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A CALL TO ORDER FOR THE NOVEMBER HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION MEETING.
UH, IT'S WEDNESDAY, NOVEMBER 6TH, 6:00 PM WHAT'S 6:04 PM UM, CAN I PLEASE GET A ROLL CALL? CHAIRMAN EVAN GOODWIN.
HERE, VICE CHAIRMAN JOE DEPAUL.
[III. NOTICE REGARDING ADJOURNMENT]
THIS IS A NOTICE REGARDING ADJOURNMENT.THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION WILL NOT HEAR NEW ITEMS AFTER 9:30 PM UNLESS AUTHORIZED BY MAJORITY VOTE OF THE COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT ITEMS WHICH HAVE NOT BEEN HEARD BEFORE 9:30 PM MAY BE CONTINUED TO THE NEXT REGULAR MEETING OR SPECIAL MEETING DATE AS DETERMINED BY THE COMMISSION MEMBERS.
[IV. ADOPTION OF MINUTES]
I'M LOOKING FOR AN ADOPTION OF THE MINUTES FROM THE OCTOBER MEETING.UH, DO I HAVE A MOTION? SO MOVED.
DO WE HAVE ANY PUBLIC COMMENT? NO, SIR.
[VII.1. Certificate of Appropriateness (34 Tabby Shell Road, Lot 18): A request by Clear Cut Construction, on behalf of the owner, William Glover, for approval of a Certificate of Appropriateness-HD to allow the construction of a new two-story Single Family Residential structure of approximately 2,325 square feet and an attached Carriage House structure of approximately 1,174 square feet in the Tabby Roads Development in the Old Town Bluffton Historic District and within a Neighborhood General - HD zoning district. (COFA-03-24-019047) (Staff – Charlotte Moore)]
AND WE'LL MOVE ON TO NEW BUSINESS.WE HAVE TWO CERTIFICATES OF APPROPRIATENESS.
UM, AS, UH, THE CHAIRMAN INDICATED WE DO HAVE TWO ITEMS TONIGHT THAT ARE CERTIFICATES OF APPROPRIATENESS.
THE FIRST ONE IS 4 34 TABBY SHELL ROAD, LOCATED WITHIN THE TABBY SHELL ROAD DEVELOPMENT OR TABBY SHELL DEVELOPMENT.
THE APPLICANT IS SEA ISLAND CONSTRUCTION GROUP ON BEHALF OF THE PROPERTY OWNER, WILLIAM GLOVER.
AND THEY ARE SEEKING APPROVAL OF A KOFA HD TO ALLOW THE CONSTRUCTION OF A NEW TWO STORY SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENTIAL STRUCTURE, APPROXIMATELY 2,874 SQUARE FEET.
AND AN ATTACHED TWO STORY, UH, CARRIAGE HOUSE, APPROXIMATELY 1100 SQUARE FEET.
AND HERE IS THE SUBJECT PROPERTY JUST OFF OF BURNT CHURCH ROAD, UH, LOCATED ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF TABBY SHELL.
THE ZONING FOR THE PROPERTY IS NEIGHBORHOOD GENERAL HD.
PROPERTY'S CURRENTLY WOODED, AND HERE IS A SITE PLAN.
UH, THE, UH, THE RESIDENCE HAS CENTER HALL CHARACTERISTICS.
UH, THIS IS TAB SHELL ROAD HERE.
IT WILL HAVE A FULL FACADE, TWO STORY FRONT PORCH.
ADDITIONALLY, THERE ARE PORCHES PROPOSED ALONG THE LEFT ELEVATION, AND THEN IN THE SOUTHWEST CORNER OF THE PROPERTY TOO.
UM, THIS IS IDENTIFIED AS A PATIO AND ALSO POTENTIALLY, UM, STORAGE FOR A GOLF CART.
THE PROPERTY'S LOCATED ON THE LANE AND THE GARAGE WILL BE ACCESSED FROM THE REAR.
AND HERE'S THE FRONT ELEVATION.
I'M JUST GONNA GO THROUGH THE, UH, THE ELEVATION INFORMATION QUICKLY.
AND THIS WOULD BE THE LEFT ELEVATION FACING WEST.
HERE'S THAT PORCH THAT I MENTIONED.
THIS AREA HERE WOULD BE FOR, UH, THE UN ENCLOSED PORCH, POTENTIALLY A GOLF CART, UM, UH, PARKING AREA HERE IS THE EAST ELEVATION, INCLUDING THE SERVICE YARD.
AND THEN THE REAR YELLOW ELEVATION, UH, WITH A TWO CAR GARAGE.
A ROOF PLAN, SORRY, THAT'S NOT A LITTLE BIT CLEARER INTERIOR.
AND, UM, AS YOU CAN SEE HERE, THE, UH, THE CARRIAGE HOUSE IS DETACHED ACCESS TO THE UPPER FLOOR.
THE BONUS ROOM, UM, WILL BE, UH, UH, ACCESSIBLE THROUGH THE INTERIOR OF THE HOUSE.
AND WE HAVE THE FOUNDATION PLAN, FIRST FLOOR FOUNDATION PLAN FOR THE SECOND FLOOR.
I DO HAVE SOME, UH, DETAILS AS WELL IF WE NEED TO GO THROUGH THAT.
UM, AND I AM GOING THROUGH THIS FAIRLY QUICKLY, BUT PLEASE STOP ME IF THERE'S ANYTHING THAT YOU WANT ME TO GO BACK TO.
UM, AS YOU MAY RECALL, WE DO HAVE REVIEW CRITERIA THAT WE ADOPTED BACK IN APRIL.
AND SO WE HAVE TO APPLY THOSE CRITERIA, THE ONES THAT ARE APPLICABLE TO, UH, OUR REVIEWS.
UM, SO THERE ARE FOUR OF THEM.
UM, AND FOR THE MOST PART, UH, WHAT HAS BEEN PRESENTED TO US IS, UH, CONFORMING, UH, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF SOME ITEMS RELATING TO CRITERION TWO.
AND THIS IS THE APPLICATION OF ARTICLE FIVE, THE DESIGN STANDARDS FROM THE UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT ORDINANCE.
AND, UH, I'M GOING THROUGH AGAIN A LITTLE BIT QUICKLY, SLOW ME DOWN IF YOU'D LIKE.
UM, SO BASED ON OUR REVIEW OF WHAT WAS PROVIDED, UM, WE DO HAVE A NUMBER OF CONDITIONS THAT STAFF IS SUGGESTING.
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BE TO INCLUDE OR PROVIDE A FINISHED FLOOR HEIGHT THAT'S THREE FEET ABOVE THE AVERAGE GRADE OF THE ADJACENT SIDEWALK.UM, LOWER THE FRONT DOOR HEIGHT.
AND I CAN GO BACK TO THIS TO SHOW YOU.
UM, REMOVE THE FOUR WALL PANELS THAT WERE, UM, THAT WERE SHOWN.
AND THOSE APPEAR TO BE, UH, BASED ON THE, UH, HARB REQUIREMENTS OR SUGGESTIONS FROM TABBY ROADS.
UH, THERE'S A SUGGESTION OF CREATING A DEEPER INSET ALONG THE LEFT ELEVATION.
SO THERE'S A BIT MORE RE RELIEF ALONG THAT, UH, EASTERN WALL.
A BETTER WAY TO DISTINGUISH BETWEEN THE MAIN RESIDENTS AND THE CARRIAGE HOUSE.
AND THE REST IS MAINLY IDENTIFYING MATERIALS.
THE ROOF MATERIAL WOULD NEED TO BE IDENTIFIED.
THE GUTTER MATERIAL NEEDS SOME ADDITIONAL DETAILS REGARDING THE CORNER AND WATER TABLE ELEMENTS.
UM, I DID INDICATE HERE PROVIDE THE SOFFIT CONFIGURATION UPON FURTHER EXAMINATION, UM, IT WAS NOTED THAT IT WAS TO BE THE GROOVE.
AND THEN THERE'S A COUPLE OF ITEMS HERE RELATED RELATING TO DETERMINATIONS BY THE HP CITE.
UM, THEY DO, UH, THEY ARE PROPOSING HARDY'S SITING FOR THE COLUMN EXTERIOR, WHICH IS NOT A PERMITTED MATERIAL.
AND THERE WAS SOME, UM, I I THINK THE HARB HAD THIS AS WELL AS STAFF.
SOME OF THE DETAILS IN THE COLUMN WEREN'T QUITE CLEAR.
AND SO WE WOULD, UH, SUGGEST THAT COLUMN DETAILS BE PROVIDED.
AND THEN THE OTHER DETERMINATION THAT IS NEEDED, UH, WOULD BE FOR THE PORCH RAILINGS.
AND THE BALUT STRADS, UH, THEY ARE REQUESTING THAT IT BE ALUMINUM, WHICH IS NOT A PERMITTED MATERIAL.
IT EITHER HAS TO BE ROT OR CAST IRON OR WOOD.
SO THOSE IN A NUTSHELL, UM, IS, ARE THE RECOMMENDATIONS OF STAFF.
AND NOW I CAN GO BACK TO THE SHOOT, SORRY, WE GO BACK TO THE ELEVATION, THEN FRONT ELEVATION.
AND I DON'T KNOW, UM, HOW YOU MIGHT LIKE TO DO THIS.
CHAIRMAN, IF YOU WANNA TALK ABOUT THE ELEVATIONS, IF THERE'S ANYTHING SPECIFICALLY, UM, WE NEED TO GO OVER RELATED TO OUR RECOMMENDATIONS.
WOULD THE APPLICANT LIKE TO PRESENT AT ALL OR WAIT UNTIL WE HAVE QUESTIONS? UM, WE CAN WAIT UNTIL YOU HAVE QUESTIONS IF YOU LIKE.
UH, ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS FOR STAFF? THEN WE'LL JUST GO DOWN THE LINE.
ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANT? I DID NOT.
UM, I, I, I HAVE A COUPLE QUESTIONS ON THE WALL SECTION.
WOULD THAT, IF THE APPLICANT COULD COME FORWARD SO WE CAN ASK A FEW QUESTIONS.
UM, ONE OF THE QUESTIONS IS WHAT, SO IF WE'RE LOOKING AT THAT MIDDLE WALL SECTION WITH THE BRACKET, WHAT IS ABOVE THAT HEADER? WHAT MATERIAL IS THAT? DOESN'T REALLY SAY THE MIDDLE WALL SECTION, THE SIDING ABOVE THAT.
SO BASICALLY FROM THE BRACKET ABOVE, THAT COULD BE TYPICAL SIDING, WHICH IS CAKE SHAKES.
I'M SORRY, I'M STILL NOT FOLLOWING FROM THE, THE, SO SEE WHERE THE TOP OF THE BRACKET IS? YES.
SO ABOVE THAT TO THE, TO THE, BASICALLY THE RAFTER.
WHAT IS THAT MATERIAL? THAT'S A, A HEADER OR A GIRDER? IT'S JUST, IT, THEY'RE TYPICALLY PRESSURE TREATED PINE PANEL OVER IT.
SO THE SIDING MATERIAL THAT, IS THAT GONNA BE SIDING LIKE THE REST OF THE HOUSE? THE SIDING MATERIAL? I'M SORRY.
I'M, SO WHEN YOU SAY ABOVE IT, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE CROSS SECTION, THE BEAM THAT, THAT SITS ON TOP OF IT.
I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT THE BEAM ITSELF.
I'M TALKING ABOUT ON THE WALL.
WHAT'S A SIDING MATERIAL FROM, FROM THE TOP OF THAT, WHERE THAT BRACKET COMES TO TOP OF THAT BRACKET, THERE'S A PIECE OF TRIM ON THE WALL AT THE TOP OF THE BRACKET.
THEN THERE'S A VERY TALL SPACE THAT IS UNLABELED.
AND THEN THERE'S ANOTHER PIECE OF TRIM BENEATH THE, UNDER IT WHERE THE SOFFIT COMES INTO THE WALL.
SO THE QUESTION IS, WHAT IS THE MATERIAL BETWEEN THOSE TWO PIECES OF TRIM? SORRY, IS THERE ANY WAY THAT YOU COULD POINT TO IT? YEAH, GO AHEAD.
SO TALKING ABOUT FROM HERE, UHHUH TO THERE, WHAT IS THAT MATERIAL? UH, THAT'S NOT VISIBLE.
I MEAN, IT'S IS VISIBLE WHEN YOU LOOK UP AT THE HOUSE, RIGHT? I MEAN IT HAS SPEED.
THIS IS, THIS IS OUR ARCHITECT KIND OF DOES GENERIC WALL SECTIONS.
AND I DON'T BELIEVE THAT THAT'S
[00:10:01]
GONNA BE THE, BECAUSE IF YOU SEE THERE, YOU SEE THE BLACK PIECE THAT'S SITTING ON TOP OF THE COLUMNS, THAT'S WHAT'S GONNA BE SEEN FROM THE, FROM THE STREET.BUT WHEN YOU'RE UNDERNEATH THERE, YOU'RE GONNA BE ABLE TO SEE IT.
THAT'S, THAT IS THE SOFFIT RIGHT THERE.
WHAT IS, WHAT IS THE SOFFIT? WELL, THE, THE SOFFITS ON AN ANGLE UNDERNEATH THE SOFFIT IS, IS IS RAKING UP WITH THE YEAH, THIS IS THE SOFFIT HERE.
IT'S ON THE TOP OF THE ROUTE HERE.
NO, THAT'S, THE SOFFIT WILL BE UNDER ESSENTIALLY WHERE THE, YOU KNOW, AND LIKE I SAID, THE ARCHITECT MAY HAVE SOMEWHAT DRAWN IT INCORRECTLY, BUT THE, ARE YOU SAYING THERE'S A PLAN SO THAT COMES HERE? IS THAT NOT
SO, SO YOUR INTENT IS NOT TO BUILD FROM THE DETAILS PROVIDED TO THE BOARD, UM, BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT WE'RE REVIEWING TO APPROVE.
SO IF YOU GUYS ARE MAKING BIG CHANGES LIKE THAT THEN TO, TO NO, TO BE HONEST WITH YOU, I HAVE, I HONESTLY HAVE NOT EXAMINED THESE IN PARTICULAR DETAIL.
LIKE I SAID, A LOT OF TIMES HE, HE DOES THESE, UM, THE DETAILS ARE SOMEWHAT GENERIC AND UH, HE NEEDS TO, THESE ARE TO THE HOUSE.
I, I THINK WHAT TIM WAS GETTING AT IS THAT WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE THAT BE SIDING, RIGHT? I I THINK THAT NEEDS TO BE SIDING.
IT COULD BE SEEN, IT WOULD DEFINITELY BE SID.
SO, SO WHAT I'D LIKE TO SEE IS A HEADER DETAIL.
SO IT MATCHES WHAT'S ON THE INSIDE.
THE INSIDE IS THE HEADER TRIM PIECE.
AND THEN ABOVE THAT BE SIDING THE MATCH THE REST OF THE HOUSE.
UM, IF YOU GO TO THE, THE ELEVATIONS, THERE'S WHATEVER THAT SIDE IS, IT'S A SHAKE.
SO THAT, THAT'S WHAT THAT SHOULD BE.
AND IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S A PANEL RIGHT NOW.
SO I JUST DON'T WANT IT TO BE A FOREIGN DETAIL.
'CAUSE YOU KNOW, WE WALKED HIM THROUGH THE DESIGN OF THE HOUSE, AND MY ORIGINAL INTENTIONS WERE THAT THE BRACKETS WOULD BE FLUSH WITH THE SOFFIT.
LIKE YOU TYPICALLY SEE IT'S JUST A, YOU KNOW, IT'S KIND OF A, UM, I MEAN, IT, IT LOOKS LIKE, I KNOW YOU'RE SAYING, BUT THAT IS NOT WHAT'S DRAWN THAT THAT'S RIGHT.
UM, WELL, I WISH THAT'S BEEN APPROVED.
THERE'S NOT A FLAT SOFFIT AROUND THE REST OF THE HOUSE, SO I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU TRANSITIONED TO THAT.
IF, IF YOU SEE THERE IS, THERE IS A FLAT SOFF.
IF YOU LOOK AT THE ELEVATIONS, YOU CAN KIND OF SEE THAT IT'S, IT'S FLAT RIGHT THERE.
YOU SEE THE WELL, I SEE IT'S FLAT.
BUT WHEN YOU LOOK AT THIS, IF YOU LOOK AT THIS DETAIL, ALL, ALL OF 'EM, ALL RIGHT, THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING.
THIS DEAL, THIS DETAIL'S INCORRECT.
YOU GUYS HAVE THE LAPTOP IN FRONT OF YOU.
COULD YOU CODE TO THE ELEVATION SHEET SO WE CAN SEE, I'M NOT SURE HOW TO OPERATE THIS.
IF YOU GO LEFT AND RIGHT ON THE KEYS, I THINK YOU WANTED THE FRONT ELEVATION.
UH, PROBABLY THAT SIDE ONE I THINK WAS WHAT HE WAS POINTING OUT.
SEE IT'S A, IT'S A FLAT SOFFIT ALL THE WAY AROUND AND THE BRACKET WILL GO UP AGAINST THE SOFFIT.
UM, AND THEN I DID NOTICE THAT SHE HAD MENTIONED THAT IT WAS V GROOVE.
WE, WE HADN'T PLANNED ON DOING V GROOVE.
WE CAN DO V GROOVE IN THE SOFFIT.
IT WAS JUST GONNA BE FLAT, UM, HARDY MATERIAL.
THAT'S, THAT'S NOT AN APPROVED MATERIAL.
IN THE, IN THE OLD TOWN DISTRICT.
'CAUSE WE BUILT U REQUIRE, WE BUILT TWO HOUSES IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT V, THE VI WOULDN'T SAY THAT OUT LOUD.
I MEAN, WE, YEAH, WE, WE WENT THROUGH THIS PROCESS THAT WAS, YOU KNOW, UM, AND THEY'RE, THEY'RE NOT JUST OURS.
IF YOU LOOK AROUND THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, UM, YEAH, V GROOVE IS THE, IS THE APPROVED, UM, MATERIAL FOR, FOR SOFFIT IN THE UDO.
SO ALL THE DETAILS ARE SHOWING AN, UH, ENCLOSED INCLINED SOFFIT WITH THE EXCEPTION OF THE SCREEN PORCH, WHICH AN OPEN RAPTOR, RIGHT? RIGHT.
THE DE THE DETAIL, LIKE, LIKE I SAID, THAT DETAIL IS WRONG AND THE DETAIL HAS A BRACKET HIGHER.
SO WE'LL NEED TO SEE AN UPDATED DETAIL.
SO V GROOVE, THAT'S THE ONLY PERMITTED MATERIAL FOR, FOR SOFFITS.
DOES IT HAVE TO BE WOOD OR IT CAN ONLY BE V GROOVE IN THE SOFFIT IN OLD TOWN IT'S A V GROOVE OR BEAD DOWN.
SO THE, THE SOFFITS HAVE TO HAVE GROOVES IN 'EM.
UNLESS IT, IT'S IN HISTORIC STRUCTURE THAT TRADITIONALLY HAD IT WHERE THEY'RE REPLACING IN KIND OR MATCHING IN KIND.
AND WE'VE ALLOWED IT IN PLACE OF HISTORIC PLYWOOD.
THERE'S SOME LOCATIONS WOULD'VE BEEN ACTUAL PLYWOOD, JUST SHEETS USED FOR THE SOFFITS IN THE PAST AND GOT IT.
AS PEOPLE HAVE RENOVATED, WE'VE ALLOWED, I, I DEFINITELY LIKE THE LOOK.
IT'S, IT'S AN ELEVATED LOOK AND JUST A SMOOTH SOFFIT.
SO, SO, UH, WHILE WE'RE ON THIS VIEW, WHAT WERE THE THOUGHTS ON THE RAILING? BECAUSE I DON'T THINK WE HAVE A RAILING DETAIL OTHER THAN THE FACT THAT IT'S ALUMINUM.
THAT'S PROBABLY, WE'RE GOING TO GET AN ELEVATION,
[00:15:02]
I THINK.YEAH, I THINK IT'S JUST DRAWN IN, IN ELEVATION AS HORIZONTAL BARS.
IS THAT THE YEAH, HE'S, HE DOESN'T HAVE A DETAIL FOR IT, IT LOOKS LIKE.
I MEAN, TYPICALLY IN THE PAST WHEN CONSIDERING ALUMINUM AS A SUBSTITUTE MATERIAL, UM, YOU KNOW, SECOND PORCH IS ONE CONSIDERATION.
THE OTHER ONE IS THAT YOU HAVE A, A DETAIL THAT SHOWS THE PARTS AND PIECES AND TYPICALLY IS MORE OF LIKE AN ALUMINUM, LIKE ART CAP KIND OF RAIL, A LITTLE BIT MORE OF A TRADITIONAL DESIGN TO IT.
AND THEN THE SUBSTITUTE MATERIAL IS MORE ABOUT THE LONGEVITY OF THE PRODUCT.
SO SPOT IRON, BUT STILL KIND OF TAKING SOME DESIGN CUES FROM WHAT WOULD'VE TYPICALLY BEEN A BROAD IRON OR STEEL DESIGN.
YEAH, IT IS, THIS IS A LITTLE BIT MORE OF A MODERN KIND OF LOOK, BUT, UM, LIKE DIRECTLY ACROSS THE STREET, THE, THE HOUSE THAT WE BUILT TWO YEARS AGO HAS THE SAME STYLE.
UM, IT KIND OF, KIND OF MATCHES KELLY, KAREN DESIGN BUILDING.
I'M NOT SURE IF THAT'S IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, BUT I WOULD IMAGINE IT IS.
UM, SO, YOU KNOW, IT'S, IT'S BEEN, AND, AND ALSO THE HOUSE WE JUST COMPLETED IN JUNE, UH, RIGHT DOWN THE STREET FROM THIS ONE AT SIX WILDS BAR TINA, THEY HAD THE SAME HORIZONTAL BALLISTERS.
UM, AND IT'S, IT'S ACTUALLY POWDER COATED ALUMINUM, SO IT'S THE SAME.
I I NEVER KNEW THAT WE WEREN'T ALLOWED TO USE ALUMINUM.
BUT THAT ONE WAS, WE, WE'VE DONE IT ACTUALLY SEVEN PEARL STREET, WE DID POWDER COATED STEEL.
UM, BUT, UH, SO TECHNICALLY THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO BE WROUGHT IRON, IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? YEAH, I MEAN, I, THERE'S A ENTIRE SECTION IN THE UDO THAT GOES THROUGH THE ALLOWED MATERIALS FOR THINGS LIKE EAVES AND THERE'S AN EAVE SECTION, THERE'S A BAER SECTION, THERE'S A PORCH SECTION.
THERE'S, I MEAN, IT'S PRETTY DETAILED.
IF YOU GUYS ARE GONNA CONTINUE TO WORK IN OLD TOWN, YOU SHOULD LOOK AT THOSE SECTIONS.
I MEAN, IT'S GOT THE STUFF LISTED.
SO, I MEAN, I'VE ONLY BEEN ON THE BOARD FOR A YEAR.
SO YOU CAN PROBABLY SPEAK BETTER TO THE REVIEW FOR THOSE.
YEAH, I MEAN, A LOT OF, AND A LOT OF THAT IS, UM, OUR MATERIALS THAT YOU COULD BRING UP AT, AT THE PRE-APP, UM, MEETING, WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, REQUIRED TO, TO GO THROUGH THIS PROCESS.
BUT YEAH, WE DO OFTEN APPROVE, UH, POWDERCOATED ALUMINUM JUST AS LONG AS IT HAS A HISTORICAL, HISTORICAL LOOKING CAP.
UH, BUT TO YOUR POINT, YEAH, WE'VE, WE'VE DONE IT QUITE A BIT.
IT IS A CASE BY CASE BASIS BECAUSE IT'S NOT AN APPROVED MATERIAL, SO.
AND WHEN YOU SAY CAP, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE GUARDRAIL? THE ACTUAL GUARDRAIL OF IT, YES.
UM, SO WHAT, WHAT DO YOU LIKE TO SEE FOR THAT YOU LIKE, UM, UM, SOME PROFILE THAT WILL MATCH, LIKE A HISTORIC PROFILE OF WHAT YOU WOULD SEE IN A ROD IRON HANDRAIL? UH, OKAY.
SO IT CAN'T BE LIKE A ONE BY TWO KIND OF FLAT? WE'VE PROVED IT IN THE PAST.
IT'S ON, I MEAN, IF THAT'S APPROVED, I MEAN, THERE'S SEVERAL PLACES, I SUPPOSE.
I DON'T, I DON'T PERSONALLY HAVE AN ISSUE WITH IT, UM, ESPECIALLY ON, ON A DESIGN LIKE THIS, BUT THAT'S UP FOR THE BOARD TO APPROVE OR FOR THE COMMISSION TO APPROVE.
I, I JUST KNOW WE'VE HAD EXTENSIVE DISCUSSIONS ABOUT IT IN MORE HISTORIC, UH, APPLICATIONS.
YOU KNOW, UM, RENOVATIONS TO HISTORIC STRUCTURES AND THOSE TYPES OF ELEMENTS.
THIS IS HEAVY ROADS AND IT'S RIGHT ACROSS THE STREET, SO I FEEL LIKE IT'S HARD TO NOT APPROVE IT.
AGAIN, THE TWO, UM, THE, THE HOUSE WE BUILT AT SEVEN PEARL STREET, WHICH IS RIGHT CATTY CORNER TO THIS ONE.
IT'S NOT ALUMINUM, BUT THE, THAT'S THE EXACT SAME DESIGN THAT WE BUILT.
UM, AND THEN SAME THING AT SIX WILDS PARTINA, ACTUALLY THE A RB IN TABBY ROADS, UM, USES OUR HOUSES AS LIKE EXAMPLES OF WHAT THEY WANT.
UM, BUT AGAIN, IF IT'S NOT TECHNICALLY HISTORIC, YOU KNOW, HISTORIC DISTRICT, I GET IT.
SO THE, THE, ONE OF THE QUESTIONS IS TO CLARIFY ON THESE COLUMNS ARE THESE ARE STRAIGHT COLUMNS.
THERE'S A LINE DRAWN IN THE MIDDLE OF 'EM.
IT ALMOST LOOKS LIKE THEY'RE NOT PENALIZED, I GUESS IS WHAT I'M SAYING.
YEAH, THEY WERE, I WAS, I HAD INTENDED THEM TO BE SHAKER, LIKE SHAKER LIKE SHAKER INSET PANELS IN ALL FOUR SIDES.
UM, AND WE WERE GONNA DO THAT WITH, WE CAN DO IT WITH HARDY, WE CAN DO IT WITH WOOD.
UM, IF YOU GUYS DON'T LIKE THE SHAKER DESIGN, OBVIOUSLY WE CAN JUST DO, YOU KNOW, YOUR TYPICAL SQUARE STRAIGHT COLUMN WITH SOME SORT OF A, A BASE DETAIL AND SOME SORT OF A, A CAP DETAIL.
I, I DON'T KNOW IF THEY'RE WIDE ENOUGH TO DO THE SHAKER.
I, I THINK IT NEEDS TO BE THE SQUARE.
I YOU'RE NOT, YOU'RE GONNA GET A REAL TINY MIDDLE SECTION.
I WANTED 'EM TO BE KIND OF FATTER, LIKE 12 INCH COLUMNS AT LEAST.
I'M NOT SURE WHAT HE'S DRAWING ON THERE.
CAN YOU GO TO THE WALL, I THINK IT'S CALLED ON A WALL SECTION.
IT EITHER BOTH 10 INCH UP AND DOWN IS WHAT THEY CALLED OUT AS.
I MEAN, IS THAT, IS THAT SHAKER THOUGHT DETAILED IN THE, IN HIS DETAIL IT STRAIGHT JUST SHOWING? THAT'S WHAT I RECALL.
AGAIN, LIKE I SAID, THE DETAILS, I FEEL LIKE HE, HE KIND OF SOMETIMES
[00:20:01]
JUST THROWS THAT A GENERIC, UH, THING ON THERE.UM, AGAIN, THIS IS, THIS IS KIND OF MORE BUILDER GRADE PLANS AT THIS POINT.
UM, BUT I'LL, I'LL HAVE HIM REVISE THE DETAILS FOR SURE.
TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY MATCH THOSE ELEVATIONS.
AND THEN IS THE PURPOSE TO HAVE A CAP AND A BASE? YOU HAVE A CAP ON IT? YES.
IT LOOKS LIKE YOU HAVE A BASE ON THIS, ON THE ELEVATIONS, BUT NOT ON THE, NOT IN DETAIL.
I WOULD LIKE TO SEE SOME KIND OF BASE IF IT HAS A CAP.
OH, I, IS IT YOUR OPINION YOU'D RATHER HAVE 'EM STRAIGHT? 'CAUSE I CAN JUST HAVE 'EM DRAW 'EM STRAIGHT.
I, I WOULD RATHER SEE 'EM STRAIGHT.
I DON'T THINK IT'S ENOUGH GIRTH TO OKAY.
UH, I WOULD AGREE THAT A, A PANEL'S NOT GONNA BE SUCCESSFUL THERE, BUT I THINK WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE SOME SORT OF CAP AND BASE APPLIED.
NOT JUST GOING STRAIGHT DOWN TO THE, TO THE SLAB.
IT DOESN'T HAVE A BASE ON THAT, BUT ON THE SECTION AND ELEVATION HAS THAT.
UM, I, YOU KNOW, LOOKING AT THIS ELEVATION, I THINK WE ALSO HAVE ISSUE WITH THE, UM, FAUX WINDOWS APPLIED TO THE SIDE THAT IS, YOU KNOW, THE RAILINGS ARE SOMETHING THAT FLOATS AROUND HERE AND THERE.
THE, ANY SORT OF FAKE WINDOW APPLICATION IS SOMETHING THAT THE HPC HAS BEEN PRETTY STRONGLY AGAINST HISTORICALLY, AND, AND NOT ALLOWED.
UM, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU CAN, THOSE ARE BOTH BED WALLS.
JUST, I THINK IT WOULD PROBABLY BE ACCEPTABLE IF THOSE TWO OUTSIDE WINDOWS WERE JUST IN, IN PLACE OF THE TRIM OR THE, THE FAKE TRIM WINDOWS INSTEAD.
AND THEN THAT'S HOW WE ACTUALLY ORIGINALLY SUBMITTED IT.
WE JUST MADE THIS CHANGE LAST MINUTE, UM, AT THE RECOMMENDATION OF THE ARCHITECT THAT SITS ON THE HARB, UM, FOR TABBY ROADS.
I APPRECIATE THE COMMENT THAT IF THOSE ARE JUST TWO WINDOWS FAR ON THE OUTSIDE AND THAT WAS ALL SIDING BETWEEN, THAT'S A LOT OF UNBROKEN SIDING.
BUT I, I, ONE, I DON'T THINK WE'LL ALLOW THAT EXCEPTION.
WE JUST HAVE NOT ALLOWED FAKE WINDOWS AT ALL AS A BOARD IS MY UNDERSTANDING.
UM, BUT I THINK IT WOULD BE FINE IF YOU TOOK THOSE TWO OUTSIDE WINDOWS AND PUT 'EM IN PLACE OF THOSE PANELS AND THEN DIDN'T HAVE ANYTHING ON THE OUTSIDE.
THAT'S, I THINK THAT'S THE ISSUE IS THOSE BECAUSE OF THE FLOW AND BECAUSE OF THE FLOOR PLANS, THAT'S WHERE THOSE WINDOWS HAD TO GO.
AND THAT'S KIND OF WHERE THEY'VE BEEN FROM THE CONCEPTUAL TO THE OR OR FROM THE PRELIMINARY TO THE CONCEPTUAL WAS RIGHT THERE.
UM, AND WE JUST PUT THE FAKE PANELS, LIKE I SAID, BECAUSE THE A RB KIND OF SUGGESTED IT, BUT THEY'VE APPROVED IT WITHOUT THE, UM, WITHOUT THE FAKE PANELS.
I MEAN, I THINK WHEN IT CAME IN FOR CONCEPTUAL, THERE WAS SOME DIFFERENT WINDOW IN THE MIDDLE OF THAT ELEVATION.
I MEAN, IT LOOKS LIKE YOU CAN PUT 'EM ON THE WALL, WALL, YOU THE FLOOR PLAN.
FLIP TO THE FLOOR PLAN REAL QUICK.
AND I THINK THEY'D PROBABLY MORE SUCCESSFUL ON THE PLANNING IF THEY WERE ON THE INNER PART.
'CAUSE YOU GET MORE LIGHT IN THE BACK PART OF THAT ROOM.
SO IF YOU WERE TO MIRROR THE WINDOWS ABOUT EACH BED IN EACH BEDROOM, SO THEY GO ON THE INSIDE, IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? YEAH.
AND THEN I THINK IF YOU, IF YOU ONLY WANNA, IF THE GOAL IS ONLY HAVING TWO WINDOWS ON AN ELEVATION, NOT HAVING ANY EXPENSE OF FOUR I THINK WOULD BE FINE.
WELL, I THINK IT WAS BECAUSE THE ROOM'S NOT WIDE ENOUGH FOR THE BED.
YOU KNOW, WE DIDN'T, DIDN'T WANT BOTH WINDOWS WOULD BASICALLY BE INTERFERING KIND OF BEHIND THE BED, YOU KNOW? WELL, WE'RE NOT SAYING THAT IN BOTH WINDOWS.
JUST MOVING THOSE WINDOWS IN AND I THINK IT, IT MAKES THAT ROOM MORE SUCCESSFUL.
'CAUSE YOU, UM, YOU KNOW, THE, THE WINDOW THERE IS PRETTY CLOSE TO THE FRONT.
AND IT WILL LOOK BETTER FROM THE RIGHT ELEVATION.
THAT IN FRONT OF THE DOOR IN THE INTERIOR, THE, THE BED WILL SAY THE SAME, IT'S JUST, YOU'RE JUST FLIPPING IT TO THE OTHER PEN TABLE.
YEAH, WE CAN DEFINITELY, WE CAN DEFINITELY GET BY WITH IT.
THIS, IT'S UNFORTUNATE THIS IS THE ELECTRICAL PLAN.
UM, THIS ISN'T REALLY THE SECOND FLOOR PLAN, BUT, UM, IS IT DIFFERENT? I MEAN, IT SHOULD BE THE SAME.
SO, I MEAN, YOU CAN SEE WHERE THE NIGHTSTAND, SO JUST IT'S GOING THE OPPOSITE NIGHTSTAND ON, ON ALL FOUR OF THOSE.
I THINK THAT WOULD BE SUCCESSFUL IN BREAKING UP THAT WALL AND GETTING RID OF THOSE PANELS THAT ARE NOT APPROVED.
OTHER QUESTIONS, COMMENTS? UM, I THINK I AGREE WITH THE STAFF COMMENTS, UH, THE REST OF THE WAY THROUGH.
MY OTHER THOUGHT WAS THAT THE, THE HIP ROOF WITH A VERY SHORT
[00:25:01]
RIDGE IS AN, AN UNUSUAL ELEMENT.TYPICALLY IT EITHER COMES LIKE ALL THE WAY TO THE POINT OR HAS A LONGER RIDGE.
AND I THINK THAT COULD BE ADJUSTED WITH HOW THE, UH, BRACKET DETAIL PLAYS OUT ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.
SINCE THAT IS APPARENTLY NOT ACCURATE, YOU'RE SAYING FULL SQUARE SO THAT IT, IT'LL BE A, I THINK IT'S REALLY CLOSE THIS ODD THAT IS CLOSE.
SO IT'S NOT MAKE IT UP YOUR SAYING LET'S MAKE, WELL, RIGHT NOW IT'S GOT LIKE A NATIVE YEAH.
WELL YOU CAN, YOU CAN ARGUE AGAINST ME.
YOU WERE SAYING, UM, GET RID OF THE RIDGE AND JUST HAVE IT LIKE A PYRAMID, LIKE A POINT.
WELL IT IS WEIRD THAT IT'S, IT'S THAT CLOSE AND NOT MM-HMM.
I THINK THAT'S JUST KIND OF THE WHAT, HOW IT ENDED UP BEING THE SIZE OF THE RIGHT.
THERE'S ADJUSTABILITY IN THERE WITH HOW THE BRACKET DETAIL WORKS.
I MEAN, THE OTHER WAY TO DO THAT WOULD BE TO ADJUST THE PITCH OF IT ON ONE OF THE, ON THE SIDE.
MAKE THAT RIDGE LONG, YOU KNOW, LONGER.
IT'S PRETTY, CAN BE A VERY SMALL RIDGE, BUT IF YOU WANNA MAKE THAT RIDGE LONGER, YOU'D CHANGE THE PITCH OF ONE OF THOSE ROOFS, ONE OF THE SIDES.
SO IT ESSENTIALLY HAVE A STEEPER PITCH ON THE FRONT.
I, I MEAN, IN REALITY, I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'RE GONNA SEE IT, IT IS CLOSED, BUT, WELL, I MEAN, IT IS, IT'S ALSO THE SIDE ELEVATIONS, WHICH ARE, YOU KNOW, NOT STREET VIEW.
THEY'RE, IT'S AN INTERIOR LOT.
SO, UM, AND I, AND I THINK THAT THE ARCHITECT WANTED ALL THE, THE PITCH OF ALL FOUR SIDES OF THAT ROOF TO REMAIN THE SAME.
I, I THINK JUST AESTHETICALLY THAT'S GONNA LOOK BETTER.
I THINK YOU COULD, I THINK WE COULD ADJUST THAT TO WHERE IT'S JUST A PYRAMID.
IT'S JUST A POINT, YOU KNOW, AND GET RID OF THAT RIDGE.
I'VE DEBATED ABOUT THOSE BRACKETS TOO.
YOU KNOW, THERE'S, I MEAN, POTENTIALLY THERE'S POTENTIAL TO ADD BRACKETS ALONG THE SIDE OF THE HOUSE RATHER THAN ON THE PORCH LIKE THAT.
UM, I THINK THAT'S ANOTHER REASON WHY THE DETAIL IS NOT MAKE IT LONGER.
HERE'S WHERE, YOU KNOW, IN REALITY WHEN EVERYTHING GOES ON THERE, ALL THE RIDGE CAPS AND EVERYTHING FOR METAL ROOF, IT'S DIFFERENT THAN A SHINGLE.
I, I'D ALSO WORRY ABOUT THOSE VALLEYS ON THE SIDE.
IF, IF THAT'S GONNA BE HOW IT IS IN REALITY, IF YOU'RE GONNA HAVE THOSE SMALL LITTLE VALLEYS, OR IF IT'S THAT ROUTE'S JUST GONNA COME STRAIGHT ACROSS, GO TO THE ROOF PLAN, CAN YOU GO TO THE ROOF PLAN ON THAT? YES, DEFINITELY.
SO YOU HAVE THAT, THOSE WITH METAL ROOF, THOSE TWO LITTLE VALLEYS RIGHT THERE.
I, I MEAN I DON'T WELL THEY, THEY ALMOST MATCH AND PLAN.
IS I, I MEAN I ALMOST THINK YOU BRING THAT ROOF UP COMPLETELY DIFFERENT THAN THE ELEVATION.
I, I WOULD MAYBE JUST BRING THAT AND HAVE IT GO STRAIGHT ACROSS.
I THINK IT'S GONNA BE HARD TO ACCOMPLISH THAT LITTLE RIDGE THERE, THAT ROOF.
SO THAT OVERHANG WOULD BE MORE ON THE, THE STAIRS.
SO YOU HAVE THESE LITTLE, IN REALITY, THESE ARE GONNA BE HARD TO ACCOMPLISH.
THESE LITTLE VALLEYS HERE, STEPS IN.
YOU'RE GONNA HAVE A REAL SMALL, WHAT I WOULD PROBABLY DO IS GO STRAIGHT ACROSS, ELIMINATE THOSE.
I THINK IN REALITY WHEN YOU HAVE ALL THOSE METAL PIECES, YOU'RE GONNA JUST ACCOMPLISH THAT.
OH, THAT'S ACTUALLY, I THINK IF YOU LOOK ON THE, UM, THAT'S, THAT'S, THAT'S A FASCIA.
SO IT'S NOT REALLY A VALLEY THAT'S A ROOF TO WALL RIGHT THERE.
AND THEN THAT'D BE FASCIA I THINK ON THOSE PARTS.
I THINK THOSE ARE VALLEYS, UM, THOSE ONES COMING ACROSS THERE.
IF YOU GO, YOU CAN GO LOOK AT THAT ELEVATION.
WELL IT'S ACTUALLY ONE OF THE STAFF COMMENTS, UH, THAT I AGREE WITH THAT THAT WALL IN THE CENTER THERE IS NOT RECESSED FAR ENOUGH.
SO IF YOU DO THAT, THAT'LL MAKE IT BETTER.
I JUST, YEAH, I MEAN, YOU KNOW, METAL ROOFER, YOU'RE GONNA HAVE A LOT OF PIECES WHEN THOSE COME TOGETHER, I THINK THIS IS GONNA BE REAL HARD.
SO IF YOU MOVE THAT WALL BACK, I THINK THAT ALSO HELPS.
AND I AGREE WITH STAFF'S ASSESSMENT THERE, THAT, THAT THAT WALL AND PLAN DOES NOT PUSH BACK FAR ENOUGH FOR THE MATERIAL BREAK.
AND TO GIVE THAT DEFINITION AND TO SEPARATE THE CARRIAGE HOUSE ELEMENT FROM THE MAIN HOUSE.
SO THAT IS A SMALL VALLEY IS WHAT YOU'RE SAYING RIGHT NOW? YEAH.
I MEAN, PUSHING THAT WALL BACK, I MEAN YOU COULD EVEN MAKE THAT OVERHANG A LITTLE BIT LESS TOO, TO GET THAT MORE OF A VALLEY THERE, UHHUH.
BECAUSE IT'S ONLY A SIX INCH STEP IN.
SO IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT IT ON THE FLOOR PLANS, I THINK THERE WAS A REASON FOR THAT AT SOME POINT.
UM, THEN IT TAKES AWAY, I THINK IT'S GONNA TAKE AWAY, IT'S GONNA PUSH THE, THE DOOR TO THE PORCH BECOMES SMALLER.
LIKE ESSENTIALLY THERE'S NOT, THERE'S NOT ENOUGH ROOM.
[00:30:01]
TRIED TO GIVE SOME ARCHITECTURAL DIMENSION THERE ON THE SIDE OF THE HOUSE, OBVIOUSLY.SO THAT'S NOT JUST A STRAIGHT LINE, BUT I, IT JUST NEEDS TO BE MORE THAT SIX INCHES ISN'T, ISN'T NOT NEARLY ENOUGH.
AND I THINK STAFF PICKED UP ON THAT.
UM, AND AGAIN, THE ONLY WAY TO ACCOMPLISH THAT WOULD BE TO, WE RIGHT.
YOU, YOU'VE GOT A SHIFT INTO THE SCREEN FOR, I MEAN THAT HALLWAY LOCATION IS A LITTLE BIT FLEXIBLE THERE IT LOOKS LIKE.
AND I MEAN, IT'S SORT OF UP TO YOU GUYS TO ADDRESS A COMMENT, BUT I THINK IT'S A FAIR ONE THAT, THAT YOU'RE ASKING FOR THIS TO BE A HOUSE WITH AN ATTACHED CARRIAGE HOUSE AND THERE'S MINIMAL SEPARATION BETWEEN THOSE TWO BECAUSE THAT WALL DOESN'T BREAK IN.
SO I THINK IT NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED.
IT'S ALREADY GOT A, THE ROOF IS CONTINUOUS FROM FRONT TO BACK, WHICH TYPICALLY WE'D LIKE TO SEE THE CARRIAGE HOUSE LOWER.
I FEEL LIKE IT WAS LOWER IN A PREVIOUS ITERATION, WOULDN'T IT? OH, CARRIAGE HOUSE IS LOWER.
YOU LOOK ON THAT ELEVATION RIGHT THERE.
THE, THE ROOF IS THE ROOF IS THE, IS THE SAME HEIGHT.
OH, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT LIKE THE FASCIA, LIKE THE OVERALL, NOT THE RIDGE SCALE.
SO YOU LIKE TO SEE THE ACTUAL, LIKE THE FASCIA OF THE CARRIAGE HOUSE.
YOU'D LIKE TO SEE THAT LOWER AND NOT BE IN A CONTINUOUS PLAN WITH ALL THE REST OF THE FASCIA IF IT'S GONNA READ AS A CARRIAGE HOUSE.
TYPICALLY WE'D LIKE TO SEE THAT FEEL LIKE A DIFFERENT ELEMENT.
AND WHEN YOU SAY CARRIAGE HOUSE, YOU MEAN LIKE, LIKE A DETACHED LIKE IT IT HAS, IT CAN BE, IT COULD BE ATTACHED TOO.
BUT AS A SEPARATE, YOU KNOW, THERE'S THE MAIN HOUSE.
WE HAVE CERTAIN REQUIREMENTS OF THE ALLOWABLE SQUARE FOOTAGE AND THE ALLOWABLE SQUARE FOOTAGE IN A CARRIAGE HOUSE PORTION.
WE LIKE THOSE TO, TO FEEL LIKE THEY'RE TWO SEPARATE STRUCTURES.
HISTORICALLY, YOU WOULDN'T TYPICALLY HAVE A TWO STORY FULL STRUCTURE THAT READS AS ONE TWO STORY STRUCTURE.
SO WE'D LOWER THE CEILING HEIGHT ESSENTIALLY IN THE GARAGE OR IN THE BONUS ROOM THERE.
AND I FEEL LIKE THERE WAS AN EARLIER ITERATION THAT HAD A LOWER PLATE HEIGHT THERE.
MAYBE I'M THINKING OF ANOTHER PROJECT.
WELL, I MEAN IT COULD HAVE MADE IT COME ON THERE AND GO IN.
GOING BACK TO WHAT YOU GUYS WERE SAYING ABOUT THE, UM, THE ARCHITECTURAL DIMENSION TO KIND OF SEPARATE THAT CARRIAGE HOUSE A LITTLE BIT.
UM, IF WE WERE TO LOWER THE ROOF OF THE CARRIAGE HOUSE, WOULD THAT ACCOMPLISH THAT OR ARE WE STILL GONNA HAVE LIKE, I MEAN I GUESS MY QUESTION IS HOW MUCH, MY QUESTION IS HOW MUCH, UM, FURTHER WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE THE DIMENSION THERE BETWEEN THE HOUSE AND THE CARRIAGE HOUSE? I MEAN, I THINK IT NEEDS TO BE AT LEAST A FOOT AND A HALF, IF NOT TWO FEET.
THE SIX INCHES YOU MEAN YOU'RE GONNA LOOK DOWN THE LENGTH OF THAT.
THAT WALL IS BROKEN UP BY A SIX INCH JOG, BUT THE ROOF LINE IS BASICALLY CONTINUOUS AND, AND SIX INCHES ISN'T ENOUGH TO MAKE IT FEEL NOT JUST CONTINUOUS.
'CAUSE IT'S SO TALL WITH NO RELIEF IF THAT STEP DOWN AND YOU'VE GOT SPACE TO BRING IT DOWN.
'CAUSE THERE'S 13 FOOT CEILINGS IN THE GARAGE.
NO, THERE'S DEFINITELY SPACE TO BRING IT DOWN.
I'M GOING BACK TO PREVIOUS WHAT WE WERE SAYING ABOUT, OH, TO THE, THE WHERE, ESSENTIALLY WHERE THE SERVICE YARD IS.
UM, THE, YOU KNOW, WHAT ATTACHES THE HOUSE TO THE CARRIAGE HOUSE THAT UM, STAIRWELL, RIGHT? YEAH.
UM, AND HALLWAY, ESSENTIALLY WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO BUMP THAT WHOLE THING OVER AND UM, THAT, YOU KNOW, WE'VE, I THINK IT'S CURRENTLY LIKE A FIVE FOOT FRENCH DOOR THAT GOES OUT TO THE, IT'S PRETTY MUCH AS SMALL AS WE COULD GET IT.
THAT WOULD HAVE TO GO DOWN TO A SINGLE DOOR RIGHT THERE.
I THINK IT DOES LOOK LIKE YOU'RE, YOU'RE ABOUT SIX INCHES OFF THE SIDE SETBACK, RIGHT? IS THAT WHAT THAT LINE IS ON THE FLOOR PLAN? UH, NO, THAT'S THE ROOF OVERHANG.
WELL THERE'S A ROOF OVERHANG LINE DASH LINE, BUT THERE'S ALSO A SETBACK LINE.
THIS IS THE FIRST FLOOR PLAN ON THAT FIRST FLOOR PLAN.
DO WE ONLY HAVE ELECTRICAL STATION? YEAH, THAT THAT I SEE.
SO THAT WAS THE SHEET YOU HAD THE RIGHT ONE THERE.
THE DASH LINE ABOVE THE WALL ABOVE, RIGHT ABOVE THE WALL.
IT DOES LOOK LIKE TO BE STEP BACK, IT LOOKS LIKE YOU GOT SIX INCHES TO SHIFT THE GARAGE TO THE RIGHT, WHICH WOULD GIVE YOU A FOOT, WHICH WOULD HELP.
I MEAN AND IF YOU GET SIX INCHES ON THE MAIN MASS TOO.
AND WHEN YOU SAY SHIFT THE GARAGE TO THE RIGHT, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT LOOKING AT IT FROM THE FRONT ELEVATION? UH, TO THE LEFT.
SO IF WE'RE LOOKING AT THIS DRAWING, SHIFT IT UP.
'CAUSE IT LOOKS LIKE YOU'RE OFF IT BY ABOUT SIX INCHES AND THEN THAT WAY WE COULD LEAVE THIS IN PLACE ESSENTIALLY AND NOT OKAY, SO YOU LEAVE THE STAIR HALL THE SAME AND THEN YOU MOVE THE MASS ON THE LEFT AND THE MAT IN THE GARAGE ON THE RIGHT UP SIX INCHES.
THAT GIVES YOU A FOOT OF SEPARATION, WHICH IS A LITTLE BETTER.
SO YOU GET MORE THAN JUST LIKE A CORNER BOARD.
I STILL THINK IT NEEDS TO BE A LITTLE BIT MORE THAN THAN THAT, BUT IDEALLY,
[00:35:01]
YEAH.I MEAN THAT'S MINIMUM AS A FOOT.
IF THAT IS THE CASE, IF WE SHIFT IT OVER, DO WE HAVE ANY OTHER DESIGN ELEMENTS TO DISCUSS? I I, I MEAN I'M CONCERNED ABOUT THE BACK ELEVATION, BUT I THINK IF YOU LOWER THAT, I THINK THAT HELPS WITH THAT GARAGE 'CAUSE IT'S SO VERTICAL.
BUT I THINK IF THAT COMES DOWN I WOULD, I WOULD AGREE THAT THAT WOULD ADDRESS A TALL SCALE GARAGE.
I THINK THAT HELPS QUITE A BIT.
'CAUSE THAT THAT GARAGE IS WAY TOO TALL.
THERE'S NOT AN, I MEAN IT'S JUST STRAIGHT UP.
WOULD YOU, UH, WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE TO LOWER THAT WHOLE THING? I MEAN, I, I THINK YOU CAN ALMOST LOOK AT IT.
IF YOU LOOK AT THE STAIRS, IF YOU GO TO THE FLOOR PLAN, THE SECOND FLOOR OF MY, YOU CAN LOOK RIGHT THERE.
SO I, I THINK THERE'S AN OPPORTUNITY TO COME OFF THAT LANDING.
GO RIGHT IN THERE AND USE THAT AS YOUR FLOOR MAYBE.
THE LAST LANDING BEFORE YOU GET UP TO THE SECOND FLOOR.
AND THEN YOU HAVE TO USE THOSE LAST STEPS TO GET UP TO THE SECOND FLOOR.
SO THAT, THAT'S YOUR SPLIT IS THAT LANDING AND USE THAT AS YOUR ELEVATION.
SO THAT'D PROBABLY BRING IT DOWN TWO FEET, SAY THREE OR FOUR.
IT WOULD HELP YOU HAVE IT IN THE GARAGE.
I MEAN IF YOU HAVE A 13 FOOT CEILING AND THAT'S PRETTY TALL.
IS IT 13 FEET OR IT'S 13 ONE OR SOMETHING ON THE FIRST WEIGHT.
THAT'S WAY TOO, IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE 12.
UM, 'CAUSE WE WERE PLANNING ON MAYBE PUTTING LIFTS, UH, LIFTS.
12 KIND OF TO DO FOUR CARS IN THERE.
UM, BUT UH, YEAH, I MEAN, UH, THAT'S, THAT'S THE REASON YOU HAVE IT UP.
YEAH, BUT I MEAN THAT'S NOT NECESSARILY, YOU KNOW, I WAS, I WAS GONNA SUGGEST PUTTING AN EYEBROW ROOF ABOVE THE GARAGE DOOR IS TO BREAK UP THAT.
I MEAN I THINK THAT WOULD DEFINITELY HELP IF YOU DON'T DO THAT.
JUST HAVING, YOU KNOW, USE THE SAME BRACKETS AS THE FRONT AND HAVE A, A ROOF ON THAT.
I THINK THAT WOULD HELP BREAK THAT UP.
I MEAN I THINK A MINIMUM IS HAVING THAT ROOF WITH BRACKETS THAT THAT BRACKET'S NOT COMPLETELY FOREIGN IN THE FRONT.
YEAH, BUT I MEAN FROM, FROM THE EXTERIOR WISE, LIKE FROM THE LEFT ELEVATION, YOU THINK IT WOULD LOOK BETTER FOR THE CARRIAGE HOUSE TO BE SEPARATE FOR LIKE A SLIGHTLY LOWER ROOF? I MEAN I'M OKAY WITH IT BEING THE SAME ELEVATION.
I, I THINK IF YOU PUSHED IT BACK OR PUSH IT OUT, I THINK YOU GET MORE SEPARATION OF THOSE ROOFS.
I THINK THAT WOULD HELP UHHUH.
I THINK IF HAVE A, IF YOU GIVE US MORE DEFINITION OF THE BACK MAYBE THAT, THAT BRACKET, I MEAN I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU GUYS FEEL, BUT I WOULD AGREE.
I MEAN THERE'S A LOT OF EFFORT TO BRING IT TO A DIFFERENT HEIGHT.
IF YOU'RE TRYING TO DO A LIFT, THEN I MEAN THAT, THAT KILLS THAT.
SO, SO POTENTIALLY AN EYEBROW ROOF.
I THINK THAT'S, I MEAN I THINK THAT WOULD LOOK GOOD ON THE BACK OF THE HOUSE.
UM, AND THEN USE SAY BRACKET DETAIL.
PUSH THESE TWO, BASICALLY THE TWO LARGE, UM, CHUNKS OF THE HOUSE OUT TOWARDS THE, IF YOU, IF YOU HAVEN'T, I MEAN, DO WE HAVE A SITE PLAN? IF YOU HAVE THAT SIX INCHES, I WOULD TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THAT.
SO YOU, WE WANT AT LEAST A FOOT OF SEPARATION.
I'D STILL LIKE TO SEE IT COME DOWN.
IT'S, IT'S, IT'S A TALL ELEMENT.
WAS THIS REVIEWED, IS THE WHOLE FOOTPRINT IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE CENTER HALL HOUSE OR IS IT THE HOUSE PLUS THE CARRIAGE HOUSE TO GET TO THE, THE FOOTPRINT AND THE SQUARE FOOTAGE REQUIREMENTS? THEY'RE TREATED SEPARATELY.
SO THEY'RE CUMULATIVE IN THIS CASE? YEAH.
I MEAN I THINK WE SHOULD SEE SOME SEPARATION.
SOME GOOD DEFINITION OF SEPARATION BETWEEN THOSE TWO.
HEIGHT OR IN DEPTH REALLY? PROBABLY BOTH.
I MEAN IN SCALE AS A WHOLE IT SHOULD OR AT LEAST, OR AT LEAST IN BETWEEN THE CENTER CONNECTOR.
SO I MEAN RIGHT NOW THAT WALL IS, I MEAN I DEFINITELY AGREE WITH THAT.
REALLY NOT IN THE INTENT BETWEEN CARRIAGE HOUSE AND BEING CONNECTED.
SO WE, WE, WE WANT IT TO, OBVIOUSLY YOU GUYS WANT IT TO LOOK LIKE A SEPARATE ELEMENT.
YOU DON'T WANT IT TO LOOK LIKE THAT.
I FEEL LIKE IT SHOULD FEEL SECONDARY TO THE MAIN HOUSE BECAUSE HISTORICALLY YOU WOULDN'T HAVE HAD THE, THE CARRIAGE HOUSE OF THE GARAGE BE ALL IN LINE WILL TYPICALLY BE A SECONDARY STRUCTURE THAT'S THEN CONNECTED OVER TIME OR, AND NOT JUST HISTORICALLY, BUT ALSO HOW OUR ZONING CODE IS SET UP.
THE INTENT WAS THAT, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE A HOUSE AND A CARRIAGE HOUSE AND THEY'RE TWO SEPARATE STRUCTURES, WHICH IS DIFFERENT ON A LOT THAN WHEN THEY'RE COMBINED TOGETHER AND IS DIFFERENT WHEN THEY'RE COMBINED TOGETHER.
AND ALSO THE SAME HEIGHT IN ONE GIGANTIC STRUCTURE.
SO WITHOUT AN OPEN BREEZEWAY OR SOMETHING BREAKING THAT UP AND WITH THAT WALL BEING ONLY A SIX INCH JOG.
WE, IF WE LOWER THE ROOF HEIGHT OF THAT, PUT
[00:40:01]
AN EYEBROW ON THE BACK OF THE CARRIAGE HOUSE, UM, IS ONE FOOT THEN GONNA BE ENOUGH FOR YOU? I, I THINK AT THAT POINT YOU COULD PROBABLY, I MEAN IT'S, IT'S HARD TO SAY WE'D WANT TO SEE IT, BUT I THINK THAT'S WORKING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.YOU MIGHT GO TO AN EIGHT FOOT PLAY HEIGHT FOR THAT, FOR THE CONNECTOR IN THE GARAGE.
AND IF YOU, YOU GOT PLENTY OF SPACE TO VAULT IN THE BONUS ROOM IF YOU NEEDED TO, TO GET A LITTLE MORE CEILING HEIGHT.
I AGREE THAT THAT GARAGE ELEMENT NEEDS TO COME DOWN TOO.
IT'S, I MEAN THAT, THAT'S A PRETTY, I MEAN, KNOW YOU'RE NOT GONNA SEE IT, BUT I MEAN ELEVATION, THAT'S A PRETTY VERTICAL ELEMENT THAT STAIRS, I MEAN AT THE END OF THE DAY WE COULD JUST CHANGE, YOU KNOW, WE COULD BRING THE SIDING DOWN, PUT AN EYEBROW THERE AND YOU, YOU KNOW, THE PLATE HEIGHT COULD STAY THE SAME.
WELL I, WHAT IS THAT? WHAT IS THAT PLATE HEIGHT FOR THE STAIRS? THE 10 FOOT A NINE.
I MEAN YOU COULD
I MEAN THAT PLATE COULD COME DOWN MORE ON THAT SIDE.
YOU COULD EVEN HAVE A KNEE WALL.
WELL THIS COULD COME DOWN THERE 'CAUSE THIS IS LOWER, RIGHT? SO I MEAN IT COULD BE A SEVEN FOOT AND THIS COULD BE ASYMMETRICAL.
SO, SO THERE'S, THERE'S OPTIONS THERE TO LOWER THE, THE SEAL.
I THINK THOSE TWO ELEMENTS, IF WE'RE GONNA LOWER, I THINK BOTH ELEMENTS NEED TO BE LOWERED.
I WOULD TRY TO LOWER IT TO, IF YOU COULD, TO THAT LANDING ELEVATION AS USE THAT AS A STARTING POINT.
I'M NOT MARRIED TO HAVING A FOUR CAR GARAGE.
I JUST WAS THINKING, YOU KNOW, BE NICE.
IT'S NOT HISTORICAL, BUT YEAH,
WE'LL, WE'LL LOWER BOTH THOSE ELEMENTS.
WE'LL, WE'LL PROBABLY PUT AN EYEBROW THERE AND THEN WE'LL GIVE YOU A LITTLE BIT MORE DEPTH ON THE LEFT ELEVATION.
SO THERE'S QUITE A BIT OF COMMENTS WITH STAFF AND THINGS THAT WE'VE ALL TALKED ABOUT.
HOW DO WE WANT TO HANDLE? WELL, I MEAN I DON'T, I WOULD NOT BE FOR APPROVING PLANS CONSIDERING THAT THE DETAILS ARE NOT WHAT WE'RE BUILDING BY AND THEY ALL NEED TO BE UPDATED.
I THINK THAT'S, THAT PLUS THE COMMENTS IS PRETTY SUBSTANTIAL.
AND NOT SOMETHING THAT WE CAN APPROVE WITH CONDITIONS.
UM, SO YOU ALL ARE LOOKING AT TABLING IT FOR THEM TO TAKE CARE OF THAT AND COME BACK.
THEY HAVE THE OPTION TO TABLE, RIGHT.
UH, WE CAN, WE CAN MAKE A MOTION AND IF IT WAS ME, IT WOULD NOT NECESSARILY BE FAVORABLE AND WE CAN PROCEED.
THAT ROUTER, YOU GUYS CAN TABLE, TABLE AND RESUBMIT AND RESUBMIT.
I I THINK THERE'S A GOOD AMOUNT OF DISCREPANCIES IN THE, IN THE ELEVATIONS IN THE WALL SECTIONS TOO.
RIGHT? WE SHOULD, IF YOU LOOK AT THE WALL SECTIONS, THEY, IT CALLS OUT DIFFERENT MATERIALS.
IT HAS SIDING GOING ALL THE WAY DOWN, DOESN'T HAVE THE BOARD MAT.
SO I MEAN, I, I THINK A LOT OF THAT NEEDS TO BE CLEANED UP.
AND RESUBMIT, THAT'S, I'M FINE WITH THAT.
SO WE WOULD HAVE TO, WE WOULD'VE TO GET IT IN FOR NEXT MONTH'S MEETING.
TOP MY HEAD PROBABLY TODAY FOR NEXT MONTH.
SO IT WOULD BE LIKE THE FIRST WEEK OF DECEMBER FOR JANUARY'S MEETING.
UNLESS IT'S A FIVE MONTH WEEK AND THEN IT IS A FIVE MONTH WEEK OR IT'S A FIVE WEEK MONTH.
SO, UM, JUST A QUICK QUESTION.
DID ARE WE OKAY TO DO THE LUM, THE SAME ALUMINUM BALLAST, UH, HANDRAILS AND BALLISTERS? WE'LL HAVE TO COME TO A VOTE, BUT I, I WOULD ASSUME THAT WOULD BE OKAY.
I MEAN, LET'S SEE DETAIL OF IT.
THAT WOULD BE A RESUBMISSION OF IT.
YOU WRITING THIS DOWN DETAIL TODAY IS THE DEADLINE FOR NEXT MONTH.
SO WE JUST, IT'S TWO MONTHS BASICALLY.
THE OTHER THING I WANTED TO POINT OUT TOO WAS THE FRONT DOOR.
UM, IS THERE ANY OH YEAH, WE DIDN'T TALK ABOUT THAT.
I MEAN I, YEAH, I, I GUESS I CAUGHT THAT IN MY I AGREE WITH THE STAFF COMMENT.
SO YEAH, I MEAN, IS THERE A REASON IT'S NINE FEET? UH, WE JUST WANTED A, WE, WE WENT WITH 11 FOOT CEILINGS ON THE FIRST FLOOR.
UM, AND WE WENT WITH A NINE FOOT FRONT DOOR, 42 INCHES WIDE.
WE JUST BUILT A HOUSE LIKE THAT.
SO WE KIND OF COPIED IT AND THEIR FRONT DOOR, THE HEAD HEIGHT WAS DIFFERENT THAN THE WINDOWS.
WELL, SO THAT, THAT ONE WAS APPROVED LAST YEAR.
I WOULD SAY TYPICALLY WHAT YOU'D SEE IN HISTORICAL ARCHITECTURE WOULD BE A SIX FOOT, EIGHT OR SEVEN FOOT HEAD AROUND WINDOWS.
AND THEY'LL DO LIKE A SIX FOOT EIGHT OR SEVEN FOOT DOOR WITH A TRANSOM ABOVE.
UM, OR YOU COULD RAISE THE WINDOWS OR YOU COULD RAISE THE WINDOWS TO NINE FEET.
I I THINK THEY NEED TO LINE YEAH.
THERE THEY'LL HAVE TO ALIGN AROUND, AROUND THAT WHOLE FIRST FLOOR IS THE ONLY THING.
AND THEN, THEN YOU GOTTA GO TO, YOU KNOW, YOUR DOUBLE DOORS ON THE SCREEN PORCH HAVE TO BE NINE FEET.
IT DOESN'T BOTHER ME THAT IT'S DIFFERENT, BUT I HISTORIC, I
[00:45:01]
I THINK IT NEEDS A LINE.I MEAN, IT, IT COULD BE A TRAM ABOVE THOSE WINDOWS.
I MEAN THE WINDOWS, IF YOU WANTED TO HAVE IT LOWER, YOU COULD DO THAT AND PUT A TRAM ABOVE 'EM AND, AND YEAH, I WOULD HAVE THE DOORS.
I THINK THAT IT NEEDS TO LINE UP WITH THE FRONT WINDOWS, HOWEVER YOU WANT TO ACCOMPLISH THAT.
SO IT COULD BE DONE WITH TRANSOMS TOO, IF YOU WANT TO DO THAT TRANSOMS ABOVE THE FOUR WINDOWS.
YEAH, I MEAN, IF YOU WANNA DO THAT OR, I MEAN, IT COULD BE AS IT'S ABOVE THE FRONT DOOR.
SO YOU HAVE THAT CONSISTENT LINE.
I DON'T THINK ANY, SO IF YOU DO IT ABOVE, IF YOU DO IT ABOVE THE DOOR, IF YOU DO IT ABOVE THE FRONT DOOR, IT'S OKAY IF THE, IF IT'S DIFFERENT HEIGHT, TYPICALLY YEAH.
THAT'S WHAT WE WOULD HISTORICALLY SEE IS THE, THE WINDOWS ARE ALL SORT OF A CERTAIN HEIGHT.
AND THEN TO GET EXTRA LIGHT, BECAUSE THE DOORS WERE USUALLY SOLID OR HAD A SMALLER LIGHT, YOU'D HAVE THE TRANSOM JUST OVER THAT ONE.
BUT WOULD THE DOOR STILL BE ABLE TO BE NINE FEET IN THAT CIRCUMSTANCE? OR YOU WOULD WANNA GO? UH, I DON'T THINK SO.
'CAUSE YOU'D HAVE TO, IF YOU HAVE 11 FOOT CEILINGS, YOU'D BE LOOKING AT LIKE A 14 INCH TRANSOM ABOVE THERE TO MAKE SURE YOU HAVE ENOUGH SPACE FOR HEADERS.
SO YOU DON'T NO, I JUST MEAN IF WE DID A TRANSOM, IT'S OKAY IF THE DOOR IS NINE FEET AND THOSE, THE WINDOW HEAD HEIGHT IS EIGHT FEET.
I THINK THAT'S WHAT IT'S, I THINK WHAT YOU WANT ACCOMPLISH IS THE, THE TOP OF THE TOP OF THE DOOR, TOP OF THE DOOR AND THE TOP OF THE WINDOWS, NO MATTER HOW YOU DO THAT, IS THE SAME HEIGHT.
SO EIGHT FOOT DOOR WITH LIKE A, A 16 INCH OR 24 INCH TRANSOM.
IF YOU WANT EIGHT FOOT WINDOWS, I MEAN YOU COULD, YOU KNOW, PUT A 16 INCH TRANSOM ABOVE THOSE AND UH, YOU KNOW, COULD HAVE AN EIGHT FOOT DOOR AND A 16 INCH TRANSOM, BUT YOU COULD PUT TRANSOM ALL ACROSS THERE 16 INCHES AND IF YOU WANTED THAT HOLD THAT EIGHT FOOT LINE.
AND SO INSIDE THAT EIGHT FOOT LINE KIND OF HOLDS, UM, I THINK WHAT IT IS, WE WANTED THAT NINE FOOT, THE THE NINE FOOT DOOR.
AS, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, WE SAW, LIKE I SAID, THE, THE HOUSE WE JUST FINISHED IN JUNE IN THAT SAME NEIGHBORHOOD HAD IT.
AND I DO BELIEVE, I DON'T, I WOULD HAVE TO PULL UP A PICTURE OF IT, BUT I'M PRETTY SURE THE WINDOWS AND THE DOOR ARE SEPARATE.
UM, BUT THAT WAS JUST, WE LIKED IT, SO WE COPIED IT.
WHAT DO WE NEED OF THAT? UH, WELL I WOULD ENCOURAGE YOU, I MEAN, IF YOU NEED FEEDBACK FROM, THEY CAN SORT OF SEEK INFORMAL FEEDBACK FROM THE HPRC AS YOU'RE GOING THROUGH THE CHANGES.
UM, YOU'RE WELCOME TO DO THAT.
WE, I GUESS WE'RE COMING UP WITH, ARE WE COMING UP WITH A MOTION TO TABLE? ARE WE ASKING THE APPLICANT IF YOU GUYS WOULD LIKE TO TABLE? WE'LL TABLE IT.
AND THEN, YEAH, LIKE I SAID, IF YOU WANT FEEDBACK ALONG THE WAY, WE'RE, WE'RE HAPPY TO HELP AT THE HPC LEVEL.
CAN WE, WE, CAN WE GET YOUR PHONE NUMBER? SURE.
CHARLOTTE CAN CONNECT IS, UH, TABLING TO THE JANUARY MEETING? UH, WELL, WHENEVER THEY SUBMIT.
YEAH, IT WOULD HAVE TO BE, YEAH.
WE'LL TRY TO GET IT IN THE, THE DEADLINE FOR THE JANUARY MEETING'S GONNA BE, UM, DECEMBER 11TH.
AND THEN ARE WE GONNA GET SOME SORT OF A, UM, COPY OF THESE COMMENTS OR, UM, THERE ARE MEETING MINUTES
WELL, I GUESS, I GUESS, IS IT OKAY? I I, NO, I MEAN THIS DISCUSSION IS ONLINE ON, ON THE COUNTY CHANNEL ON IT'S RECORDED.
SO THIS RECORDED THERE AS WELL.
I JUST, I HATE TO HOLD EVERYBODY UP.
I JUST WANTED TO, YOU KNOW, QUICK BULLET POINTS.
YOU KNOW, SO WE'RE OKAY WITH THE HANDRAILS.
WE THINK WE NEED TO, OBVIOUSLY THE DETAILS NEED TO MATCH THE ELEVATIONS.
UM, WE, WE FIGURED OUT WHAT THE CARRIAGE HOUSE OR IN THE LOWER THE ROOF, UM, BOTH ELEMENTS ON THE CARRIAGE HOUSE, GIVE IT SOME MORE DIMENSION, MAYBE PUT AN EYEBROW ROOF, UM, WHAT AM I MISSING COLUMN? THE DOOR COLUMNS.
FLAT COLUMNS, AND THEN THE DOOR, THE WINDOW PANELS MOVE THOSE WINDOWS.
OH, IN THE, YEAH, THE WINDOW PANELS INSIDE ELEVATIONS.
AND I THINK YOU HAD HAD A COMMENT ABOUT THE, IT WASN'T THAT WE DIDN'T GO OVER, WHAT WAS THAT? UH, IDENTIFY THE ROOF SOFFIT.
UM, IDENTIFY THE ROOF MATERIAL AND WE JUST, WE WERE JUST DOING, UM, STANDING SAME.
AND, UM, THE THREE FEET ABOVE GRADE OR IT'S ABOVE THE AVERAGE SIDEWALK.
SO THAT DOESN'T MEAN THE GRADE, CAN THE GRADE STILL BE 30 INCHES WHEN THAT'S, THAT'S THREE FEET ABOVE THE AVERAGE ADJACENT GRADE AT THE SIDEWALK IS TO THE FINISHED FIRST FLOOR.
SO IF YOU HAVE A STEP DOWN FROM THE FIRST FLOOR TO THE PORCH, YOU AND 30 INCHES AND SOME SLOPE TO THE, TO THE FRONT YARD, YOU CAN ACHIEVE YOUR 30 INCHES.
SO YOU DON'T NEED THE HANDRAILS AT THE FRONT YARD, BUT YOU NEED, DO NEED TO MAINTAIN THAT THREE FEET AND NOT IT ON THE PLANS BETWEEN THE AVERAGE GRADE TO THE SIDEWALK AND THE FIRST FLOOR.
YEAH, IT SHOULD BE ON THE PLANS.
MAYBE I'M, MAYBE I'M MISTAKEN.
'CAUSE WE'VE, WE'VE BEEN THROUGH THAT RODEO WITH KATIE.
[VII.2. Certificate of Appropriateness (43 Thomas Heyward Street): A request by Raymond Beach, on behalf of the owner, Megan C. Beach, for the review of a Certificate of Appropriateness-HD to allow an existing one-story Carriage House of approximately 756 unenclosed square feet erected without an approved COFA-HD and without an approved building permit, located at 43 Thomas Heyward Street, in the Old Town Bluffton Historic District. The property is zoned Neighborhood General-HD. (COFA-03-24-019047) (Staff – Charlotte Moore)]
OKAY.OUR NEXT CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS.
[00:50:26]
ALL RIGHT, SO THIS NEXT KOFA HD IS 4 43 THOMAS HAYWARD.AND THE REQUEST, UH, IS FROM THE APPLICANT, RAYMOND BEACH ON BEHALF OF THE PROPERTY OWNER MEGAN BEACH.
AND THEY ARE SEEKING APPROVAL OF AN EXISTING ONE STORY CARRIAGE HOUSE.
UH, IT'S BEEN IDENTIFIED BY TWO DIFFERENT SQUARE FOOTAGES.
I BELIEVE IT'S ACTUALLY 720 SQUARE FEET.
UM, THIS PARTICULAR CARRIAGE HOUSE IS A METAL CARPORT.
IT WAS ERECTED WITHOUT KOFA HD APPROVAL AND WITHOUT A BUILDING PERMIT.
THE PROPERTY'S LOCATED, UH, ON THOMAS HAYWARD STREET JUST NORTH OF BRIDGE.
IT IS WITHIN THE NEIGHBORHOOD GENERAL HISTORIC DISTRICT.
AND THIS IS A PHOTO HERE, UM, FROM GOOGLE OF THE HOUSE AND YOU CAN SEE THE SIDE YARD, UM, THAT CONTAINS, UH, A BOAT AND SOME OTHER, UM, ITEMS THAT ARE NOW PLACED UNDER THE METAL CARPORT.
SO THIS IS WHAT HAS BEEN ERECTED WITHOUT APPROVAL.
UM, THE CI, THE TOWN ISSUED A NOTICE OF VIOLATION.
UH, CARRIAGE HOUSES ARE ALLOWED.
UM, AGAIN, WE HAVE A, A, A ZONING CODE THAT HAS A FORM-BASED, UM, ORIENTATION WITHIN OUR HISTORIC DISTRICT.
AND SO THERE'S A HIGHER LEVEL OF DESIGN THAT'S REQUIRED, UM, FOR METAL CARPORTS.
THEY'RE NOT PERMITTED TO, TO HAVE THIS APPEARANCE.
UM, THERE ARE NO OTHER CARRIAGE HOUSES LOCATED ON THIS PROPERTY.
AND, UM, I DO NEED TO IDENTIFY THAT IT WAS, UH, PLACED WITHIN THE SIDE YARD SETBACK.
IT SHOULD BE FIVE FEET FOR CARRIAGE HOUSES.
THIS IS ENCROACHING BY TWO FEET.
SO IF THE, UH, CARRIAGE HOUSE IS APPROVED, IT WOULD NEED TO EITHER RECEIVE A VARIANCE FROM THE BOARD OF APPEALS OR IT WOULD HAVE TO BE MOVED OUT OF THE SIDE YARD SETBACK.
UM, WHAT IT APPEARS LIKE FROM BRIDGE STREET, LOOKING ACROSS THE BACKYARD.
AND HERE'S SITE PLAN OF THE HOUSE.
UM, HAYWARD STREET IS, UH, THERE ON THE LEFT, AND AS YOU CAN SEE, NO, YOU CAN'T REALLY SEE IT TOO WELL, BUT THEY'RE SHOWING A PROPOSED SHED AND AGAIN, IT'S, IT IS ALREADY THERE CONSTRUCTED.
THIS IS THE ELEVATIONS THAT WERE INITIALLY PROVIDED TO US, AND THAT'S WHAT, UH, WAS ERECTED.
THEY HAVE GAL BLOOM COLUMNS SPELLED WRONG THERE, UM, WITH A, A METAL, UM, A METAL ROOF, METAL FASCIA AS WELL.
UM, THE COLUMNS ARE FAIRLY TALL, 13 FEET, EIGHT INCHES TO THE EAVE.
THE ROOF HEIGHT IS 15 FEET, NINE INCHES, AND THE SEPARATION BETWEEN THE COLUMNS RIGHT NOW IS ABOUT FOUR FEET, 11 AND A HALF INCHES.
THE APPLICANT DID, UM, PROVIDE AN UPDATED VERSION OF THE, UH, THE PLAN AND THE PROPOSAL APPEARS ONLY TO BE TO THE COLUMNS THAT THEY WOULD NOW BE WOOD.
THEY WOULD BE, UH, BOX COLUMNS THAT ARE, UM, EIGHT BY EIGHT.
AND THAT'S THE ONLY CHANGE THAT I COULD, UH, IDENTIFY.
SO THE REVIEW CRITERIA FOR, UM, THE HISTORIC DISTRICT INCLUDE FOUR, UM, FOUR CRITERIA.
AND BASED ON WHAT'S BEEN PROVIDED, THERE DOES NOT SEEM TO BE CONFORMANCE WITH THIS.
UH, THE OLD TOWN MASTER PLAN DID, UM, WAS THE, THE VISION FOR THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, WHICH CREATED THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.
THE UDO IS THE IMPLEMENTATION TOOL FOR THE DISTRICT.
AND SO THERE IS NON-CONFORMANCE WITH THAT.
I'LL TALK ABOUT THE DESIGN ISSUES IN JUST A MOMENT AS WELL.
UM, THE DEMONSTRATION OF VISUAL COMPATIBILITY DOES NOT SEEM TO BE, UH, IN PLACE BASED ON WHAT WAS PROVIDED.
UM, THERE DOES SEEM TO BE COMPLIANCE WITH THE APPLICATION MANUAL.
SO THE FINDINGS, UM, BECAUSE THIS ONE IS A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT, THIS IS AN EXISTING PREFABRICATED STRUCTURE, UM, UNUSUAL.
UM, SO THE STAFF IS LOOKING TO THE HPC TO MAKE DETERMINATIONS, WHETHER OR NOT THE RICH, THE ROOF PITCH WOULD BE ACCEPTABLE.
WHETHER OR NOT THE METAL BRACINGS THAT ARE EXPOSED WOULD BE ACCEPTABLE, WHETHER THE GAL LOOM WOULD BE AN ACCEPTABLE ROOF MATERIAL.
THE ABSENCE OF EXPOSED ROOF PANEL ENDS AND WHETHER OR NOT, UM, THE COMMISSION CONSIDERS THE CARRIAGE HOUSE TO BE OF THE SAME JOURNAL CHARACTER AS THE PRIMARY STRUCTURE.
UM, IF YOU NEED TO SEE THAT, UM, THE CORRECT DIMENSIONS,
[00:55:01]
I BELIEVE THAT'S BEEN TAKEN CARE OF.SO DISREGARD TWO A AND THEN AGAIN, IF THIS IS APPROVED, THEN THERE IS ALSO THAT SECOND STEP OF NEEDING TO REMOVE THE STRUCTURE FROM THE SIDE YARD OR OBTAINING A VARIANCE.
AND WITH THAT, I DO NOT HAVE ANY OTHER ITEMS. IF YOU MOVE FORWARD, THESE ARE THE, THE THREE THINGS THAT YOU CAN, UM, TAKE ACTION ON.
YOU CAN EITHER APPROVE IT, PROVE IT WITH CONDITIONS, OR YOU CAN DENY.
AND AGAIN, LET ME GO BACK TO THE PHOTO HERE.
GLAD TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS THAT YOU MIGHT HAVE.
DO WE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR STAFF? UM, WHAT, WHAT IS, SO THIS IS KIND OF LIKE A, A CORRECTIVE ACTION.
WHAT IS THE PROCESS HERE AS WE, SO THE A IF I WERE TO MAKE A DETERMINATION, IF WE CONTINUE TO HAVE ADDITIONAL COMMENTS, OR I KNOW LIKE THE WORKSHOPS COMING UP, ARE WE TRYING TO GET TO A, UM, DECISION NO MATTER WHAT OR, AND, AND THAT MAY BE A QUESTION FOR THE APPLICANT.
IT'S KIND OF COINCIDENTAL THAT THE COFA APPLICATION AND THEN THE WORKSHOP ON THE SAME ISSUE CAME UP ON THE SAME NIGHT.
THAT'S THE NEXT ITEM ON THE AGENDA.
UM, YOU KNOW, IT MAY BE THAT THE APPLICANT WISHES TO, TO SEE HOW THAT PROCESS PLAYS OUT.
BUT THEY ARE WITHIN THEIR RIGHT TO MOVE FORWARD.
UM, YOU KNOW, THEY, THEY'RE PROPOSING A CARRIAGE HOUSE.
IT JUST DOESN'T MEET THE DESIGN REQUIREMENTS OF THE UDO.
UM, AND THERE MAY BE SOMETHING THAT COULD BE DONE, UM, TO MAKE IT MORE, UH, CONSISTENT, UH, AND COMPATIBLE WITH THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.
UM, PROBABLY THESE, PROBABLY SOME QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANT TOO.
UM, BUT, UM, AS I MENTIONED, THERE IS A WORKSHOP COMING UP, I, YOU KNOW, RELATING TO ALLOWING, UM, METAL CAR PORTS, UM, THAT NOT, DON'T NECESSARILY MEET THE MORE STRINGENT REQUIREMENTS, DESIGN REQUIREMENTS OF THE UDO.
REGARDLESS OF WHAT WE DETERMINE IN THAT WORKSHOP, THERE'S, THERE'S NOTHING COMPLIANT ABOUT THIS STRUCTURE.
AND AS FAR AS THE UDO IS CONCERNED, UM, HAD THIS BEEN SUBMITTED THROUGH THE PROPER CHANNELS, IT WOULD'VE BEEN DENIED AND NOT APPROVED TO BE CONSTRUCTED.
SO AS IT STANDS, I DON'T, I MEAN, I THINK THIS WOULD BE UP FOR DENIAL, BUT I'LL LET OTHER COMMISSIONERS SPEAK TO THAT.
WELL, YEAH, I MEAN, I THINK WE SHOULD HAVE SOME DISCUSSION AND PROBABLY HEAR FROM THE APPLICANT AS WELL.
I, I WAS JUST ASKING, UH, BECAUSE THE LAST PROJECT WITHDREW, SO I MEAN IT, SINCE IT'S CORRECTIVE ACTION IS DRAGGING IT OUT THROUGH WITHDRAWING A CONCERN ON STAFF'S PART, OR IS IT DOESN'T REALLY, THERE'S, THERE'S NOT CONCERN BECAUSE I BELIEVE THAT THERE ARE SOME OTHERS THAT ARE IN NON-COMPLIANCE AS WELL.
WELL, DO WE HAVE QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANT OR WOULD THE APPLICANT LIKE TO PRESENT ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANT? UM, I, I, I THINK I, UH, THE BOX COLUMN, IS THE INTENTION THAT THOSE ARE JUST KIND OF APPLIED TO THE STRUCTURE THAT IS THERE OR IS THERE SOME, IS IT BEING DISMANTLED AND RECONSTRUCTED WITH BOX COLUMNS? DO WE KNOW? THIS IS THE ONLY INFORMATION THAT I HAVE, UNFORTUNATELY.
CAN I SPEAK? YEAH, NO, ABSOLUTELY.
SO A LOT OF THIS WAS GENERATED BY MEETINGS WITH KATIE.
UH, THEY WERE HER RECOMMENDATIONS THAT THEY NEEDED TO MATCH THE EXISTING STRUCTURE.
AND THE EXISTING STRUCTURE HAS EIGHT BY EIGHT COLUMNS IN THE FRONT.
SO SHE FELT THAT THIS STRUCTURE NEEDED TO MATCH WITH EIGHT BY EIGHT.
AND THAT THE IDEA THAT THEY WOULD BE VENEERED AROUND THE EXISTING SUPPORT COLUMNS.
UM, THERE WERE CERTAIN, SHE SAID THE ROOF MATERIAL NEEDED THE MATCH THAT IT NEEDED TO HAVE A FASCIA BOARD AND A SOFFIT DETAIL SIMILAR TO THE, THE MAIN STRUCTURE.
AND THAT'S KIND OF WHERE ALL THIS WAS GENERATED FROM WAS MEETINGS WITH KATIE.
UM, I'M JUST TRYING TO BE IN COMPLIANCE.
I I NEED I COVERAGE OVER MY BOATS AND SURE.
AND TO ME IT TECHNICALLY IS NOT A CARRIAGE HOME.
NOBODY'S, I DON'T NEED A CO I I DON'T NEED POWER.
I, I JUST KNOW THAT'S THE CATEGORY THAT I FELL INTO.
WELL, ANYTHING OVER A CERTAIN SQUARE FOOTAGE NEEDS A, A BUILDING PERMIT.
AND THE, THE, THE MAIN CONCERN THERE IS, YOU KNOW, IT'S A BIG STRUCTURE.
[01:00:01]
IT WASN'T APPROVED BY THE TOWN OF BLUFFTON BUILDING INSPECTORS, WE DON'T KNOW HOW IT'S HELD DOWN.IF A STORM COMES, IF IT'S GONNA FLY UP, IT'S A SAFETY THING AT THE, AT THE BASE LEVEL.
THAT'S THE GENERAL, IT ONLY MEETS, ACCORDING TO ALL THE PACKAGE THAT IT TURNED IN, IT MET 140 MILE AN HOUR WIND LOAD.
AND THOSE EXPOSED BRACES WAS PART OF THAT.
AND I WASN'T ABLE TO REMOVE THAT.
'CAUSE I DIDN'T WANT TO TAKE FROM THE WIND LOAD THAT IT WAS ALREADY DESIGNED TO MEET.
IT, IT'S STILL, YEAH, I MEAN, IT, IT MEANS THE WIND LOAD, BUT IT, I GUESS HOW IT'S ANCHORED IS ANOTHER QUESTION.
'CAUSE THE WHOLE THING IS STILL, YOU KNOW, HER COME AND TAKE IT AND PUT IT IN YOUR NEIGHBOR'S HOUSE AND YEAH.
THAT'S WHY BUILDING, BUILDING BURN WOULD HAVE THAT FOUNDATION DETAIL.
SO IT MAY BE DESIGNED THERE, BUT THE WHOLE STRUCTURE MAY BLOW OVER.
AND, BUT I MEAN, I THINK WE'RE MORE AESTHETIC FOCUSED HERE.
AND, AND YEAH, I MEAN THIS, BECAUSE IT'S A 720 SQUARE FOOT STRUCTURE, IT FALLS INTO THAT CARRIAGE HOUSE CATEGORY.
IT'S JUST KIND OF A ECCENTRIC THING ABOUT THE UDO THAT IT DOESN'T SAY THAT BUILD, THAT SECTION'S NOT CALLED LIKE OUTBUILDING OR SOMETHING ELSE.
BUT IT'S REALLY, IT'S WHY WE'RE HAVING A WORKSHOP ABOUT IT BUILDING.
SO IT WOULD BE APPROVED THOUGH? UH, NOT NECESSARILY.
NOT NECESSARILY, BUT I MEAN, JUST BECAUSE WE'RE REVIEWING IT UNDER THE GUIDELINES OF CARRIAGE HOUSE, WE HAVE REVIEWED CARPORTS IN THE PAST UNDER CARRIAGE HOUSE SECTION.
CONSIDER CARRIAGE HOUSE FOR ALL THE, IF YOU'RE IN THAT SQUARE FOOTAGE, THAT'S JUST THE TERM THAT IS BEING USED FOR OUTBUILDINGS OF THAT SIZE IN THE, THE UDO.
AND THERE'S EXAMPLES DOWN THE STREET.
THERE'S A COUPLE AND THERE'S AT LEAST ONE IN, UM, STOCK FARM THAT CAME THROUGH, UM, EARLIER THIS YEAR.
UM, SO IT'S MORE ABOUT THE KIND OF USING THAT AS IN THE REQUIREMENTS IN THERE FOR WHAT YOU'RE ALLOWED TO DO WITH THE STRUCTURE OF THAT SIZE.
AND UNLESS IT NEEDS TO BE A CARRIAGE HOUSE.
BUT, UM, YOU, IT, WE DO SORT OF HAVE TO REVIEW BASED ON THE MATERIALS AND AESTHETICS, UH, REQUIREMENTS IN THE UDO.
AND IT'S, IT'S TOUGH FOR A STRUCTURE LIKE THIS TO MEET IT.
UM, I MEAN, MY THOUGHTS, YOU KNOW, IF WE WERE, IT'S A VERY TALL STRUCTURE WITH A WHOLE LOT OF COLUMNS.
THERE'S, YOU KNOW, GOING TO EIGHT BY EIGHT COLUMNS WOULD BE, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE STARTING TO GET THE RIGHT SCALE, BUT THERE'S NOT REALLY ANY STRUCTURE AT THE TOP AS FAR AS A BEAM OR ANYTHING.
THERE'S, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF EXPOSED METAL ON THIS.
UM, AND THERE'S NOTHING REALLY THAT, YOU KNOW, USES TRADITIONAL MATERIALS BESIDES THE COLUMNS HERE.
AND THEN AT THE END OF THE DAY, IT'S STILL GONNA HAVE THAT TRACK AT THE BOTTOM.
IT'S NOT REALLY INCORPORATED INTO THE DESIGN AT ALL.
AND I THINK IT'S UNFAIR TO EVERYBODY, YOU KNOW, WHO'S GONE THROUGH THIS PROCESS WITH CARRIAGE HOUSES UNDER THESE SAME GUIDELINES AND, AND HAS HAD TO DETAIL 'EM IN A, IN AN APPROPRIATE WAY TO KIND OF JUST SLAP SOME COLUMNS ON THIS AND, AND MOVE FORWARD.
UM, SO I GUESS THE QUESTION WOULD BE IS HOW TO GET THIS STRUCTURE TO BE IN COMPLIANCE, BECAUSE IT IS THERE, RIGHT? BECAUSE IT'S, IT'S THERE
YOU KNOW, I, I MEAN, I THINK, I THINK WHAT KATIE AS STAFF WAS TRYING TO GET AT WAS THAT MATERIAL WISE YOU HAVE TO METAL ROOF.
THE METAL ROOF IS AN ACCEPTABLE MATERIAL.
WOOD COLUMNS WOULD BE AN ACCEPTABLE MATERIAL.
BUT YOU KNOW, WHEN THE ARCHITECTURAL STANDARDS STATE THAT, YOU KNOW, THE STANDARDS ENCOURAGE BLUFFED AND VERNACULAR ARCHITECTURE AND CONSTRUCTION, WHICH IS STRAIGHTFORWARD AND FUNCTIONAL.
I MEAN, I THINK YOU CAN DO SOMETHING THAT'S SORT OF WAREHOUSY, BUT, UH, YOU KNOW, AND WHICH DRAWS THIS ORNAMENT AND VARIETY FROM THE TRADITIONAL BUILDING ASSEMBLY OF GENUINE MATERIALS.
I THINK THAT THAT'S WHERE, THIS IS NOT REALLY DOING ANYTHING LIKE THAT JUST BECAUSE IT'S KIND OF THIS PREFAB METAL STRUCTURE THAT'S VERY LARGE AND VERY TALL AND DOESN'T DO A LOT TO TRY TO, YOU KNOW, BREAK DOWN THE SCALE OR HAVE ANY OF THAT KIND OF GENUINE MATERIAL JOINERY THAT WITH YOUR OPINION.
OTHER ONES HAVE BLUFFTON DO TELL ME WHAT, WHAT YOU'RE WANTING ME TO BUILD, YOU WANT ME TO HAVE WELL, YEAH, I MEAN, EVERY OTHER COLUMN REMOVED LIKE A, A FULL WOODEN STRUCTURE.
WELL, YEAH, I MEAN, PART OF IT IS, YOU KNOW, HAD IN SOUTH CAROLINA, ANYTHING THAT'S OVER 200 SQUARE FEET WITH A ROOF SHOULD GET A BUILDING PERMIT.
HAD THIS, THE PERSON WHO TOLD YOU THAT YOU NEEDED A BUILDING PERMIT AND SHOULD HAVE GOTTEN
[01:05:01]
YOU TO THE TOWN, WE COULD BE HAVING THIS DISCUSSION WITHOUT THIS STRUCTURE HERE TO MODIFY.I DON'T THINK YOU CAN REALLY LIKE, REALLY MODIFY THIS WITHOUT COMPLETELY THE ENGINEERING, HOW IT'S PUT TOGETHER BECAUSE IT'S A PREFABRICATED THING.
UM, YOU KNOW, BUT IF YOU'RE COMING IN FRESH, YOU KNOW, YOU COULD DO A, SOME NICE EIGHT BY EIGHT POST AND SOME BEAMS HOLDING UP SOME ROOF TRUSSES WITH A METAL ROOF ON IT.
AND YOU KNOW, AS LONG AS IT HAS A PRETTY DECENT SCALE, LIKE THAT'S SOMETHING THAT I COULD SEE WHERE WE COULD APPROVE SOMETHING.
YEAH, THERE'S STRUCTURE SIZE ON THE STREET STREET THAT WE JUST APPROVED THIS PAST YEAR.
YEAH, THAT'S WHAT, EIGHT BY EIGHT WOOD, UH, WOOD COLUMNS WITH THE TRUSS PIECE ABOVE.
WOOD FASCIA, WOOD, WOOD TRIM BRACKETS ON THAT.
AND IT'S, I MEAN, AND IT'S PROBABLY AS COST EFFECTIVE IF NOT LESS THAN, BUT WELL, WE'VE GOT THIS IN FRONT OF US.
I JUST DON'T, YOU KNOW, I MEAN, IT'S SOMEBODY I JUST KNOW THAT PUT, JUST PUTTING COLUMNS ON IT, LIKE THIS IS NOT VERY CONSIDERED.
AND YOU KNOW, THAT UDO ASKS THAT YOU KIND OF PUT A LITTLE BIT MORE THOUGHT INTO HOW THE DETAILING GOES AND THAT THE, YOU KNOW, THE COLUMNS AREN'T EVEN REALLY HOLDING ANYTHING UP.
YOU KNOW, THEY'RE JUST WRAPPING THE STEEL STRUCTURE AND THEY'RE NOT HOLDING UP A BEAM THAT'S HOLDING UP THE ROOF, WHICH WOULD BE EVEN JUST THE START OF TRADITIONAL CONSTRUCTION.
YOU KNOW, THERE'S THIS WHOLE INTERNAL BRACKET STRUCTURE HOLDING UP A ROOF THAT DOESN'T HAVE ANY BOTTOM CORD OR ANYTHING TO IT.
IT'S ALL JUST, YOU KNOW, UNFORTUNATELY NOT CONSISTENT AT ALL WITH KIND OF THE INTENT OF THE CODE AS IT'S WRITTEN NOW.
ANY OTHER COMMENTS, SOLUTIONS? I DON'T, I DON'T SEE ANY WAY THAT WE COULD SALVAGE THIS AND MAKE IT, I MEAN, ONE IS WE'RE, WE'RE A REVIEW BODY AND NOT A DESIGN BODY.
UM, BUT I THINK WE DO HAVE TO ACKNOWLEDGE IT THAT IT'S BE VERY DIFFICULT TO GET THIS, IT'D BE HAVE TO BE A LOT OF LIPSTICK ON THIS TO GET IT TO BE TO WHERE IT WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT VISUALLY WE COULD APPROVE.
BUT I DON'T THINK WE CAN, YOU KNOW, WE HAD AN EXTENSIVE DISCUSSION ABOUT THAT LAST HOUSE AND I DON'T KNOW HOW WE COULD, FORTUNATELY, HOW WE COULD APPROVE THIS AND THEN CONTINUE TO REVIEW IN THE WAY THAT WE REVIEW WITH THE GUIDELINES THAT WE HAVE.
I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU COULD ADD TO IT.
I MEAN, I THINK THE PROPORTIONS ARE JUST WAY OFF.
I, I DON'T KNOW HOW TOO MANY COLUMNS ON THERE.
YOU KNOW, IT'S MEANT THEY HAVE A METAL SKIN ON IT.
THAT'S WHY THE COLUMNS ARE SPACED SO CLOSE.
UM, I MEAN, IT'S A ENGINEER BUILDING.
I MEAN THE OVERALL STRUCTURE, I DON'T, I THINK YOU GET THERE IF IT'S DETAILED, CORRECTLY PORTION.
YEAH, YOU COULD, FOR INSTANCE, IF YOU WERE TO ADD BASICALLY A WHOLE NOTHER ROOF ON TOP OF THE ROOF AT A SLOPE THAT'S TYPICAL, A SIX OR EIGHT TO 12, YOU HAVE A WOOD SOFFIT, UM, WOOD RAFTERS, SOME KIND OF BEAMS WRAPPING TO SHOW SOME SORT OF TRADITIONAL WOOD FRAMING.
AT THAT POINT, YOU'RE BASICALLY JUST BUILDING A WHOLE NEW STRUCTURE AROUND IT, WHICH IS SOMETHING THAT WE COULD CONSIDER IF YOU WERE, UH, TO GET THE DRAWINGS FOR SOMETHING LIKE THAT AND TURN IT IN.
BUT I DON'T THINK, I THINK WHAT WE'RE SAYING IS I DON'T THINK WE COULD APPROVE, BUT CERTAINLY THIS.
BUT LIKE, I MEAN, FOR EXAMPLE, THERE ARE A LOT OF COLUMNS.
THEY'RE VERY CLOSE TOGETHER, BUT THERE'S ALSO NO REAL, YOU KNOW, THE COLUMNS GO DOWN AND THEY SIT ON GRAVEL.
THERE'S THIS RAIL AT THE BOTTOM.
IT, YOU KNOW, THE QUESTION IS, IS THERE A BASE, WHAT IS THERE, YOU KNOW, A WIDER ELEMENT AT THE BOTTOM OF THE COLUMN, IT HELPS TO BREAK UP THE SCALE.
LIKE THERE'S A LOT OF MISSING ELEMENTS THAT WE WOULD BE COMMENTING ON WITH THIS.
AND WE WERE SAYING IS WE, I DON'T THINK WE CAN APPROVE THIS IN THE CURRENT STATE WITH, WITH WHAT THE UDL STANDS FOR BECAUSE I'VE FALLEN INTO A CARRIAGE HOME WITH THIS, UH, ALL THE PEOPLE THAT HAVE THIS METAL RAIL ON THE BOTTOM THAT'S 10 FOOT WIDE, 20 FOOT LONG, SAME EXACT BUILDING, JUST NOT AS TALL IS APPROVED BY YOU GUYS BECAUSE THERE'S 14 OF THEM IN DOWNTOWN.
BUT BECAUSE MINE IS LARGER, IT FALLS INTO A CARRIAGE HOME.
I DON'T KNOW THAT WE'VE APPROVED SMALLER VERSIONS OF THIS.
IF THEY ARE AROUND, THEY WEREN'T, I DON'T KNOW.
I MEAN THE, THE, THE SQUARE FOOTAGE REQUIREMENT IS LIKE 121 SQUARE FEET IS THE BOTTOM, IS A CATEGORY BELOW IT, I THINK.
UM, SO, UH, I THINK THE WORKSHOP THAT'S COMING UP IS ACKNOWLEDGING THAT, UH, THERE HAVE BEEN IDENTIFIED SEVERAL, YOU KNOW, NONCOMPLIANT STRUCTURES.
UH, I DON'T THINK THE STAFF HAS HAD THE TIME TO DETERMINE WHETHER THEY'RE PRE 2011.
ANYTHING THAT WAS PRE 2011 WOULD BE BEFORE THESE GUIDELINES CAME INTO BEING.
[01:10:01]
BUT ANYTHING ELSE WOULD POTENTIALLY BE IN YOUR SITUATION.BUT WE HAVEN'T APPROVED ANYTHING LIKE THIS.
WE'VE APPROVED, UH, CARPORTS, BUT THEY'RE, YOU KNOW, MORE OF THE POST AND BEING BUILT WOOD VARIETY IN TOWN.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS YOU ASK ME THEN I'M LOOKING FOR PROMOTION.
SO WHAT I'M HEARING IS WE ARE ABOUT TO GO INTO AN TO A MOTION THAT MORE THAN LIKELY IS GONNA GO TO A DENIAL AT THAT POINT.
WHAT HAPPENS? BECAUSE AGAIN, THE STRUCTURE IS ALREADY HERE.
IF THERE IS NOT ANYTHING THAT WE CAN TELL THE APPLICANT TO DO TO MAKE IT CONFORMING.
'CAUSE WHAT I'M HEARING IS WE HAVE NO SOLUTION TO HELP.
WELL, IT'S, IT'S NOT OUR PURVIEW TO GET SOLUTIONS, IT'S JUST TO RESPOND TO WHAT'S BEING APPLIED FOR CHARLOTTE.
WHAT WOULD BE THE NEXT STEPS IF WE WERE TO DENY? SO IF IT WAS DENIED, DENIED, UH, THE APPLICANT COULD COME BACK AND WITH A NEW DESIGN, UM, TO, UH, TRY TO MEET THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE UDO.
UM, I UNDERSTAND, UH, THE APPLICANT WANTING TO USE THE BUILDING THAT HE PURCHASED, UNFORTUNATELY, UM, EVEN IF IT WITHOUT THE BUILDING PERMIT, I MEAN IT SHOULD HAVE BEEN CAUGHT.
UNFORTUNATELY, IT DIDN'T COME THROUGH THE PROPER PROCESS WHERE THE TOWN COULD HAVE CAUGHT IT AND SAID, THIS IS NON-COMPLIANT.
UM, YOU KNOW, DON'T PURCHASE THIS.
UM, IT DOESN'T MEET THE, THE, THE DESIGN REQUIREMENTS.
SO THE APPLICANT, IF IT IS DENIED TONIGHT, THE APPLICANT COULD COME BACK WITH A, UM, A STICK BUILT VERSION THAT WE COULD REVIEW.
UM, I CAN ALSO SAY THAT I DON'T KNOW WHAT WILL HAPPEN BASED ON OUR WORKSHOP.
THERE IS A TEXT AMENDMENT THAT HAS BEEN SUBMITTED TO ALLOW MEADOW CAR CARPORTS.
UM, WHAT WILL BECOME OF THAT? I DON'T KNOW, THAT'LL GO TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION, UH, IN DECEMBER AND THEN ULTIMATELY TO TOWN COUNCIL TO MAKE A DECISION ON.
THERE IS NO PROPOSED TEXT, UM, STAFF HASN'T DONE A REVIEW OF, UH, THE CARPORTS THAT ARE EXISTING NOW WITHIN OLD TOWN.
SOME OF THEM MAY BE NON-CONFORMING.
THEY WERE THERE BEFORE THE UDO WAS ADOPTED.
UM, SOME OF THEM MAY NOT BE, I DON'T KNOW WITHOUT ACTUALLY DOING THE RESEARCH.
UM, SO IT'S, IT'S AN UNFORTUNATE SITUATION, BUT GIVEN THAT THE FACT THAT THIS IS A PREFABRICATED BUILDING AND AS WAS STATED EARLIER, IT'S JUST DIFFICULT TO, TO RE-ENGINEER IT TO MEET THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE ORDINANCE WITHOUT COMPLETELY TAKING IT APART AND BASICALLY STARTING ALL OVER AGAIN.
WOULD THE APPLICANT LIKE TO TABLE THE, THE SUBMISSION OR HAVE US GO TO A VOTE? I'M GONNA HAVE A STRUCTURE THERE EVENTUALLY, WHETHER IT'S STICK BUILT, WHETHER IT'S THIS OR SOMETHING ELSE.
IT'S JUST A MATTER OF WHAT YOU GUYS ARE GONNA FINALLY APPROVE.
WELL, WE, WE DIDN'T HAVE THE CHANCE TO APPROVE IT THE FIRST TIME, SO I WOULD SUGGEST YOU GO THROUGH THE PROPER CHANNELS NEXT TIME.
UH, AND THERE MAY BE MORE DISCUSSIONS THAT WE COME UP WITH IN THE WORKSHOP AND, AND THAT COMES FROM THOSE.
SO I WOULD ENCOURAGE YOU TO, TO PAY ATTENTION TO THOSE AND SEE IF THERE'S SOMETHING THAT MIGHT HELP YOUR SITUATION TOO.
AND WE'LL ADD, UM, RIGHT NOW THE TENTATIVE SCHEDULE FOR THE TEXT AMENDMENT TO BE HEARD BY, UH, TOWN COUNCIL.
THE FIRST READING WOULD BE FEBRUARY WITH THE SECOND READING THE PUBLIC HEARING IN MARCH.
SO TABLING THIS APPLICATION, YOU KNOW, WHO KNOWS IT, THERE MAY BE SOME, UM, CHANCE THAT TOWN COUNCIL DECIDES TO APPROVE THESE TYPES OF BUILDINGS.
I DON'T KNOW AND I DON'T WANNA PROMISE ANYTHING OR, OR MISLEAD YOU, BUT, UM, WHO KNOWS? THERE COULD BE A POSSIBILITY.
ALRIGHT, WELL, I GUESS, SO I GUESS THE QUESTION IS, WOULD, WOULD YOU, YOU DO YOU WANNA TAKE, SO YOU HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO WITHDRAW IF YOU WOULD LIKE THAT WE DON'T MAKE A MOTION AND THEN YOU CAN WAIT AND SEE HOW THE, THE WE'LL HAVE A WORKSHOP, BUT ALSO PLANNING COMMISSION IS INVOLVED AND TOWN COUNCIL ULTIMATELY MAKES THE DECISION.
IF YOU WOULD LIKE TO WITHDRAW, WE CAN, YOU KNOW, AVOID THE MAKING DETERMINATION IF YOU WOULD PREFER.
[01:15:10]
OKAY.ARE WE DOING WORKSHOPS FIRST FOR, UM, ADOPTION OF MEETING DATES NEXT? SO THE, UM, I'M SORRY, I'M MAY BE TALKING AHEAD OF YOU.
[VII.3. Adoption of 2025 Historic Preservation Commission Meeting Dates: (Staff - Charlotte Moore)]
THE NEXT ITEM WOULD BE THE MEETING DATES FOR 2025 FOR THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION.UM, DO WE HAVE A MOTION TO ADOPT THESE AS SUGGESTED? I WILL, UH, MOTION TO ADOPT THE, UH, SCHEDULE FOR THE 2025 MEETINGS.
THE MEETING DATES ARE APPROVED,
[VII.4. Adoption of 2025 Historic Preservation Review Committee Meeting Dates: (Staff - Charlotte Moore)]
ARE LOOKING FOR AN ADOPTION OF THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION REVIEW COMMITTEE DATES, UH, LOOKING FOR A MOTION.I WILL, UH, MOTION TO APPROVE THE, UH, HBRC MEETING DATES FOR 2025.
THE MEETING DATES FOR THE HPR SIERRA APPROVED AND
[VIII.1. Workshop: Discussion Regarding Metal Canopies/Carports in Old Town Bluffton Historic District Relating to Upcoming Text Amendment Initiated by an Old Town Bluffton Property Owner (Staff - Charlotte Moore)]
NOW WE HAVE DISCUSSION THE WORKSHOP FOR CARPORTS.THE, UH, BRING UP, I DON'T HAVE MY PHOTOS HERE.
UM, SO THE, WHAT I DO, ALRIGHTY.
SO AS I JUST MENTIONED WITH THE PREVIOUS ITEM, WE DO HAVE A WORKSHOP, UM, WE, REGARDING METAL CAR REPORTS AND THIS, THE IMPETUS FOR THIS WAS A TEXT AMENDMENT THAT WAS SUBMITTED BY A PROPERTY OWNER WHO INSTALLED A METAL CAR REPORT, THE ONE THAT YOU SEE HERE.
UM, AND, UH, BACK IN DECEMBER OF 2023, UM, TOWN STAFF NOTICED THAT IT WAS ERECTED WITHOUT, UH, KOFA BEING APPROVED AND WITHOUT A BUILDING PERMIT.
AND, UM, THIS HAPPENS TO BE THE NEIGHBORING PROPERTY, UH, ON THOMAS HAYWARD STREET.
SO THE APPLICANT, UM, PROPERTY OWNER WOULD LIKE TO SEEK SOME RELIEF THROUGH THE TEXT AMENDMENT PROCESS TO ALLOW THE METAL CARPORT, UM, WITHOUT HAVING TO GO THROUGH THE, THE REQUIREMENTS LIKE WE JUST THE PREVIOUS APPLICATION WITHOUT HAVING TO GO THROUGH DESIGN REQUIREMENTS.
UM, SO THE APPLICATION HAS BEEN SUBMITTED AND STAFF WILL REVIEW THAT, UM, AND THEN PRESENT A STAFF REPORT TO THE PLANNING COMMISSION IN DECEMBER.
I CAN TELL YOU WE HAVEN'T BEGUN THIS PROCESS YET, SO I DON'T HAVE INFORMATION ON OTHER CARPORTS OF A SIMILAR NATURE WITH AN OLD TOWN.
UM, THE UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT ORDINANCE WAS ADOPTED IN AUGUST OF 2011.
SO SINCE THAT TIME WE HAVE IDENTIFIED THAT, UH, BUILDINGS 120 SQUARE FEET OR GREATER, UM, ARE CONSIDERED CARRIAGE HOUSES.
AGAIN, WE HAVE A FORM-BASED CODE, AND THOUGH WE CALL THEM CARRIAGE HOUSES, THEY DON'T NECESSARILY HAVE TO BE ENCLOSED.
THEY DON'T HAVE TO BE AN ACCESSORY DWELLING UNIT.
UM, WE'RE NOT SO MUCH CONCERNED ABOUT THE USE AS WE ARE THE BUILDING FORM AND THE APPEARANCE.
AND CLEARLY THESE MELO CAR PORTS DO NOT COMPLY WITH OUR CURRENT REGULATIONS THAT WE'VE HAD IN PLACE SINCE 2011.
UM, SO THE APPLICANT PROVIDED US WITH, UH, A NUMBER OF PHOTOS HE THAT YOU SEE FROM THE COMMUNITY.
AGAIN, UH, THIS IS THE ONE THAT WE JUST DISCUSSED, UM, AT 43 THOMAS HAYWARD.
AND YOU CAN SEE THE DIFFERENCE HERE.
UM, THERE ARE SOME OTHER METAL CAR PORTS.
THEY LOOK PROBABLY HAVE BEEN HERE FOR A WHILE.
UH, YOU CAN SEE THE HEIGHT DIFFERENCE.
UM, THERE ARE SOME OTHER ONES AROUND TOWN AS WELL.
UM, I WOULD IMAGINE THAT THIS HAS BEEN HERE FOR QUITE A WHILE, FOR DECADES, AND WE HAVE VARIATIONS.
THERE'S ANOTHER PREFABRICATED, UH, METAL CARPORT.
THIS ONE MIGHT BE METAL, IT MIGHT BE CLOTH.
I'M NOT CERTAIN WOODEN ONE HERE.
UM, REALLY NOT CERTAIN WHAT THAT IS BACK THERE.
UH, JUST A LOT OF VARIATIONS OF THESE DIFFERENT CARPORTS, UM, THROUGHOUT OLD TOWN.
SO, UM, THERE, THERE ARE TWO THINGS THAT WOULD NEED TO HAPPEN ON THIS PARTICULAR ONE HERE TO ALLOW IT TO REMAIN AS IS ONE THAT THE TOWN WOULD HAVE TO HAVE SOME SORT OF TEXT AMENDMENT TO ALLOW THE METAL CARPORTS.
THERE WOULD NEED TO BE SOME SORT OF EXEMPTION.
THE CONCERN WITH THAT THOUGH IS THAT THESE ARE VERY LARGE, UH, COVERINGS AND, UM, YOU KNOW, HOW DO YOU MAKE THAT
[01:20:01]
LOOK LIKE IT'S INTENDED FOR OLD TOWN? UM, AND ADDITIONALLY, THIS, UH, PROPERTY OWNER ALREADY HAS A CARRIAGE HOUSE ON THE PROPERTY.SO THIS METAL CARPORT WOULD BE TREATED AS A SECOND CARRIAGE HOUSE.
AND THE ONLY PLACE WITHIN OLD TOWN WHERE THAT'S PERMITTED IS IN THE RIVERFRONT EDGE DISTRICT.
UH, AND THOSE ARE AREAS WHERE ALONG THE RIVER, THE VERY LONG NARROW PROPERTIES REALLY THAT YOU DON'T SEE THE BUILDINGS THAT ARE SET BACK FROM, FROM BRIDGE STREET.
UM, SO THOSE ARE REALLY KIND OF THE TWO MAIN ISSUES FROM A DESIGN PERSPECTIVE, ARE THESE APPROPRIATE AND WHETHER OR NOT THERE SHOULD BE TWO CARRIAGE HOUSES PERMITTED, AND THIS MAY BE SOMETHING NOT NECESSARILY THAT WE LOOK AT FROM A ZONING DISTRICT PERSPECTIVE THAT MAYBE IT'S A, YOU KNOW, LAND AREA.
HOW MUCH LAND DO THEY HAVE? WHERE IS IT LOCATED ON THE PROPERTY? UM, I DON'T KNOW.
I DON'T HAVE ANY ANSWERS JUST YET.
SO THE, THE POINT OF TONIGHT IS JUST PUTTING THIS OUT THERE FOR THE COMMISSION TO OFFER SOME FEEDBACK.
IT MIGHT HELP WITH GUIDANCE AS STAFF BEGINS TO FORMULATE, UH, A RECOMMENDATION FOR THE PLANNING COMMISSION.
UH, SO LET'S GO DOWN THE LINE FOR COMMENTS OR SUGGESTIONS, COMMISSIONER DEPAUL.
UM, I GUESS, I MEAN, JUST KIND OF STARTING, THERE'S OBVIOUSLY A HISTORY OF HAVING SOME, YOU KNOW, CARPORT STYLE ELEMENTS IN OLD TOWN.
UM, YOU KNOW, I I THINK IT WOULD BE FINE IF THERE WAS SOME MORE, YOU KNOW, STRIP, IF YOU WERE CONSIDERING CARPORTS, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE A LITTLE BIT MORE OPEN, UM, KIND OF A LITTLE BIT MORE OF A STRIP DROWN WATERFRONT MARINE KIND OF AESTHETIC TO THAT IN AS AN ACCENT TO THE HOME OR AS LIKE A SIMPLER VERSION OF THE HOME.
I THINK THERE'S A PATH FORWARD FOR THAT.
I'M NOT REALLY SOLD THAT A PREEN THAT THERE SHOULD JUST BE A GENERAL BLESSING THAT WOULD EVER PRE-ENGINEERED METAL, FABRICATED STRUCTURE IS OKAY.
I MEAN, I THINK WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE UDO, THERE ARE CLEAR, SOMEBODY CLEARLY THOUGHT OUT BEFORE, THERE'S A LOT OF MANUFACTURED HOMES IN TOWN AND SO THEY ALLOWED FOR THOSE TO BE REPLACED WITH JUST REPLACED AND NOT LIKE ANY NEW ONES IN THE OLD TOWN AREA WITH NEW MANUFACTURED HOMES.
I THINK YOU COULD TAKE A, AN APPROACH LIKE THAT TO THESE FOR THE EXISTING ONES AND KIND OF WELCOME THEM AS BEING EXISTING NONCONFORMITIES.
UM, THE, THE NEWER ONES, I, YOU KNOW, I MEAN ARE, WE JUST HAD A DISCUSSION ABOUT IT NOT REALLY KEEPING WITH THE SPIRIT OF THE REST OF THE CODE AND, YOU KNOW, THE USE OF HONEST MATERIALS TO DEVELOP DETAILING.
I MEAN, THERE'S SECTIONS IN HERE ABOUT FRANCHISE ARCHITECTURE, UM, AND THAT, YOU KNOW, FRANCHISE ARCHITECTURE NEEDS TO BE MODIFIED TO FIT INTO OLD TOWN.
AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, WE SHOULD CONSIDER, YOU KNOW, THAT IN THE UDO AS AS KIND OF GUIDANCE THAT IT'S NOT NECESSARILY A GOOD IDEA TO JUST BLANKET ALLOW THESE MANUFACTURED HOMES OR NOT, OR NOT MANUFACTURED, UH, THE, UM, CARPORTS, PREFABRICATED CARPORTS.
UM, YOU KNOW, ALLOWING SOMETHING THAT'S JUST KIND OF LIKE RUBBER STAMPED DEVICE STAFF THAT'S A PREMADE THING THAT IS OF THIS SIZE, UH, SEEMS LIKE A VERY SLIPPERY SLOPE TO ME, ESPECIALLY WHEN WE'RE REQUIRING RESTAURANTS TO DO THINGS LIKE MAKE ELABORATE, NOT NECESSARILY ELABORATE, BUT BUILD, UM, SHEDS AROUND THEIR WALK-IN COOLER.
SO IT'S NOT JUST A WALK-IN COOLER FLO ON THE, THE LOT.
I DON'T, YOU KNOW, SEE HOW YOU JUST SAY THAT A SHED LIKE THIS GIGANTIC THING IS COOL.
I MEAN, IT'S BIGGER THAN A LOT OF GARAGES.
A LOT OF THE HISTORIC GARAGES ARE WAY SMALLER THAN THIS THING.
UM, AND THEN, YOU KNOW, KIND OF THE OTHER ISSUE, WHICH IS ALLOWING TWO CARRIAGE HOUSES.
I MEAN, ON A LOT THAT IS A LOT MORE DEVELOPMENT THAN I THINK ANYBODY EVER INTENDED TO BE ON ANY OF THESE LOTS IN OLD TOWN.
I MEAN, IT WAS OBVIOUSLY CONSIDERED THEY ALLOWED FOR TWO CARRIAGE HOUSES ON THE RIVERFRONT LOTS.
THERE ARE LARGER LOTS, BUT YOU KNOW, ALL THE OTHER DISTRICTS YOU CAN PRETTY MUCH SUBDIVIDE INTO 50 FOOT WIDE LOTS.
EVERYBODY'S TR EVERYTHING'S TRENDING THAT WAY.
ALL THE OTHER UDO AMENDMENTS HAVE BEEN TRENDING TOWARDS, YOU KNOW, CREATING LESS DEVELOPMENT.
AND IF YOU WERE TO KIND OF ALLOW A SECOND CARRIAGE HOUSE STRUCTURE OR A CARPORT, I DON'T SEE HOW, YOU KNOW, EVERY RESTAURANT IN TOWN DOESN'T ADD AN OUTDOOR BAR AND EVERYBODY'S SUDDENLY GOT, YOU KNOW, A, UH, OYSTER SHED OUT IN THE BACK AND, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A WHOLE LOT MORE STRUCTURES ON THESE REALLY TINY LOTS BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE NOW ALLOWED TO DO THAT.
UM, SO I, I THINK ALLOWING A, AN ADDITIONAL STRUCTURE JUST AS KIND OF A BLANKET APPROACH REALLY,
[01:25:01]
REALLY NEEDS TO BE THOUGHT OUT WHAT THOSE DOWNSTREAM IDEAS ARE THAT PEOPLE WILL USE IT FOR.'CAUSE UM, YEAH, THAT'S A, THAT'S A BIG CHANGE FOR TOWN.
I MEAN, I, I KIND OF SECOND EVERYTHING THAT JOE SAID.
I MEAN, MY CONCERN IS SOMETHING THIS BIG, UM, NOT CONNECTING WITH THE HOUSE AT ALL, UM, HAVING ANY, ANY RELATIONSHIP TO THE HOUSE AT ALL AND JUST BEING A METAL STRUCTURE.
I, I THINK IT HAS TO HAVE SOME RELATIONSHIP.
UM, I MEAN I, YOU CAN STILL USE THESE, I I JUST THINK THEY NEED TO BE DRESSED OUT AND HAVE SOMEWHAT OF A SCALE.
UM, I WORRY THAT IT COULD OVERPOWER A GARAGE BIGGER THAN A GARAGE.
SO THIS ONE HAS A TALL GARAGE, BUT IF, IF THERE WAS A STRUCTURE LIKE THIS AND JUST A SINGLE CAR GARAGE, I MEAN, VERY WORRISOME.
COMMISSIONER FRAZIER, UM, RESTAURANTS AND RESIDENTIAL ARE TWO DIFFERENT TYPE OF, I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IN REGARDS TO THEM COMING IN AND, AND THEY, THEM HAVING TO DRESS UP SO THAT, YOU KNOW, THOSE CAN'T BE SEEN IN WHAT HAVE YOU IN OLD TOWN.
UM, SAME TYPE OF CONSIDERATION DOES NEED TO BE TAKEN INTO PLAY.
HOWEVER, I THINK THAT AS WE ARE LOOKING AT THIS, THE UDL NEEDS TO REALLY ADDRESS IT IN A BETTER LIGHT BECAUSE IT IST A CA CARRIAGE HOUSE, EVEN THOUGH THE SQUARE FOOTAGE FITS INTO THAT PLAY OR WHAT HAVE YOU, WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT SOMETHING A LITTLE DIFFERENT, UM, WHATEVER THAT MAY LOOK LIKE.
PEOPLE HAVE A RIGHT TO BE ABLE TO, UM, COVER THEIR VEHICLES, BOATS, WHATEVER THAT MAY BE.
SO IN OLD TOWN, JUST LOOKING AT A BETTER WAY TO DO IT.
I MEAN, ARE YOU THINKING THAT, WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS ON, I MEAN, I DON'T DISAGREE THAT THAT, YOU KNOW, SOMEBODY CAME IN WITH SOMETHING A LITTLE BIT MORE STRIPPED DOWN.
AND WHEN I SAY THAT I, I KIND OF THINK MORE LIKE WOOD CONSTRUCTION BECAUSE TRADITIONALLY THAT'S WOOD CONSTRUCTION IN THE OLD TOWN.
BUT IF SOMEBODY HAD A SIMPLER, YOU KNOW, COUPLE OF COLUMNS AND SOME ROOF TRUSSES WITH A KIND OF AN EXPOSED ROOF LOOK LIKE WE WOULD BE OPEN TO APPROVING THAT.
IT'S NOT THAT IT NEEDS TO BE, HAVE ALL THIS TRIM AND OTHER ELEMENTS TACKED ONTO IT, BUT I MEAN, I AGREE WITH DO YOU, DO YOU OR DO YOU THINK, UH, WHAT IS YOUR FEELING ON KIND OF THE METAL CARPORT APPROACH TO PROVIDING THAT, DO YOU THINK? I MEAN, I, I BELIEVE THAT IT NEEDS TO BE SCALED IN A, IN A CERTAIN WAY.
IT DOESN'T NEED TO BE OVERPOWERING.
UM, AND THAT'S BASICALLY WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT FOR IT NOT TO BE OVERPOWERING, BUT ALSO GIVING THESE, UM, PROPERTY OWNERS THE RIGHT TO PUT WHAT THEY NEED ON THEIR PROPERTY, UM, TO HOUSE, WHETHER IT'S CARS, BOATS, UM, WHATEVER THAT MAY BE.
YEAH, I MEAN I THINK, I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT.
LIKE, LIKE, YOU KNOW, IF YOU'RE JUST TRYING TO FIT YOUR TRUCK UNDERNEATH SOMETHING AND THAT'S A PRETTY BIG VEHICLE, YOU HAVE A MUCH SMALLER CARPORT THAN TRYING TO SHOVE A, UH, OR MAKE SURE IT COVERS AN ENTIRE RV.
THAT'S, THAT'S, I MEAN, THAT'S IMMEDIATELY LIKE 14 FEET TALL.
THAT'S, THAT'S A LITTLE DIFFERENT.
BUT WE HAVE SEEN STRUCTURES THAT WERE SYMPATHETIC TO THE HISTORIC NATURE OF, OF OLD TOWN BLUFFTON AND HAD A DETAILS THAT WERE COMPLIANT WITH THE UDO.
WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THE BOAT STORAGE SHED THAT'S JUST DOWN THE STREET.
WE SENT AN ENCLOSED ONE IN STOCK FARM.
THERE ARE OTHER, UM, EXAMPLES AROUND TOWN.
THERE'S A WAY TO DO IT WITHOUT USING A PRE-ENGINEERED ABSOLUTELY, ABSOLUTELY.
AND I DO THINK THAT THE UDO SHOULD SPEAK TO THAT AND, AND SPLIT OFF.
I DON'T KNOW IF, IF THE TITLE FOR THAT CHAPTER JUST CHANGES FROM CARRIAGE HOUSE TO ANCILLARY STRUCTURE AND THEN WE TALK ABOUT ZONING AND DIFFERENT DISTRICTS AND WHICH SIZE LOTS ARE ALLOWED TO HAVE A CERTAIN NUMBER OF ACCESSORY STRUCTURES.
I, I AM FOR MORE DENSITY IN OLD TOWN.
THERE'S ONLY A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF, OF ACREAGE IN OLD TOWN BLUFFTON.
UM, AND SOME OF YOU KNOW, IT WOULD BE NICE TO BE ABLE, FOR INSTANCE, TO HAVE ADUS OR OTHER SORT OF LIVING DWELLING UNITS ON PROPERTIES IF POSSIBLE, AS LONG AS THEY'RE OF AN APPROPRIATE SCALE AND DETAILED APPROPRIATELY.
UH, THAT'S SEPARATE FROM KIND OF WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.
BUT IT'S WORTH MENTIONING I SEE AS THE, UH, TOWN STAFF IS GOING THROUGH THE UDO AMENDMENTS, UM, MR. CHAIR.
[01:30:03]
NOW I, I WANT TO TREAD VERY CAREFULLY HERE BECAUSE I'M A RESIDENT OF CHARLIE WETMORE 48 LAWRENCE STREET.I'M A RESIDENT OF OLD TOWN, BUT THE REASON I'M OFFERING TO SPEAK TO YOU, AND YOU CAN STOP ME IF YOU DON'T WANT ME TO, IS BECAUSE WE DID A WORKSHOP ON THIS AND PLANNING COMMISSION.
AND IF YOU THINK IT'S BENEFICIAL, I WOULD LIKE TO SHARE SOME OF THE THINGS THAT WE WERE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT AND HOPING TO MAYBE GET SOME DIRECTION FROM Y'ALL RECOMMENDATIONS FROM Y'ALL SO THAT WE COULD WRESTLE WITH IT AND PASS IT ON TO COUNCIL.
UM, SO THREE PEOPLE WEREN'T KIND OF LIKE Y'ALL ARE TONIGHT.
UM, AND IT WAS, IT WAS PRETTY MUCH SPLIT DOWN THE MIDDLE ON FEELINGS ON THIS.
UM, A COUPLE PEOPLE WANTED MORE OF A, AND I DON'T MEAN THIS IN A BAD WAY, BUT MORE OF A UNIFORM STRUCTURE.
UM, STICK TO THE CARRIAGE HOUSE THAT WE HAVE, STICK TO THE HOUSE THAT WE HAVE, UH, MAKE SURE THE MATERIALS ARE THE SAME.
UM, AND A COUPLE OF US, UM, LOOKED AT IT AND SAID, OKAY, WAIT A MINUTE.
UH, BLUFF 10 IN 1970 AND 1980, UM, WAS A LITTLE, SOMEONE SAID JUNKIE, SOMEONE ELSE CORRECTED IT TO QUIRKY, I THINK QUIRKY'S THE, THE ACCURATE ECLECTIC.
UM, AND THE FEAR OF THE ENACTING THE 2011 UDO IS THAT WE END UP WITH TOO MUCH COOKIE CUTTER AND NOT, NOT ENOUGH ECCENTRIC OR QUIRKINESS.
WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE.
UM, I THINK WE WRESTLED WITH SHOULD THERE BE SOMETHING ELSE IN THE UDO FOR, UH, COVERED, BUT, UM, UN ENCLOSED STRUCTURES MAYBE WITH NO ELECTRIC, NO WATER.
THOSE ARE THE KIND OF THINGS THAT WE KINDA WRESTLE WITH THAT WE'RE HOPING THAT MAYBE YOU CAN GIVE US SOME SUGGESTIONS ON FROM AN HPC PERSPECTIVE.
'CAUSE I KNOW YOU'RE A LOT MORE INTO, UM, WHAT THEY LOOK LIKE AS WELL.
AND SO THAT'S JUST BRIEFLY WHAT WE DISCUSSED.
AND I DON'T KNOW IF IT HELPS OR NOT.
I MEAN, I THINK, I THINK WE CERTAINLY DON'T REVIEW BASED ON THE PICTURES THAT ARE IN THE UDO AT ALL.
UM, I THINK WE'RE TAKING THE PROJECTS AT FACE VALUE AS THEY COME UP, AND I THINK WE DO APPRECIATE THAT ECLECTIC NATURE.
I, I WOULD SAY THAT WE HEARD IT TONIGHT, PEOPLE COME IN AND THEY EXPECT THAT LIKE THE PICTURE SHOULD BE WHAT THEY'RE DOING OR THAT THEY'RE FOLLOWING, YOU KNOW, THE SPECIFICS OF THAT SECTION IN A VERY RIGID WAY WHEN I FEEL LIKE WE AS A, A BOARD AREN'T REALLY AS CONCERNED WITH THAT.
IT'S MORE ABOUT THE ZONING REQUIREMENTS FOR LIKE A SIDE YARD HOUSE HAS A PORCH ON THE SIDE, NOT NECESSARILY THAT IT LOOKS LIKE THE PICTURE THAT'S IN THERE.
UM, BUT CLEARLY PEOPLE ARE, HAVE BEEN IN THE PAST AND CONTINUE TO BE CONFUSED BY THE TERMINOLOGY CARRIAGE HOUSE WHEN IT REP, WHEN IT APPLIES TO SO MANY THINGS.
AND STAFF HAS TO GET UP HERE AND GO THROUGH LONG EXPLANATIONS ABOUT IT SO THAT EVERYBODY IN THE ROOM UNDERSTANDS, UM, WHETHER THAT'S A NEW SECTION TO HANDLE, YOU KNOW, OPEN AIR STRUCTURES AND MAYBE REST IS A LITTLE BIT MORE LIKE, YOU KNOW, OPEN, OPEN BACKYARD PORCHES AND THINGS AND CARPORTS, UM, AND OPEN STRUCTURES OR WHETHER THAT'S, UM, RECONFIGURING THE CARRIAGE HOUSE STRUCTURE, I GUESS IS A QUESTION THAT SECTION.
BUT I COULD SEE, I COULD SEE, YOU KNOW, UH, OUTDOOR PORCHES, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE HAVE FREESTANDING OUTDOOR PORCHES.
THEY PUT THE, YOU KNOW, FIRE PIT IN THE MIDDLE AND ROAST OYSTERS ON THEM.
THERE'S LOTS OF, THERE'S A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT THINGS THAT COULD FALL INTO A, AN URBAN STRUCTURE STRUCTURE SECTION.
UM, YOU KNOW, AGAIN, I THINK IT'S A LITTLE BIT MORE WOOD FRAMED AND MAYBE IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE AS ORNAMENTAL AS A HOUSE.
UM, ALTHOUGH, YOU KNOW, CERTAINLY SOME STRIPPED DOWN HOUSES THAT COME THROUGH THAT AREN'T ORNAMENTAL.
UM, YEAH, I DON'T SEE ANY HARM IN ADDING A SEPARATE SECTION FOR YEAH.
I'M JUST TRYING TO THINK OF, BUT I DON'T SEE IT BEING A METAL CARPORT THAT'S PREFABRICATED.
AND IT'S UP NOW THE, YOU GET THE MANUFACTURER'S CUT SHEET AS STAFF AND UH, YOU KNOW, WHAT ARE THE, WHAT ARE THE PARAMETERS THAT YOU EVEN DEFINE TO WHAT IS AN ACCEPTABLE CARPORT? NOT LIKE THIS ONE HAS METAL SIDING, I GUESS IT WOULDN'T HAVE METAL SIDING, BUT I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU DRAW A LINE.
THERE'S GOTTA BE SO MANY DIFFERENT KINDS OF THESE THINGS OUT THERE AND ALL, ALL SHAPES AND SIZE.
I MEAN, THIS ONE, THIS ONE, THIS PICTURE IS ENORMOUS.
YEAH, I MEAN, I THINK IF THERE WERE A SEPARATE SECTION WITH OPEN AIR STRUCTURES, IT WOULD HAVE SOME OF THIS EITHER THE SAME LANGUAGE OR CALL BACK TO THE SAME LANGUAGE FROM OTHER SECTIONS THAT TALK ABOUT, ABOUT HISTORICALLY USED MATERIALS AND HISTORICALLY USED,
[01:35:01]
UM, PROPORTIONS AND APPLICATIONS.JUST THE SAME AS ANY, ANY OTHER OTHER SECTION WE HAVE FOR THAT ARE PRESCRIPTIVE.
DOES THAT HELP AT ALL? IT DOES VERY MUCH.
I GUESS THE OTHER THING, BECAUSE IT'S WHEN YOU'RE DOING OPEN STRUCTURES, UH, THE HOW DO YOU TREAT THE CEILING IS ALWAYS A BIG EXPENSE.
SO, YOU KNOW, HAVING TO DO BE GROOVE ALL THROUGH A CEILING IS AN EXPENSIVE APPROACH.
IT'S MEAN METAL OVER PERLIN YEAH.
WOULD BE SYMPATHETIC TO THE OLD BOAT SHEDS WE SEE AROUND OLD TOWN, LIKE I'M THINKING.
EVEN THAT, I MEAN, YOU END UP WITH MORE STRUCTURE AND YEAH.
SO, UM, I GUESS, YOU KNOW, IT COULD BE OPEN FOR CONSIDERATION WHETHER SOME MORE SHE COULD TYPE THINGS WOULD BE ACCEPTABLE, YOU KNOW, FOR THAT KIND OF USE.
T ONE, I MEAN T ONE ELEVEN'S BEEN USED A LOT, UH, MORE RECENTLY.
IT'S NOT AS, IT'S CERTAINLY NOT A HISTORIC SNO, BUT I MEAN, IT'S MORE, I MEAN, IT'S PRETTY INGRAINED FROM LIKE THE EARLY SIXTIES AND HILTON BLUFFING ON.
UM, BUT, BUT THAT'S ALSO SOMETHING THAT WE COULD CONSIDER ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS.
JUST LIKE WE DO NOW WITH, YOU KNOW, HARDY WRAPPED COLUMNS.
BUT IF YOU'RE LOOKING TO TRY TO, YOU KNOW, CREATE AN OPTION FOR A LESS EXPENSIVE STRUCTURE IN TOWN, UH, I FEEL LIKE THAT'S ALWAYS KIND OF A PRETTY KEY CONSIDERATION IN AN OPEN STRUCTURE.
AGAIN, THAT'D BE A PRETTY BIG CHANGE.
'CAUSE IT'S BEEN PRETTY MUCH AGAINST T ONE 11, UH, T ONE 11 AND SHUTTERS BEING WOOD AND WINDOWS NOT BEING FALSE, IT SEEMED LIKE THAT.
BUT OPEN STRUCTURES, DIFFERENT, VERY SPECIFIC THINGS THAT H HP C HAS, HAS REALLY HELD ONTO WELL, AND THEN THERE'S A, THERE'S A SQUARE FOOTAGE COMPONENT OF THIS THING TOO, BECAUSE WHERE DO YOU STOP THIS AND BECOME A CARRIAGE HOUSE? AND IF IT'S A TRUE STORAGE SHED, IT REALLY SHOULDN'T BE GETTING OF THE SQUARE FOOTAGE OF AN ACTUAL CARRIAGE HOUSE, OR IT WOULD BE CARRIAGE HOUSE SECTION.
SO, WELL, WE HAVE A SHED NEW SHED SECTION THAT WAS ADDED INTO THE SHED.
IT WAS THE MISSING SORT OF PORTION THAT WE MISSING.
SQUARE FOOTAGE BETWEEN THE MEDIUM HOUSE TYPE OR YEAH.
BUT THERE WAS THAT SHEDS WERE ADDED IN BETWEEN 121 SQUARE FEET TO 200 AND SOMETHING WHICH WOULD CAPTURE SHEDS.
UH, THERE SHOULD PROBABLY ALSO BE JUST LOOKING AT THIS LIKE SOME THOUGHT INTO, UH, 'CAUSE YOU KNOW, WHAT IS, 'CAUSE IT'S NOT REALLY A PORT OR CARRIAGE HOUSE IS IS LIKE GRAVEL CONTINUING UNDERNEATH NEATH THE PROOF.
SOME GUIDANCE ON THAT WOULD PROBABLY BE GOOD.
I THINK IT COULD BE, BUT I THINK YOU'D NEED TO THINK ABOUT HOW COLUMNS SIT ON THE GROUND IN A STRUCTURE AND HAVING SOME SORT OF BASE TO THAT, OR AT LEAST HIERARCHY TO THE COLUMN.
SOME SORT OF BASE DETAIL ON THE COLUMNS PROBABLY IMPORTANT, THOSE GUIDELINES.
THAT WRAPS UP OUR COMMENTS SO THAT DISCUSSION ITEM'S.
[VIII.2. Historic District Monthly Update. (Staff - Charlotte Moore)]
WE'LL DO THE HISTORIC DISTRICT MONTHLY UPDATE.SO THE UPDATE, UH, IS REGARDING THE VARIOUS SITE FEATURES THAT HAVE BEEN APPROVED.
OUR, UM, PLANNER, ANGIE, UH, CASTON ACTUALLY REVIEWS THESE.
AND, UM, SO FOR THIS MONTH, I, THERE'S NOT A NUMBER HERE, I NEED TO COUNT 2, 4, 6, 8.
DO WE HAVE ABOUT NINE, UH, SITE FEATURES, UM, RANGING ANYWHERE FROM REROOFING TO NEW POOLS WITHIN THE OLD TOWN.
UM, AND WE SEEM TO BE, UH, STAYING FAIRLY BUSY, UH, GETTING APPLICATIONS ALMOST DAILY NOW.
SO, UM, ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THESE QUESTIONS ON ANY OF THOSE? LOTS OF NEW SIGNAGE? LIKE THAT'S EVERY MONTH.
WE DO NOTICE WE ARE PICKING UP, UM, MORE PRE-APPLICATION MEETINGS.
[01:40:01]
SO EVERY WEEK NOW WE'RE HAVING THAT.WE DON'T HAVE ANY HPRC FOR NEXT WEEK, BUT I ANTICIPATE, UM, THIS WINTER WE'RE GONNA PROBABLY BE SEEING MORE WEEKLY MEETINGS.
ANYBODY DOESN'T HAVE ANYTHING ELSE THEN I'M LOOKING FOR A MOTION TO ADJOURN.