[00:00:04]
OF COMMUNITY SERVICES AND PUBLIC SAFETY COMMITTEE FOR MONDAY, DECEMBER 5TH.
UH, TO ORDER, WOULD YOU PLEASE, UM, JOIN ME FOR THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE? PLEDGE ALLEGIANCE TO FLAG UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, AND TO THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS, ONE NATION INVISIBLE.
[3. PUBLIC NOTIFICATION OF THIS MEETING HAS BEEN PUBLISHED, POSTED, AND DISTRIBUTED IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE SOUTH CAROLINA FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT]
UH, OF THE, UH, MEETING, I AM PRESENT.SO WE HAVE A QUORUM AND WE HAVE, UH, PAUL SUMMERVILLE HERE WITH US AS WELL.
UM, WE ANTICIPATE THAT OTHERS MAY BE JOINING US IF THEY'RE IN PERSON OR ONLINE.
WE'LL HAVE TO WAIT AND SEE HOW THAT DEVELOPS.
UM, I'VE BEEN ASSURED THAT PUBLIC NOTIFICATION OF THIS MEETING HAS BEEN PUBLISHED, POSTED, AND DISTRIBUTED IN COMPLIANCE WITH THE SOUTH CAROLINA FREEDOM OF INFORMATION ACT.
[4. APPROVAL OF AGENDA]
APPROVAL OF THE AGENDA.MAY I HAVE A MOTION IN THAT REGARD? MR. SOMERVILLE? UH, MR. CHAIRMAN, I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO AMEND THE AGENDA TO INCLUDE THE APPROVAL OF THE EMPLOYMENT OF MARILYN HARRIS AS A BEAUFORT COUNTY COUNCIL REPRESENTATIVE ON THE BEAUFORT HOUSING AUTHORITY.
UH, AS OF THE MOTION YOU'RE GOING TO MAKE YEAH, THE MOTION TO AMEND MY OKAY.
IS THERE ANY DISCUSSION DURING NO DISCUSSION? IS THERE ANY OBJECTION TO AMENDING THE AGENDA DURING NO OBJECTION.
UH, NOW WE WILL MOVE BACK TO ITEM NUMBER FOUR FOR APPROVAL OF THE AGENDA.
MAY I HAVE A MOTION TO, UM, APPROVE THE AGENDA? SORRY.
DURING DISCUSSION, HEARING NO DISCUSSION, WE WILL APPROVE THE AMENDED AGENDA WITHOUT OBJECTION.
ARE THERE ANY OBJECTIONS? HEARING NO OBJECTIONS? THE AGENDA HAS BEEN APPROVED.
AND I'LL NOTE THE ARRIVAL OF, UH, MR. GLOVER.
JOIN US HERE ON THE, ON THE DAIS.
[5. APPROVAL OF MINUTES]
THE APPROVAL OF THE MINUTES FOR THE OCTOBER 10TH COMMUNITY SERVICE MEETING.MAY I HAVE A MOTION, PLEASE? I'LL MAKE A MOTION.
IS THERE ANY DISCUSSION ON THAT HEARING? NO DISCUSSION.
WE'LL APPROVE THE MINUTES WITHOUT OBJECTION.
ARE THERE ANY OBJECTIONS? HEARING NO OBJECTIONS.
THE MINUTES HAVE BEEN APPROVED.
I'LL ALSO NOTE FOR THE RECORD THAT MR. CUNNINGHAM, UH, THE VICE CHAIR, HAS JOINED US, UH, AT THIS MEETING AS WELL.
DO WE HAVE ANY CITIZEN COMMENTS ONLINE OR FROM THE AUDIENCE? SARAH? NO, SIR, WE DON'T.
[7. DISCUSSION OF A PENDING ORDINANCE TO PROVIDE MAINTENANCE WORK ON PRIVATE ROADS.]
THE AGENDA ITEMS. THE AGENDA ITEMS, UH, THE, UH, ONLY AGENDA ITEM.WHILE THERE ARE TWO AGENDA ITEMS, HAVING HAD THE AGENDA AMENDED, THE FIRST AGENDA ITEM IS A DISCUSSION OF A PENDING ORDINANCE TO PROVIDE MAINTENANCE WORK ON PRIVATE ROADS.
AND NEIL DESAI IS HERE TO HELP US WITH THIS.
BEFORE HE MAKES HIS COMMENTS, I'M GOING TO, UH, TRY AND DO SOME INTRODUCTORY COMMENTS.
THIS WAS VOTED ON TWICE WITH POSITIVE RESULTS, AND AT THE THIRD READING, UM, IT WAS VOTED BY COUNSEL TO RETURN THIS MATTER TO THE COMMUNITY SERVICES AND PUBLIC SAFETY COMMITTEE TO HAVE ADDITIONAL INFORMATION PROVIDED TO COUNSEL.
UM, SO THIS COMMITTEE CONVENED ON THAT, UM, LAST MONTH, AND A MEETING WAS HELD AND ADDITIONAL INFORMATION WAS PROVIDED WITH REGARD TO THE ORDINANCE, WHICH WAS ATTEMPTING TO PROVIDE MAINTENANCE WORK ON PRIVATE ROADS WITH PUBLIC FUNDS.
AND A LOT OF ADDITIONAL INFORMATION WAS GIVEN TO US, UH, TO CONSIDER.
CUZ IN REALITY, THE FIRST TWO VOTES ON THE FIRST AND SECOND READING, UM, THE COUNCIL WASN'T COMPLETELY IN, COMPLETELY INFORMED ON WHAT THE SITUATION WAS THAT EXISTED IN THE COUNTY WITH OTHER EXISTING ORDINANCES, NOR WERE WE FULLY INFORMED, UM, THROUGH NO ONE'S FAULT THAT THIS ACTION ACTUALLY, IF WE WERE TO UNDERTAKE IT, WOULD MORE THAN LIKELY SIMPLY BE ILLEGAL.
SO WE CONVEN WE CONVENED THE MEETING, AND THE MEETING CLEARLY SHOWED US THAT THERE WERE ORDINANCES IN PLACE ALREADY AND HAD BEEN FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS, THAT WOULD ALLOW THE COUNTY TO PARTICIPATE IN A PROGRAM TO PROVIDE MAINTENANCE FOR, UM, PRIVATE ROADS THAT WOULD, UM, INVOLVE NOT ONLY THE ROAD WORK, BUT ALSO TREE WORK THAT MAY HAVE TO BE DONE SO THAT A TALL OR HIGH EMERGENCY VEHICLES, LIKE FIRE TRUCKS COULD MAKE THEIR WAY DOWN THESE ROADS.
[00:05:01]
IN PLACE, UH, STATED THAT, UM, THE PEOPLE WHO LIVED ON THE PRIVATE ROAD WOULD HAVE TO GIVE THEIR PERMISSION, AND THEN THEY WOULD ALSO HAVE TO AGREE, UH, TO PAY FOR THE WORK THAT WAS UNDERTAKEN.AND THEY COULD DO THAT WITH A ONE TIME PAYMENT, OR BY THE CREATION OF A SPECIAL TAX DISTRICT WHERE THEY COULD PUT THE COST OF IT, THAT WOULD BE, UM, UH, PAID BY ALL OF THE PEOPLE WHO LIVED ON THE PRIVATE ROAD ON THEIR PROPERTY TAXES SO THEY COULD MAKE THAT PAYMENT OVER TIME.
THERE'S ALSO A PROCESS IN PLACE IN THE COUNTY THAT WOULD ALLOW PEOPLE WHO OWN A PRIVATE ROAD TO MAKE APPLICATION TO THE COUNTY, FOR THE COUNTY TO TAKE OVER THAT PRIVATE ROAD AND MAKE IT A COUNTY ROAD.
AND THEN THE COUNTY WOULD INCUR THE OBLIGATION OF MAINTAINING THAT ROAD FOR USE FOR NORMAL USE AND ALSO FOR ACCESS BY EMERGENCY VEHICLES.
UM, THAT WAS THE INFORMATION THAT WAS PRETTY MUCH PROVIDED TO US AT THE, UH, COMMUNITY SERVICES MEETING.
AND IT WAS PRETTY, IT WAS MADE PRETTY CLEAR THAT, UM, THE EXISTING ORDINANCE THAT WAS PASSED A NUMBER OF YEARS AGO, UM, WAS THE ORDINANCE THAT WOULD ALLOW US TO DO THIS KIND OF WORK WITH PERMISSION AND AN AGREEMENT FOR PAYBACK OF THE EXPENSES AND THE MATTER THAT WE WERE UNDERTAKING SIMPLY TO PROVIDE PUBLIC FUNDS TO MAINTAIN A PRIVATE ROAD WAS AN INAPPROPRIATE WAY TO GO.
THAT WAS THE INFORMATION WE RECEIVED AT THE, UM, UH, FROM THE, AT THE COMMITTEE MEETING.
SO I THINK IT'S, UH, INCUMBENT UPON US TODAY HERE TO FURTHER THAT DISCUSSION AND DECIDE WHAT IT IS WE WANT TO RETURN TO, UH, THE COUNSEL FOR ACTION.
IT WOULD SEEM TO ME, BASED ON WHAT WE NOW KNOW, THAT I WOULD HOPE WHEN WE GO BACK TO COUNSEL THAT THERE WOULD BE A NO MOTION FOR A THIRD READING.
IF THERE WAS A MOTION FOR A THIRD READING, I WOULD HOPE IT WOULD NOT GET A SECOND.
IF IT DID GET A SECOND AND THEN IT PASSED, I THINK WE WOULD FIND OURSELVES IN THE SITUATION OF HAVING ACTUALLY TAKEN AN ACTION TO AUTHORIZE AN ILLEGAL ACTIVITY.
AND THEN I THINK WE WOULD PROBABLY LOOK FOOLISH, AND THEN I THINK THE COUNTY WOULD HAVE TO SUE US TO HAVE THAT ORDINANCE REPEALED AND IT WOULD LOOK FOOLISH AGAIN.
SO I THINK THAT MOVING DOWN THAT PATH IS PROBABLY NOT THE BEST WAY TO GO, AND I THINK THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE TO CONSIDER HERE TODAY, WHAT OUR ACTIONS WOULD BE AT THE FULL COUNCIL MEETING WHEN THIS IS PRESENTED FOR ALL OF OUR REVIEW AND CONSIDERATION.
SO I'VE ASKED NEIL DESAI, UH, TO COME AND GIVE US ADDITIONAL INFORMATION THAT HE'S BEEN KIND ENOUGH TO PUT TOGETHER THROUGH SOME EXTENSIVE RESEARCH ON THE EXTENT OF THE ISSUE AS IT RELATES TO THE MAINTENANCE OF THE PRIVATE ROADS.
AND ESSENTIALLY, I THINK YOU MAY EVEN HAVE SOME INDICATION OF WHAT THE COSTS MAY BE GOING FORWARD.
SO, NEIL, IF YOU'D BE KIND ENOUGH TO TELL US WHAT YOU'VE DISCOVERED? YES, SIR.
GOOD AFTERNOON, CHAIRMAN AND COMMITTEE MEMBERS.
UM, WORKING WITH OUR GIS DEPARTMENT, WE DID AN EVALUATION OF ALL THE COUNTY, COUNTY PRIVATE DIRT ROADS.
UM, THIS LIST AMA TO 1001 39 PRIVATE ROADS, WHICH EQUALED 287 MILES.
CAN YOU SPEAK UP JUST A LITTLE BIT? SORRY.
SO IT WAS A TOTAL OF 1,139 PRIVATE ROADS, AND THAT EQUALED TO ABOUT 287 TOTAL MILES, ADDING ALL THOSE TOGETHER.
UM, ADDITIONALLY, WE'LL, WE LOOKED AT WORK EFFORTS AND HOW TO CATEGORIZE THE WORK EFFORT, AND WE DECIDED TO CATEGORIZE IT IN THREE DIFFERENT, UH, BASKETS, SO TO SAY.
UH, MINIMAL EFFORT IF YOU WOULD, WOULD BE JUST COMING INTO A ROAD AND GRADING IT.
NO MATERIALS, NO CUTTING OF LIMBS, BUT JUST COMING IN AND LADING THE ROAD, SO TO SAY.
AND THAT ROUGH ESTIMATE CAME OUT TO BE ABOUT $10,000 PER MILE.
OBVIOUSLY EACH ROAD VARIES IN LENGTH, AND SO IF YOU, YOU CAN JUST EXTRAPOLATE AND USE THAT AS A, A GUIDELINE MEDIUM EFFORT, WHAT I CONSIDERED WOULD BE IS ANYTHING THAT WOULD BE GRADING A ROAD, PROVIDING SOME ADDITIONAL ROCK CRUSH AND RUN MATERIAL, ANYTHING OF THAT NATURE.
AND ALSO CUTTING UP THE WHIS AND THEN HAULING THAT OFF, UH, THAT AMA TO ABOUT 18 A MILE.
AND FINALLY, LARGE EFFORTS, WHICH WOULD BE NUMEROUS TRUCKLOADS OF MATERIAL, EXTENSIVE AMOUNTS OF GRADING, AND THEN A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF LIMITING UP OR WHATNOT TO GET THE ROAD, UH, DISTANCE AND, AND VERTICAL DISTANCE.
FOR LARGE VEHICLES AND EMERGENCY VEHICLES THAT AMASSED ABOUT 35 K PER MONTH.
UM, ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS FROM ANYONE, UH, PRESENT HERE IN THE CHAMBER OR ONLINE? UH, WITH REGARD TO MY COMMENTS OR TO MR. THEISE COMMENTS? I HAVE A QUE MR. CHAIRMAN A QUESTION.
UM, THE EXISTING POLICIES THAT YOU KIND OF WENT OVER, THERE IS A METHOD NOW WHERE THE WORK COULD BE DONE IN AN EMERGENCY SITUATION
[00:10:01]
AND THEN CHARGED BACK TO THE OWNER.IN AN EMERGENCY SITUATION, UH, THEY WOULD EVALUATE THE CONDITION OF THE ROAD, UM, AND I THINK THE FIRE DEPARTMENT HAS AGREED TO GO AND DECIDE WHICH WERE THE ONES THAT WOULD BE THE ONES THAT WOULD BE MOST SEVERELY IN NEED OF THAT WORK.
AND IT'S TO GET EMERGENCY VEHICLES DOWN THERE ESSENTIALLY.
UH, AND IT MAY INVOLVE THE ROAD ITSELF AND IT MAY INVOLVE THE TREES OVERHANGING THE ROAD.
AND, UM, WE COULD USE PUBLIC FUNDS TO DO THAT WORK WITH PERMISSION OF THE OWNERS OF THE ROAD.
AND THEIR AGREEMENT TO EVENTUALLY REPAY US FOR THE COST OF THE MONEY THAT WE USED TO ENGAGE IN THAT ACTIVITY.
AND THEY COULD PAY US, UM, WITH A ONE TIME PAYMENT THAT'S DIVIDED, UH, AMONG OR BETWEEN THE PEOPLE WHO ON THE ROAD AND OR THEY COULD CREATE A SPECIAL TAX DISTRICT FOR THE WORK ON THAT ROAD, AND THEY COULD ATTACH THOSE FUNDS TO A PAYOUT OVER TIME ON THEIR PROPERTY TAXES ON AN ANNUAL BASIS.
BUT THAT ASSESSMENT HASN'T BEEN DONE, BUT IT COULD BE DONE.
THAT'S THE WAY THE ORDINANCE THAT CURRENTLY EXISTS.
THE LANGUAGE IN THE ORDINANCE STATES THAT, AND IT WOULD HAVE TO BE DONE ON AN INDIVIDUAL BASIS, ROAD BY ROAD WITH THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE THERE.
AND, UH, I THINK, UH, I'M NOT SURE IF THE ORDINANCE SAID 75% OF THE HOMEOWNERS OR IF IT'S A HUNDRED PERCENT, UH, I DON'T, I DON'T REMEMBER EXACTLY.
SO, UH, I DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENS TO THE OTHER 25% WHO, WHO DON'T WANNA DO IT.
BUT, UH, THERE IS, THAT'S THE ONLY WAY AT THIS POINT, ALICE, WHERE WE, WE COULD ACTUALLY PUT THE MONEY OUT MM-HMM.
AND NOW YOU SAY, WELL, SUPPOSE EVERYBODY AGREES TO A PROPERTY TAX, TO A SPECIAL TAX DISTRICT, AND THEN SOME OF THE HOMEOWNERS DECIDE THEY'RE NOT GONNA PAY THEIR PROPERTY TAXES.
WELL THEN WE'RE FACED WITH AN ADDITIONAL ISSUE OF A TAX SALE OF THE PROPERTY TO RECLAIM THE MONEY THAT WE HAVEN'T RECEIVED, WHICH FURTHER COMPOUNDS THE PROBLEM FOR THE HOMEOWNER WHO REALLY WAS SIMPLY TRYING TO GET THE ROAD FIXED.
BUT I THINK THE, THE OTHER OPTION IS, AND I DON'T UNDERSTAND, UM, I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY OBSTACLE TO DOING IT OTHER THAN THE FACT THE COUNTY MAY BE RELUCTANT AT TIMES.
IF THEY OFFER THE PRIVATE ROAD UP, UH, TO BECOME A PUBLIC ROAD AND OWNED BY THE COUNTY, THEN THE COUNTY HAS THE OBLIGATION TO DO THAT WORK.
BUT I'M NOT, UH, AN EXPERT ON WHY THE COUNTY WOULD NOT ACCEPT A PUBLIC ROAD.
CAN YOU HELP ME WITH THAT, NEIL? OR IS THAT PUTTING YOU ON THE SPOT? SO, CERTAIN SITUATIONS, UH, THE EXISTING ROAD MAY NOT HAVE THE FULL RIGHT OF WAY SOMETIMES WE'RE LOOKING FOR.
AND THAT MIGHT BE A CONSTRAINT FOR US.
UM, ADDITIONALLY, A HISTORICAL ROAD, PARTICULARLY IN A LOW LYING AREA, MAY HAVE SOME WETLANDS THAT ARE IMPACTING IT.
SO THERE'S SOME ENVIRONMENTAL IMPACTS THERE.
UM, AND SO NUMEROUS ISSUES LIKE THAT CAN SOMETIMES, UM, PREVENT US FROM ACCEPTING.
GERALD? I, I SEE A MOVEMENT, BUT I, I DON'T HAVE A SOUND.
CAN YOU HEAR ME LOUD AND CLEAR? ALL RIGHT.
UM, TO, TO YOUR POINT, LARRY, AND TO ALICE'S QUESTION ABOUT, UM, THE, THE PAID, I MEAN THE, THE COUNTY ACTUALLY DOING THE WORK ON THE ROAD, UM, AND ACTUALLY PROVIDING, UH, THE CITIZENS ACCESS INTO THE ROAD.
UM, IN THE PAST WE HAVE, WE HAVE ALREADY, UH, THE COUNTY, UM, ACTED ON ONE OF THOSE ORDINANCE THAT ALLOWED THE RESIDENTS ON THE ROAD, I THINK WAS EITHER 71 OR 75, 5%.
AS NEIL SAID EARLIER, PERCENT OF THE CITIZENS HAD TO AGREE TO ACTUALLY, UM, UH, UH, REIMBURSE THE COUNTY FOR THE WORK THAT IS DONE ON THESE PRIVATE ROAD TO MAKE IT PASS.
WE, WE HAD A SITUATION, UM, IN THE BURTON COMMUNITY WHERE CATO LANE IS AND WAS A PRIVATE ROAD.
AND, UH, WHENEVER IT RAINED, UM, OR ANY INCLEMENT WEATHER, THOSE FOLKS COULD NOT GET IN AND OUTTA THAT ROAD.
UH, AND IF THEY DID, THEN THE POTHOLES WERE SO DEEP UNTIL IT WAS ACTUALLY, UM, UH, HARD FOR THEM TO EGRESS AND INGRESS OUT OF THERE.
SO WE CAME UP WITH THE ORDINANCE TO ACTUALLY ALLOW THEM TO, UM, GET 71 OR 75% OF THE, UH, CITIZENS ON THAT ROAD TO ACTUALLY SIGN THE PETITION TO HAVE THE COUNTY MAINTAIN THE ROAD WITH THE OBLIGATION OF THOSE CITIZENS ON THAT ROAD, REIMBURSING THE COUNTY FOR THE MAINTENANCE OF THAT ROAD AND NEED IT.
CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG, ARE WE NOT MAINTAINING THAT ROAD ROLE TODAY? I BELIEVE SO.
UH, GERALD, IS IT YOUR UNDERSTANDING THAT, UH, WHEN THE MAINTENANCE IS PERFORMED, THAT THERE'S
[00:15:01]
A REIMBURSEMENT BY THE PEOPLE WHO LIVE THERE? YES.I WANNA MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND THE, THE ROAD THAT MR. DAWSON IS TALKING ABOUT, THAT IS A PRIVATE ROAD THAT IS BEING MAINTAINED BY THE PEOPLE OF THAT ROAD AND THEY'RE PAYING THE COUNTY TO MAINTAIN THAT ROAD.
IS THAT WHAT I'M HEARING, NEIL? IT'S A PRIVATE ROAD THAT IS BEING MAINTAINED BY THE COUNTY AT THE EXPENSE OF THE PROPERTY OWNERS, PROPERTY OWNERS ON THAT ROAD.
SO THAT IS ACTUALLY HAPPENING AT THIS TIME.
I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND TO MY, OKAY.
NEIL, CAN YOU CONFIRM THAT? IS THAT WHAT'S HAPPENING ON THAT ROAD? IF IT'S A COUNTY ROAD, WE ARE MAINTAINING IT.
THE ROAD THAT HE'S REFERRING TO IS A PRIVATE ROAD.
UH, AND WHAT HE'S SAYING IS THAT THE CITIZENS ON THAT ROAD IS PAYING FOR THE MAINTENANCE OF THAT ROAD AND THEY'RE PAYING THAT TO THE COUNTY.
THAT THEY AGREE THAT THEY AGREE.
THAT'S WHAT THE AUDIENCE SAYS.
AND I'M ASKING IS THAT'S TRUE.
WELL, WE'D HAVE TO GET THE ROAD NAME SO YOU CAN LOOK IT UP AND TELL US.
I DON'T THINK HE'S GOT IT IN THE BACK OF HIS HEAD, BUT MR. COSTON SEEMS PRETTY POSITIVE THAT THAT'S HAPPENING.
FOR SOME REASON, I'M, I'M REMEMBERING THAT ROAD IS HALF COUNTY AND THEN THE BACK HALF IS PRIVATE.
SO IF YOU GIMME TIME TO CHECK, I'LL GET, GET BACK THAT ANSWER TO YOU.
SO YOU MIGHT BE JUST MAINTAINING, PAINTING A CERTAIN PORTION.
IT, AND THAT HAPPENS, THAT HAPPENS PRETTY FREQUENTLY.
SO HE DOESN'T NOT, UH, EQUATE TO THIS ORDINANCE HERE IF YOU ARE MAINTAINING THE FRONT PART.
BECAUSE THAT'S A COUNTY ROAD, CORRECT.
YEAH, IT WOULD HAVE TO GO ALL THE WAY THROUGH.
THEY'D HAVE TO REIMBURSE HIM FOR THAT.
AND THAT'S WHAT HE NEEDS TO RESEARCH.
SO I DON'T KNOW WHETHER THAT'S TRUE GERALD OR NOT, BUT THAT'S FOR THE BEING MAINTAINED AT THIS TIME.
WE ARE MAINTAINING THAT PORTION.
WE'D HAVE TO, WE'D HAVE TO FIND OUT.
YOU MIGHT BE TALKING ABOUT TWO DIFFERENT ROADS.
MR. DAWSON KNOWS THE NAME OF THE ROAD.
GERALD, DO YOU KNOW THE NAME OF THE ROAD? UH, IT'S CATO LANE.
YOU'LL HAVE TO GET BACK TO US ON THAT CUZ THAT QUESTION WILL, IF IT'S WE DON'T ANSWER IT TONIGHT, IT'LL COME UP AT THE, UH, COUNCIL MEETING, I'M SURE.
UH, ANYTHING ELSE, UH, FROM ANYONE ONLINE? UH, LOGAN.
UM, I THINK YOU SUMMED IT UP REALLY WELL AT THE BEGINNING.
UM, I WAS THE ONE THAT, YOU KNOW, THOUGHT ABOUT BRINGING THIS BACK HERE TO GET SOME MORE INFORMATION AND HONESTLY I WAS KIND OF HOPING WE WOULD FIND A WAY TO MAKE THIS WORK, WHETHER IT'S A PAYMENT PROGRAM, UM, TO GET THAT REIMBURSEMENT.
IT DOESN'T SEEM LIKE THAT'S GONNA HAPPEN.
I DON'T THINK IT SHOULD GET MOTION FOR A THIRD READING.
UM, IF WE HAVE TO MOVE IT FORWARD TO COUNTY COUNCIL TO END THE THIRD READING, I THINK THAT SHOULD BE OUR NEXT MOVE JUST TO MAKE SURE THAT HAPPENS.
IF WE NEED TO LEAVE IT HERE IN COMMITTEE.
UM, I DON'T KNOW THE EXACTLY HOW THAT WORKS, IF WE HAVE TO GO BACK TO GET IT TURNED DOWN.
UM, I DID HAVE ONE QUESTION CAUSE I WAS HAVING TROUBLE HEARING, IT'S MY FAULT CAUSE I'M NOT THERE.
HOW MANY MILES WAS IT TOTAL? 287.
AND LET'S SAY IT WAS THE MIDDLE ROAD IS 18,000.
UM, SO WE'RE LOOKING AT OVER 5 MILLION IS WHAT WE'D BE LOOKING AT.
I THINK, YOU KNOW, IN ANSWER TO YOUR COMMENT, UH, I, I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT.
IF YOU LOOK AT THE FIRST TWO VOTES, WE WERE TRYING TO FIND A WAY TO GET THIS DONE BECAUSE THE VOTES, UH, THE FIRST FEW TIMES WERE POSITIVE.
SO THERE WAS A GREAT DEAL OF EFFORT AND THOUGHT, I THINK TRY, UH, THAT EVERYONE PUT INTO IT TO TRY AND HAVE A WAY TO MAKE THIS HAPPEN.
AND THEN WE DISCOVERED WHEN IT WAS SENT BACK FOR REVIEW AND CONSIDERATION AND ADDITIONAL INFORMATION TO BE DEVELOPED THAT, THAT THERE WAS NO WAY AT THIS POINT TO DO IT OTHER THAN THROUGH THE EXISTING ORDINANCES THAT WE HAVE.
AND THAT'S, I THINK WHERE WE FIND OURSELVES AT THE MOMENT.
UM, MR. CHAIRMAN, UM, I I WANT TO ASK YOU, THIS IS THE ONLY THING ON THE AGENDA THAT'S, UH, THERE'S ONE OTHER ITEM THAT HAS TO DO WITH AN APPOINTMENT OF SOMEONE TO THE BEFORD HOUSING AUTHORITY, BUT THAT'S SIMPLE.
WOULD YOU INDULGE ME, UM, WITH SOME TIME TO JUST TALK THROUGH SOME THINGS? YEAH, OF COURSE.
CAUSE IT IS PROBABLY GONNA TAKE ME A MINUTE.
AND, UM, SO I'M ASKING PERMISSION FIRST BEFORE I GET STARTED.
UM, LET ME SAY THIS, THAT, UM, ONE OF THE, UM, MAJOR CONCERN THAT I HAVE IN RURAL
[00:20:01]
BURE COUNTY, UM, IS THAT A LOT OF LAND IS OWNED BY A LOT OF DIFFERENT PEOPLE, PARTICULARLY ON ST.AND, UM, IT'S, AND SOME OF IT IS ACTUALLY HEIR'S PROPERTY, SO THERE'S NO QUESTION ABOUT THAT.
AND SOME OF THE PROBLEMS WE'VE BEEN HAVING WITH HEIR'S PROPERTY, JUST GETTING EASEMENT, IS TRYING TO WORK THROUGH COUNTY, UM, UH, ORDINANCE TO GET HEIR'S PROPERTY, UM, RESIDENT TO SIGN EASEMENTS JUST FOR, UM, UM, JUST GET EASEMENTS TO DO STONE WATER OR TO DO ROADS, ET CETERA.
UM, THIS PROBLEM IS NOT, IS A TYPICAL PROBLEM ALL OVER THE COUNTY, BUT IS MORE PRONOUNCED ON ST.
HELEN AND IN, UH, THE SHELDON AREA.
UM, AND WITH THAT, UM, WE STILL HAVE THE SAME PROBLEM.
WHETHER I LIVE IN THE CITY OF BEAUFORD OR WHETHER I LIVE IN THE TOWN OF BLUFFTON, DRAINAGE IS A PROBLEM AND GETTING ACCESS TO ROADS IS A MAJOR PROBLEM.
UM, HAVING JUST DIRT ROADS, BUT MAINTAINING THAT DIRT ROAD, UH, IS NECESSARY FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE.
I, I, I, I GOT, UM, A MAP THAT I WOULD LOVE FOR, UM, UM, MS. BROCK TO PULL UP, UM, DEALING WITH THE, FOR JUST FOR YOUR INFORMATION.
AND THEN, AND THE FIRST ONE IS, IS, UM, IS ACTUALLY THE HAYWOOD FRI ROAD.
UM, IF YOU COULD JUST PULL THAT MAP UP.
NOW, BASED ON OUR ORDINANCE THAT WE HAVE, IF YOU LOOK AT THAT ROAD THERE, THE HAYWOOD FRI AND THE OWNER OF THAT PROPERTY, ALL THE OWNERS OF THAT PROPERTY DO NOT HAVE A HOUSE, UH, BE, UH, BEYOND THE MAJOR OAKS PLANTATION ROAD.
UM, BUT YET THE ROAD IS ON ONE PEOPLE, ONE FAMILY LAND.
UH, 61, 41 AND AND WHAT'S THAT? 61 E IS, IS ONE FAMILY.
THERE'S NO HOUSE BACK THERE FOR THEM.
UM, BUT THE OTHER PARCEL OF LAND, THERE'S AT LEAST 10 HOUSES BACK THERE, BUT THE ROAD ITSELF IS OWNED BY ONE FAMILY THAT DOESN'T NEED ACCESS TO GET TO THEIR HOME.
BUT THE FOLKS BEHIND THERE NEEDED, IF YOU DID AN AUDIENCE BASED ON, UH, IF YOU IMPLEMENTED THAT ORDINANCE HERE, THE ONLY PERSON THAT WILL BE PAYING THE TAXES WOULD BE THE FAMILY, DON'T OWN THAT, DON'T EVEN NEED THE PROPERTY.
I MEAN, THEY NEED THE MAINTENANCE OF THE ROAD BECAUSE THEY DON'T LIVE BACK THERE.
BUT THAT'S A, WHAT WE CALL A LEGACY ROAD.
AND IF WE WANTED TO CLOSE THAT ROAD RIGHT NOW, WE COULDN'T BECAUSE THAT ROAD HAD EXISTED OVER 20 YEARS.
SO THE FAMILY BACK THERE, UH, USING OR, OR, OR EGRESSING ON SOMEBODY ELSE'S PROPERTY JUST TO GET TO THEIRS.
BUT IF THERE'S A NEED FOR EMERGENCY VEHICLES TO GET THERE, THAT FAMILY WOULD NOT NECESSARILY WOULDN'T EVEN THINK ABOUT, UM, AN ORDINANCE LIKE THIS HERE.
SO THAT THOSE FOLKS BACK THERE WOULD HAVE ACCESS TO THEIR ROAD.
UH, YOU PULL UP THE OTHER ONE, THE COMSE LANE BEFORE YOU GO THERE.
THE, THE PEOPLE THAT ARE USING THAT ROAD DON'T OWN IT.
SO IF, IF THEY WERE TO USE THIS ORDINANCE, THE ONLY PEOPLE THAT WOULD, WE WOULD NEED PERMISSION ARE THE PEOPLE THAT DON'T LIVE THERE.
AND THEY WOULD BE THE ONLY PEOPLE WHO WOULD HAVE TO PAY FOR THE, UH, MAINTENANCE OF THE ROAD.
AND THE PEOPLE WHO ARE USING THE ROAD WOULDN'T HAVE TO, IS THAT BASED ON THIS ORDINANCE? YES SIR.
THE OTHER ONE IS TO COME SEE LANE.
AND IF YOU PULL THAT UP FOR ME, SARAH, I APPRECIATE IT.
THE FRONT PART OF THIS ROAD IS ON TOM FRI ROAD AND THE OWNERS OF TOM FRI ROAD, UM, THE, THE FRONT PART OF TOM, TOM FRI ROAD AND DE COMI ROAD DO NOT WANT THAT ROAD TO BE A COUNTY ROAD.
IT USED TO BE A COUNTY ROAD, BUT WHEN THE COUNTY LOOKED AT THAT ROAD AND THEY SAID, UH, EITHER YOU BE PRIVATE OR YOU'D BE A COUNTY, THE FOLKS ON THE FRONT PART SAID, WE WANT IT TO BE A PRIVATE ROAD.
SO THE FOLKS BEHIND THAT ROAD IS SUFFERING RIGHT NOW BECAUSE THEY CAN'T GET ACCESS TO AND FROM ON, ON THAT ROAD BECAUSE OF WEATHER.
SO THE OWNERS OF THE FRONT PART IS SAYING, NO, WE WANT IT TO
[00:25:01]
BE PRIVATE, BUT THEY DON'T LIVE BACK THERE.THE FOLKS WHO LIVE BACK THERE, UH, COMPLAINING BECAUSE THEY CAN'T GET OUT WHEN THERE'S BAD WEATHER.
SO THEY'RE USING THE PRIVATE ROAD WITH PERMISSION OR THE PEOPLE WHO OWN IT, IT'S BEEN, IS A LEGACY ROAD THAT'S BEEN THERE.
SO THEY, THEY CAN'T, IT'S IMPASSABLE FOR THEM.
BUT THEY WOULDN'T AGAIN BE RESPONSIBLE FOR THE REPAYMENT FOR MAINTAINING IT CUZ THEY DON'T OWN IT EVEN IF THEY WANTED IT.
NO, THEY DO OWN THE BACK PART AND THEY WOULD BE RESPONSIBLE FOR IT IF, IF YOU PUT THIS ORDINANCE IN, IN, IN FOREST PUT THE FOLKS AT FRONT PART WOULD NOT BE PAYING FOR IT BECAUSE THEY DON'T LIVE BACK THERE.
SO IT COULD HAPPEN ON THIS ROAD HERE.
BUT THE PEOPLE AT THE FRONT OF THE COMI LANE AND TOM FIT ROAD, UH, DO NOT LIVE BACK THERE AT ALL.
WHEN YOU SAY LIVE BACK THERE, THEY DON'T LIVE ON THE ROAD, DON'T LIVE DOWN THAT ROAD.
THE COMSE LANE, PEOPLE WHO OWN THE ROAD DON'T LIVE ON IT, THE FRONT PART.
NOBODY OWNS THE TOTAL ROAD IS ALL PROPERTY ROAD THAT IT AT SOME POINT IN TIME WAS CREATED, UM, TO GET TO A, TO THEIR PROPERTY.
BUT THERE WAS PROBABLY NO RIGHT OF WAYS OR ANYTHING OF THAT NATURE.
NOW, IF I WAS GOING TO FINANCE A HOUSE BACK THERE, UH, I MAY HAVE TO, I MAY NOT FINANCE.
AND THAT'S SOME OF THE PROBLEMS CITIZENS ARE HAVING BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE ACCESS TO THE FINANCING COMPANY WOULD NOT HAVE ACCESS TO THAT PROPERTY IF FOR WHATEVER REASON THERE'S A FORECLOSURE.
SO THOSE ARE SOME OF THE PROBLEMS. BUT RIGHT NOW IT'S A DIRT ROAD AND THE FOLKS BACK THERE LIVES BACK THERE.
MOST OF THEM HAVE A MOBILE HOME OF SOME SORT.
SO IT'S NOT A PERMANENT HOME, BUT THEY LIVE BACK THERE AND THEY CAN'T, UM, UM, FOR THEM TO, TO APPLY FOR THIS ORDINANCE, THEY WOULD HAVE TO, UM, GET THE FOLKS TO AGREE.
CUZ THEY DON'T ON THE ROAD THEY DON'T ALL OF IT.
IT IS ON POTION AND THE POTION THEY OWN WOULD BE WHERE THE PARCEL IS.
SO THEY COULD GET THE PART THAT THEY LIVE ON FIXED, BUT THEY'D NEVER GET TO IT CUZ THEY COULDN'T.
IT'S IMPASSABLE FROM THE FRONT.
AND THIS ONE HERE IS A, UM, A LEGACY, UM, CEMETERY, UH, DOWN THAT THIS ROAD HERE, AND IT COMES OFF OF SEASIDE ROAD AND UM, IT GOES ALL THE WAY TO, UM, UM, YEAH, THAT ALL THE WAY.
AND THAT'S A CEMETERY AT THE END.
BUT YOU CAN SEE THE AMOUNT OF, UM, PARCELS THAT ARE THERE JUST TO GET THIS ORDINANCE PUT IN PLACE.
AND THIS IS JUST, UH, SO FOLKS CAN GET EVEN TO A, UH, ANCESTRAL CEMETERY.
UM, BUT IT'S IMPASSABLE EVEN FOR THE FOLKS THAT ARE LIVING THERE AT THIS TIME.
AGAIN, SOME OF THAT IS, IS PROPERTY.
NOW THE LAST MAP, I I I, AND YOU CAN JUST PULL UP ONE OF THOSE, UH, UH, SUSAN, I MEAN, UH, SARAH, IT DEALS WITH STONEWATER DRAINAGE.
AND EVER SINCE I GOT ON COUNCIL, I'VE BEEN WORKING ON GETTING EASEMENT FOR THIS ONE BIG MAJOR DRAINAGE AREA ON ST.
AND IN THAT WE HAVE OVER, UM, UM, THIS IS JUST A LITTLE, THIS IS JUST, IT'S THREE PAGES OF THIS.
AND THIS IS JUST ONE PAGE OF THE AMOUNT OF PROPERTY OWNERS THAT WE WERE WORKING ON JUST TO GET EASEMENT ON THESE PROPERTY SO THAT THE COUNTY CAN GO IN THERE AND MAINTAIN THE DITCHES THERE, UM, THAT HAS BEEN COLLAPSED AND, AND, AND, AND, AND UH, NEEDED TO BE CLEANED OUT.
AND WITH THAT, I CAN TELL YOU THERE WERE OVER 60 SOMETHING, UH, PARCEL OF LAND, UM, FROM THIS AREA HERE, DRAINING ALL THE WAY TO THE MARSH GOING OVER AND UNDER HIGHWAY 21, UH, FOR, FOR DRAINAGE.
UM, WE HAVE IN THE LAST FIVE YEARS WE HAVE GOTTEN ALL THESE PARCELS, UH, IN AGREEMENT, UH, TO, TO ALLOW THE COUNTY ACCESS EXCEPT FOR TWO.
AND THOSE TWO ARE BASICALLY HOLDING OUT FOR DIFFERENT REASONS, BUT THE COUNTY CANNOT GO IN THERE UNLESS THEY START CONDEMNATION PROCEDURE IN ORDER TO GET IN THERE.
THESE ARE SOME OF THE PROBLEMS THAT WE HAVE WITH AIR'S PROPERTY JUST TRYING TO GET DRAINAGE OR TRYING TO GET A ROAD.
AND A LOT OF THESE PARCELS HAVE THE SAME CONNECTION WHERE WE HAVE A LOT OF PARCELS.
NOW I KNOW THAT IF YOU ARE IN THE CITY OF BUFORD,
[00:30:02]
THE LAND IN THE URBAN AREA, YOU HAVE A CLEAR TITLE TO YOUR PROPERTY.YOU NEED DRAINAGE THAT CAN HAPPEN.
UH, WE JUST DID A MAJOR DRAINAGE AROUND THE MARC OAK AREA.
I CAN TELL YOU THAT SOME EASEMENTS WAS PROBABLY HARD TO GET, BUT YOU GOT IT AND YOU WERE ABLE TO PUT A GOOD DRAINAGE SYSTEM IN THERE FOR THE FOLKS IN MARCIO.
I DO KNOW THAT IN CERTAIN DEVELOPMENT AREA YOU HAVE THAT ALREADY SOLVED.
BUT WHEN YOU COME TO AIR'S PROPERTY AND WHERE ON ST.
HELEN, UM, UNTIL RECENTLY, MOST OF THE LAND ON ST.
HELEN WAS REALLY HELL IN COMMON.
IN COMMON MEAN THAT IF THERE WAS A ROAD, EVERYBODY USED THAT ROAD.
IT WASN'T MY ROAD OR YOUR ROAD, IT WAS A COMMON ROAD.
UM, WE HAD, UM, LAND, UM, UM, UH, EVERY COMMUNITY HAD THE GRAVE SITE.
SO IT BECOMES A PROBLEM NOW BECAUSE NOW THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO DO NOT LIVE THERE ANYMORE WHO HAVE SOLD THE PROPERTY AND FOLKS HAVE BOUGHT THAT.
AND NOW THEY CLAIMING THE GRAVE SITE IS CAUSING SOME PROBLEMS. BUT WE'LL WORK ON THAT.
AT THE SAME TIME, THEY WERE BOOK LANDINGS IN IN ON SING HELEN.
IT WAS IN COMMON, YOU KNOW, IF I LIVE IN OAKS, THERE WAS A, THERE WAS A BOAT LANDING THAT I COULD USE.
IT WASN'T MINE, IT WAS MY NEIGHBOR OR MY FAMILY OR SOMEBODY FROM THAT COMMUNITY.
BUT EVERYBODY COULD FISH, SHRIMP, WHATEVER OFF OF THAT BOAT LANDING TO GO OUT TO THE, SO IT BECAME A PROBLEM WHEN THAT LAND WAS SOLD AND THAT AREA NOW WAS CUT OFF.
SO NOW WE ARE LOOKING FOR OTHER AREAS AND OF COURSE THE COUNTY IS COMING WITH BOAT LANDINGS, WHICH MAKES IT EASIER FOR FISHERMEN TO GO OUT NOW.
BUT IN EVERY COMMUNITY YOU HAD A BOAT LANDING THAT WAS IN COMMON.
MOST OF THE GROUND, MOST OF THE LAND WAS IN COMMON.
THE GIFT FROM POINT A TO POINT B, YOU JUST WENT STRAIGHT.
IT DIDN'T MATTER WHETHER YOU CROSS WHOEVER LIED, I MEAN WHOEVER LAND, THAT WAS THE PATH TO GET TO POINT A TO POINT B.
NOW, WHAT WE HAVE NOW IS DEALING WITH LEGISLATION THAT SAYS IF IT'S PRIVATE, IT'S ON IT IS, IT'S, YOU CANNOT HAVE FUNDING FOR.
HOWEVER, IF IT'S A ROAD OF, OF COMMON PUBLIC USE, THEN IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THE LAW, UM, UM, UH, AND YOU AND UM, MR UM, KEVIN CAN, UH, CAN, CAN COMMENT ON THIS.
THE LAW SAID IF THE COUNTY COULD FIND A COMMON INTEREST, A COMMON GOAL, IT SEEMS TO ME, EVEN THOUGH IT'S PRIVATE, IT IS NOT PRIVATE BECAUSE I CAN'T CLOSE THE ROAD OFF.
THE FIRST PROPERTY I SHOWED YOU, WE TRIED TO CLOSE THAT ROAD OFF AND WE WERE TAKING TO COURT TO SAY YOU CAN'T DO THAT BECAUSE IT, IT, IT ACTUALLY WAS IN EXISTENCE FOR OVER 20 SOMETHING YEARS.
SO TO ME IT BECOMES A COMMON GOOD AREA.
AND ALL WE ASKING FOR IN THOSE AREAS, THAT IS A COMMON GOOD FOR EMERGENCY PURPOSE.
WHY CAN'T THE COUNTY GO IN THERE ONE TIME JUST TO KEEP THAT ROAD CLEAN SO THAT EMERGENCY VEHICLES, UH, CAN GO IN THERE.
IT'S STAYING WITHIN THE LANGUAGE OF THE ATTORNEY GENERAL OPINION THAT THE COMMON USE IS THERE.
NOW I DON'T KNOW WHETHER THAT'S PRACTICAL OR NOT.
I DON'T KNOW WHETHER THAT'S, YOU KNOW, THAT'S WHAT THE LAWYERS ARE HERE FOR.
BUT I UNDERSTAND NOT USING PUBLIC FUNDS ON PRIVATE ROADS.
AND I CAN TELL YOU BACK IN THE DAYS WHEN YOU HAD STATE LEGISLATORS WHO RAN THE COUNTY, WE PROBABLY HAD A LOT OF THAT UP TO THEIR DOOR.
BUT THAT WAS KIND OF SAY, HEY, THAT WAS BAD.
UM, YEAH, THERE HAS TO BE MORE OF A SUGGESTION WITH REGARD TO WHAT, WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH THERE AND HOW WE CAN DO IT WITHIN THE EXISTING, UH, WITHIN THE EXISTING ORDINANCE OR HOW THE EXISTING ORDINANCE COULD BE AMENDED TO INCLUDE THOSE AREAS THAT YOU DESIGNATE FOR THE COMMON GOOD.
BUT THEN WE'D HAVE TO GET AN OPINION AS TO WHETHER OR NOT THAT COMMON GOOD IF WE COULD USE PUBLIC FUNDS FOR THE COMMON GOOD.
AND HOW WOULD YOU IDENTIFY THOSE AREAS THAT ARE THE COMMON GOOD? I MEAN, THERE ARE 287 MILES OF, OF PRIVATE ROADS OUT THERE.
I THINK THAT I WISH CHIEF KLEIN WAS HERE.
HE SAID THAT HE WAS GOING TO TRY AND IDENTIFY THOSE ROADS THAT NEEDED THE MOST ATTENTION AND HE WAS GONNA TRY AND START A 5 0 1 C THREE CHARITABLE
[00:35:01]
ORGANIZATION TO ACCEPT DONATIONS SO THAT HE COULD GO IN AND, AND UM, ADDRESS THE ISSUE OF ROAD MAINTENANCE AND THE, UH, ISSUES RELATED TO THE, UH, UH, GROWTH OF THE TREES OVER THE ROADS.BUT WHEN YOU HEAR THE NUMBERS OF $10,000 TO $35,000 A MILE, I DON'T KNOW THAT HE WOULD EVER BE IN A POSITION TO BE ABLE TO RAISE DONATIONS AND THOSE AMOUNTS TO HANDLE THOSE MATTERS.
AND I UNDERSTAND MR. GLOVER, YOUR POINT ON, ON THOSE, UH, SITUATIONS WHERE, UM, THERE ROADS ARE FOR COMMON USE FOR THE COMMON GOOD, BUT WE'RE TO, TO ADDRESS THAT WITHIN THE EXISTING FRAMEWORK OF THE LI OF THE, UH, STATUTES THAT WE HAVE.
SO THERE'S GONNA HAVE TO BE A WAY, UH, IF THAT'S THE WAY WE WANT TO PROCEED, UH, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO ORGANIZE AN EFFORT TO COME UP WITH A PLAN TO ADDRESS THOSE ROADS THAT YOU'VE IDENTIFIED HERE AND PERHAPS OTHER ROADS THAT MAY GET SPECIAL CONSIDERATION.
AND I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S POSSIBLE, QUITE FRANKLY.
CAUSE AS YOU SAID, THAT'S GOING TO HAVE TO BE SOMETHING THAT WE'RE INFORMED BY OUR LEGAL COUNSEL AS TO WHETHER PUBLIC FUNDS CAN ACTUALLY BE USED FOR THAT AS WE EXIST AT THE MOMENT.
SO WHAT WE'RE SEEKING IS A WAY FOR THAT TO OCCUR AND TO GET THAT KIND OF THING DONE, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO, OR WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO UNDER YOUR LEADERSHIP PUT TOGETHER A STUDY TO TRY AND FIND OUT IF THERE IS A WAY TO GET THAT DONE.
AND I DON'T, I DON'T, I THINK THAT'S A GOOD IDEA, BUT I DON'T THINK THAT'S GONNA SOLVE THE IMMEDIATE PROBLEM, UH, OF THE FIRE DEPARTMENTS AND THE AMBULANCES GETTING UP AND DOWN THOSE ROADS.
AND IT DOESN'T APPEAR AS IF WE AS A GROUP CAN, CAN ASSIST ANYONE IN GETTING THAT IMMEDIATE ACTION THAT PEOPLE ARE REQUESTING.
IT'S ACTUALLY THE EMERGENCY SERVICES WHO ARE REQUESTING IT.
I DON'T THINK WE'VE BEEN ABLE TO FIND A WAY TO GET THAT DONE WITHOUT THE FULL PARTICIPATION AND COOPERATION WITH THE PEOPLE ALONG THE ROADS.
SO WE'RE KIND OF STYMIED AT THE MOMENT.
UM, BUT GOING FORWARD, I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S A WAY FOR US TO ISOLATE THOSE AREAS THAT YOU THINK, UM, PEOPLE WHO OWN AREN'T REALLY THERE AND PEOPLE WHO DON'T OWN IT ARE BEING BADLY AFFECTED BY THE FACT THAT THEY'RE NOT EVEN BEING ASKED IF THEY WANT TO PARTICIPATE CUZ THEY HAVE NO RIGHT TO PARTICIPATE IN GIVING US ACCESS OR BEING HELD ACCOUNTABLE FOR THE MONEY.
SO I THINK THAT'S A WHOLE EFFORT THAT'S GOING TO HAVE TO BE UNDERTAKEN IF WE WANT TO PURSUE THIS.
UM, UM, IT JUST MAKES IT DIFFERENT ENERGY, YOU KNOW.
IT JUST MAKES IT DIFFICULT WHEN YOU'RE DEALING WITH HEIR'S PROPERTY.
AND AND THEN A LOT OF THE HES ARE NOT EVEN HERE.
BUT YOU, YOU DEALING WITH A LEGAL DOCUMENT, SO IT MAKES IT VERY DIFFICULT.
UM, WE ARE ADDRESSING SOME HEIR'S PROPERTY WORKSHOPS.
WE'RE HAVING SOME WORKSHOPS TO TRY TO ADDRESS HEIR'S PROPERTY, BUT THAT'S DOWN THE ROAD, UH, AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED.
UM, BUT, UM, I LOST MY CHIN OF THOUGHT, MR. CHAIRMAN.
YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE.
THERE ARE HUNDREDS OF HEIRS THAT OWN PROPERTY.
SOME OF THEM DON'T EVEN KNOW THEY OWN IT BECAUSE AGREE.
UNTIL YOU DO THE RESEARCH AND THEY'RE INFORMED, THEY'RE PROPERTY OWNERS.
THAT'S THE FIRST THEY'VE HEARD OF IT.
YOU KNOW, SO IT'S A VERY CON IT'S A VERY CONFUSING AREA AND I AGREE WITH YOU.
ONE, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I, UM, AND, AND, AND, AND I UNDERSTAND THAT, UM, THE CHANCE, THE LIKELIHOOD OF THIS PASSING IS VERY SLIM.
UM, AND I HEAR MR. CHAIRMAN, UM, UM, ENCOURAGING, UM, TO, TO NOT PASS IT.
UM, BUT, UM, I, I WOULD, I WOULD ASK, UM, MISS CHAIRMAN, THAT, UM, YOU DO NOT PRESENT THIS TO A FULL COUNCIL.
JUST LEAVE IT WHERE IT IS RIGHT NOW.
UM, IF YOU DON'T MIND UNTIL WE CAN FIND A SOLUTION, UH, TO MOVE IT FORWARD.
NOW, I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHETHER THAT'S PRACTICAL OR NOT.
UH, IT'LL NEVER HAVE, UM, THE, THE VOTES, UM, TO PASS IT ANYWAY.
UM, BUT REDOING OR RESTARTING IT, UM, AT SOME POINT IN TIME AGAIN WOULD BE ANOTHER ISSUE.
BUT I WOULD ASK THAT, UH, THIS COUNCIL GO ON RECORD, UM, TO SAY THAT FOR EMERGENCY PURPOSES MM-HMM.
FOR AN EXAMPLE WE DON'T HAVE, AND I THINK COUNCIL NOW IS LOOKING AT PURCHASING A AMBULANCE WITH FOUR WHEELS, FOUR WHEEL FOUR, A FULL WHEEL DRIVE.
I, UH, IN TALKING TO THE SHERIFF ABOUT THAT, HE SAID TO ME, I
[00:40:01]
DON'T HAVE A PROBLEM.I CAN GET TO ANY PLACE I WANTED TO GET TO IN THIS COUNTY BECAUSE HE HAS VEHICLES THAT COULD DO THAT.
WE MAY NEED TO LOOK AT DOING JUST THAT FOR RURAL AREA, PARTICULARLY ON SEEING HELEN AND SHELLDON AND AREAS WHERE YOU HAVE A VEHICLE THAT CAN GO IN THERE, WHICH MEANS THAT THE FIRE DEPARTMENT HAS TO HAVE THE SAME THING TOO, WHICH MEANS THAT WE MAY HAVE TO PUT UP SOME FUNDS TO ALLOW THE FIRE DEPARTMENT TO GET FOUR WHEEL VEHICLES AS WELL.
I'M JUST PUTTING THAT ON THE TABLE.
AND I THINK THAT'S A SHORT TERM REMEDY WHERE YOU CAN GET THOSE VEHICLES TO GO DOWN THOSE ROADS SO LONG AS THE TREES DON'T GET IN THE WAY AND THAT THE FIRE DEPARTMENT HAS THE TREE ISSUE.
SO I HEAR, I HEAR WHAT YOU'RE SAYING AND YOU KNOW, IF THAT'S THE THING THAT WILL SOLVE THE PROBLEM IN THE SHORT TERM, I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING THAT THIS GROUP THAT WOULD BE LOOKING AT HOW TO RESOLVE THESE ISSUES COULD RECOMMEND FOR THE NEXT BUDGET CYCLE, WHICH STARTS IN JULY, RIGHT? YES.
I MEAN, WHAT I MEAN, OTHERWISE YOU HAVE TO GO THROUGH A SUPPLEMENTAL, BUT YOU'RE NOT GONNA GET IT DONE THAT FAST.
SO I THINK WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO BE PRACTICAL ABOUT IT AND REALIZE IT'LL PROBABLY TAKE THREE TO FOUR MONTHS TO COME UP WITH A CONCLUSION AND THEN YOU'RE INTO THE NEXT BUDGET CYCLE ANYWAY.
SO I DON'T THINK IT'S GONNA BE AN IMMEDIATE THING THAT YOU CAN RESOLVE EXCEPT THE AMBULANCE.
THE AMBULANCE ISN'T GOT A HEIGHT PROBLEM.
IT'S ONLY GOT A WHEEL PROBLEM.
SO THAT MIGHT BE ABLE TO BE DONE WITH SUPPLEMENTAL.
I'D HAVE TO GET SOME INPUT FROM THE, UH, FROM THE EXECUTIVE STAFF THERE ON THE COSTS OF ONE VEHICLE LIKE THAT, THAT COULD BE USED.
AND THEN IT WOULD BE A MATTER OF WHERE DO YOU DEPLOY IT AND WHERE WOULD, WHERE WOULD BE THE HEAVIEST CONCENTRATION OF THOSE ROADS THAT ARE IMPASSABLE AT A FOUR A FOUR WHEEL VEHICLE COULD, COULD PASS, YOU KNOW? WELL, SOMETHING LIKE AN AMBULANCE YOU WANT TO HAVE IN A COMMUNITY.
SO YOU DON'T WANT PUT ONE ON SHELDON, WE GOT NO, I KNOW.
WE HAVE TO DECIDE WHERE YOU'D PUT IT AND YOU'D HAVE TO PUT IT WHERE ALL THOSE ROADS WERE ESSENTIALLY IMPASSABLE.
BUT I THINK IN THE SHORT TERM YOU COULD DO THAT.
BUT IN THE LONG TERM, ALL THESE OTHER ISSUES, I DON'T HAVE AN ANSWER FOR YOU BECAUSE I'M FAMILIAR WITH THE PROBLEM WITH A'S PROPERTY, BUT THE COMMON OWNERSHIP OF THE ROADS FOR COMMON GOOD IS A CONCEPT I'M NOT REALLY FAMILIAR WITH.
AND I, I DON'T KNOW HOW THAT WOULD PLAY.
AND WE'D HAVE TO WAIT FOR OUR LEGAL TEAM TO, UH, TO EXPLORE THAT SOMEWHAT AND GET BACK TO US, YOU KNOW? WELL, THAT WAS THE LANGUAGE WE'RE TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH.
I JUST, I THINK WE CAN ACCOMPLISH IT WITH THIS.
AND YOUR FIRST ISSUE OF, OF STALLING THE ORDINANCE, I THINK WE HAVE TO TAKE ACTION ON THE ORDINANCE THAT'S EXISTING AND HAVE IT EITHER PASS OR GO AWAY.
I DON'T THINK WE CAN JUST LEAVE IT IN LIMBO.
IF WE PASS IT, THEN WE HAVE, WE'RE FACED WITH THE PROBLEM OF PASSING AN ILLEGAL ACT, AND THEN WE'LL PROBABLY HAVE TO REPEAL IT BY TAKING AN ACTION AGAINST OURSELVES.
SO I THINK WE WOULD LOOK FOOLISH ON TWO DIFFERENT OCCASIONS IF WE NO, YOU WOULDN'T LOOK FOOLISH NOW.
YOU'RE JUST CHALLENGING THE LAW.
WELL, UH, YOU'RE JUST CHALLENGING THE LAW.
RIGHT,
I MEAN, AND THEN THE POINT OF DOING THAT WOULD BE WHAT ESSENTIALLY WE ALREADY KNOW WE'RE TRY, WE WERE TRYING TO SOLVE THE PROBLEM.
THE FIRST TWO VOTES WERE POSITIVE TO TRY AND SOLVE THE PROBLEM UNTIL WE FOUND OUT THIS ADDITIONAL INFORMATION.
WELL JUST, UH, JUST LOOKING AT THE MINUTES OF, UM, THE OCTOBER MEETING AT WHICH COUNCIL VOTED TO RETURN THIS ISSUE TO THE COMMUNITY SERVICES COMMITTEE, THE, UM, MOTION WAS THAT, UM, COUNCIL POSTPONED THE PUBLIC HEARING AND THIRD READING OF THE ORDINANCE UNTIL THE DECEMBER MEETING AND TO REFER IT BACK TO YOUR COMMITTEE FOR ADDITIONAL INFORMATION TO BE PROVIDED TO COUNSEL.
SO WE TO BRING IT UP AT THE DECEMBER MEETING.
SO ACCORDING TO THE MINUTES, THE MATTER NEEDS TO BE RETURNED TO COUNSEL THE DECEMBER MEETING.
AND AT THE DECEMBER MEETING, LIKE I SAID, YOU'LL EITHER GET A MOTION OR NOT, OR A MOTION IN A SECOND OR NOT, AND THEN THERE'LL BE A VOTE, AND THE VOTE WILL EITHER BE POSITIVE OR NOT.
AND IF IT PASSES, THEN WE HAVE ADDITIONAL PROBLEMS OF, OF, UH, OF GOING FORWARD, UH, WITH, UH, AN ACTION THAT MAY BE EVENTUALLY DECIDED BY A COURT OF COMPETENT JURISDICTION TO HAVE BEEN, UH, IN INAPPROPRIATE ACTION BECAUSE YOU PASSED AN ILLEGAL ORDINANCE.
OR THERE COULD BE A MOTION TO REFER IT TO A COMMITTEE FOR FURTHER STUDY TO BRING BACK AT THE COMMITTEE'S DISCUSSION.
AND I THINK THAT MAY BE SOMETHING THAT WOULD, WOULD IN THE SHORT TERM PERHAPS ALLOW US TO GET THE FOUR WHEEL DRIVES THAT MR. GLOVER WAS REFERRING TO AND SOLVE THAT PROBLEM ALMOST IMMEDIATELY IF WE HAVE THE MONEY.
AND SECONDLY, TO LOOK AT THE LONG TERM, UH, IMPLICATIONS OF LOOKING AT THOSE ROADS.
AND I DON'T KNOW HOW WE WOULD IDENTIFY THEM, BUT THAT WOULD BE THE PROBLEM FOR A COMMITTEE TO SOLVE, WHICH ARE THOSE ROADS THAT ARE BEING USED FOR THE COMMON GOOD, SO TO SPEAK, UH, IF THERE IS SUCH A THING.
YEAH, MR. CHAIRMAN, IT, IT SEEMS, LOOKING BACK, WE WERE TRYING TO SOLVE A PROBLEM WITH A SHOTGUN INSTEAD OF A PISTOL.
AND, UM, I THINK WHAT WE NEED IS THAT INFORMATION ABOUT THE
[00:45:01]
ROADS THAT, THAT ARE SPECIFIC ISSUES WITH HE'S PROPERTY.WITH THE FIRE DEPARTMENT'S HELP AND THE RURAL AREAS.
AND THIS INFORMATION IS VERY HELPFUL THAT PUBLIC WORKS PROVIDED US.
UM, IT GIVES THE MAGNITUDE HOW LARGE IT COULD BE, BUT I DON'T KNOW THAT IT'S THAT LARGE A PROBLEM TALKING ABOUT THE ROADS FOR COMMON GOOD.
AND THAT MIGHT BE PUBLIC FACILITIES COMMITTEE OR, UM, YOUR COMMITTEE TO LOOK INTO WITH MORE DETAILS SINCE THE FIRE DEPARTMENTS AREN'T HERE TO TELL US THAT YET.
UM, BUT WE NEED THEIR HELP, I THINK, OR, OR, OR EMS UM, MR. CAVITY'S POINT THOUGH, IN DECEMBER WE HAVE TO TAKE AN ACTION ON THIS ORDINANCE.
AND I THINK THAT DESPITE THE FACT THAT, UH, THAT, UH, IT MAY BE, UM, UNPALATABLE TO SOME, WE HAVE TO TAKE AN ACTION.
AND I THINK WHAT WILL END UP DOING IS IT WILL FAIL.
I THINK, UM, IF IT DOES, THAT DOESN'T MEAN IT'S OVER.
IT SIMPLY MEANS THAT WE HAVE TO REGROUP WITH A REFERRAL BACK TO COMMITTEE FOR FURTHER STUDY ON THE SHORT TERM REMEDIES FOR ACCESS TO AREAS THAT ARE IMPASSABLE THROUGH THE PURCHASE OF VEHICLES THAT CAN GET IN THERE.
AND IN THE LONG TERM NEW YORK, I THINK ADDRESS THE ISSUE, UH, OF THE ROADS AS YOU POINT OUT THE INFORMATION OF PEOPLE WHO LIVE THERE, WHO DON'T OWN IT, AND PEOPLE WHO OWN IT AND DON'T LIVE THERE.
AND, UH, AND THEN TRY AND COME UP WITH A PLAN.
AND PARTICULARLY AS IT RELATES TO HEIRS PROPERTY, WHICH IS A, A, AN ISSUE THAT HAS SO MANY FACETS IN THIS COUNTY AND IN THIS STATE, THAT IT IS A, IT'S A ISSUE THAT IS IN THE COURTS ON A DAILY BASIS.
MASTER INEQUITY IS DEALING WITH IT ALL THE TIME.
MAGISTRATES ARE DEALING WITH IT ALL THE TIME.
AND IT'S ALMOST AN UNSOLVABLE PROBLEM IN A LOT OF WAYS BECAUSE THERE'S SO MANY PEOPLE INVOLVED WHO NEVER WANT TO AGREE ON ANYTHING, YOU KNOW, WITH REGARD TO PARTICULARLY DISPOSAL OF A PROPERTY, WHICH IS A WHOLE DIFFERENT ISSUE THAN GIVING PEOPLE ACCESS FOR EMERGENCY VEHICLES.
SO, UM, I THINK WE'RE GOING TO HAVE TO MOVE THIS ALONG HERE TODAY.
UH, I THINK, I'M SORRY TO MAKE YOU KEEP STANDING THERE.
IF WE NEED, IF WE NEED, UH, YOU BACK AGAIN, UH, I'LL GET YOU BACK UP.
BUT AT THIS POINT I'M GONNA ASK THE COMMITTEE TO, UM, TAKE AN ACTION TO SEND THIS FORWARD FOR, UM, REVIEW AND CONSIDERATION OF FULL COUNSEL WITH ALL THE INFORMATION THAT WE HAVE, UM, DISCUSSED HERE TODAY.
AND I'M NOT SURE IF IT NEEDS TO GO FORWARD WITH A RECOMMENDATION THAT WE NOT TAKE ACTION ON THE THIRD READING OR LET THE FULL COUNSEL DECIDE THAT WE'VE RECOMMENDED THAT IT BE PRESENTED TO COUNSEL FOR THEIR REVIEW AND CONSIDERATION AS TO WHAT KIND OF ACTION THEY'D PREFER TO TAKE.
I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S A REASONABLE WAY TO DO IT.
I THINK MR. CHAIRMAN, THE MOTION IS ON THE FLOOR.
UH, THE SECURITY HAD TALKED ABOUT, UM, IT WAS LAID ON THE TABLE.
IT WAS POSTPONED UNTIL, UM, DECEMBER.
AND SO, UH, SHOULD BE ON THE AGENDA TO DEAL WITH BECAUSE, UM, IT WAS POSTPONED SPECIFICALLY FOR THAT DATE.
AND AT THAT TIME, UM, WHEN THAT MOTION IS PRESENTED, UH, BECAUSE EMOTIONAL WAS ALREADY MADE, IF I'M NOT MISTAKEN AND SECONDED, AND THEN MOTION TO POSTPONED FOR THE PARTICULAR DATE SO THAT MOTION'S ALREADY ON THE TABLE, UM, TO MOVE FORWARD, AND THEN WE CAN VOTE IT UP OR DOWN AT THAT TIME.
AND AT THE SAME TIME, UH, MAYBE AMEND IT EVEN THERE FOR DEVELOPMENT OF A COMMITTEE TO STUDY THE SHORT TERM AND LONG TERM REVENUES THAT I, I WOULD SUPPORT THAT.
THAT, UH, MR. CUNNINGHAM HAD HIS HAND BRACE.
OH, SORRY, MR. MR. CUNNINGHAM.
YEAH, I, I DIDN'T MEAN TO CUT YOU OFF, I WAS JUST WILLING TO MAKE THE MOTION AND SEND IT BACK TO COUNSEL.
UM, AND A FEW, MR. MCKEN, BEFORE WE, UM, EVEN GO FOR A MOTION OR SECOND TO GIVE THE EXACT SAME UPDATE THAT YOU GAVE AT THE BEGINNING OF THIS, I THINK THAT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE TO GET THAT INFORMATION OUT QUICKLY TO EVERYONE.
UH, MS. KEVIN, WE GOOD WITH, UH, THIS GOING BACK WITHOUT A RECOMMENDATION FOR ACTION OTHER THAN TO CONSIDER THE NEW INFORMATION THAT WE'RE, UH, NOW PRIVY TO? I BELIEVE SO.
SO THEN, UH, I'LL HAVE A MOTION HERE THEN TO SEND THAT, UH, I NEED A MOTION HERE TO SEND THAT BACK TO COUNSEL FOR THEIR, MAKE THAT MOTION, MR. CHAIRMAN FOR THEM TO DISPOSE OF IS WITH THE NEW INFORMATION THAT WE HAVE.
SO MR. CUNNINGHAM'S MADE THAT MOTION.
WE'LL MOVE THAT FORWARD WITHOUT OBJECTION.
ARE THERE ANY OBJECTIONS? WE HAVE NO OBJECTIONS.
THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH FOR THIS LIVELY DISCUSSION ON A VERY IMPORTANT MATTER.
UM, WE HAVE A NEW ITEM ON THE AGENDA TODAY, WHICH WILL BE ITEM NUMBER EIGHT, WHICH IS A MOTION, UM, THAT I WILL NEED TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THE APPOINTMENT OF MARILYN HARRIS AS THE BEAUFORT COUNTY COUNCIL REPRESENTATIVE ON THE BEAUFORT HOUSING AUTHORITY BOARD.
MAY I HAVE THAT MOTION? SO, OH, SO MOVED.
[00:50:01]
THANK YOU, UH, ALICE.SO WE HAVE A MOTION AND A SECOND DURING DISCUSSION, HEARING NO DISCUSSION.
WE'LL MOVE THIS FORWARD WITHOUT OBJECTION.
ARE THERE ANY OBJECTIONS? HEARING NO OBJECTIONS? THIS MOTION CARRIES.
WE ARE NOW AT THE END OF THIS, UH, SESSION, UH, WHICH I HAVE TO SAY I'VE ENJOYED VERY MUCH.
IT WAS GOOD DISCUSSION AS I SAID ON AN IMPORTANT TOPIC.
AND WE'LL LOOK FORWARD TO BRINGING THIS UP AGAIN ON DECEMBER 12TH FOR THE FULL COUNSEL TO CONSIDER.
IS THERE ANYBODY WHO HAS ANYTHING ELSE, UH, WITH REGARD TO, UH, TODAY? OKAY, WELL LET ME JUST END THEN BY SAYING THIS IS THE LAST MEETING, UH, SADLY OF THE COMMUNITY SERVICES AND PUBLIC SAFETY COMMITTEE FOR THE CALENDAR YEAR.
AND AT THE END OF THIS CALENDAR YEAR OR SHORTLY THEREAFTER, COLONEL PHIL FOOT WILL BE LEAVING US TO GO ON TO, UH, PRIVATE PRACTICE, UH, UH, BEING A PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR SOMEWHERE IN MIAMI, I THINK MIAMI ICE, I THINK THEY'RE GONNA CALL IT.
I'VE KNOWN THAT COLONEL FOOT, UH, AS MOST OF YOU KNOW, FOR HALF OUR ADULT LIVES.
AND, UH, WE BOTH COME FROM THE SAME AREA.
UH, IN FACT, THE FIRST TIME I MET HIM AND HEARD WHERE HE WAS FROM, I SAID, HOW YOU DOING? AND HE KNEW EXACTLY WHAT I WAS TALKING ABOUT CUZ HE SAID IN RESPONSE, I'M DOING, HOW ARE YOU DOING
SO, UH, I'LL TRACK YOU DOWN THOUGH, YOU CAN COUNT ON THAT.
I'LL GET THAT CELL PHONE SOMEWHERE.
SO OUR BEST WISHES TO YOU AS YOU WRAP THIS UP.
YOU'VE BEEN AAL WAR HERE, YOU'VE DONE GREAT WORK FOR ALL OF US IN A NUMBER OF POSITIONS, AND I WANT YOU TO KNOW HOW MUCH WE APPRECIATE THAT.
AND I'M SURE THAT AT FULL COUNSEL, YOU'LL HEAR ME SAY THAT ALL AGAIN.
BUT I DID WANT TO SAY HERE, UH, IN THIS GROUP WHERE YOU COME FAITHFULLY, UH, TO HELP US UNDERSTAND ALL OF THE ISSUES IMPORTANT IN YOUR PARTICULAR SPHERE OF RESPONSIBILITY.
SO THANK YOU VERY MUCH, COLONEL.
OKAY, I THINK WE'RE DONE HERE AND IT'S NOT EVEN THREE O'CLOCK.