PERMITTED OR SUBMITTED, RATHER FOR ANY FUTURE SIGNAGE FOR THE BUSINESSES. AND THEN ADDITIONALLY, THERE NEED TO BE A COUPLE OF DETERMINATIONS MADE, WHETHER OR NOT THE WINDOW PROPORTIONS ON THE REAR ELEVATION OR THE EAST ELEVATION RATHER ARE APPROPRIATE, AND WHETHER OR NOT PVC IS AN APPROPRIATE MATERIAL FOR THE COVE MOLDING. AND LET ME GO BACK TO THAT ELEVATION WITH THE WINDOWS YOU CAN SEE HERE. PROPORTIONALLY, THEY DO SEEM A BIT SMALL FOR THAT ELEVATION. AND I DO HAVE THE FLOOR PLANS THAT YOU SEE HERE. BOTH THE, THE GROUND FLOOR AND THE SECOND FLOOR ARE IDENTICAL. ONE OF THE WINDOWS IS LOCATED IN A RESTROOM, AND THEN IN THE FLEX SPACE AREA ARE THE OTHER TWO WINDOWS. SO WITH THAT YOU CAN APPROVE THE APPLICATION AS SUBMITTED APPROVE IT WITH CONDITIONS OR DENY THE APPLICATION. AND IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, I'LL BE GLAD TO ANSWER. GOT ANY QUESTIONS FOR STAFF? IS THERE ANY DRAWINGS IN THERE FOR THE EXISTING HOUSE IN COMPARISON TO THIS? I DO NOT HAVE THAT. ALL I HAVE ARE PHOTOS. THERE'S. YEAH, THERE'S THE BACK OF ECCENTRICITIES. ON THE LEFT SIDE. DO WE KNOW THE DIFFERENCE IN HEIGHT AND MASSING AND ALL THAT? THAT'S WHY WE ASKED FOR IT. SO WE CAN SEE THE DIFFERENCE IN DETAILING, TOO. AND IS THERE A I MEAN, I SEE THE HOUSE, BUT WE DON'T KNOW HOW BIG THE, YOU KNOW, THE NEW STRUCTURE IS TASB, YOU KNOW. YEAH. IT SHOULD BE SMALLER THAN, YOU KNOW, THAN THE STRUCTURE ITSELF. [00:35:04] IS THAT I MEAN, I SUSPECT THAT MY RECOLLECTION IS THAT IT JUST NEEDS TO BE SMALLER. IT SHOULD BE. I MEAN, WE'RE ASKING TO BE THREE FEET TALLER THAN THE STRUCTURE AT THE TIME ON THE STREET. THE LAST ONE. CHARLOTTE. I DON'T EVEN THINK YOU'RE GOING TO SEE THE HOUSE. THE PROPOSED STRUCTURE BEHIND IT. I'VE BEEN IN THERE, AND I'M SURE THE MAIN FLOOR HAS NINE FOOT CEILINGS. AND I'VE BEEN IN THE OFFICE UPSTAIRS AND PROBABLY EIGHT, BUT I'LL SAY NINE. SO JUST THE SPACE IN BETWEEN. WHAT'S THAT? I'D SAY THAT'S PROBABLY 20FT TALL, 22FT TALL. BUT THAT DOESN'T GIVE YOU CONCRETE. NO, I MEAN, THAT'S WHY WE ASKED FOR WHENEVER WE ASKED FOR, YOU KNOW, A STRUCTURE THAT'S GOING TO BE WITHIN TEN FEET OF THE NEW STRUCTURE. SO WE HAVE THAT SO WE CAN SEE DETAIL. AND I'M ASKING WHAT. THE DETAIL IS QUITE A BIT DIFFERENT THAN THE MAIN STRUCTURE. VERY DIFFERENT. IN FACT. I FEEL LIKE IT'S NINE FEET. I FEEL LIKE I COULD JUMP UP AND LIKE TAP IT AND I CAN'T DO THAT. IT'S SMALL. IT'S AN OLD, IT'S OLD. YEAH, I GET IT. IT'S BEHIND IT. SO IT'S COVERED, BUT IT SHOULDN'T REALLY OVERPOWER IT. AND I DON'T KNOW IF. YOU SPEAK ABOUT THE NEW STRUCTURE, SPEAKING TO THE EXISTING STRUCTURE AT ALL, IT DOESN'T KNOW. THESE TWO ARE VERY FOREIGN WINDOWS. I MEAN, THE SIDING, THE ROOF. MAYBE WE COULD HEAR FROM THE FROM THE APPLICANT ABOUT THE APPLICANT LIKE TO COME UP AND SPEAK. I DON'T THINK WE HAVE. DOES ANYBODY HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR CHARLOTTE FOR STAFF? OKAY. AINSLEY, WOULD YOU MIND COMING UP? THANK YOU. SO THE MAGIC BUTTON. OKAY. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. SO I GUESS THE QUESTION WAS GETTING AT WAS THE THE THOUGHT BEHIND THE DESIGN STYLE VERSUS THE EXISTING MAIN STRUCTURE. AND GET TO THOSE PHOTOS. YEAH. OH, THEY'RE IN FRONT. OKAY. ALL RIGHT. THE ECCENTRICITIES BUILDING. DO YOU NEED. I DON'T HAVE THOSE. WHERE'S THE ONE THAT WAS THE FRONT OF THE. THE BACK IS FINE. I. GUESS SO. AND I THINK CHARLOTTE WOULD BE IN AGREEANCE WITH THIS. THAT BUILDING WOULD HAVE NEVER PASSED TODAY. I DIDN'T TRY TO. I DIDN'T REALLY TRY TO MATCH IT. NOW, IF WE GO TO. LET'S SEE IF WE CAN GO TO THE BACK AGAIN. LOOKS LIKE AN OLD BEACH HOUSE. I DON'T KNOW WHY. BECAUSE THIS IS NOT THE POWERPOINT. SO THAT'S WHY WE'RE IN A ATTACHMENT TO THE AGENDA THAT THAT ACTUALLY THAT BUILDING YOU'RE SEEING IS JACOB THE BACK OF JACOB'S POTTERY BUILDING. SO AND THEN GO TO THERE, THERE, THERE, THERE. IF YOU ALL WANT, WE COULD CHANGE THE HORIZONTAL SIDING TO A HARDIE BOARD AND BATTEN LIKE THE UPPER SECTION OF THE EXIT RECESS. SO I JUST FOR DISCUSSION. THE CARRIAGE HOUSE SECTION SAYS CHARACTERISTICS. IT'S A DETACHED OR ACCESSORY STRUCTURE, AND AN ATTACHED STRUCTURE MUST BE CLEARLY INCIDENTAL TO, SMALLER THAN, AND DISTINGUISHED FROM THE PRIMARY BUILDING FORM. BUT IT DOESN'T REALLY GO INTO A LOT OTHER THAN THAT SAME GENERAL CHARACTER AS THE PRIMARY STRUCTURE, BUT I THINK IT'S THE SAME HERE. WE'VE IT'S A, YOU KNOW, 70S, 80S KIND OF HOME IN EVERY THERE'S NOTHING THAT I MEAN, THERE COULD JUST BE SIMPLE MATERIAL CHANGES THAT AT LEAST RELATE TO IT A LITTLE BIT, LIKE BOARD AND BATTEN. I MEAN, IT'S THE WINDOWS I CAN'T MATCH THOSE WINDOWS STUFF IS IS COMPLETE OPPOSITE OF THIS HOUSE. SO IT'S LIKE ANOTHER BUILDING ON THAT SITE. BUT TO MATCH THE EGGS AND CHEESE AND HE'S, I MEAN IT COULD BE SOME THERE'S A, THERE'S A BALANCE. I THINK THE UDO TAKES PRECEDENT WHERE WE WANT IT TO LOOK HISTORICAL, WHICH IS WHAT YOU'RE DOING, [00:40:04] WHICH IS GREAT. AND THEN THERE'S ALSO THE RELATING BACK TO THE EXISTING STRUCTURE LIKE YOU SUGGESTED. MAYBE WE DO BOARD AND BATTEN ON THE SECOND FLOOR. SOMETHING. SOMETHING TO MAKE THEM BOARD AND BATTEN. I WOULD PREFER TO DO IT ACTUALLY, ON BOTH STORIES. OKAY. YEAH. MY POINT IS WE'RE HAVING TWO PRIMARY BUILDINGS ON THIS. IF THEY'RE COMPLETELY OPPOSITE ON A SITE AND ONE IS WE'RE NOT INTRODUCING A NEW MATERIAL THOUGH WITH THE LAP SIDING BECAUSE THERE'S LAP SIDING ON THAT LITTLE ADDITION THERE. SO THERE'S ALREADY THE LAP SIDING. I MEAN, I, I WOULD HAVE ATTACKED THIS AS THE ATTACK STRUCTURE IN THE SAME WAY. COMPLETELY NEW BUILDING. I WOULD HAVE ATTACKED THIS THE SAME WAY AS KIND OF A LITTLE JEWEL BOX THING SITTING BEHIND THIS. I MEAN, IT'S SMALLER THAN THAT. BUILDING IS KIND OF A BIG SQUARE. IT'S ABOUT THE SAME HEIGHT, BUT THE ROOF HAS MORE PITCH TO IT, WHICH NEEDS TO NO MATTER WHAT, BECAUSE THAT ROOF IS SO FLAT ON THE EXISTING HOUSE. AND I'M NOT SAYING IT NEEDS TO MATCH THE HOUSE. I THINK IT HAS TO HAVE SOME RELATIONSHIP AT SOME POINT. I THINK THERE'S WAYS OF DOING IT, EVEN IF IT'S MATERIALS. I JUST DON'T WANT TO HAVE TWO TO EXISTING HOUSES THAT ARE, YOU KNOW, SIMILAR IN SCALE AND HEIGHT AND COMPLETELY TWO DIFFERENT. AND ONE IS AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE THAT'S THREE FEET FROM THE PROPERTY LINE AND AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE TO GET AWAY OF THAT. YEAH, THAT'S MY POINT. I MEAN, I THINK IT LOOKS GREAT. I JUST IT'S JUST FOREIGN TO WHERE IT'S BEHIND. WHAT WOULD YOU SUGGEST? I MEAN, IT'S IN CONTEXT WITH IT WITH IT'S IN CONTEXT WITH THE LAP SIDING STRUCTURE RIGHT NEXT TO IT ON THE PLOTTING STUDIO AND ALSO THE LAP SIDING ON THE LITTLE ADDITION BEHIND THE BUILDING AND STUFF ON THE BASE. THEY'RE NOT ADDING LAP SIDING TO THAT SITE. COMMISSIONER FRAZIER, DO YOU HAVE THOUGHTS? I JUST HAD TO MOVE DOWN. AWAY? YEAH, SCREEN'S NOT WORKING DOWN HERE. SO I KNOW THAT'S WHAT THE UDO SAYS, BUT I CAN DRIVE ALL OVER BLUFFTON AND FIND NUMEROUS EXAMPLES, ESPECIALLY HOMES THAT ARE FACING THE RIVER WHERE THEIR BACK HOUSE, THE BACK GUEST HOUSE OR OUTHOUSES DON'T MATCH THE PRIMARY BUILDING AT ALL. SO I WOULD ARGUE WHAT IS ACTUALLY HAPPENING IN BLUFFTON VERSUS THE YOU KNOW, IT'S MORE OF AN EXISTENTIAL QUESTION. I SOMETIMES THINK WAS A TEMPLATE FROM SOME OTHER TOWN THAT THEY JUST USED AGAIN. AND IT THERE ARE NUANCES TO BLUFFTON THAT THE UDO IS NOT GOING DOESN'T ADDRESS VERY WELL. AND ONE OF THEM IS THAT THERE IS A LOT OF HODGEPODGE GOING ON IN OLD HISTORIC STRUCTURES AND THE CONTEXT OF THE YARD. SO I JUST THINK THIS IS GOING TO BE ONE OF THEM. AND I IT'S HARD TO PLAY HOMAGE TO A BUILDING THAT WAS PROBABLY BUILT IN THE, I DON'T KNOW, 1960S. AND IT'S OKAY. IT'S ECCENTRIC TO HAVE SOMETHING A LITTLE DIFFERENT. I WOULD TOTALLY GET IT IF I HAD TO PLAY HOMAGE TO THAT BUILDING. THAT IS WHAT USED TO BE PAUL PINCKNEYS HOUSE. PAUL AND LUCILLE, I THINK THAT WAS THEIRS. AND HE PROBABLY JUST SLAPPED SOME MATERIALS TOGETHER FROM I DON'T KNOW WHERE. SO THE QUESTION I GET THE BACK I DO LIKE THE IDEA OF SOME KIND IN SOME RESEMBLANCE OF WHAT'S UP THERE. THIS IS NOT A CONTRIBUTING RESOURCE. THIS HOUSE COULD BE TORN DOWN. SO YOU DON'T WANT TO GO TOTALLY OPPOSITE OF IT. BUT YOU ALSO KNOW IF YOU WERE TO BE CALLED BACK IN TO REBUILD SOMETHING HERE, THEN IT'S GONNA HAVE TO MATCH THE BUILDING YOU'RE BUILDING, RIGHT? SO MY LAYMAN'S THOUGHT IS TO KEEP SOME KIND OF BOARD AND BATTEN. DO YOU HAVE TO HAVE SHUTTERS? YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU HAVE SOME. YOU GOTTA HAVE THEM ALL. BUT WHAT DOES THE CODE PLAY INTO THAT? I THINK YOU'RE GOING TO BE CLOSE TO THE HEIGHT. I KNOW THAT BUILDING. I CAN'T PROVE IT, AND I CAN'T GUARANTEE IT. BUT YOUR HEIGHT IS NOT VERY TALL ON THAT ONE. I THINK IT'S 19FT PLUS THE ROOF LINE. I AGREE. THAT'S MY THOUGHT TO KEEP IT, BECAUSE THIS BUILDING COULD BE DEMOLISHED. THIS IS NOT SOMETHING THAT'S IMPORTANT IN OUR HISTORY, RIGHT? OTHER THAN IT'S A LONG TIME RESIDENTS. OLD JIM WALTERS HOUSE, PROBABLY. THAT'S JUST KIND OF BEING RATIONAL ABOUT IT AND TRYING TO ABIDE BY THE UDO AT THE SAME TIME IS MY GUESS. [00:45:02] YEAH. I MEAN, AND REALLY THE YOU KNOW, I AM IN SUPPORT OF A CARRIAGE HOUSE BEING A DIFFERENT KIND OF MATERIAL AND STYLE BECAUSE HISTORICALLY THAT'S A LOT OF, YOU KNOW, THAT CARRIAGE HOUSE WAS KIND OF A BARN STRUCTURE. AND ACCESSORY STRUCTURES USUALLY HISTORICALLY TEND TO TAKE A SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT CHARACTER THAN THE HOUSE, ESPECIALLY WHEN THEY'RE SMALLER SCALE OR MORE AGRARIAN. I THINK THERE'S A LITTLE BIT MORE LEEWAY IN THIS THAN IT NEEDING TO NECESSARILY HAVE THE BOARD AND BATTEN, BUT YEAH, I'M IN THE SAME CAMP. ARE THERE ANY OTHER STRONG FEELINGS EITHER WAY? NO, I AGREE. I MEAN, THIS IS COMPLETELY IT'S A UNIQUE SITUATION. OKAY. LET'S GO TO THE TWO DETERMINATIONS REAL QUICK. ONE OF THEM WAS THE WINDOWS ON THE EAST AND NORTH SIDE. THANK YOU. AINSLEY. WHICH I'M PERSONALLY FINE WITH. I HAVE STRONG FEELINGS. SO THE QUESTION WAS THE SCALE OF THEM? YEAH, WITH HOW SMALL THEY ARE, IF THERE WERE ANY ISSUES WITH THAT. PERSONALLY, I JUST THINK IT LOOKS FUNNY ON THE SIDE OF THE BUILDING BECAUSE YOU HAVE THIS BIG SPACE HERE, AND THEN THE WINDOWS ARE ALL KIND OF HODGEPODGE TOGETHER. IS THERE A WAY TO SPACE THEM OUT OR ADD ANOTHER WINDOW TO MAKE IT LOOK? HI Y'ALL. I'M ELIZABETH CHARLOTTE, CAN YOU GO TO THE FLOOR PLAN PART OF WHAT'S. AND I DID SEE THAT ONE OF THE WINDOWS WAS IN THE BATHROOM. YEAH. DICTATING THIS IS AND I AND I THE RESTROOM. RIGHT. AND THE GRAB BAR. SO I'VE GOT TO KEEP THAT WINDOWSILL A LITTLE HIGHER, AND I'VE GOT TO KEEP IT A LITTLE SMALLER TO MAKE THAT GRAB BAR WORK. THEN I JUST CENTERED THE OTHER WINDOW AND THEN TOOK THE SAME SPACING TO MAKE IT SYMMETRICAL. SO THAT'S BUT AS FAR AS THE SIZE OF THE WINDOW, I WOULD ALMOST IT'S REALLY HARD BEHIND THE OFFICE BECAUSE YOU'VE GOT A WASH, A STACKED WASHER AND DRYER BECAUSE THERE'S A POTENTIAL A SALON COULD COME IN. AND THEN. SO YOU'VE GOT THAT AND THE RESTROOM, AND THEN I'VE GOT A KITCHENETTE. SO IT'S IT'S REALLY HARD TO PLACE A LARGE TO MATCH THE OTHER WINDOW SIZES ON THAT SIDE, UNLESS I JUST DO IT IN A FLEX SPACE AND THEN JUST NOT HAVE A WINDOW IN THE RESTROOM OR NEAR THE THE THE COFFEE BAR AREA. WELL, WE DID THIS WITH RESTROOMS BEFORE, LIKE THE TOILET COULD BE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WALL. I THINK IF YOU SPACE THOSE OUT AND MOVED THEM OVER OVERLAY TWO FEET EACH. IT DOES APPEAR TO BE A LITTLE MORE BALANCED. I MEAN, YOU COULD PUT THE TOILET. WHERE THE WHERE THE SINK IS THE SINK. I MEAN, THAT STUFF I THINK YOU CAN REARRANGE. I I'LL HAVE TO CHECK BECAUSE THERE ARE CERTAIN CLEARANCES YOU HAVE TO HAVE AROUND PLUMBING FIXTURES FOR THE HANDICAPPED CODES. THAT'S TRUE. THAT'S THAT'S A BIG RESTROOM. THEY'VE GOTTEN VERY LARGE, AND THEN PEOPLE PUT FURNITURE IN THEM. BUT. HOW'S EVERYBODY ELSE FEEL? I'M PERSONALLY OKAY WITH THAT SIDE ELEVATION. I MEAN, I GET THE RESTRAINTS AND IT'S SIDE ELEVATION ON A NEIGHBORING PROPERTY THAT IS NOT PROMINENT. IT'S A LITTLE QUIRKY, WHICH WE DETERMINE IS VERY BLUFFTON, WHICH IS FINE WITH ME. I THINK THE DETERMINATION WAS REALLY ABOUT THE THE SIZE OF IT, THE THE PROPORTIONS, OVERALL PROPORTIONS OF THAT ELEVATIONS, WHICH THEY'RE SMALL. BUT I MEAN, I'M OKAY WITH IT. I AGREE WITH AND TIM AND I DISAGREED AT HCRC. BUT I, I KIND OF FELT LIKE THAT SIDE USUALLY WHEN WE SEE DIFFERENT KIND OF TAKES ON PROPORTION IN BLUFFTON, IT'S ALSO COMING WITH SOME DISORGANIZATION AND IT'S FELT VERY ORGANIZED AND THOUGHTFUL. AND THE LITTLE BIT OF ECCENTRICITY TO THE PROPORTIONS I THOUGHT WAS KIND OF IN KEEPING WITH BLUFFTON. BLUFFTON ECCENTRICITIES. SO I WAS OKAY WITH IT. ANY OTHER THOUGHTS? NOT FALL ON THE SWORD. OKAY. THE OTHER DETERMINATION THAT WE NEEDED, WE NEEDED TO TALK ABOUT IS THE PVC TRIM, WHICH I'M OKAY WITH FROM A PROFESSIONAL STANDPOINT, PVC IS SOMETHING THAT A LOT OF PEOPLE ARE MOVING TO FROM FOR TRIM, BECAUSE IT IT HOLDS UP WELL. [00:50:06] IT LOOKS FINE, ESPECIALLY IF IT'S UP THAT HIGH. AND WE'RE DOING IT FOR HANDRAILS AND AND ON PORCHES FOR BRACKETS, THINGS LIKE THAT, WHERE IT'S JUST, IT MAKES A LOT OF SENSE. PVC IS NOT REALLY WHAT YOU THINK OF IN THE FORM OF LIKE 90S PVC PIPING. SO I'M PERSONALLY OKAY WITH THAT. BUT IF SOMEONE FEELS STRONGLY ABOUT IT, OTHERWISE, I HOPE WE GO TOWARDS THIS NEW SUSTAINABLE TYPE OF MATERIALS SOME POINT IN OUR WORLD TO CHANGE ALL THIS. SO YOU DON'T HAVE TO KEEP ASKING US. YEAH, BUT I'M FINE WITH IT. OKAY. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANT? THANK YOU. ANSLEY. AND WE WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION. THAT WILL INCLUDE THE CONDITIONS. I DON'T THINK WE HAD ANY CONDITIONS. ANY CONDITIONS. OKAY, THEN I'LL GO TO BATON. NO, I MEAN, DOES ANYBODY FEEL SUPER? NOT THAT IT SHOULD HAVE GENERAL CHARACTERISTICS OF BUILDING. I JUST FEEL LIKE THIS HAS NO CHARACTERISTICS OF THAT. I AGREE A LITTLE BIT WITH THAT. I MEAN IT HAS NOTHING. IT'S COMPLETE OPPOSITE. AND IT SAYS IN THE UDO MUST BE SAME GENERAL CHARACTER AS A PRIMARY STRUCTURE CLEARLY IS DAY AND IT HAS NOTHING. I MEAN I MEAN METAL ROOF IS THERE. I MEAN EVERYTHING IS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT. I THINK THERE COULD BE SOME, SOME SOMETHING THAT GIVE IT A LITTLE BIT RESEMBLANCE TO THE PRIMARY STRUCTURE. SOUNDS LIKE YOU'RE TEED UP TO MAKE A MOTION THEN. YOU LIKE TO. OKAY, I'LL MAKE A MOTION. SURE I'LL TRY. YOU CAN AMEND IT. GO AHEAD, I MOVE. WE FIND AGREE WITH THE STAFF RECOMMENDATION ON THIS SECTION TO INCLUDE BOARD AND BATTEN FEATURES ON THE CARRIAGE HOME, INSTEAD OF WHAT WAS PRESENTED AT A SITE FEATURE PERMIT WILL BE GIVEN TO STAFF. THAT COMMISSION IS SATISFIED WITH THE PVC AS AN APPROPRIATE MATERIAL, AND WE ARE FINE WITH THE WINDOW PROPORTIONS OF THE REAR EAST ELEVATION. OKAY. IS THERE A SECOND? SECOND. IS THERE ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. ANY OPPOSED? THE MOTION IS PASSED. I DO HAVE ONE QUICK QUESTION. YES. I'M GOING TO TRY TO MIMIC THE BOARD'S CONCERNS. IT'S INTERESTING, BUT CAN I USE HARDY PRODUCTS INSTEAD OF. BECAUSE THAT'S PROBABLY WOOD THAT'S ON. THAT'S FINE. THANK YOU. SO DOES THAT NEED TO BE AMENDED? I DON'T HARDY IS BORN BAD IS SIMILAR MATERIAL. MATERIAL? YEAH. I'M SURE. HE LOVES THAT COLOR. THAT KIND OF BONE COLOR. OKAY. YEAH. MOTION STANDS. THAT'S FINE. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. YEAH. OKAY. HISTORIC DISTRICT MONTHLY UPDATE. ALRIGHTY. SO THE SITE FEATURES THIS PAST MONTH HAVE MOSTLY BEEN NEW SIGNS. [VIII.1.Historic District Monthly Update. (Staff)] WE HAVE A REPLACEMENT FENCE THAT WAS APPROVED ON LAWRENCE STREET AND ALSO MANUFACTURED. HOME IS DOING SOME EXTERIOR REMODELING. AND THAT'S IT. AND I DO WANT TO FOLLOW UP, TOO, WITH TRAINING OPPORTUNITIES. STAFF SENT OUT AN EMAIL. THE NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF PRESERVATION COMMISSIONERS HAS AN OPPORTUNITY FOR YOU TO VIEW A WEBINAR. AND IF YOU RECALL, THERE IS A REQUIREMENT THAT YOU HAVE THREE HOURS OF TRAINING YEARLY. AND THAT'S REQUIRED BY OUR CERTIFIED LOCAL GOVERNMENT REQUIREMENT. SO IF YOU HAVEN'T DONE YOUR TRAINING YET, TODAY IS THE FIRST DAY OF THE NEW YEAR TO DO THAT. AND WE DO KEEP TRACK OF THAT. AND WE WILL REMIND YOU IF IT LOOKS LIKE YOU'RE NOT MEETING THAT REQUIREMENT. SO AND THAT IS ALL I HAVE. OKAY. ANY QUESTIONS? I DO HAVE A QUESTION BECAUSE NORMALLY THEY SEND US EMAILS WHEN THOSE CLASSES ARE COMING UP. WOULD THAT BE THE CASE AS WELL. JUST YES. OKAY. YEAH. THE WEBINARS COMING UP. AND I DON'T RECALL WHAT DAY, BUT YOU SHOULD HAVE RECEIVED AN EMAIL THIS WEEK LETTING YOU KNOW. SO WE CAN ALL JOIN IN. I MUST HAVE MISSED IT. IT WAS THIS AFTERNOON. IT WAS. IT WAS TODAY. YEAH. OH, THAT I MOST DEFINITELY. IT'LL BE ON THE RUNNING ALL DAY TODAY. DO YOU HAVE A QUESTION, CHARLOTTE? WHEN IS OUR YEAR END? AND AGAIN, LIKE, WHEN DO I LIKE. I JUST GOT ON HERE. I DID THAT TRAINING. AM I DONE? AND NOW I GOT A NEW, NEW TRAINING. SO. CORRECT. YES. TODAY IS THE BEGINNING OF A NEW YEAR. OKAY. LUCKY YOU. I HAVE. I SEARCHED FOR SURE. DON'T WANT TO DO WHAT I DID. BACK TO ZERO. HORRIBLY BORING. [00:55:02] FOR YOUR. FOR YOUR ANNUAL HOURS. YOUR TERM STARTS WHEN YOU START. CORRECT IT. YES IT DOES. AND YOU ARE FINE RIGHT NOW. SO DO I HAVE TO? NOW IS MY YEAR FOR TODAY. BUT I'M A YEAR FROM WHEN I STARTED. MY TERM STARTED. SO I HAVE A YEAR TO. I'VE ALREADY DONE IT. SO I'M GOOD FOR A YEAR. YES. OKAY. GOOD. GOOD. I WROTE IT ALL DOWN SO I KNOW WHO IS NOT GOOD RIGHT NOW. OKAY. I'M GOOD. SHE'LL GET IN TOUCH WITH YOU. ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU. OKAY. I'M LOOKING FOR A MOTION TO ADJOURN. SO MOVED. SORRY. THERE'S A SECOND. TWO. IS THERE ANY DISCUSSION OF THAT MOTION? OKAY. ALL IN FAVOR? AYE. ANY OPPOSED? NO. MEETING IS ADJOURNED. * This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.