Sep 07, 2022 Town of Bluffton Historic Preservation Commission

AJOUR THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION WILL NOT HEAR NEW ITEMS AFTER NINE 30, UNLESS AUTHORIZED BY MAJORITY VOTE AS THE COMMISSION MEMBERS PRESENT ITEMS, WHICH HAVE NOT BEEN HEARD BEFORE NINE 30 MAY BE CONTINUED TO THE NEXT MEETING, REGULAR MEETING OR A SPECIAL MEETING, UM, AS DETERMINED BY THE COMMISSION MEMBERS NOTICE REGARDING

UH, NOTICE REGARDING

[III. NOTICE REGARDING ADJOURNMENT]

[IV. NOTICE REGARDING PUBLIC COMMENTS*]

PUBLIC COMMENTS, EVERY MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC WHO'S RECOGNIZED TO SPEAK SHALL ADDRESS THE CHAIRMAN.

AND IN SPEAKING, AVOID DISRESPECT TO COMMISSION, STAFF, OR OTHER MEMBERS OF THE MEETING, STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS AND SPEAK.

WHEN SPEAKING FOR THE RECORD COMMENTS ARE LIMITED THREE MINUTES.

DO WE HAVE ANY, UM, PUBLIC COMMENTS? WE DO NOT CHAIRMAN JUST FOR THE RECORD.

JEFF HAS JOINED US.

SO WE NOW HAVE A FULL COMMISSION.

WE DO HAVE A FULL COMMISSION.

ADOPTION OF MINUTES, MINUTES AS AUGUST 3RD.

ADOPTION OF THE AGENDA

[V. ADOPTION OF THE AGENDA]

IS PRESENTED.

CAN I GET A MOTION? I MOTION TO ADOPT THE AGENDA.

SECOND, SECOND.

AND, UM, VOTE ON THAT.

ANY DISCUSSION LOOKS LIKE WE HAVE THE AGENDA ALL IN FAVOR.

AYE.

WHAT WAS THAT? WE HAVE UNANIMOUS ON THAT

[VI. ADOPTION OF MINUTES]

DID WE HAVE ANYONE THAT DID NOT ATTEND THAT MEETING? SO WE ALL HAVE THE RIGHT TO VOTE, CORRECT? I BELIEVE THAT'S CORRECT.

SO WE HAVE THE ADOPTION OF MINUTES FOR THE AUGUST 3RD, 2020 MINUTES.

CAN I GET A MOTION? I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO ADOPT TO THE MINUTES FOR AUGUST 3RD MEETING.

CAN I GET A SECOND? YOU JUST HAVE A SECOND, UH, ANY DISCUSSION, IF NOT ALL IN FAVOR, I, I LOOKS LIKE THAT WAS UNANIMOUS.

UM, AGAIN, GOING BACK PUBLIC COMMENTS.

I KNOW, I ALWAYS ASK THAT BECAUSE WHEN WE TALK ABOUT PUBLIC COMMENTS, BUT THERE ARE NO PUBLIC COMMENTS.

BUSINESS AND I BELIEVE WE HAVE THREE ITEMS TODAY TO PRESENT.

AND THERE'S NO OLD BUSINESS.

SO IT LOOKS LIKE WE HAVE NEW

[IX. 1. Certificate of Appropriateness: A request by William Court of Court Atkins Architects, LLC, on behalf of the owners, Jeffrey and Leslie Crook for approval of a Certificate of Appropriateness - HD to allow the construction of a new 2.5-story Single Family Residential structure of approximately 4,866 SF with attached Carriage House 1,135 SF to be located at 6 Shell Rake Street, identified as Lot 31 in the Tabby Roads Development, in the Old Town Bluffton Historic District and zoned Neighborhood General-HD. (COFA-11-21-016079) (Staff - Katie Peterson)]

AND I BELIEVE KATIE, YOU ARE UP FIRST GOOD EVENING TONIGHT.

THE FIRST APPLICATION THAT WE HAVE BEFORE US TONIGHT, CAN YOU GUYS HEAR ME? IT'S GOING FUNNY TONIGHT IN MY EARS.

UM, SO TONIGHT THE FIRST APPLICATION WE HAVE BEFORE US IS FOR SH SIX SHELL BREAK STREET, WHICH IS IN THE TABBY ROADS DEVELOPMENT.

IT IS A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS TO A, OF APPROPRIATENESS TO ALLOW THE STATE CONSTRUCTION OF A NEW TWO AND A HALF STORY, SINGLE FAMILY, RESIDENTIAL STRUCTURE OF APPROXIMATELY 4,866 SQUARE FEET WITH AN ATTACHED CARRIAGE HOUSE OF APPROXIMATELY 1,135 SQUARE FEET TO BE LOCATED AT SIX SHELL RAKE, WHICH IS IDENTIFIED AS LOT 31 IN THE TABBY ROADS DEVELOPMENT.

IT IS LOCATED IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD GENERAL HD ZONING DISTRICT.

THIS IS THE SITE PLAN.

SO AS YOU CAN SEE, SHELL RIG RUNS ALONG THE FRONT, WHICH IS THE RIGHT SIDE OF YOUR SCREEN HERE.

AND THEN THERE ARE TWO LANES.

SO ONE IS BARN CUT, BARNACLE CUT LANE, UM, AT THE TOP OF THE SCREEN AND THEN MUD BAR LANE IS WHERE IT GETS IT IT'S ACCESS, WHICH IS, UM, ON THE BOTTOM OF YOUR SCREEN HERE, THIS IS A VISUAL OF HOW THE HOUSE WILL BE PLACED ON THE LOT.

UM, THERE IS A QUESTION OF THE, UM, PARALLEL TO THE STREET.

AND SO THEY GAVE US THIS EXHIBIT AS PART OF THEIR SUBMITTAL, UM, SUBMITTAL MATERIALS, JUST SO THAT YOU HAD A BETTER IDEA OF WHAT THAT WAS GOING TO LOOK LIKE WHEN IT WAS BEING PLACED ON THE LOT.

UM, SO AS YOU CAN SEE, THIS IS THE SECOND LOT IN, FROM B ROAD, WHICH IS THE VERY, VERY TOP OF YOUR STREET.

I MAY HAVE CRO IT A LITTLE CLOSE.

I APOLOGIZE, BUT THIS IS B ROAD.

AND THEN, UM, THIS IS WHERE A FUTURE BUILDING WOULD SIT BECAUSE THAT STRUCTURE WILL HAVE FRONTAGE ON B ROAD THERE.

SO, UM, THEY WANTED YOU TO JUST YOU TO SEE THE STEPPING OF THAT RATHER THAN IF THEY SUBMIT THAT BECAUSE THEY OWN BOTH PROPERTIES AND THEY'RE DOING BOTH PROJECTS OR WHAT, NO, THAT WOULD BE FUTURE DEVELOPMENT, BUT JUST HOW A BUILDING MAY SIT ON THAT BECAUSE IT DOES HAVE FRONTAGE ON BO ROAD, WHICH IS THE LARGER ROAD THERE.

FOR THE CARRIAGE HOUSE, AS WELL AS THE PRIMARY STRUCTURE.

UM, THE PROPERTIES IN THIS DEVELOPMENT, WHICH HAVE FRONTAGE ON BO ROAD DO HAVE TO FACE BOONE ROAD.

SO THEY HAVE TABBY ROADS, UM, ADDRESSES SOMETIMES.

SO THERE'S SOME THAT ARE ON BADER'S LANE BARN CUT THOSE ADDRESSES, BUT THEIR FRONT IS BRUN ROAD.

SO, UM, ALL THE ONES THAT ARE FROM BE CHURCH OVER ALL HAVE THAT SAME FRONTAGE.

SO THE GOOD EXAMPLE IS THE BLUE HOUSE THAT CAME THROUGH

[00:05:01]

A FEW YEARS AGO.

UM, THAT'S WHAT THEY WILL ALL LOOK LIKE WHEN THEY COME TO FRONTING THAT STREET.

THIS IS THE FIRST FLOOR PLAN.

SO, UM, YOU AGAIN HAVE, UM, SHELL RAKE ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF YOUR SCREEN.

YOU CAN SEE THE PORCH HERE.

THERE IS A POOL AT THE BACK OF THE HOUSE HERE.

UM, THAT'S NOT A STRUCTURE.

SO JUST KEEP THAT IN MIND.

IT'S VERY HARD TO SEE ON THE SCREEN.

I KNOW, I'M SORRY.

UM, BUT THEN THIS IS THE PRIMARY STRUCTURE WITH THE CARRIAGE HOUSE THAT'S ATTACHED AS WELL AS THE GARDEN STRUCTURE THAT IS OFF TO THE, THE LEFT THERE, THE SECOND FLOOR PLAN.

SO THERE IS HEATED SPACE IN THE FULL, UM, PRIMARY AND CARRIAGE HOUSE.

THERE IS NO SECOND STORY TO THAT GARDEN STRUCTURE BECAUSE GARDEN STRUCTURES CANNOT HAVE SECOND STORIES.

SO, UM, THAT IS A SECOND STRUCTURE.

AND THEN THIS IS THE ATTIC SPACE, WHICH HAS A HEAD HEIGHT, A POSSIBLE HEAD HEIGHT OF FIVE FEET OR MORE WHEN AN AREA HAS A POSSIBLE HEAD HEIGHT OF FIVE FEET OR MORE, IT NEEDS TO BE COUNTED IN ORDER TO ENSURE THAT, UM, IT IS NOT COUNTING AS A HALF STORY OR A WHOLE STORY WHERE IT CAN'T IN THIS CASE, IT CAN BE COUNTED AS THAT HALF STORY.

IT IS BETWEEN 30 AND 70% OF THE STORY BENEATH IT.

SO IT MEETS THE, THE CRITERIA FOR A HALF STORY ABOVE THE SECOND FLOOR.

AND THEN THIS IS THE ROOF PLAN, JUST SO THAT YOU'VE GOT A BETTER IDEA OF HOW THOSE PIECES ARE BEING CONNECTED.

UM, SO AGAIN, PRIMARY STRUCTURE HERE, CARRIAGE HOUSE OVER HERE, GARDEN STRUCTURE ON THE LEFT SIDE OF THE SCREEN THERE.

SO THIS IS THE FRONT ELEVATION.

THIS IS THE SIDE THAT FACES SHELL RAKE HARD, HARD TO SAY SHELL RAKE IN TABBY SHELL ROADS, TABBY SHELL ALTOGETHER.

UM, SO YOU CAN SEE IT HAS THE DOUBLE FULL FRONT PORCH HERE WITH THE SIDE EDITION.

YOU CAN SEE JUST A BIT OF THE CARRIAGE HOUSE BEHIND IT HERE, AS WELL AS THE, UM, THE FIRST FLOOR OF THAT CARRIAGE HOUSE PUT POST OUT HERE.

YOU CANNOT SEE THE GARDEN STRUCTURE FROM THE FRONT ELEVATION BECAUSE IT IS SET BACK BEHIND THE, UM, WHERE THE, THE CARRIAGE HOUSE IS.

THIS IS THE REAR ELEVATION.

SO YOU HAVE THE, UM, GARDEN STRUCTURE HERE.

THIS PORTION HERE IS YOUR CARRIAGE HOUSE.

AND THEN BEHIND IT, YOU CAN SEE THAT THEY HAVE PROVIDED A SECTION SO THAT YOU CAN KIND OF SEE WHAT'S GOING ON.

UM, AS YOU CUT THROUGH THE HOUSE, BECAUSE WITH THE WAY THESE BUILDINGS ARE STACKED, IT, YOU CAN'T SEE THEM ALL FROM ONE, ONE PERSPECTIVE.

SO, UM, AGAIN, GARDEN STRUCTURE, CARRIAGE HOUSE, PRIMARY STRUCTURE.

THIS SHOWS JUST A SECTION THROUGH, UM, PART OF THE MAIN STRUCTURE, BUT THEY ALSO HAVE PROVIDED ONE THROUGH THE SPLIT OF THE CARRIAGE HOUSE AND THE, UM, THE ENCLOSED BREEZEWAY HERE.

SO YOU CAN SEE WHAT IS BEHIND THE PORCHES HERE.

AND THEN THEY'VE ALSO PROVIDED A CUT THROUGH THE, UM, UNCONDITIONAL BREEZEWAY, WHICH IS, OR UNENCLOSED BREEZEWAY, WHICH ATTACHES TO THE CARRIAGE HOUSE.

SO YOU'RE SEEING THE CARRIAGE HOUSE IN THE BOTTOM PICTURE HERE.

YOU'RE SEEING THE PRIMARY STRUCTURES ELEVATION HERE.

I PROBABLY EXPLAINED THAT POORLY, BUT, UM, I CAN GO BACK TO ALL OF THESE PICTURES ESSENTIALLY.

THEY'VE MADE SURE THAT WE CAN SEE EVERY ELEVATION AND ALL PORTIONS OF THE STRUCTURE WITH THESE SECTIONS.

THIS IS THE LEFT ELEVATION.

SO THIS IS WHAT YOU WILL SEE FROM BADER'S WAY, WHICH IS WHERE THEY GAIN ACCESS TO THE PROPERTY.

SO YOU HAVE THE, UM, THE SHELL RAKE RUNS ALONG THE RIGHT SIDE OF YOUR SCREEN.

UM, AND THEN THIS IS THE, UM, GARDEN STRUCTURE, CARRIAGE HOUSE, PRIMARY STRUCTURE HERE, AND THEN THE RIGHT ELEVATION.

SO THIS IS FROM BARNACLE CUT, WHICH IS THE OTHER SIDE.

SO, UM, THE GARAGE DOORS WOULD BE BE ON THE BACKSIDE OF THIS PORTION OF THE STRUCTURE RIGHT HERE.

AND THE POOL WOULD BE BEHIND THIS PIERCED BRICK WALL HERE FOR REFERENCE TO THE SITE PLAN.

SO YOU'VE GOT, UH, GARDEN STRUCTURE, CARRIAGE HOUSE, PRIMARY STRUCTURE HERE, AND THEN SUPPLEMENTAL FOR THE RIGHT, BECAUSE THERE IS THAT PURE BRICK WALL.

YOU CAN SEE, THERE ARE NO WITH OUR WINDOWS ON THE, UM, GARDEN STRUCTURE HERE IS THE SECTION THROUGH THE FULL CARRIAGE HOUSE PRIMARY STRUCTURE.

SO YOU CAN SEE THOSE GARAGE DOORS WHERE I WAS INDICATING THEM.

AND THEN THIS IS A SECTION BEHIND THE PIERCE BRICK WALL AND THROUGH THE MAIN MASS OF THAT PRIMARY STRUCTURE.

SO YOU CAN SEE THE WINDOWS WHICH WERE BEHIND THE PORCH IN HERE.

SO YOU'VE GOT THINGS THAT BLOCK IT, THINGS THAT NO LONGER BLOCK IT, I HAVE INCLUDED FOR YOU ALL OF THE SECTIONS AND DETAILS THAT THEY PROVIDED.

THEY HAVE FOUNDATION, UM, HERES WATER TABLES, UH, SOFFITS, JUST ABOUT EVERYTHING YOU CAN IMAGINE HERE, WHICH IS WONDERFUL.

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR GETTING ME ALL THE THINGS THAT I ASKED FOR IN THERE.

UM, THERE'S THE BRACKET DETAILING

[00:10:01]

THEY HAVE THE RAILING DETAIL, THE CORNER DETAIL, UM, WINDOW DETAILS HERE FOR THE, THE TRIM, BOTH ON, UM, WHERE THERE'S MASONRY AND WIND THERE IS, UM, HARDY SIDING.

SO THERE'S DETAILS FOR BOTH OF THOSE AS WELL AS THE CHIMNEY.

AND THEN WE HAVE THE WINDOW DETAIL AND THE PIERCED BRICK WALL, AS WELL AS THE SERVICE YARD DETAIL HERE.

SO YOU'VE GOT THE, UM, THE BRICK DETAIL AS WELL AS WHAT THOSE LOOK LIKE ON THE COLUMNS.

THERE, HERE ARE THE WINDOW DETAILS.

SO I PUT THE WINDOW SCHEDULE ON THE TOP RIGHT HERE, AND THEN A PICTURE OF THOSE WINDOWS DOWN BELOW.

SO THAT YOU'VE GOT THOSE, THE DOOR DETAILS.

I DID CROP THIS.

UM, NO, IT MAY COME AS A SHOCK TO YOU.

I DID SOME OF THIS CROP WORK ALL BY MYSELF.

IT'S NOT HOW THEY GAVE IT TO ME.

UM, BUT THIS IS THE WINDOWS AND DOORS.

SO I CUT THE DOORS RIGHT WHERE IT ENDED AT THE EXTERIOR DOORS BECAUSE THE INTERIOR DOORS, UM, THEY ARE INCLUDED IN YOUR PACKET, BUT IN ORDER TO BE ABLE TO READ THEM ON THE SCREEN, I LEFT IT.

SO IT WAS JUST THE EXTERIOR DOORS FOR YOU GUYS TONIGHT.

AND THEN, UM, THE, ALL OF THE DOOR IMAGES THAT THEY PROVIDED FOR US AS WELL.

THIS IS THE SQUARE FOOTAGE CALCULATIONS THAT THEY'VE PROVIDED US.

SO YOU'VE GOT THE FIRST FLOOR ON THE TOP HERE, THE SECOND FLOOR AS YOU MOVE DOWN.

AND THEN THE ATTIC, UM, SQUARE FOOTAGE THAT HAS THE HEAD HEIGHT OF FIVE FEET OR MORE, THEY'VE PUT THE CALCULATIONS THAT THEY HAVE OVER HERE.

AND THEN THEY PROVIDED US SOME BEAUTIFUL 3D RENDERING SO THAT YOU HAVE A BETTER IDEA OF HOW THIS WILL SIT ON THE SITE, UM, AND WHAT IT WILL LOOK LIKE.

NOT FLAT, THAT IS ALWAYS CHALLENGING.

SO AGAIN, YOU'VE GOT GARDEN STRUCTURE, CARRIAGE HOUSE, PRIMARY STRUCTURE, GARDEN CARRIAGE, PRIMARY PRIMARY, WHERE YOU CAN'T SEE EITHER OF THE CAR CARRIAGE HOUSE OR THE GARDEN STRUCTURE BECAUSE THEY ARE DIAGONALLY BEHIND THIS ONE.

AND THEN THIS ONE IS PRIMARY CARRIAGE, GARDEN, GARDEN, CARRIAGE PRIMARY.

AND, UM, I'M GONNA NOT DO THE LAST THREE FOR YOU.

THIS IS THE LANDSCAPE PLAN, OR THIS IS NOT THE LANDSCAPE PLAN, BUT THIS IS PORTION OF THE LANDSCAPE PLAN SUBMITTAL SET THAT HAS THE TREE REMOVAL FOR THE SITE, AS WELL AS THOSE TREES, WHICH ARE PROTECTED.

UM, THERE IS A PROTECTED TREE OR TWO DOWN IN THIS, THIS RIGHT HAND, OR I'M SORRY, LEFT HAND CORNER.

UM, THAT WAS A REQUIREMENT BY THE TABBY ROAD, H A R B.

SO THAT HAS BEEN INDICATED HERE IN THE BOTTOM CORNER.

THIS IS THE LANDSCAPE PLAN THAT SHOWS THE PLANTINGS.

UM, SO THERE ARE SOME LIVE OAKS THAT ARE BEING INSTALLED HERE, HERE, HERE, AND HERE.

UM, AS WELL AS THE EXISTING OFFSITE TREES AND THEN THE FOUNDATION PLANTINGS THAT RUN AROUND THE, UH, FOUNDATION OF THE STRUCTURE HERE.

AND THEN I PUT THE PLANT SCHEDULE IN HERE IN CASE YOU WOULD LIKE TO SEE IT BIGGER THAN IN YOUR PACKET.

I'M SORRY.

I'VE, I'VE, UH, REVIEWED IT.

IT IS , IT IS IN THE PACKET THAT YOU HAD.

UM, BUT ON THE SCREEN, IT GETS REALLY SMALL WHEN IT'S ON THE SAME SHEET AS THE FULL LANDSCAPE PLAN.

SO I TRY AND GET THEM AS BIG AS I CAN ON THE SCREEN FOR YOU ALL.

AND THEN THIS IS THE CANOPY COVERAGE DETAILS.

SO THIS HAS THE AREAS WHICH ARE, UM, ALL AREAS THAT ARE NOT COVERED BY ROOFTOPS.

SO IT'S THE 75% CANOPY COVERAGE, NOT INCLUDING ROOFTOPS.

AND YOU CAN SEE THAT IN THE HATCHED AREA HERE, HOW THAT MAP HAS BEEN BROKEN DOWN ON THE LEFT HAND SIDE HERE, AS THIS IS A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS APPLICATION, THE HPC REVIEWS, THE EIGHT CRITERIA, WHICH ARE SET FORTH IN SECTION 3 18, 3 OF OUR UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT ORDINANCE.

AND THEY HAVE THE, UM, AUTHORITY TO TAKE THE FOLLOWING ACTION.

THEY CAN APPROVE THE APPLICATION IS SUBMITTED BY THE APPLICANT, APPROVE THE APPLICATION WITH CONDITIONS OR DENY THE APPLICATION IS SUBMITTED BY THE APPLICANT.

UM, AFTER THEY HAVE, OF COURSE REVIEWED THOSE CRITERIA, TOWN STAFF HAVE FOUND THAT DUE TO THE CONDITIONS NOTED BELOW, UM, WE ARE RECOMMENDING DENIAL OF THE APPLICATION AS THE MAXIMUM FOOTPRINT EXCEEDS THE PERMITTED MAXIMUM FOOTPRINT FOR A STRUCTURE WITHIN THE NEIGHBORHOOD GENERAL HD ZONING DISTRICT.

UM, THERE ARE OTHER ITEMS AND I WILL GO THROUGH THOSE, BUT THAT IS THE ONE THAT IS THE, THE MAIN CONCERN OF THESE ITEMS. WOW, ARE WE LOOKING AT AS FAR AS SQUARE FOOTAGE REDUCTION? SO THE, THE PROPOSED PRIMARY STRUCTURE IS 4,866 SQUARE FEET.

IT IS SHOWN AS 4,865 IN THEIR CALCULATIONS.

UM, AND THEN THE CARPORT STRUCTURE IS APPROXIMATELY 954

[00:15:01]

SQUARE FEET.

THEY'VE GOT IT SHOWN AS 1,135.

SO IT IS A DIFFERENCE OF ABOUT 200 SQUARE FEET WHERE IT IS I, THAT IS A REALLY ROUGH ESTIMATE.

GUYS.

MY DETAILS ARE IN THE STAFFER REPORT HERE, BUT THOSE ARE FOR TWO DIFFERENT HUNDRED 81.

HAVE A MAGIC NUMBER ON THAT.

THE MAIN STRUCTURE IS, UH, OVER HOW MUCH, A HUNDRED EIGHTY ONE, A HUNDRED EIGHTY ONES FOR THE MAIN STRUCTURE AND, UH, THE, UM, YES GARDEN.

SO, AND I HAVE A, AN EXAMPLE HERE OF HOW TO SHOW THAT TO YOU.

SO, OOPS, I KILLED IT.

SO THIS IS THE SQUARE FOOTAGE CALCULATIONS THAT THEY'VE PROVIDED TO US FOR THE FIRST AND SECOND FLOOR WHEN THERE IS AN ATTACHED CARRIAGE HOUSE, BECAUSE THERE IS, UM, A CARRIAGE HOUSE HAS BUILDING STANDARDS THAT ARE ASSOCIATED WITH IT.

UM, THE ARCHITECTURE NEEDS TO REFLECT THAT THERE IS A BREAK BETWEEN THE TWO STRUCTURES IN ORDER TO BE ABLE TO HAVE THAT A ATTACHED CARRIAGE HOUSE WITHIN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.

UM, THE MASS AND SCALE OF STRUCTURES, THE MASS OF THESE STRUCTURES IS ACTUALLY WHAT, UM, IS THE DENSITY FACTOR FOR LOTS WITHIN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.

WE DON'T HAVE A FLORY RATIO.

INSTEAD, WE HAVE THAT MAXIMUM FOOTPRINT AND MAXIMUM SQUARE FOOTAGE FOR A STRUCTURE WITH THIS ONE.

THE ARCHITECTURAL BREAK IS SHOWN HERE WITH THIS RED LINE.

SO IN THE OOPS IN THE, UM, 3D RENDERING HERE, YOU CAN KIND OF SEE HERE'S THE ARCHITECTURAL BREAK FOR THAT CARRIAGE HOUSE, WHICH IS WHERE THAT SQUARE FOOTAGE SQUARE FOOTAGE WOULD BE CALCULATED BY AND IN THE CALCULATIONS IT'S BEING SHOWN AS THE PORTION OF THE ENCLOSED BREEZEWAY, BUT IT'S NOT EXACTLY A BREEZEWAY BECAUSE IT IS LIVABLE SPACE IN THERE.

SO IT'S, UM, THE, UM, REAR EDITION OF THE STRUCTURE.

SO THIS PORTION HERE IS BEING COUNTED IN YELLOW ON THE FIRST FLOOR, AND THEN IT, IT JUMPS OVER TO FOLLOW THE ARCHITECTURAL BREAK AND THE STRUCTURE, AND THEY'VE COUNTED THE SECOND FLOOR AS JUST THIS PORTION HERE.

SO THE CARRIAGE HOUSE HAS NO ISSUE WITH THE SQUARE FOOTAGE.

HOWEVER, THE PRIMARY STRUCTURE, WHEN THIS PORTION IS REMOVED TO REFLECT, WHAT'S SHOWN ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE BUILDING, IT EXCEEDS THE FOOTPRINT.

AND SINCE THE DENSITY IS DERIVED BY THE SQUARE FOOTAGE AND THE MAXIMUM FOOTPRINT FOR A STRUCTURE IN THIS HISTORIC DISTRICT, IT EXCEEDS THAT WITH THE WAY THAT THE ARCHITECTURAL BREAK TAKES PLACE IN THE STRUCTURE.

SO THE QUESTION ON THAT IS, UM, COULD THE ARCHITECTURAL DESIGNATION OR, OR POINTS THAT YOU'RE SHOWING HERE BE ADJUSTED IF THE ARCHITECTURE WAS ADJUSTED TO REFLECT THAT IT TOOK UP.

SO THE WAY THAT IT CURRENTLY SITS, EITHER THIS PORTION HERE COULD BE THE CARRIAGE HOUSE, WHICH WOULD THEN EXCEED THE SQUARE FOOTAGE FOR A CARRIAGE HOUSE, OR THIS PORTION HERE IS CONSIDERED THE CARRIAGE HOUSE.

AND THEN THIS IS PART OF THE PRIMARY STRUCTURE, WHICH MEANS THE PRIMARY STRUCTURE IS OVER ON THE, THE SQUARE FOOTAGE.

SO EITHER THE ARCHITECTURE NEEDS TO BE REFLECTIVE OF WHAT THEY'RE COUNTING ON THE INSIDE AS IT, UM, BUT RIGHT NOW THE, THE OUTSIDE AND THE INSIDE ARE USING TWO DIFFERENT NUMBERS.

SO THEY'RE COUNTING THE, THE AREA ON THE SECOND FLOOR, THAT'S ABOVE WHAT THEY'RE COUNTING ON THE FIRST FLOOR AS CARRIAGE HOUSE, AS PRIMARY.

COULD WE, UH, GO THROUGH THESE ITEMS INDIVIDUALLY, IF THAT'S ALRIGHT, LIKE YOU HAVE.

UM, AND I GUESS THIS IS PROBABLY ONE OF THE BIGGEST ISSUES THAT WE HAVE ON THIS PROJECT.

IT LOOKS LIKE YES.

UM, WOULD IT BE APPROPRIATE TO POSSIBLY GET THE APPLICANT TO ADDRESS THE WAY THAT THEY'VE DESIGNATED THIS AND IF IT COULD BE ADJUSTED OR SOMETHING? ABSOLUTELY.

DO YOU WANT ME TO OPEN UP THE FLOOR TO THE APPLICANT NOW? OR WOULD YOU LIKE ME TO GO THROUGH THE, CREATE THE ITEMS AND THEN HAVE THEM SPEAK SECOND? UM, YEAH, I GUESS WE COULD GO THROUGH THE REST OF THE ITEMS. CAUSE I THINK THIS IS THE ONE THAT'S GONNA BE THE STICKLER ON THIS PROJECT.

THAT'S WHAT I'M JUST LOOKING AT.

IF I'M LOOKING THROUGH AND READING THROUGH THIS, SO WHY DON'T WE JUST GO THROUGH 'EM ALL AND THEN WE'LL, UH, ADDRESS THAT TO THE APPLICANT, UH, AFTERWARDS.

SO IF YOU'RE PREPARED TO DO THAT, THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL.

SO THE SECOND ITEM IS THAT THE STRUCTURE WOULD NEED TO BE REPOSITIONED TO BE PARALLEL TO THE FRONT OF THE LOT.

THIS IS SOMETHING TABBY ROADS IS NOTORIOUS FOR A CHALLENGE WITH THIS BECAUSE NONE OF THE LOT LINES ARE PARALLEL OR PERPENDICULAR.

I'M SORRY TO THIS THREE, WHICH THEY FACE WE'VE HAD MANY PRECEDENCES.

WE HAVE HAD SEVERAL AREAS WHERE THIS HAS BEEN SOMETHING, UM, THE DIAGRAM THAT WAS PRESENTED BY THE APPLICANT HAS DONE A, A LOT TO SHOW HOW THAT IS GOING TO BE STEPPED INSTEAD OF, UM, ANGLED AS IT WOULD BE ON ANOTHER STRUCTURE.

SO IT'S NOT IN THE MIDDLE OF A BLOCK.

THE THIRD ITEM IS THAT THE NUMBER OF WINDOWS AND THE PAIN PROPORTION VARIATION MUST BE REDUCED TO PROVIDE A BETTER PROPORTIONAL RELATIONSHIP WITH ONE ANOTHER.

UM, THERE ARE, I BELIEVE IT IS 10.

IT LOOKED LIKE THERE WAS A NUMBER OF THEM, BUT WE DON'T

[00:20:01]

DO WE? IT'S JUST SOMETHING THAT WE, WE DO NOT HAVE A NUMBER.

HOWEVER, THE TYPICAL NUMBER THAT HAS BEEN USED IN THE PAST HAS BEEN ABOUT FOUR.

THIS IS A BIT LARGER STRUCTURE THAN SOME OF THOSE.

AND SO, UM, ADDITIONAL WINDOWS SIZES BESIDES THAT COULD BE SOMETHING THAT'S PROPOSED, HOWEVER, IT SHOULD BE, UM, AS FEW AS POSSIBLE.

AND THE, UM, ADDENDUM TEXT THAT WE USE, WHICH IS THE TRADITIONAL CONSTRUCTION PATTERNS, WHICH IS REFERENCED IN SECTION 5, 15, 5 OF THE U IT NOTES THAT FOR A VERNACULAR, UM, BUILDING DESIGN, IT SHOULD BE THAT THE PAIN SIZE FROM THE SMALLEST TO THE LARGEST, NOT INCLUDING SQUARE PANS SHOULD BE NO MORE THAN 20% DIFFERENCE.

UM, AND SO THIS ONE IS IT'S SITTING AT ABOUT 22% OR SO.

AND THEN FOR CLASSICAL ARCHITECTURAL DESIGN, IT SHOULD BE ABOUT 12% VARIATION.

UM, SO SOMEWHERE IN BETWEEN THERE, IF IT IS A CLASSICAL DESIGN B12, THIS IS MORE OF A VER A VERNACULAR DESIGN.

SO IT WOULD BE CLOSER TO THAT 20%.

UM, BUT WITH 14 DIFFERENT WINDOW TYPES, 10 DIFFERENT PAIN PROPORTIONS, UM, THAT'S SOMETHING THAT SHOULD BE ADDRESSED.

GREAT.

THE NEXT IS THE DETERMINATION ON THE APPROPRIATENESS OF USE OF BORROW AS A SUBSTITUTE MATERIAL FOR THOSE LISTED IN THE, UM, IN THE UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT ORDINANCE.

SO BORROW, THERE ARE SEVERAL OF THESE BECAUSE THE NEXT ACTUALLY JUST ONE, UM, BECAUSE WE DO NOT HAVE MATERIAL, ACTUALLY MATERIAL REGULATIONS FOR WATER TABLES, UM, AND BELIEVE SOFFIT MATERIAL DOESN'T SPECIFICALLY PRECLUDED.

THESE ARE, BUT BO IS A MATERIAL AND JOSH IS, UM, SOMEBODY WHO CAN PROBABLY SPEAK TO BO BETTER THAN I, HOWEVER, THE UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT ORDINANCE FOR WALL MATERIAL, WHICH IS NOT TRIMED NECESSARILY HOWEVER, ALLOWS FOR THE USE OF GREEN OR RECYCLED MATERIALS WHENEVER POSSIBLE.

SO THAT'S FOR WALLS.

HOWEVER, THIS IS NOT A GREEN MATERIAL.

IT'S PROBABLY THE OPPOSITE OF GREEN BECAUSE IT IS USING ASH, UM, COAL ASH FROM THE MINING PROCESS.

AND IT IS A, UM, IT'S A ASH POLYMER BLEND THAT CREATES THIS.

UM, I'M GONNA JUST STRUGGLE THROUGH THIS GUYS.

IT'S GONNA BE GREAT.

SO IT'S, UM, IT IS NOT A TRUE WOOD MATERIAL.

IT IS NOT A HARDY MATERIAL, BUT IT IS RATHER A COMBINATION.

SO IT'S KIND OF A COMPOSITE MATERIAL.

JOSH, PLEASE, PLEASE FROM MYSELF.

WHEREAS HARDY IS A CEMENTITIOUS MATERIAL.

ORAL IS A COMPOSITE MATERIAL MADE OF FLY ASH, WHICH IS A BYPRODUCT OF GOLD BURNING POWER PLANTS MIXED IN ESSENCE WITH A, WITH AN EPOXY RESIN.

AND IT'S, IT'S COMPRESSED, IT'S MIXED TOGETHER AND IT'S COMPRESSED AND IT HAS TWO DIFFERENT TEXTURES.

ONE THAT IS A MORE ROUGH WOOD GRAIN.

THE OTHER ONE IS A VERY TIGHT GRAIN, UM, FROM A DISTANCE IT DOES FINISH EX MAKE IN MY OPINION, EXCEEDINGLY WELL, AND IS A GOOD SUBSTITUTE FOR POOR WOOD IN CHOOSING A COMPOSITE MATERIAL.

SO IT IS A GREEN MATERIAL CAUSE IT'S USING WASTE PRODUCT RECYCLED MATERIAL, PERHAPS, BUT IT IS, YOU KNOW, I GUESS I'M, IF IT'S USING COAL ASH UTILIZING COAL ASH FOR PURPOSES OF SOMETHING OTHER THAN PUTTING A DUMP.

CORRECT.

AND, UM, SO AS A WALL MATERIAL, THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE CONSIDERED A RECYCLED MATERIAL.

IT'S USING A BYPRODUCT OF SOMETHING ELSE THAT IS, IS DOING THIS.

UM, IT DOESN'T SPECIFICALLY, SO WHY DIDN'T YOU CONSIDER IT? UH ECO-FRIENDLY OR, YOU KNOW, TO ME IT RESONATES THAT, AND THAT'S JUST FINE.

UM, IT'S SO THE RAILINGS BALL ASTRAS, UM, TRIM PIECES, THINGS LIKE THAT DOES NOT SPECIFICALLY ALLOW FOR THE USE OF B OR FOR RECYCLED OR GREEN MATERIALS IN OUR UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT LANGUAGE.

HOWEVER, UM, THERE IS A SECTION OF THAT TRADITIONAL CONSTRUCTION PATTERNS, WHICH TALKS TO, UM, ALTERNATE MATERIALS AND WHEN THEY SHOULD BE PERMITTED, THEY TALKED ABOUT THE FIVE FOOT RULE.

AND WHETHER IT CAN BE, IF IT IS SOMETHING THAT IS OUT OF REACH, IT IS MORE LIKELY TO BE ABLE TO BE A MATERIAL THAT IS NOT SOMETHING THAT IS A SUBSTITUTE, UM, OR NOT SOMETHING THAT IS A STANDARD MATERIAL, NOT A WOOD, A METAL, SOMETHING VERY DURABLE TO TOUCH, OR IT NEEDS TO BE ABLE TO PASS THE TOUCH RULE IN THIS CASE, THE WAY THAT BO FEELS FEELS VERY SIMILAR TO A HARDY MATERIAL ALMOST, UM, WHERE IT IS A ALMOST CEMENT, SOME CEMENTITIOUS I'M MISSING A SYLLABLE MATERIAL, UM, AND STAFF HAS NO ISSUE WITH THE SUBSTITUTE OF THESE, BUT A DETERMINATION DOES NEED TO BE MADE BY YOU ALL.

IT HAS BEEN TESTED IN THE FIELD.

IT IS SOMETHING THAT IS, UM, IS BECOMING A BIT MORE OF A STANDARD THAN IT HAS BEEN IN THE PAST.

UM, JOSH'S I SPOKE TO HIM FOR A MOMENT ABOUT IT AND HE HAS USED IT ON MANY OF HIS PROJECTS.

IT DOESN'T CHIP WHEN

[00:25:01]

IT IS CUT, SO IT CAN BE CUT IN THE FIELD WITHOUT CREATING, UM, BREAK MARKS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

SO, UM, IT IS UP TO YOU ALL.

THERE IS A WHOLE BUNCH OF INFORMATION IN YOUR STAFF REPORT ABOUT THAT, BUT IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT STAFF IS OVERLY CONCERNED WITH, BUT IT DOES NEED TO BE A DETERMINATION FROM SOMEONE.

WELL, THIS IS THE FIRST TIME THIS IS PRESENTED TO US, I BELIEVE.

YES IT IS.

AND READING THE SPECIFICATIONS ON IT.

UM, THEN IT SEEMED GREEN TO ME.

I DON'T KNOW, I'M, IT'S A POST CONSUMER, UM, WASTE DIVERSION MATERIAL, UM, MORE SO YEAH, WASTE DIVERSION.

I, IN THE WORLD OF CONSTRUCTION MATERIALS, IT REALLY CAME ON THE SCENE IN OUR AREA FOR AT LEAST FOR ME FOR THE FIRST TIME, MAYBE FOUR TO FIVE YEARS AGO.

UM, SO I THINK A LOT OF OUR WORDING IN OUR, OUR REFERENCES TO MATERIALS PREDATE BO ARRIVING HERE AND BEING USED AS A DESIGN PRODUCT, I PERSONALLY, I THINK THAT IT HAS A CLEANER FINISHED TEXTURE THAN HARDY.

UM, THE HARDY MATERIAL THAT IS AVAILABLE IS NO GREATER IN DEPTH THAN FIVE 16, WHICH IS A LITTLE OVER A QUARTER OF AN INCH WOULD SIDING WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN PUT ON HISTORIC HOMES THAT THIN WITHOUT SOME TYPE OF SPECIALTY RABBIT.

SO THE ARTISAN HARDY, WHICH WAS FIVE, EIGHT OR A HALF INCH THICK IS NO LONGER AVAILABLE, UM, THAT YOU, THEY DON'T MAKE IT ANYMORE.

SO WE'RE GOING TO CONTINUE TO SEE IF ANYBODY WANTS A THICKER REVEAL OF A LAP SIDING.

AND THAT'S NOT, WHAT'S BEING NECESSARILY PROPOSED HERE FOR THAT USE FOR THE SIDING, BUT IF ANYBODY WANTS ANYTHING THICKER THAN THAT FIVE 16, WE'RE GOING TO SEE MORE WOOD PRODUCTS OR SUBSTITUTIONS OF NEWER COMPOSITE MATERIALS.

UM, THE NEXT ITEM IS THAT THE DOOR TABLE NEEDS TO BE UPDATED TO INCLUDE THE TYPE AND FINISH OF THE PROPOSED EXTERIOR DOORS.

CURRENTLY THEY SEE, THEY SAY TYPE AND MATERIAL TO BE PICKED BY GC SLASH OWNER.

UM, WE JUST NEED TO ENSURE THAT THOSE ARE MEETING THE WOOD METAL OR METAL CLOUD STANDARD THAT IS LISTED IN OUR UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT ORDINANCE.

THE SEVENTH IS THAT THE HORIZONTAL WINDOWS OR TRANSO WINDOWS WITHOUT A WINDOW BELOW THEM ON THE RIGHT ELEVATION MUST BE REVISED TO BE A PERMITTED CONFIGURATION SHOULDER.

SO THAT IS RIGHT HERE ON THIS ONE.

I KNOW THAT'S VERY TINY.

SO I'LL GO TO THE ACTUAL ELEVATION AND HERE ON THE RIGHT ELEVATION.

SO IT IS THIS SECTION HERE AND HERE.

THE EIGHTH ITEM IS THAT THERE ARE TWO DIFFERENT HARDY SIDINGS.

THE PRIMARY SIDING IS A SEVEN INCH REVEAL WITH A THREE INCH REVEAL PANEL.

THAT MUST BE REVISED TO ONLY HAVE A CHANGE AT AN EXTERIOR CORNER, SECTION 5 15, 6, AND OF OUR UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT ORDINANCE NOTES THAT, UH, MATERIAL CHANGES SHALL TAKE PLACE AT AN EXTERIOR CORNER.

SO THAT I'M SORRY, INTERIOR CORNER.

DID I WRITE EXTERIOR? I DID.

I'M SORRY.

THAT SHOULD SAY INTERIOR TALKING.

I WILL SHOW YOU IF I CAN EDIT THIS HERE.

IT'S OKAY.

IF THAT SHOULD SAY INTERIOR, I'VE FROZEN IT.

NOW HE SAYS IT CORRECTLY.

AND THEN THANK YOU.

UM, SO THAT IS ON THE SAME ELEVATION, WHICH IS RIGHT ELEVATION HERE.

THAT IS THIS SECTION RIGHT HERE WHERE IT HAS GOT A, UM, A HARDY PANEL PLANK LAP SIDING, THREE INCH REVEAL.

IT'S A, JUST A CHANGE FROM THE MATERIAL HERE.

YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE INSET PARTS.

IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT? TALK I'M I'M NOT FOLLOWING.

HOWEVER, THEY'RE NOT IN SET.

IT'S JUST A IT'S IT'S BEEN FRAMED OUT, BUT IT IS, IT'S THE SAME PLANE HERE.

SO THAT'S NOT A, LIKE A BUMP OUT IN THE STRUCTURE.

IT'S ON THE SAME HORIZONTAL PLANE.

THEY'RE JUST GOING FROM A DIFFERENT WIDTH TO A DIFFERENT, UH, YES.

DIFFERENTIATION.

AND EVERYTHING YOU JUST, EVERYBODY ELSE.

SO THE USE OF A, A CHANGE IN MATERIAL IN THE SAME ELEVATION OR A CLOSED SHUTTER ARE BOTH NOT SOMETHING THAT'S PERMITTED BY OUR UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT ORDINANCE.

THIS IS NOT A CLOSED SHUTTER.

IT IS A SIDING MATERIAL.

HOWEVER, UM, THE USE OF A CLOSED SHUTTER, ESPECIALLY WHEN THERE ARE NO OTHER SHUTTERS USED ON THE STRUCTURE, IT'S SOMETHING THAT'S NOT PERMITTED BY OUR UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT ORDINANCE.

SO IN THE SENSE ARCHITECTURAL, THAT'S GETTING AROUND THE CLOSED SHUT, BUT IT'S CREATING THE CLOSED SHUTTER LOOK, BUT IT'S NOT.

I MEAN, I'M JUST, THAT'S WHAT, THAT'S WHAT IT IS.

IT'S NOT THE BOOKSHELVES, NOT AN UNCOMMON DETAIL.

IT'S NOT AN UNCOMMON DETAIL.

UM, BUT I UNDERSTAND WHAT THE UEO SAYS

[00:30:01]

THE EIGHTH ITEM IS THAT THE, UM, MASS AND SCALE OF THE STRUCTURE EXCEEDS THAT, WHICH IS APPROPRIATE FOR THE PROPERTY.

THAT DOES GO BACK TO NUMBER ONE HERE THAT IT'S EXCEEDING THE MAXIMUM FOOTPRINT, THE STRUCTURE.

AND THEN THE 10TH ONE IS THAT A TRUE REMOVAL PERMIT FROM THE TOWN OF LEFTON IS REQUIRED AS THEY ARE REMOVING TREES THAT EXCEED THAT EIGHT INCHES IN DIAMETER AT BREAST HEIGHT.

THAT'S SO I HAVE, I AM HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS THAT YOU HAVE.

I KNOW THAT CORD ATKINS IS HERE TO, UM, OR SPECIFICALLY WILLIAM IS HERE TO ANSWER QUESTIONS THAT YOU HAVE AS LONG WITH HIS TEAM.

WHO'S REPRESENTING THE APPLICANT.

JAMES, I'D BE HAPPY TO, WE WANNA DISCUSS ANY ISSUES HERE BEFORE THE APPLICANT COMES.

WHAT'S JUST, UM, WE, WHAT IS THE MAXIMUM FOOTPRINT FOR THIS LOT IN THE CARRIAGE HOUSE ALSO? SO THE MAXIMUM FOOTPRINT, NOT INCLUDING PORCHES FOR A CENTER HALL HOUSE IS 2000 SQUARE FEET.

THAT'S WHAT I WAS GONNA ASK THIS CENTER HOUSE.

SO THE FOOTPRINT, YEAH, THE MAXIMUM IS, IS CENTER HOUSE.

SO THE FOOTPRINT IS 2000 SQUARE FOOT FEET.

WHAT IS THIS ONE? NOT INCLUDING PORCHES.

SO THE COVER SHEET LIST IS 1,999 SQUARE FEET.

HOWEVER, IT DOESN'T TAKE INTO ACCOUNT THE 181 SQUARE FEET THAT IS IN THE PRIMARY STRUCTURE, BUT BEING COUNTED TOWARDS THE CARRIAGE HOUSE FIRST FLOOR SQUARE FOOTAGE.

BUT DOES THAT MEAN IT'S OVER 2000? YES.

SO THE MAIN STRUCTURE FOOTPRINT IS FINE, BUT IT'S THE CONNECTOR PIECE THAT IS ALSO HEATED THAT IS PUTTING THEM OVER IT.

IT'S NOT HEATED.

IT'S ENCLOSED THOUGH.

AND SO THE WAY THAT OUR ORDINANCE IS YOU CAN HAVE A PRIMARY STRUCTURE THAT DOES NOT EXCEED 2000 SQUARE FEET IN FOOTPRINT, AND YOU CAN HAVE A CARRIAGE HOUSE THAT DOES NOT EXCEED 800 SQUARE FEET IN FOOTPRINT.

IF THEY ARE CONNECTED, THERE IS A BREAK BETWEEN THE TWO STRUCTURES, WHICH HAS TO BE RECOGNIZED IN ORDER TO ALLOW FOR A CONDUCTED CARRIAGE HOUSE TO A PRIMARY STRUCTURE.

UM, IN THIS CASE, THE ARCHITECTURAL FINISH OF THIS, IT WAS SCREENED IT'S NO, IT'S NOT SCREENED.

NO.

WHAT IF IT WAS SCREENED? IF IT WAS AN UNCONDITIONED UNENCLOSED BREEZEWAY, THEN IT WOULD BE, IT WOULD NOT COUNT TOWARDS THE FOOTPRINT OF EITHER STRUCTURE.

IT WOULD COUNT TOWARDS THE, THE OVERALL COVERAGE OF THE LOT, BUT NOT THE ENCLOSED SPACE BECAUSE IT WOULD NOT BE ENCLOSED SPACE.

ANYBODY ELSE? NOPE.

NO, NO, COME FORWARD.

PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME.

AND MY NAME IS WILLIAM COURT WITH COURT ATKINS GROUP.

THANK YOU, MR. CHAIRMAN AND MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE.

UM, KATIE DID AN EXCELLENT JOB OF, OF RECAPPING EVERYTHING WE'RE TRYING TO DO HERE.

UH, I TAKE ISSUE WITH ONE OR TWO OF THE COMMENTS, BUT IT'S NOT PERSONAL ISSUE.

IT'S JUST, I THINK WE SEE DIFFERENTLY ABOUT, UH, THE, THE MASSING OF THE ARCHITECTURE, UM, OF THE 10 STAFF FINDINGS, JUST IN AN EFFORT TO KIND OF HELP SPEED THINGS ALONG.

UM, I DON'T SEE, I DON'T THINK THERE WE HAVE ANY ISSUE WITH 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8 OR 10.

UM, IF, IF WE NEEDED TO CHANGE THINGS THAT YOU GUYS WOULD, WOULD BE MORE COMFORTABLE WITH, I, I DO NOT NOTE ANYWHERE, UH, NOR NOR DO I BELIEVE THAT THERE SHOULD BE A CONCERN ABOUT THE NUMBER OF WINDOW TYPES USED ON A PROJECT, ESPECIALLY ONE, UH, THAT HAS MULTIPLE STRUCTURES AND APPENDAGES.

UM, I WOULD HOPE WE DON'T GET INTO A SITUATION IN THIS TOWN WHERE WE'RE ONLY ALLOWED A CERTAIN NUMBER OF WINDOW TYPES, BUT IF YOU WOULD LIKE US TO REDUCE THE NUMBER OF THEM, WE COULD CERTAINLY DO THAT.

I, I, WE COULD ABSOLUTELY, UH, ACCOMMODATE THAT.

UH, I WILL ECHO JOSH, UH, QUICKLY, JUST, JUST FOR GENERAL PURPOSE.

WE USE BO NONSTOP AT THIS DAY AND AGE.

IT IS A GREAT PRODUCT.

UH, I THINK IF THE BOAL REPS CAME HERE, THEY WOULD TELL YOU HOW WONDERFULLY GREEN IT IS.

I THINK KATIE'S RIGHT TO BE A LITTLE SKEPTICAL.

LIKE IT'S, IT'S AS GOOD AS HARDY AS, I MEAN, LIKE WE'RE NOT TEARING TREES DOWN AND THERE IS POST-CONSUMER RECYCLED CONTENT IN THERE, BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY, IT LOOKS BETTER THAN HARDY TRIM.

IT PAINTS BETTER THAN HARDY TRIM.

THE FINISHED PRODUCT IS BETTER.

THE DIMENSIONAL THICKNESSES ARE BETTER.

IT'S A GREAT PRODUCT.

IT'S REALLY EXPENSIVE, BUT IT'S A GREAT PRODUCT.

IT SHOULD BE CONSIDERED, UH, IN MY

[00:35:01]

HUMBLE.

AND THIS WAS THE FIRST TIME I THINK IT'S BEEN PRESENTED TO US AND READING SPECS AND SOUNDING HEARING FROM OTHERS.

SOUNDS LIKE IT'S GOING TO BE APPEARING MORE AND MORE.

I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT.

SO, YOU KNOW, IF WE SET A PRECEDENT, WE SET A PRECEDENT AND THIS SOMETHING TO CONSIDER.

YEP.

SO WE WILL CERTAINLY CHANGE THAT MATERIAL.

IF YOU DECIDE YOU DON'T WANNA SET THAT PRECEDENT.

I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THAT, BUT, BUT I DO THINK IT'S A GREAT PRODUCT.

I'M JUST SHARING THAT INFORMATION.

AND I THINK WE JUST, AS A BOARD, JUST NEED TO KIND OF LISTEN IN ON THAT AND UNDERSTAND THAT, YOU KNOW, POSSIBLY WHEN DO WE POSSIBLY STOP START? THE PRECEDENT IS, IS, IS SOMETHING, UH, IT'S SOMETHING THAT I KNOW KATIE HAD.

WE HAVE TALKED ABOUT IT IN THE PAST.

I KNOW THE STAFF HAS LOOKED INTO THIS MATERIAL.

UM, SO IT'S NOT NECESSARILY NEW TO THEM.

IT'S THE FIRST TIME IT'S BEEN BROUGHT BEFORE US, BUT WE'RE GONNA SEE MORE AND MORE MATERIALS AND SOME MATERIALS WILL NOT BE CONSIDERED AND OTHER MATERIALS SHOULD BE CONSIDERED.

AND I GUESS THE REASON THAT WE WROTE THE UDL AND THE WAY THAT WE DID IS WE DIDN'T LOOK, WE WERE, YOU KNOW, AT THAT TIME, UH, DIFFERENT PRODUCTS OTHER THAN WOOD WERE REALLY UGLY AND REALLY, UH, CHEAP.

AND WE WERE TRYING TO PREVENT THAT LOOK.

SO NOW IT SOUNDS LIKE THE TECHNOLOGY IS INCREASED IN BRINGING BETTER PRODUCTS.

AGREED.

UM, WITH RESPECT TO THE, UH, ITEM SEVEN, THE DOORS, UH, ALL OF THE DOORS WILL EITHER BE WOOD OR METAL CLAD, UH, WOOD DOORS.

SO WE WILL HAPPILY EDIT THE, THE SUBMITTAL FOR THAT.

UM, THE THREE INCH REVEAL PANELS, I MEAN, A DIFFERENT OPINION ON THE USE OF CLOSED SHUTTERS AS AN OPTION TO CREATE ARTICULATION.

I THINK IT CAN BE DONE VERY EFFECTIVELY AND THERE ARE SEVERAL PRECEDENTS FOR IT, BUT I KNOW THAT WE'RE NOT ALLOWED TO DO THAT.

OBVIOUSLY CREATING SOME SORT OF LURE DETAIL OR LOOK AND FEEL USING MIXTURES OF MATERIALS IS A WAY TO CREATE BALANCE ON AN ARCHITECTURAL ELEVATION, CREATING THE ARTICULATION THAT IS EXACTLY DESCRIBED WITHIN THE UDO.

UM, BUT IF WE DON'T WANT IT AND WE DON'T WANNA SEE IT, I'M HAPPY TO REMOVE IT.

LIKE I, I THINK IT WILL LEAVE A MORE BLANK FACADE THERE, BUT, UM, BASED, BASED ON THE DESIRE OF THE CLIENTS, IN TERMS OF THE INTERIOR USE OF THAT SPACE, WE'RE NOT GONNA PUT WINDOWS THERE.

SO THE BEST, YOU KNOW, SORT OF THING I CAN DO TO HELP CREATE BALANCE ON WHAT IS A REASONABLY PUBLIC STREET IS TO USE TRANSO SHAPED WINDOWS AND THEN CREATE SOME SORT OF ARTICULATION THAT HELPS TO TRICK THE EYE.

THAT THAT WAS OUR GOAL.

HAPPY TO REMOVE IT THOUGH, IF THE BOARD SEES FIT, UH, ANYONE HAVE A DISCUSSION ON THAT.

I'D LIKE TO HEAR INPUT, PLEASE.

SO FOR CLARIFICATION, MAYBE IF IT WAS NOT A DIFFERENT REVEAL INSTEAD OF SEVEN INCH, THREE INCH REVEAL, IF IT WASN'T A THREE INCH REVEAL, BUT IT WAS A, AN INSET PANEL WITH A SOLID BO, UM, PANEL WITH SAY A CODE MOLD OR SOMETHING AROUND IT, WOULD THAT BE ACCEPTABLE IS, OR IS IT JUST THE CHANGE IN FINISH? BUT YOU'RE JUST TALKING ABOUT THE DIFFERENCES IN SIZE FROM THREE TO FIVE OR WHATEVER, THREE TO SIX, WHATEVER IT WAS.

RIGHT.

BUT WE HAD THIS CONVERSATION WITH STAFF.

I THINK KATIE WAS ACTUALLY OUT THAT DAY, BUT WE DID TALK ABOUT IT.

AND THE CONCERN WAS, CUZ MY RECOMMENDATION WAS, CAN WE JUST DO A SOLID PANEL, MUCH LIKE YOU'RE DESCRIBING.

I THINK THE CONCERN WAS THAT THAT MIGHT READ LIKE A SHUTTER AND THAT'S KIND OF WHERE I'M GOING WITH THAT.

LIKE I JUST, IF THAT WOULD BE ALLOWED OF THE TWO, IF THAT WOULD BE ALLOWED, I, I WOULD ARGUE THAT IT WOULD, FROM AN AESTHETIC STANDPOINT, HAVING THE, THE ILLUSION OF A SHUTTER TO ME WOULD BE MORE APPEALING THAN HAVING A BUNCH OF PANELING ON THE HOUSE.

SO IS THIS ON? YEAH, IT'S ON.

SO SHUTTERS CLOSED SHUTTERS ARE SPECIFICALLY PROHIBITED BY OUR ORDINANCE.

THAT WAS ONE OF THE, THE ARCHITECTURAL CHANGES THAT DID GO THROUGH TOWN COUNCIL.

UM, FAIRLY RECENTLY, I THINK IT'S LIKE MARCH, BUT DON'T QUOTE ME ON MARCH CUZ IT COULD HAVE BEEN THE NOVEMBER ISSUE OR THERE HAVE BEEN SEVERAL VERSIONS OF THIS.

UM, HOWEVER, SHUTTERS WHEN USED ON A STRUCTURE WOULD NEED TO BE APPLIED TO ALL WINDOWS, WHICH COULD ACCEPT THEM AND BE THE SIZE OF THE WINDOW THAT THEY'RE PUT ON OPERABLE MADE OF DURABLE WOOD AND HAVE APPROPRIATE HARDWARE.

WE'RE JUST TRYING TO SOMETHING THAT LOOKS LIKE THAT, BUT DOESN'T MEET THOSE STANDARDS.

SO THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO ARCHITECTURE.

THE UIO DOES NOT SAY WE CAN'T DO SOMETHING THAT LOOKS LIKE CLOSED SHUT, OR JUST SAYS WE CAN'T USE SHAPES.

SO IN OTHER WORDS, GOING, LET'S GO BACK TO THAT ELEVATION AND JUST SUPPOSE YEAH, LET'S GO BACK AND JUST VISUALIZE IT.

THAT'S WHERE I KIND SORT OF SIDE STEP THAT.

AND THIS IS JUST FROM AN INTERPRETATION STANDPOINT, IS THERE A RESTRICTION AGAINST DOING A PANEL, WHATEVER SHAPE SOLID FINISHING THAT IS BESIDE A SEVEN INCH EXPOSURE ON THE SAME WALL PLANE.

[00:40:01]

AND WOULD YOU ALLOW IF THEY JUST USED THE SEVEN INCH HARD? I MEAN THAT'S NOT, CAUSE YOU'RE LOOKING AT A SUBSTANTIAL AMOUNT OF THESE AND THAT OTHER FACADE THAT YOU WAS THROUGH.

LET'S GO BACK TO ANOTHER SIDE.

YOU WANT A DIFFERENT ONE THAT THIS IS THE ONE IN QUESTION.

THIS IS THE ONE IN QUESTION I THOUGHT THERE WAS.

CAUSE THAT'S THE LOCATION OUTTA THE PICTURE.

LET'S JUST SAY THAT, THAT WE REQUIRE FULL SIZE WINDOWS THERE AND THOSE TWO ARE NO LONGER ON THE TABLE.

LET'S GO TO THAT.

ANOTHER ELEVATION THAT SHOWS ANOTHER ELEVATION THAT SHOWS THE LIKE SO HERE, BUT IN THIS CASE, THIS IS MORE OF A, A LOUVER DETAIL.

THIS IS ACTUALLY MEANT TO FEEL LIKE AN ENCLOSED PORCH.

IT'S A LITTLE DIFFERENT SCENARIO.

IT'S NOT MEANT TO FEEL LIKE A SHUTTER AT ALL, BUT ACTUALLY AN INFILL, BUT THIS IS IN THE SAME CATEGORY IN THE SAME PROBLEM.

SO IT IS NOT, IT'S NOT, IT IS NOT BECAUSE THIS ELEVATION, IT CHANGES AT AN INTERIOR CORNER.

SO MATERIAL CHANGE ON THE SAME PLANE IS NOT ACCEPTABLE.

MATERIAL CHANGE ON AN EXTERIOR CORNER IS NOT ACCEPTABLE, BUT CHANGE OF MATERIAL AT AN INTERIOR CORNER, IST ACCEPTABLE CONFIGURATION.

CAN I JUST ASK THE QUESTION AND BECAUSE THIS THERE'S PLENTY OF PRECEDENT, THE, THE GABLE ENDS UP HERE WOULD, WOULD TECHNICALLY BE ON THE SAME PLANE AND YET THERE ARE SEVERAL GREAT EXAMPLES OF GABLE AND THAT ARE COMPLETELY DIFFERENT MATERIALS.

TRUE.

I'M NOT, NOT SURE THAT THINGS, THAT KINDA A SHAKY LOOK OR THE RIGHT.

UM, NOT THAT AGAIN.

I KNOW IT'S NOT WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE, BUT I JUST GOOD FOR THOUGHT.

AND, AND I WAS JUST, FOR MY CLARIFICATION, THERE IS NO CONCERN WITH THE OTHER ELEVATION THAT WE JUST HAD UP THERE BECAUSE IT SEEMS IT WAS THESE TWO, THESE TWO RIGHT HERE, IT IS OFFSET.

IT'S A DIFFERENT THESE TWO RIGHT HERE, THESE TWO WINDOWS THAT WE'RE LOOKING IN RIGHT HERE.

CORRECT.

BUT IT'S THE SAME DETAIL THAT'S BEING UTILIZED ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE HOUSE.

THE ONLY PROBLEM HERE IS THAT IT'S BEING CONSIDERED A CLOSED SHUTTER OR DIFFERENT REVEAL IN THE SAME PLANE BECAUSE IT'S NOT INSET DOESN'T END IT CAUSE IT DOESN'T END AT A CORNER.

YEAH, CORRECT.

SO, SO CHANGING, CHANGING THE MATERIAL, IF THERE'S A STEP IN THE, IN THE PLANE OF THE BUILDING, WHICH THERE IS AT THE PORCH AND THERE IS AT THE REAR ION ON THE, THE LEFT SIDE STEPS.

AND SO THAT MATERIAL CHANGE DOES HAPPEN AT THAT INTERIOR CORNER WHERE IT DOES NOT MAKE THAT CHANGE ON THE RIGHT ELEVATION HERE.

THE PROBLEM, WHAT HAPPENS IN ISSUES LIKE THIS IS ONCE WE SET A PRECEDENT, YOU'VE USED PRECEDENCE IN THE PAST ACTUALLY IS IT BECOMES WHAT'S PEOPLE ARE USING.

SO WE'RE CONCERNED ABOUT SETTING A PRECEDENT ON SOMETHING LIKE THIS FOR OTHER PEOPLE TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF IT, NOT FOR THE ARCHITECTURAL PURPOSES, BUT JUST FOR OTHER PURPOSES.

AND MR. CHAIRMAN, THAT'S WHERE WE WALK THE FINE LINE AS THIS COMMISSION.

I, I COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND THAT.

AND I WOULD POINT TO THIS SPOT IN KNOWING THAT IT'S VISIBLE AND SAY, I WOULD UNDERSTAND IF YOU SAID WE'RE JUST NOT PREPARED TO MAKE THAT PRECEDENT IN THIS CASE.

AND WE WILL REMOVE THAT BECAUSE I'M NOT WHAT, WHAT ARE YOU DOING INSTEAD? JUST PUT A FLAT WALL.

JUST WE MAY, WE MAY BE STUCK WITH THAT.

UNFORTUNATELY.

COULD YOU PUT THE SEVEN INCH SIDING IN THERE THEN IT'S AT THE SAME TIME WE COULD.

I MEAN, UH, YOU COULD, YOU KNOW, I THINK LANDSCAPE WAS MENTIONED.

AND WE COULD PAINT IT SLIGHTLY DIFFERENTLY.

YOU COULD PAINT IT TECHNICALLY COMPLY.

YOU COULD PAINT IT A DIFFERENT COLOR BECAUSE WE DON'T, WE CAN'T TELL YOU WHAT TO PAINT THAT DEEP.

I'D BE HAPPY TO MAKE THAT ACCOMMODATION.

WELL, I WOULD STILL, I WOULD KIND OF ARGUE THEN THAT IT'S GOING BACK TO A SHUTTER LOOK AND THAT'S, I THINK THAT'S THE LARGER QUESTION HERE IS IT'S A CLOSED SHUTTER APPLICATION.

I'M NOT ARGUING AGAINST IT AS A GENERAL PRACTICE.

WE DO IT ALL THE TIME.

UH, BUT JUST THAT THE UDO IS STATING THAT CLOSED SHUTTERS OR THE APPEARANCE OF CLOSED SHUTTERS ARE NOT ALLOWED JUST BY CHANGING THE MATERIAL.

I DON'T THINK IT'S, I DON'T KNOW.

I DON'T THINK IT'S NEITHER HERE NOR THERE NOW YOU'RE NOT SIDING.

NOW IT'S A FIXED PANEL.

IT'S NOT A SHUTTER, BUT IF WE LEFT IT AS THE SAME SIDING, AS RIGHT NEXT TO IT, IT PROBABLY LOOKS LESS LIKE A SHUTTER AT THAT POINT THAN WHAT THIS IS.

I THINK IT LOOKS ODD THEN BECAUSE THEN YOU HAVE THE TRIM.

I'D RATHER JUST SEE THE TRANSOMS BY THEMSELVES AT THAT POINT.

AND THEN HAVE, I MEAN, WE COULD, WE COULD LET DIVINE GROW OFF THE WALL OR SOMETHING LIKE, YEAH.

I MEAN, LANDSCAPING COULD EASILY COVER THAT.

ANYONE ELSE? I GUESS I, I REALLY WOULD.

I DON'T HAVE AN ISSUE PERSONALLY, IF YOU DO IT, I DON'T WANNA PUT YOU GUYS IN A POSITION WHERE YOU HAVE TO MAKE PRECEDENT BASED ON THIS.

I MEAN, TO ME, THIS IS JUST .

I, I THINK THE ELEVATION EITHER THEY GO AWAY ENTIRELY INCLUDING THE TRANSOMS OR THEY BECOME WINDOWS.

[00:45:01]

I MEAN, YOU COULD GO MORE VERTICAL, UM, THERE TO KIND OF SOFTEN THAT AREA.

I KNOW IT'S ONLY A FIVE FOOT ZONE, BUT IT IS IMPORTANT.

YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE, UH, POINTS WHERE THIS IS DEVIATING A LITTLE BIT FROM THE UDO IS, AND I, I AGREE, UM, THAT IT CAN HERE IS THE FACT THAT YOU'RE PARALLEL WITH THIS.

I THINK BARNACLE CUT.

THAT'S MY QUESTION, ARCHITECTURALLY.

UM, WHICH I WOULD ARGUE WOULD MAKE IT WORK MORE OF A REASON TO HAVE FOR THESE, TO BE WINDOWS IF YOU'RE DOING, IF YOU'RE MAKING THIS PARALLEL AND THAT'S THE STREET THAT YOU'RE, UM, I GUESS, UH, SO TO ME, I MEAN IT, UH, I WOULD EITHER, I MEAN, FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH EITHER HAVE THE FULL WINDOWS THAT MATCH OR THEY JUST GO AWAY ENTIRELY, BUT I'M NOT SUPER STRONG ON THAT.

I I'M GONNA VOICE MY OPINION IS I WOULDN'T HAVE A PROBLEM WITH YOU UTILIZING THE SAME MATERIAL AND SOME OTHER COLOR.

I THINK IT WOULD.

I REALLY, MY IT'S NOT GONNA STICK OUT AND SAY, OOH, LOOK WHAT THEY DID.

I'M NOT SURE I WANT TO DESIGN ON THE FLY.

BUT, UM, AND I KNOW YOUR TIME IS WE GOT, WE GOT PEOPLE WAITING, BUT, UM, YOU ACKNOWLEDGE I'M, I'M, I'M AWARE THAT THERE IS A TWO STORY SPACE BEHIND THAT AND THERE IS A NEED FOR PRIVACY ON THIS WALL.

IT IS POSSIBLE WE COULD UTILIZE THIS STAIR WINDOW AS A HEIGHT THAT WE COULD REPLICATE AND MOVE ACROSS.

UM, I, AGAIN, I'M OKAY.

IF YOU GUYS SAY LET'S, DON'T DO THE, THE PHOTO THING.

WE'RE JUST NOT READY, LIKE RIGHT.

I WANTED TO START THIS OUT AND, AND LIKE MOST OF THESE, I THINK WE'RE FINE WITH, WE CAN GET WHERE WE NEED TO GET.

WE'VE GOT TWO BIG ONES THAT I JUST WANT TO TALK THROUGH WITH YOU GUYS.

AND YES.

SO, UM, EVERYONE GOOD.

LET'S SEE.

SOUNDS LIKE YOU'RE WILLING TO, BUT NOW YOU'RE PUTTING ANOTHER WINDOW ON THAT PLANE.

AND IS THAT GONNA LOOK RIGHT WHEN YOU HAVE TWO OF THOSE WINDOWS AND THEN TWO OF THE SMALLER WINDOWS AT THE SAME IT'S CONCEIVABLE WE COULD LOSE NOT ONLY THE SMALL TRANS AND WINDOWS, BUT THE PANELS BELOW AND USE THIS CENTRAL WINDOW AND, AND BASICALLY REPLICATE IT AT THE CENTER WINDOW HEIGHT, ACROSS CREATING A NICE BALANCE.

I'VE GOTTA BE CAREFUL CUZ I'VE GOT OWNERS HERE THAT ARE PROBABLY WONDERING WHAT THE HELL I'M DOING, BUT, BUT I DO THINK THAT THAT'S SOMETHING, AGAIN, EITHER THAT, OR WE COULD DO JUST THE TRANSOMS OR WE COULD REMOVE THEM ALL TOGETHER AND WE'LL, WE'LL GET YOU THERE AND EVERYONE WHOEVER'S GONNA MAKE THE EMOTION UNDERSTAND.

I, I PERSONALLY AM NOT AS OPPOSED TO HAVING CLOSED SHUTTERS WHEN THEY'RE DONE TASTEFULLY, GIVEN THE FACT THAT THIS HOUSE DOES NOT HAVE ANY SHUTTERS ANYWHERE ELSE.

RIGHT.

I THINK THAT IT, IT DOESN'T FAVOR THAT ARGUMENT IF IT HAD SHUTTERS EVERYWHERE AND WE, THESE WERE SHUT, I WOULD BE ALL FOR IT.

I WOULDN'T HAVE ANY ISSUE WHATSOEVER.

UM, RIGHT HERE JUST TO THE RIGHT.

THE OTHER THING THOUGH, THIS, THAT I WOULD NOTICE THE BALD LOUVER PANEL TO THE LEFT AND RIGHT SIDE OF THE FIREPLACE, UM, THE CHIMNEY OF THE SCREEN PORCH, IN ESSENCE, THAT'S JUST SHUTTER.

UM, I THINK I'VE GOT A HARDY PAINT, HARDY PLANK LAP SIDING WITH A THREE INCH REVEALED DETAIL BELOW THAT I JUST WOULD, I WOULD RAISE QUESTION TO THAT SPACED.

THIS IS SOMETHING THAT CAME BEFORE AS, NOT TOO LONG AGO, THE IDEA OF USING COMPOSITE SHUTTERS AND EVEN NEW HORIZON, WHICH CAME BEFORE THE, THE COMMITTEE AND WE SHOT DOWN.

UM, I WAS NOT A PROPONENT OF, OF NOT ALLOWING THAT BECAUSE I FEEL THAT IT'S MORE DIFFICULT TO GET GOOD SHUTTERS BUILT OUT OF.

UM, AND IF THESE WERE TO BE A NEW HORIZON QUALITY SHUTTER, WHICH WHAT'S SHOWN HERE AND NOTED HERE, THE BO LOUVER PANEL WITH THAT VERTICAL COMPONENT IN ESSENCE, IS IT, IT HAS TO BE AN INOPERABLE SHUTTER PANEL.

SO IT'S KIND OF FALLS UNDERNEATH THIS SAME CATEGORY OF WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT RIGHT NOW.

IT'D BE CLEAR THOUGH, THOSE WILL ACTUALLY BE, THOSE WILL BE LOUVERS WITH SCREEN BEHIND.

AND, AND I MEAN, I AGREE, LIKE I WOULD NOT LIKE TO USE WOOD, BUT THAT'S PROBABLY WHERE WE MAY ULTIMATELY HAVE TO FALL BACK TO IF WE CAN'T PULL OFF THAT DETAIL WITH YEAH.

I SEE THAT, YOU KNOW, BEING VETTED OUT FURTHER DOWN THE ROAD, UM, IN ADDITION TO THE CORAL LOUVER PANELS THAT ARE IN OTHER LOCATIONS, BUT THIS ONE WANTS TO BE A LITTLE BIT MORE DELICATE.

PANEL DETAIL IN THE WINDOWS THEMSELVES, JUST FROM A, I KNOW SHUTTER CLOSE SHUTTERS ARE NOT ALLOWED UNLESS THEY'RE AROUND THE ENTIRE HOUSE, BUT FROM THE, FOR THE SAKE OF TALKING THROUGH HOW IT WOULD'VE BEEN DONE, HISTORICALLY, SAY FOR INSTANCE, THERE WERE WINDOWS BELOW THAT TRANSOM, SOMEONE MOVED INTO THIS HISTORIC HOUSE AND THEY WANTED A TV IN THERE AND IT WOULD BE DARKER.

AND JUST TO ADD TO THAT, TO THAT POINT, I WOULDN'T MIND SEEING THAT SAME BORROW LOUVER

[00:50:01]

SO THEY WOULD CLOSE IT OFF.

THEY HAVE A BO OVER PANEL ON THE SCREEN PORCH AND THEY MATCH THAT DETAIL.

SO IT SEEMS, IT FEELS GENERATIONAL.

LIKE IT COULD HAVE HAPPENED JUST FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH.

I MEAN, IF, IF SOMEBODY'S DESIGNING OR CREATING THE MOTION, DOES EVERYONE UNDERSTAND HOW TO WORD THE MOTION CORRECTLY ON THIS? UM, WELL I THINK FOR THESE ITEMS, REALLY, IT DOES COME BACK DOWN TO STAFF RECOMMENDATION, UM, FOR THE MOTION, THESE STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS FOR THIS LOCATION DID NOT ALLOW IT.

SO IF THAT'S WHERE THIS IS TRACKING TO NOT ALLOW THOSE THREE INCH REVEALS UNDERNEATH THOSE TRANSAM WINDOWS, THEN THAT WOULD KICK IT BACK FOR ADDITIONAL DESIGN, WHICH I THINK IS WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.

WELL, YEAH.

OR, OR I WOULD JUST AGREE THAT WE WILL MODIFY THAT.

AND, AND THEN, BUT THAT WOULD HAVE TO BE PRESENTED TO THE STAFF RIGHT STAFF.

SO, SO FOR, FOR CLARITY, IF IT HELPS THE, UM, AS LONG AS YOU GUYS ARE OKAY WITH THE BO AND IF YOU'RE NOT, WE WOULD CHANGE THAT AT STAFF LEVEL, WHEREVER WE'RE USING IT.

UM, WE, WE WILL UPDATE THE WINDOW AND DOOR SCHEDULE.

UM, WE, WE CAN REMOVE THE THREE INCH HARDY PANEL WHEN IT IS BEING USED, NOT CHANGED AT AN EXTERIOR CORNER, AN INTERIOR CORNER.

UM, AND WE, WE CAN UPDATE THE WINDOWS, ALTHOUGH I WOULD PREFER NOT TO, BUT, BUT WE CAN REDUCE THE NUMBER OF WINDOWS IF YOU GUYS PREFER.

I THINK WE'RE, WE'RE DOWN TO KIND OF THE BIG TWO, UM, WHICH IS THE ORIENTATION OF THE LOT.

AND, AND I KNOW KATIE PUT UP SOMEWHERE IN HERE, SLIDE, UM, YOU KNOW, I DON'T THINK WE HAVE A PROBLEM, AS WE SAID, CAUSE WE'VE GOT SEVERAL OF, I CAN POINT OUT ALL THE ONES THAT THIS ONE IN PARTICULAR SEEMS RIGHT.

TREAT NEIGHBORHOOD.

WE KNOW THAT HAS BEEN ED TO US BEFORE.

SO I THINK NO ONE, ANYONE HERE HAVE AN ISSUE WITH THAT.

CAUSE I KNOW THAT WE'VE DONE THAT ALREADY.

SO IF WE COULD MOVE ON TO THE NEXT, SO TRYING TO FIND THE DETAIL KATIE BROUGHT HERE, THERE, THERE WE GO.

UM, SO WE'RE AT THE SQUARE FOOTAGE CONVERSATION AND, AND, AND TO, TO BE CLEAR, THIS HOUSE STARTED BIGGER AND WE'VE BEEN WORKING WITH, WITH TOWN STAFF TO, TO TRY TO COME UP WITH A SOLUTION.

AND I, I THOUGHT WE HAD ONE IN THE HYPHEN AND THERE IS A LOT OF, THERE'S A LOT OF GOOD STUFF IN THE UDO ABOUT SECONDARY STRUCTURES AND CONNECTING STRUCTURES AND TRYING TO MAKE A MAJOR MASS, A MAJOR MASS IN TRYING TO BREAK DOWN USING SIMPLE FORMS AND SIMPLE CONNECTIONS, UH, AND BASICALLY HYPHENS.

AND, AND THAT'S WHAT THIS IS.

SO I, I REALIZE WE, WE DON'T HAVE A HYPHEN TYPE AND WE DON'T HAVE SQUARE FOOTAGE THAT WE'RE ALLOWED TO ASSOCIATE TO A HYPHEN.

SO WE HAVE BEEN VERY CAREFUL TO MAKE SURE THAT THE SQUARE FOOTAGE ON THE FLOOR PLATE ITSELF, WHICH SEEMS TO BE THE MOST CRITICAL THAT THE MAIN HOUSE DOES NOT READ IN MY OPINION, MORE THAN 2000 SQUARE FEET.

UH, AND THAT THE CARRIAGE HOUSE DOES NOT READ MORE THAN 800 SQUARE FEET.

SO I DON'T THINK IT'S AN ISSUE OF THE ALLOWABLE SQUARE FOOTAGE ON THE FLOOR PLATE, UH, WHERE I THINK STAFF IS COMING BACK IS SAYING, WE'RE NOT SURE EXACTLY HOW YOU'RE ARTICULATING THIS.

AND, AND TO THE BEST OF MY KNOWLEDGE, THE WAY THAT I CAN DESCRIBE IT IS THAT WITH THE MAIN HOUSE, WE REALLY DO FEEL LIKE WE ARE STOPPING AT THE DOOR, RIGHT? IT IS A USE SITUATION.

THE MINUTE YOU WALK OUT INTO WHAT IS GARAGE SPACE, YOU'RE IN THE GARAGE, YOU'RE IN THE CARRIAGE HOUSE, THERE IS NO PERFECT SCIENCE.

AND I DON'T SEE ANYWHERE IN THE DOCUMENTATION WHERE IT SPECIFICALLY SAYS, YOU MUST USE A BUTTER KNIFE APPROACH TO HOW WE'RE GONNA CALCULATE THE SQUARE FOOTAGE.

SO YES, WE HAVE GONE OUT OF OUR WAY TO ARTICULATE THE FOOTPRINT AND THE EXTERIOR ELEVATION, BECAUSE THIS IS, AND AGAIN, THIS, WE WANTED TO PUT MOST OF THIS MASS ON THE, THE ALLEY ELEVATION.

SO THAT BARNACLE CUT TAKES LESS BRUNT OF THE SIZE OF THE FOOTPRINT.

UM, BUT WE'RE ARTICULATING BOTH SIDES.

WE ARE ARTICULATING THIS VERY CAREFULLY TO MAKE SURE IT READS LIKE A TWO CAR CARRIAGE HOUSE, UH, WITH A HYPHEN, A CONNECTOR WING THAT WOULD'VE BEEN GENERATIONAL AND ADDED OVER TIME, UM, AND LIGHTLY TOUCHING THE GROUND, BUT, BUT, AND, AND LOWER AND SCALE THAN EITHER

[00:55:01]

OF THE OTHER TWO.

UM, BUT IT DOES IT BE BECAUSE THERE IS NO REQUIREMENT FOR HOW WE USE THE PROGRAM.

THE SECOND FLOOR IS THE SECOND FLOOR.

THIS IS NOT A SITUATION WHERE WE HAVE A CARRIAGE HOUSE THAT IS TRULY A CARRIAGE SUITE.

UM, NOR DOES IT SAY WE HAVE TO USE IT FOR THAT PURPOSE, BUT WE HAVE THIS SQUARE FOOTAGE ON THE SECOND FLOOR.

WE WE'RE NOT OVER ON ANY MEANS.

OTHER THAN IF WE USE THIS SORT OF, WE HAVE TO SLICE WHERE RED IS, RIGHT? BECAUSE IN MY HUMBLE OPINION, WE'VE DONE A PRETTY GOOD JOB OF TRYING TO DISGUISE AND SHOW THE SMALLEST MAIN HOUSE WE POSSIBLY COULD AND THE SMALLEST APPEARANCE OF CARRIAGE HOUSE AS WE POSSIBLY COULD.

AND WE'RE USING THAT HYPHEN CONNECTOR MUCH THE SAME WAY YOU WOULD USE A HYPHEN IN A SITUATION WHERE YOU HAD A HISTORIC MAIN BUILDING AND DEPENDENCY WINGS AND HYPHENS THAT CONNECTED THEM OVER TIME.

SO I APPRECIATE THAT WE'RE STRUGGLING WITH THE SQUARE FOOTAGE, THE WAY WE'RE ADDING THE SQUARE FOOTAGE, BUT I CAN'T ASSURE YOU THAT WHEN WE ADD THEM ALL UP, WE STILL STAY WITHIN THE ALLOWANCES.

UNLESS YOU TELL ME WE HAVE TO SLICE STRAIGHT DOWN.

UM, AND I JUST DON'T SEE THAT BURIED IN THE UDO.

UH, AT LEAST NOT IN MY INTERPRETATION.

AND I KNOW THAT'S NOT STAFF'S INTERPRETATION, BUT I THINK YOU'VE GOT TO GIVE US, I HOPE YOU WILL GIVE US SOME LATITUDE BECAUSE WE SHOULD REALLY BE MORE CONCERNED ABOUT THE EXTERIOR ARTICULATION OF MASSING THAN WE SHOULD BE ABOUT THE EXACT SQUARE FOOTAGE I'M PLAYING THE GAME THE WAY I THINK UDA WANT UDO WANTS US TO PLAY IT.

BUT IT, THERE ARE SO MANY PRESCRIPTIVE RULES IN HERE THAT WE, I, I WOULD REALLY LIKE, I DON'T EVEN THINK THIS IS SETTING A PRECEDENT.

I THINK IT'S JUST, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE TO AGREE THAT THERE IS A LITTLE BIT OF A NEBULOUS ACCOUNT FOR WHERE, UM, THAT LINE IS DRAWN.

AND MY QUESTION, COULD YOU MAKE THAT A SCREEN PORCH? I, I COULD CUT THE WHOLE CENTER SECTION OF THAT OUT AND WOULDN'T, YOU WOULDN'T EVEN GET TO COUNT IT.

AND, AND I COULD PUT EVEN MORE STUFF ON THE SQUARE FOOT ON THE SECOND FLOOR.

LIKE WE COULD MAKE THE MASSING LOOK WORSE AND OH NO, NO.

MY QUESTION IS, IS THE BOTTOM, RIGHT? NO, THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING.

LIKE YOU COULD, YOU COULD TAKE THIS BLUE SECTION.

OOPS.

I CAN'T ZOOM IN.

CAN I, KATIE? NO, SIR.

YOU COULD TAKE THIS BLUE SECTION, WHICH IS IN QUESTION, THIS IS THE AREA WHERE, WHERE I THINK KATIE AND STAFF ABOUT 181 SQUARE FEET, IS THAT WE'RE JUST LOOKING AT 181 SQUARE FEET, IS THAT CORRECT? CORRECT.

I COULD TAKE 181 SQUARE FEET AND, AND UNCOVER IT.

AND YOU WOULD WALK ACROSS A SCREEN CLOSURE, BUT IT WOULD LOOK EXACTLY THE SAME.

I KNOW.

BUT HOW WOULD IT LOOK EXACTLY THE SAME? CAUSE WE, WE WOULD LEAVE THE SECOND FLOOR JUST LIKE IT IS.

I MEAN, THERE, THERE WOULD BE A BIT BEHIND THE SERVICE YARD WALL.

YOU WOULD SEE A LITTLE BIT OF WALL THAT, THAT WOULDN'T BE THERE.

BUT THE REALITY IS THE MASSING.

I MEAN, IF WE'RE CONCERNED ABOUT MASSING, UM, AND, AND, AND, AND LIKE THIS, THIS HAS GONE TO H A R B AT TABBY.

THEY ARE NOT CONCERNED ABOUT THE MASSING, THE PROPORTION OR THE SCALE.

UM, I KNOW THAT, THAT THEY'RE NOT THE ONLY ARBITER YOU GUYS GET THE FINAL SAY, BUT, UM, I THINK IT'S A SQUARE FOOTAGE MORE THAN THE MASSING, IN MY OPINION.

I DON'T KNOW.

THAT'S WHERE I THINK THE MASSING IS PRETTY YEAH.

FOR A BIGGER HOUSE.

IT IS.

AND IT LOOKS MASSIVE.

I THINK THE ARTICULATION OF IT IS NOT THE ISSUE.

IT'S, IT'S VERY WELL ARTICULATED BETWEEN THE DIFFERENT PIECES.

AND IT DOES FEEL LIKE THE MAIN HOUSE WAS ITS OWN PIECE.

THE CARRIAGE HOUSE WAS ITS OWN PIECE.

AND THEN IT WAS HYPHENATED OR CONNECTED AT SOME POINT.

BUT I THINK THE IDEA THAT THE SQUARE FOOTAGE WAS GETTING AFTER WAS THIS, THIS SCALE THAT IT ENDS UP RESULTING IN, WHICH WAS THE LAST COMMENT.

AND I THINK THE MORE IMPORTANT ONE, THE SQUARE FOOTAGE DOESN'T BOTHER ME, ALTHOUGH IT IS 5,000 SQUARE FEET IN OLD TOWN, BLUFFTON, BUT IT JUST, IT FEELS BIG FROM THE PERSPECTIVES FEELS REALLY LARGE ON THIS, ON SHELL RATE, PARTICULARLY.

IT'S A, IT'S A BIG LOT THOUGH.

I MEAN, IF WE LOOK AT RATIOS OF SQUARE FOOTAGE COMPARED TO LOT SIZE, THERE ARE CERTAINLY BIGGER COMPARABLES.

SO I, I DO, I MEAN, THIS WAS DISCUSSED WITH TAVI ROAD, SO I DON'T THINK THAT, AND I ALMOST WANT TO TAKE ISSUE WITH NINE.

I DON'T WANNA BE COMBATIVE ABOUT IT, BUT LIKE, WHY DO WE EVEN HAVE AN ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW BOARD OVER THERE? IF WE'RE GONNA SAY THAT, THAT THE SCALE AND PROPORTION ARE NOT, NOT FITTING FOR THE COMMUNITY.

I MEAN, THAT'S THE, I MEAN, I DO GET IT, BUT YEAH, THE, BUT LOOKING INTO THE WHOLE AREA THAT NOT JUST THAT COMMUNITY.

I THINK AT ARCHITECTURAL REVIEW, BOARD'S DIFFERENT THAN HISTORICAL PRESERVATION WAS LOOKING AT HISTORICAL PRECEDENCE OF SCALE.

THE MEETING IS THE REQUIREMENTS OF THAT ALLOW AS A CENTER.

SQUARE FOOTAGE AND ING SQUARE FOOTAGE AND THAT'S BEEN THE MASSING.

SO, WELL, I, I THINK WE ARE, I MEAN, I DO THINK WE ARE THE ONLY THING WE'RE NOT, UH, MEETING IS THAT 181 SQUARE FEET? AREN'T WE MEETING ALL THE OTHER REQUIREMENTS? WELL, THE LAST ONE'S ABOUT MASSING.

WELL, THERE'RE NINE OTHER ITEMS ON THE LIST, BUT NO, NO, THEY'RE NO, NO.

I'M TALKING IT'S BETWEEN

[01:00:01]

SO THE MASSING, HOW DO WE PUT OUR FINGER ON THE MASSING? IF WE MEET THE REQUIREMENTS OF SQUARE FOOTAGE AND WE HAVE A REVIEW BOARD THAT IS INDICATING THAT THEY ALSO BELIEVE IT'S CONSISTENT WITH THEIR OWN COMMUNITY, AGAIN, FOR THE RECORD, AS, AS I DO MOST MEETINGS, MY NAME'S RICHARDSON LA WITH FINGER BELT AND BROOK AND LA BRUCE I'M HILLHEAD AND I'M HERE SURVEYING ON BEHALF OF, UH, THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION.

SO ANY THE QUESTIONS YOU MAY HAVE I'M, I'M HERE TO ANSWER THE, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT MASSING BEFORE THE PAST AND HISTORIC DISTRICT.

AND IT'S, I'M ASKING IS INTENTIONALLY SUBJECTIVE UNDER THE UDO.

IT IS A DETERMINATION THAT'S TO BE MADE BASED ON PLACE AND LOCATION AND, UH, WHAT Y'ALL SEE PRESENTED FOR YOU.

SO MASSING IS INTENTIONALLY SUBJECTIVE UNDER THE UDO, UM, AS FAR AS SQUARE FOOTAGE REQUIREMENTS AND CONSIDERATIONS OF THE ARB, UH, CERTAINLY THAT CAN BE TAKEN INTO ACCOUNT WHEN DETERMINING WHETHER THE, THE MASS AND THE SCALE OF THE BUILDING, BUT IT IS NOT NECESSARILY DETERMINATIVE.

UH, AS YOU, AS Y'ALL KNOW, IN ARB AND COMMUNITY, ARB IS GOVERNED BY THEIR ARCHITECTURAL GUIDELINES, WHATEVER IT IS CONTRACTUALLY AGREED TO BETWEEN THE OWNERS, WHEN THEY HELP SET UP THAT COMMUNITY, UH, AND IS NOT, AGAIN, IT IS NOT DETERMINATIVE FOR WHAT NEEDS TO BE DECIDED HERE AT THE HPC.

Y'ALL HAVE YOUR OWN SET OF GUIDELINES TO FOLLOW, WHICH ARE THE, WHICH IS SET FORTH IN THE UDO.

SOME OF WHICH ARE OBJECTIVE, UH, CERTAIN THINGS YOU JUST CANNOT, YOU CANNOT DO IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT UNDER ARE ZONING LAWS.

UH, THERE ARE OTHER THINGS THAT ARE LEFT TO YOUR DISCRETION, AND THAT'S WHY WE HAVE YOU SEVEN UP HERE WHO ARE, UM, EXPERTS IN YOUR FIELDS AND HAVE A GOOD DEAL OF KNOWLEDGE AND EXPERIENCE IN EVALUATING THESE APPLICATIONS.

SO, UM, YOU'RE, YOU HAVE THE ABILITY TO MAKE THOSE DECISIONS AS TO MASSING AND SCALE.

AGAIN, THE WORD THAT YOU'VE USED IS OBJECTIVE, RIGHT? SO THAT THERE ARE CERTAIN, THERE ARE CERTAIN ITEMS THAT ARE, UM, YOU KNOW, JUST OBJECTIVE, UH, WHERE YOU HAVE THIS CAN HAPPEN OR THIS CAN'T.

UM, UH, FOR, FOR EXAMPLE, YOU CAN'T HAVE SHUTTERS ON 1, 1, 1, 1 PORTION OF YOUR BUILDING, BUT NOT ON SOME OTHER PORTION UNDER THE UDA REQUIREMENTS.

UH, AS FAR AS MASSING AND SCALE, WE DO NOT HAVE A NUMBER OR A PERCENTAGE OR, UH, YOU KNOW, JUST A FIXED TABLE WHERE YOU CAN SAY, OKAY, WELL, YOU'VE GONE, YOU'RE WITHIN ONE SQUARE FOOT OF WHAT'S ACCEPTABLE.

UH, SO THEN IT'S, THE MASS IS FINE, BUT WE DO HAVE SQUARE FOOTAGE SPELLED OUT IN THE UDO.

YOU DO HAVE SQUARE FOOTAGE SPELLED OUT, BUT WE DON'T HAVE THE OBJECTIVE IDEAL MATCH.

AND THOSE ARE DIFFERENT REQUIREMENTS.

I GUESS I WOULD ASK THEN SINCE MAYBE WE GET THIS RULING, IS, IS IT OBJECTIVELY SPELLED OUT WHERE THE DIVIDING LINE IS IN A HYPHEN SITUATION WITH CONNECTED STRUCTURES? IS IT OBJECTIVELY SPELLED OUT IN THE UDO, HOW YOU HAVE TO CALCULATE THAT SQUARE FOOTAGE? I THINK THAT IS A, THAT IS A QUESTION LINE NOW FOR THE HPC TO DETERMINE AND A QUESTION FOR STAFF TO ANSWER MY FAMILIARITY WITH UDO IS I, I DON'T PUT NEARLY AS MUCH TIME AS STAFF ON THAT.

THAT'S WHY, I GUESS I'M HERE TODAY.

PRESENTING IS BECAUSE I CAN'T FIND THAT.

AND, AND I DISAGREE WITH HOW KATIE'S CALCULATING IT.

SO WHEN YOU'RE SAYING YOU'RE CALCULATING IT DIFFERENTLY, IS THAT CORRECT? WELL, AND IF YOU CALCULATED IN YOUR MANNER, ARE YOU, I'M SAYING, IF I CALCULATE EVERYTHING IN PINK RIGHT HERE, IT'S 1999, EVERYTHING IN BLUE, I DON'T KNOW THE EXACT NUMBER, BUT IT WAS SEVEN SOMETHING.

SO WE, ON THE FIRST FLOOR, WE ARE COMPLIANT ON THE SECOND FLOOR.

I CALCULATE GO BACK TO MY, GO BACK TO MY FIRST, WHEN MY SECOND FLOOR, WE CALCULATE SLIGHTLY DIFFERENTLY BECAUSE WE'RE BASING IT ON ARTICULATION, NOT ON USE BECAUSE THE USE IS COMMON.

NOW I DON'T SEE ANYWHERE WHERE WE ARE NOT ALLOWED TO DO THAT BECAUSE WE ARE ARTICULATING THE ELEVATION, BUT I DON'T SEE WHERE IT SAYS YOU HAVE TO MOVE ONE WAY.

IN OTHER WORDS, THERE, THERE IS NO PART OF THE FIRST FLOOR THAT'S NON-COMPLIANT IN MY MIND BECAUSE WE'RE STOPPING AT THE DOOR OF THE MAIN HOUSE.

BUT IF WE HAVE SOMETHING THAT CLEARLY SAYS, IF YOU HAVE TWO BUILDINGS AND YOU JAM THEM TOGETHER WITH A HYPHEN, YOU MUST COUNT THE HYPHEN THIS WAY SPECIFICALLY.

I HAVEN'T FOUND THAT.

SO I UNDERSTAND THAT COUNSEL WITH THE SQUARE FOOTAGE, IT, I COMPLY TO THE SQUARE FOOTAGE.

SO I'M NO WE'RE OVER THE SQUARE FOOTAGE, BUT WE'RE NOT.

THAT'S MY, I DON'T BELIEVE WE ARE.

HOW ARE WE OVER THE SQUARE FOOTAGE IN YOUR CALCULATION, MR. CHAIRMAN, IF I CAN, MAYBE I CAN TRY TO ADDRESS THIS.

SO I THINK THE ISSUE IS YOU HAVE A

[01:05:01]

SQUARE FOOTAGE REQUIREMENT FOR YOUR CARRIAGE HOUSE.

IT CAN EXCEED 800 SQUARE FEET, AND THEN YOU HAVE FOR YOUR CENTER HALL BUILDING IT'S 2000 SQUARE FEET.

WHEN YOU HAVE AN ATTACHED, WHEN YOU HAVE A DETACHED CARRIAGE HOUSE, THAT CALCULATION IS VERY EASY TO FIGURE OUT WHEN IT IS ATTACHED.

HOW DO WE DIFFERENTIATE BETWEEN WHERE THE CARRIAGE HOUSE ENDS AND WHERE THE, UH, CENTER HALL HOUSE BEGINS? STAFF'S POSITION IS UNDER THE UDO.

THE CARRIAGE HOUSE IS GOING TO HAVE TO HAVE A DEFINED END AND BEGINNING.

THERE HAS TO BE A SORT OF, UH, DEFINITIVE DIVIDING LINE BETWEEN THE END OF THE CARRIAGE HOUSE IN THE BEGINNING OF THE, WHAT I'LL CALL JUST THE MAIN STRUCTURE, THE CENTER HALL HOUSE AND STAFF SAYS BECAUSE THEY ARE GOING TO MAKE THAT DETERMINATION BASED OFF OF THE ARCHITECTURAL ELEMENTS OF IT.

SO WHAT DOES, WHAT LOOKS LIKE THE CARRIAGE HOUSE? AND FROM THAT POINT, THEY ARE GOING TO DECIDE, YOU KNOW, ON THIS PARTICULAR APPLICATION, THE LINE, I THINK THAT WAS IN RED RED LINE, THE RED LINE IS WHERE THE ARCHITECTURAL ELEMENTS STAY CONSISTENT ON ONE SIDE.

AND SO THAT IS THE CARRIAGE HOUSE.

THEY'RE GONNA USE THOSE NUMBERS FOR THE CALCULATION OF SQUARE FOOTAGE, EVERYTHING TO THE SAY TO THE RIGHT, WHICH IS, YEAH, THIS AREA RIGHT HERE IS GOING TO BE USED FOR THE DETERMINATION AS TO SQUARE FOOTAGE FOR THE CENTER HALL HOUSE, BECAUSE ARCHITECTURALLY THAT'S ALL CONSISTENT.

UH, WHAT THE APPLICANT HAS SAID IS THEY SHOULD HAVE THE ABILITY TO CREATE A LINE THAT IS NOT NECESSARILY CONSISTENT WITH THE ARCHITECTURAL ELEMENT, BUT RATHER WHAT IS THE INTENDED USE? THE CARRIAGE HOUSE IS MORE DETERMINANT BASED ON USE THEN WHATEVER IT LOOKS LIKE ARCHITECTURALLY.

UM, I THINK THAT THEY HAVE BOTH PRESENTED INTERESTING ARGUMENTS.

UH, I THINK THAT IF THE UDO DOESN'T SPEAK EXPLICITLY ON THIS ISSUE, UH, AGAIN, THE UDO IS THIS PORTION OF THE UDO IS THE DESIGN STANDARDS.

SO I, IN MY HUMBLE OPINION, I THINK I WOULD LIKELY SIDE WITH THE ARGUMENT BEING OFFERED BY STAFF.

JUST BECAUSE AGAIN, IT IS A DESIGN STANDARD ISSUE, BUT AT THE SAME TIME, I, I DO THINK THAT MR. COURT HAS MADE A COMPELLING ARGUMENT.

AND AGAIN, I WILL, I THINK Y'ALL HAVE ADEQUATE DISCRETION TO MAKE THE DECISION, WHICH YOU THINK IS THIS BEST IN THIS SCENARIO.

IS THERE A STEP DOWN GOING INTO THIS AREA FROM THE MEAN HOUSE THERE IS NOT, UM, THERE IS A THRESHOLD, SORRY, I KEEP, SO THE, AND, AND I'M TRYING TO HELP YOU GUYS GET BACK TO LIKE THE, WHERE THAT 181 SQUARE FOOT DISCREPANCY IS, IS, IS LITERALLY RIGHT AT THE LINE OF THE BACK DOOR OF THE HOUSE.

AS YOU LEAVE TO GO INTO THE GARAGE SPACE OR THE CARRIAGE HOUSE SPACE.

SO OUR ARGUMENT IS THAT IS WHERE THE MAIN HOUSE STOPS BECAUSE IT IS ROUGHLY IN LINE WITH THE MAIN HOUSE.

UM, AND IT IS THE END OF THE INTENDED USE OF THE MAIN HOUSE.

IF WE GO WITH THAT RULE, IF WE GO WITH THAT PHILOSOPHY, WE ARE 1,999 SQUARE FEET ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE.

AND WE'RE I THINK 794 ON THE LEFT HAND SIDE.

SO WE ARE COMPLIANT THERE.

ISN'T WE ARE NOT OVER ON SQUARE FOOTAGE AT ALL.

IF HOWEVER, WE TAKE THE POSITION OF STAFF AND I DON'T WANNA MAKE THEIR POSITION FOR THEM, BUT I'M GONNA GO AHEAD AND DO IT.

UM, WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, WE SEE THE EDGE OF THE GARAGE HERE.

IT DOESN'T MATTER THAT SOME OF THIS IS GARAGE FUNCTION AND ACCESS TO TRASH YARDS, BUT BECAUSE IT IS, IT STEPS OUT AND THAT'S WHERE THE ARTICULATION IS.

THAT'S WHERE WE SHOULD COUNT THE GARAGE.

IN WHICH CASE THE GARAGE GETS WAY SMALLER THAN IT'S ALLOWED TO BE.

BUT BECAUSE OF THAT, WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO COUNT THIS LITTLE PORTION HERE AND MAKE THE MAIN HOUSE BIGGER THAN IT SHOULD BE.

AND THAT'S THE 181 SQUARE FOOT THAT STAFF HAS PRESENTED AS AN OVERAGE.

I JUST DISAGREE EITHER WAY.

THE BUILDING IS THE SAME EXACT SIZE.

IT HASN'T MAGICALLY SHRUNK OR GROWN.

IT'S JUST WHERE WE DRAW THE LINE.

AND I, I DON'T BELIEVE IT IS EXPLICIT IN OUR UDO.

I THINK THERE'S A LOT THAT IS WAY TOO EXPLICIT ABOUT OUR UDO, BUT THAT'S NOT ONE OF THEM.

UM, AND MY ARGUMENT IS IT SHOULD BE WHEN IT CAN BE, IT SHOULD BE USED BASED A STEP DOWN IN THE MIDDLE OF THE GARAGE ENTRY AREA.

A DIFFERENT ELEVATION WOULD BE, I DON'T KNOW.

IN ORDER TO GET TO BASICALLY IN ORDER TO GET TO THE, THE, UM, ACCESS TO THE TRASH YARD AND EVERYTHING.

SO WE HAVE, WE HAVE TO STEP UP, WE GOTTA MAKE THAT TRANSITION SOMEWHERE.

I CAN, I NEED TO ALLOW ACCESS TO TRASH.

I DON'T WANT THAT DOOR TO BE IN THE GARAGE.

I DON'T WANT IT TO BE IN THE PROXIMITY OF THE, THE DOORS OF THE GARAGE.

SO IT NEEDS TO COME AROUND THE CORNER.

I COULD MOVE THAT STAIR ANYWHERE I WANTED IN THIS L IF THAT MADE EVERYBODY FEEL BETTER.

I'M JUST ASKING THAT QUESTION, BECAUSE IF YOU MOVE THE STAIR, WOULD THAT THEN BE CONSIDERED PART OF THE GARAGE? I, I DON'T THINK SO, BECAUSE IT'S

[01:10:01]

I'M JUST, IT SOUNDS LIKE WE'RE YOU WERE BATTLING SOMETHING HERE.

THAT'S YEAH.

WORD.

IT'S HARD BECAUSE IT'S HARD.

SO THERE'S NOT A CLEAR DELINEATION.

I'M SORRY.

THAT'S ON THE SECOND FLOOR.

IS THERE A SECOND FLOOR BUILDING? YEAH, IT IT'S ESSENTIALLY, IT'S ALL PART OF THE MAIN HOUSE, RIGHT? IT'S IT'S UH, MASTER SUITE STUFF.

IT'S SO THE SECOND FLOOR IS BEING UTILIZED.

THE SECOND FLOOR IS PART OF THE MASTER.

SO IT'S NOT JUST A PATH THROUGH, I MEAN, THAT'S THAT THE BOTTOM, IT'S A CONNECTOR THAT LEADS TO THE ACTUAL MASTER BEDROOM.

SO THERE IS ARTICULATION THERE THAT SAYS, AND, AND THIS WAS ONE OF THE TOWNS REQUESTS, STAFFS REQUEST IS FURTHER ARTICULATE WHERE THAT CARRIAGE HOUSE IS.

SO WE BUMP THAT OUT.

MM-HMM , WE'VE TRIED TO REDUCE THE SCALE OF THE CONNECTOR, RIGHT? SO THE HYPHENS ROOF DROPS.

I MEAN, THIS IS ALL PART OF THE, THE CONVERSATION WE'VE HAD.

I JUST THINK WE DON'T DISAGREE ON HOW TO COUNT THE SQUARE FOOTAGE.

THE SQUARE FOOTAGE ENDS UP THE SAME ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.

IT'S JUST, YEAH, IT LOOKS LIKE YOU'RE STEPPING DOWN INTO THE MASTER SUITE, BUT YET YOU'RE FOUR.

YOU'RE NOT STEPPING DOWN UNTIL IN THE GARAGE.

SO IN, IN THE MASTER SUITE, THE REASON WE WANNA STEP DOWN RIGHT THERE IS TO JUST BRING THE SCALE DOWN AGAIN.

THIS WAS, THIS IS ALL ABOUT, AND THERE IS A LOT OF GREAT LANGUAGE IN THE UDO ABOUT CREATING SECONDARY STRUCTURES AND ABOUT HYPHENS AND CONNECTING ELEMENTS AND, AND HOW TO GO ABOUT THAT.

SO THE, THE, THE GOAL THERE IS REALLY JUST TO REDUCE EVERYTHING EVERYTHING'S RIGHT.

BATHROOM, EVERYTHING GETS LOWER.

REDUCE THE SCALE OF EVERYTHING THAT'S IN THE CONNECTOR.

AND THEN ALSO PULL THE CONNECTOR IN THE MASTER SUITE UP AGAINST THE ALLEY.

SO THAT FROM BARNACLE CUT YOU ESSENTIALLY, I HAVE A GREAT DEAL OF DISTANCE BEFORE YOU EVEN GET TO THAT STUFF.

YOU'RE TRYING TO MAKE IT LOOK LIKE IT WAS BUILT AT DIFFERENT TIMES.

GENERATIONAL.

WE HAVE THE 3D, UM, MODELS FOR THE BOTTOM, HOLD ON, RIGHT DIRECTION.

SO YOU'RE TRYING TO MAKE IT LOOK LIKE IT WAS A GENERATIONAL HOUSE THAT WAS BUILT, AND THEN THIS WAS ADDED.

AND THEN THIS WAS ADDED.

YOU'RE DROPPING THIS CEILING IN THE CONNECT.

THIS ONE IN THE BOTTOM IS PROBABLY YOUR BEST VISUAL, UM, BOTTOM LEFT, BECAUSE REALLY FROM BARNACLE CUT, YOU'RE GOING TO SEE THE MAIN HOUSE CLOSE UP.

AND THEN YOU HAVE THE COURTYARD WITH THE PIERCE BRICK WALL AND THE, THE HYPHEN AND THE CARRIAGE HOUSE ARE PUSHED WAY TO THE BACK.

BUT THAT'S ESSENTIALLY, WHAT'S TAKING PLACE HERE.

WE'RE TRYING TO KEEP THE SCALE OF THIS ROOF RIGHT HERE DOWN AS MUCH AS WE CAN.

SO WE WANNA STEP DOWN SOONER JUST TO BRING EVERYTHING DOWN THE CEILING HEIGHT, THEN EXACTLY RIGHT.

WE WANNA STAY UNDER THE MAIN ROOF OF THE MAIN HOUSE, BUT THIS LOOKS MASSIVE TO ME.

YEAH, I'M SORRY.

AND IT DOESN'T, I MEAN, IT'S NOT A PERSONAL THING.

IT JUST DOES.

AND IT DOESN'T THESE RENDERINGS DON'T, I'LL TAKE THEM OFF THE SCREEN.

HOW ABOUT THAT? I GET THE IDEA THAT YOU'RE TRYING TO PUT THE HYPHEN IN THERE AS AN ADD-ON, BUT IT DOESN'T RELATE THAT WAY IN THOSE DRAWINGS.

I MEAN, I JUST, I THINK THE GOAL IS TO PULL THAT AGAIN TOWARD DALLY, RIGHT.

TO KEEP IT AWAY AND THEN TO, TO, TO ALLOW A PAUSE OR A BREATH IN THERE WHERE THE COURTYARD IS, BUT THE SCALE AND PROPORTION OF THE BUILDINGS THEMSELVES IS NOT ALL THAT DIFFERENT THAN WHAT'S GOING ON AROUND ISRAEL.

LIKE WE'RE NOT WILDLY DIFFERENT IN SIZE.

HERE WE ARE.

YOU KNOW, OUR FLOOR TO FLOOR HEIGHTS ARE VERY SIMILAR.

OUR WINDOW PROPORTIONS AND SIZE IS VERY SIMILAR AND THIS IS, IT IS A BIGGER HOME, BUT IT, IT IS NOT OUT OF SCALE WITH THE COMMUNITY.

SEEMS LIKE IT IS OKAY.

BASED ON THESE.

AND, AND I AM NOT, I MEAN, I AM NOT A PROPONENT OF GETTING EVERY SQUARE INCH OF A, OF A LOT IN OLD TOWN.

IT JUST DOESN'T REFLECT THE WHOLE PURPOSE OF THIS.

CENTER? I'M THINKING ABOUT THE ENTIRE PROPERTY.

AND I WOULD SAY, CONSIDER IT, CONSIDER IT THIS WAY YOU HAVE FOR THE MAIN HOUSE, LET'S CALL IT 1,999 SQUARE FEET ON THE GROUND FLOOR, 1979 ON THE SECOND FLOOR.

WHEN I THINK, THINK ABOUT THE MASSING AND THE SCALE AND THE SIZE OF THIS HOUSE, I GIVE CONSIDERATION TO THAT THIRD FLOOR, EVEN THOUGH IT IS NOTED AS TOTALLY ENCLOSED AND NOT HEATED, THAT IS 707 SQUARE FEET.

WE DO THE MATH ON THAT.

THAT STILL IS WITHIN THE ALLOWABLE SQUARE FOOTED SIZE FOR, FOR THE CENTER HALL HOME.

IF WE, IF WE RUN THE NUMBERS TOTAL CALCULATION FOR HEATED TOTAL ENCLOSED, IT BRINGS US TO 5,937, WHICH IS BELOW THE 6,700 OF ALLOWABLE WITHOUT GIVING CONSIDERATION TO THE TOTAL PORCHES.

SO WHERE ARE YOU GETTING 60

[01:15:03]

SO IF WE ADD THE 5,500 TO THE 1200 SQUARE FOOT FOR THE ACCESSORY STRUCTURE FOR THE CARRIAGE HOUSE, THAT IN ESSENCE IS 6,700 SQUARE FEET, BUT YOU'RE ADDING THE CARRIAGE HOUSE.

SO THAT'S A SEPARATE, SO SUBJECTIVELY LOOKING AT A DEFINITION FOR MASSING UTILIZING THE CRITERIA THAT WE HAVE, I STILL FEEL LIKE IT FALLS BELOW WHAT, IN ESSENCE, WHAT WE'VE ALLOWED WITHIN THE UDL, WHAT WOULD BE ALLOWABLE IF WE MAXED OUT THE UDL? YES, WE ARE BELOW THAT.

THE, THE, THE CAVEAT THERE, THE THING THAT PUSHES THAT PUSHES IT OVER IS THE PORCHES OF 16, 11.

SO BRIEFLY COMMISSIONERS THE, OOPS, I DON'T KNOW IF PATIENT REALLY IS THE HISTORIC DISTRICT BECAUSE IT DOES NOT HAVE, UM, IT'S A, I GUESS SUBTRACTIVE CODE RATHER THAN AN ADDED CODE.

THE MAXIMUM ALLOWED DENSITY IS BASED ON THE DIMENSIONAL CHARACTERISTICS ESTABLISHED FOR EACH BUILDING TYPE IN COMBINATION WITH OTHER SITE CHARACTERISTICS THAT MAY LIMIT THE AMOUNT OF LAND ABLE TO ACCOMMODATE DENSITY.

THESE OTHER SITE CHARACTERISTICS INCLUDE NOT, ARE NOT LIMITED TO LOT CONFIGURATION, RIGHT, AND WAY EASEMENTS PROTECTED, NATURAL RESOURCES, OPEN SPACE, TOPOGRAPHY AND PARKING.

PORTION OF THIS CARRIAGE HOUSE MASS, THAT WOULD BE FINE IF IT WAS A STANDALONE STRUCTURE, THAT WOULD ALSO BE SOMETHING THAT COULD BE FOUND ACCEPTABLE IF IT WAS A STANDALONE STRUCTURE.

SO THEY THEY'VE GOT THEIR PARKING.

THEY, THE TOPOGRAPHY IS NOT A CHALLENGE.

THE OPEN SPACE IS NOT A CHALLENGE ON THIS SITE.

THE LOT CONFIGURATION THEY HAVE TURNED IT SO THAT IT DOES FIT A LARGER STRUCTURE.

IT DOES IN THIS CASE.

UM, THANK YOU.

IT DOES IN THIS CASE ADDRESS THE LOT WHEN YOU TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION, THE, THIS DEVELOPMENT IS A LITTLE WONKY.

HOWEVER, IF THIS STRUCTURE WE'RE ON THIS LOT WITH THE UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT ORDINANCE REQUIRES IT TO BE BUILT PARALLEL TO THE STREET.

IF THAT WERE THE CASE, THE TOP CORNER WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO BE IN THAT LOCATION BECAUSE IT WOULD RUN INTO THE SIDE SETBACK.

UM, SO YOU HAVE A CHALLENGE OF THAT WITH THE MATH THING, THE CONSIDERATION FOR THESE LINES, NOT BEING PERPENDICULAR TO THE STREET THAT IT IS ON.

UM, OR I GUESS THE STREET AND THE LOT LINES NOT BEING PERPENDICULAR TO THE REST OF THE DEVELOPMENT, BECAUSE THEY BUILT IT AT 30 DEGREES FOR SOME REASON, UM, THAT IS SOMETHING THAT'S TAKEN INTO INSPIRATION.

HOWEVER, THE MAXIMUM DENSITY BASED ON THE DEMENTIA CHARACTERISTICS FOR EACH BUILDING TYPE IS WHERE THIS REALLY COMES IN.

SO THE CENTER HALL HOUSE IS IDENTIFIED IN OUR ORDINANCE AS A DETACHED SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENCE OF BETWEEN 2050 500 SQUARE FEET WITH A MAXIMUM FOOTPRINT, NOT TO EXCEED 2000 SQUARE FEET.

IT'S TWO TO TWO AND A HALF STORIES.

AND THEN THE NOTES ON IT, WHICH ARE THE, THE OTHER ITEMS THAT ARE ADDRESSED WITH THE CHARACTERISTICS OF THE CENTER HALL HOUSE.

IT MAY HAVE A SINGLE OR DOUBLE TYPE FRONT PORCH MAY HAVE SIDE OR REAR WINGS, WHICH ARE SECONDARY TO THE MAIN MASS OF THE BUILDING.

SO THIS WING, THAT IS THE HYPHEN.

THIS IS A, A REAR WING THAT HAS BEEN ADDED ONTO THE PRIMARY MAX OF THIS STRUCTURE.

SO IT WOULD BE COUNTED TOWARDS A CENTER HALL HOUSE, A CENTER HALL VERY WELL COULD HAVE REAR SIDE WINGS.

IN THIS CASE, IT HAS A MOSTLY REAR WING THAT IS KIND OF STICKING OUT TO THE SIDE AS WELL.

UM, BUT THEN IT'S ALSO TYPICALLY 40 TO 55 FEET WIDE, WHICH, WHICH THIS, THIS MEETS THE CRITERIA FOR THAT.

SO BECAUSE OF THAT DESCRIPTION OF THE CENTER HOUSE, WHEN A STRUCTURE IS ATTACHED.

SO IF THEY HAD TWO STRUCTURES THAT WERE DETACHED, IT IS VERY PLAUSIBLE THAT THEY COULD HAVE THAT 2000 SQUARE FOOT FOOTPRINT AND ALSO AN 800 SQUARE FOOT FOOTPRINT SOMEWHERE ELSE ON THE LOT, HOW THIS IS BEING CONFIGURED DOES NOT ALLOW FOR THAT WITH THE CENTER HALL HOUSE.

IT IS ALLOWED TO HAVE REAR OR SIDE WINGS, WHICH ARE PART, WHICH ARE SECONDARY TO THE MAIN MASS OF THE STRUCTURE IN THIS CASE, THAT IS THE REAR WING.

THAT IS SECONDARY TO THE MAIN MASS OF THE STRUCTURE.

SO THEN A CENTER OR I'M SORRY, CARRIAGE POST, WHICH IS LOWER IN MY BOOK, HERE IS AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE BETWEEN 200 AND 1200 SQUARE FEET.

IT HAS MAXIMUM FOOTPRINT NOT INCLUDED PURCHASE OF 800 SQUARE FEET.

IT IS ONE TO TWO STORIES IN HEIGHT.

IT MUST BE AN ACCESSORY STRUCTURE.

ONLY ONE IS PERMITTED FOR LOT, UNLESS OTHERWISE NOTED.

IT MAY BE USED AS A GARAGE LIVING UNIT OR A HOME BUSINESS OR A ACCOMMODATION.

IT MAY FUNCTION AS A SMALL SKETCH SHOP.

THEY'RE LIMITED TO TWO CARS WITH A MAXIMUM, UH, GARAGE DOOR WIDTH OF 12 FEET, AND MUST BE OF THE SAME GENERAL CHARACTER AS THE PRIMARY STRUCTURE.

IT MUST BE PISSED BEHIND THE PRIMARY DIRECTION TOWARDS THE BACK OF THE LOT.

SO WHILE IF THIS WERE ONE HYPHEN THAT WAS UNENCLOSED SPACE, IT WOULD NOT COUNT TOWARDS IT.

THAT IS AN ACCEPTABLE SOLUTION.

IF IT WERE, UM, ARCHITECTURALLY DELINEATED AS A

[01:20:01]

AND THAT SECOND, THAT REAR WING WAS STILL A PORTION OF THE PRIMARY HOUSE.

IT WOULD EXCEED THAT SQUARE FOOTAGE FOR THE FOOTPRINT BY 181 SQUARE FEET.

SO, SO, BUT, BUT IT'S ALL GOING BACK TO WHERE YOU'RE DELINEATING THIS TO THAT.

RIGHT.

AND SO AGAIN, WE'RE LOOKING AT AN OBJECTIVE NUMBER HERE AND OBJECTIVELY WE'RE LOOKING AT, IS IT MASSING OR IS IT SQUARE FOOTAGE? AND SO I'M JUST TRYING TO CLOSE THIS UP, CUZ I THINK WE CAN TALK ABOUT THIS ALL NIGHT LONG AND WE'RE NOT GONNA GET ANYWHERE BECAUSE I THINK WE'RE ALL IN THE DISCIPLINE OR THERE'S THERE'S CONVERSATIONS GOING ON HERE AND I KIND OF NEED TO COME UP WITH FINALIZATION HERE.

SO INSTEAD OF CONTINUALLY TALKING ABOUT ISSUES OVER AND OVER, WHAT, WHERE ARE WE AT HELP US? YES, SIR.

MR. CHAIRMAN.

AND SO I, THE WAY THAT I WILL LOOK AT THIS IS THREE SEPARATE QUESTIONS.

UM, YOU HAVE, THE FIRST QUESTION IS, DOES THIS QUALIFY AS A CENTER HALL HOUSE UNDER THE UVU REQUIREMENTS, UH, WHICH HAS A MAXIMUM SQUARE FOOTAGE OF 2000 SQUARE FEET STAFF SAYS NO BASED OFF OF WHERE THEY DRAW THE DIVIDING ON IT.

UH, THE APPLICANT SAYS YES, BASED OFF OF WHERE THEY'VE PUT THE DIVIDING ON, ULTIMATELY THAT IS UP TO THE, THE HC.

DOES THE CARRIAGE HOUSE MEET THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE UD? I THINK BOTH THE APPLICANT AND STAFF SAY YES, THAT IT IS UNDER THE 800 SQUARE FEET.

UM, AND THEN FINALLY, THE THIRD QUESTION IS IRRESPECTIVE THE OTHER, THE FIRST TWO DOES THE ENTIRE STRUCTURE, THE ENTIRE, ALL OF IT COMBINE THE ENTIRE VERTICAL DEVELOPMENT THAT YOU SEE.

DOES IT WORK FROM A MASSING AND SCALE PERSPECTIVE BECAUSE YOU TAKE BOTH OF THOSE INTO CONSIDERATION SIMPLY BECAUSE THIS IS A FORM BASE CODE, SIMPLY BECAUSE IT IS PERMITTED DOESN'T MEAN OR SIMPLY BECAUSE IT IS WITHIN THE ACCEPTABLE PARAMETERS OF A SQUARE FOOTAGE STANDPOINT DOES NOT MEAN IT IS APPROPRIATE FOR THAT PARTICULAR LOT.

UM, THE WAY THAT OUR FORM BASE CODE WORKS IS YOU HAVE THESE HOUSING DESIGN TYPES AND YOU'RE GENERALLY ALLOWED TO PERMIT IT, TO BUILD THOSE WITHIN THIS, YOU KNOW, CERTAIN SQUARE FOOTAGE ON CERTAIN LOTS, BUT THERE ARE DIFFERENT DIFFERING SIZE, LOTS THROUGHOUT WHOLE TOWN.

THERE ARE DIFFERENT HOUSES TO, YOU KNOW, THE EAST AND WEST AND NORTH OF SOUTH.

THERE ARE DIFFERENT STRUCTURES TO THE EAST, WEST, NORTH, AND SOUTH.

AND IT'S ABOUT FORM BASE CODE IS ABOUT A COHESIVE HISTORIC DISTRICT AND A DESIGN AND MASSING AND SCALE PERSPECTIVE.

SO ULTIMATELY IS UP TO THE HPC TO ANSWER THOSE REALLY THOSE THREE QUESTIONS, BUT THERE'S, IT SOUNDS LIKE THERE'S ONLY TWO DOES THIS QUALIFY AS A CENTER HALL HOUSE AND THE 2000 SQUARE FOOT MAX, 2000 SQUARE FOOT MAXIMAL FOOTPRINT.

AND DOES THE ENTIRE DEVELOPMENT WORK FROM A MASSING AND SCALE PERSPECTIVE? THE ONE QUESTION I WANNA PRESENT TO THE BOARD IS, OKAY, LET'S SAY IF WE JUST HAD THE CENTER HOUSE WHO WAS ALREADY BUILT, WE HAD A PROPOSAL FOR SOMEONE TO ADD THE CARRIAGE HOUSE AS IT IS WHEN WE HAVE A PROBLEM WITH SOMEBODY PRESENTING THIS TO US, BECAUSE IT DOES OUR, IT IS LOOKING TO ME LIKE IT IS BUILT AT DIFFERENT TIMES.

IN OTHER WORDS, YOU'VE GOT ENOUGH ARTICULATION DONE.

SO I GUESS, WOULD IT BE POSSIBLE FOR SOMEBODY TO PRESENT THIS AT A, JUST BUILD THE HOUSE, THEN COME BACK AND SAY, I'M GONNA BUILD THIS AND WE'RE ALLOWING IT.

THERE'S JUST A BEDROOM ON THE SECOND FLOOR, BUT THAT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT IS OUTTA BEDROOM.

YOU'RE HAVING IT BOTH WAYS.

SO I SEPARATE STRUCTURE.

IT'S NOT, I COULD EASILY COME BACK AND SAY, I COULD HAVE COME TO YOU AND SAID, THIS IS THE END.

THIS IS WHERE WE LEAVE THE SIDE DOOR.

IT'S ROUGHLY IN LINE WITH THE REAR PORCH.

IT IS A REAR APPENDAGE, BUT IT IS IN LINE WITH THE REAR PORCH.

AND WE COULD HAVE GOTTEN THAT AT 199 OR 1,999.

WE COULD HAVE BUILT THAT AND WE COULD HAVE STOPPED AND THERE WOULD BE NO GARAGE.

AND AT SOME POINT DOWN THE ROAD, I COULD COME BACK AND I COULD SAY, THIS IS WHERE MY GARAGE IS GONNA START.

I GET 800 SQUARE FEET.

I BUILD IT.

AND I HAPPEN TO ENCLOSE AND CONNECT, WHATEVER I PUT OVER THERE WITH WHAT'S OVER HERE, INCLUDING THE HYPHEN.

AND I DON'T, AGAIN, I DON'T THINK THAT I WOULD BE IN VIOLATION OF ANYTHING.

AND THAT'S WHAT I'M TRYING TO, YOU KNOW, IF WE'RE DOING HISTORIC PRESERVATION, WE'RE TRYING TO MAKE THINGS LOOK LIKE THERE WAS A POSSIBILITY OF THIS BEING BUILT AT DIFFERENT TIMES.

AND I'M, I'M FEELING THAT WITH THIS, IN MY OPINION.

AND I THINK WE JUST HAVE TO I'M FEELING THAT IT WAS BUILT.

IN OTHER WORDS, YOU'RE ARTICULATING IT IN A DIFFERENT, JUST A MASK THAT'S WE RUN THE NUMBERS ON IT FROM, NO, I DON'T HAVE OUR, I DON'T HAVE AN ISSUE BECAUSE IT LOOKS, IT'S NOT, IF THEY HAD A STRAIGHT WALL, UM, FORGET IT.

IF THEY HAD NO ARTICULATION, FORGET IT, BUT IT LOOKS

[01:25:01]

LIKE THE ROOF LINES ARE DIFFERENT.

LOOKS LIKE, YOU KNOW, YOU PAID ATTENTION TO THAT.

I MEAN, THAT'S WHERE MR. CHAIR.

THE, THE CHALLENGE THAT WE'RE HAVING IS THAT THE SQUARE FOOTAGE ON THE INSIDE IS NOT REFLECTIVE OF THE EXTERNAL, WHERE THAT BREAK IS.

IF YOU CAN GO BACK TO THAT LAST SLIDE THAT SHOWS THE RED AND YELLOW, THIS IS THE CHALLENGE THAT STAFF IS HAVING IS THAT THE SQUARE FOOTAGE THAT IS BEING COUNTED ON THE FLOOR PLAN IS INCLUSIVE OF THE SPACE.

THAT'S BETWEEN THE RED AND YELLOW LINE ON THE FIRST FLOOR THERE, WHICH IS PART OF THAT WING.

AND ON THE EXTERIOR, IT DOES APPEAR TO BE AN EXTERIOR CARRIAGE HOUSE WHERE THE RED LINE IS THAT STACKS, THAT IS THE SECONDARY STRUCTURE THERE.

AND SO THE INSIDE IS THE YELLOW LINE.

THE OUTSIDE IS BEING COUNTED AS THE RED LINE.

SO IT'S THAT THEY'RE COUNTING THE SQUARE FOOTAGE ON THE EXTERNAL OR COUNTING A DIFFERENT IS LESS.

THE INTERNAL, EXTERNAL ARE NOT ALIGNED IS WHAT THE CHALLENGE HERE IS, IS THAT, THAT THEY'RE NOT IT.

BUT TO, TO THAT POINT, EXACTLY WHAT BRUCE DESCRIBED IS I COULD HAVE EASILY COME AND STOPPED THE CONSTRUCTION HERE AND NOT HAD A HYPHEN OVER TOP.

IT COULD HAVE BEEN A ONE STORY CONNECTOR THAT STOPPED AT THE YELLOW LINE.

AND WHEN I CAME BACK TO YOU THE VERY NEXT DAY, I'M COMPLETE WITH MY CONSTRUCTION.

I'D LIKE TO BUILD MY CARRIAGE HOUSE.

NOW I CAN MATHEMATICALLY, WOULDN'T YOU SORRY TO WOULDN'T YOU EXCEED THIS, UH, CARRIAGE HOUSE? UH, I WOULD NOT BECAUSE I'M ACTUALLY, THERE'S LESS THAN 800 SQUARE FEET FROM, FROM THAT YELLOW LINE BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT CUZ YOU'RE DOING THE YELLOW LINE.

I MEAN, AROUND THE NUMBERS ON THE TWO SEPARATE ALLOWABLES, WE STAY WITHIN THE ALLOWABLES IN EVERY CASE GOES TOGETHER.

IT BECOMES A SUBJECTIVE DECISION OF REMEDIATION WHEN, WHEN IT'S DONE.

SO IN A MANNER THAT LOOKS LIKE IT WAS DONE OVER THE COURSE OF, IN A MANNER, I HAVE SEEN SMALLER LINES, SIMILAR, IF NOT MORE SQUARE, THIS IS A LINE YOU THINK THAT THAT REFLECTS THE WHOLE TIME UDO VISION.

YEAH, I THINK, YOU KNOW, WE'RE LOOKING AT THIS BECAUSE ITS ALL ONE BLOB RIGHT NOW, YOU'RE LOOKING AT IT AS JUST, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE NOT LOOKING AT A DIMENSION AND, AND IT CREATES THAT OBJECTIVE PROBLEMS THAT WE COME ACROSS.

SO I THINK THE FACT THAT WE HAVE A STRUCTURE SUCH AS SEVEN OAKS THAT SITS BESIDE, YOU KNOW, THE P OUT, NO, UM, THAT WE HAVE THE DISSIMILAR SIZES AND SCALES CLOSE TO SMALLER HOMES IS A RELATIVELY NEW COMMUNITY WITHIN THE OLD TOWN AREA TO, I'M NOT UM, HOW ABOUT I'M NOT AT IT? I, I THINK IT'S JUST BASICALLY JUST AS, YEAH, NO, THAT'S GOOD.

I THINK MAYBE WE GO DOWN.

I MEAN, TO ME, I, I THINK THE HOUSE IS, UH, AWESOME.

I THINK Y'ALL DID A GREAT JOB OF BREAKING, UM, THE MASS.

UM, AND TO ME THOUGH, I THINK FOR ME, THIS IS OBJECTIVE.

UM, I THINK, UM, I DO AGREE WITH, UM, STAFF, AS FAR AS TO ME THE CARRIAGE HOUSE EITHER HAS TO BE, UH, THE AREA IN RED OR IT WOULD HAVE TO INCLUDE BOTH THE CARRIAGE HOUSE AND THAT WHOLE APPENDIX UH, UH, UH, CONNECTION.

I DON'T THINK YOU CAN JUST SLICE AND DICE ON THE FIRST AND SECOND FLOOR, UH, TO GET UNDER THE SQUARE FOOTAGE FOR ME.

I CAN'T, I THINK THAT IS, I KNOW THAT THAT'S THE SUBJECTIVE PART, BUT I, I THINK IT DOES NEED TO DELINEATE EITHER THE WHOLE, UM, THAT WHOLE HALLWAY PART OR IT JUST NEEDS TO BE THE CARRIAGE HOUSE.

SO IN THAT OBJECTIVELY, YES.

AS THAT YELLOW LINE THAT CAN BE DONE.

CURIOUSLY, IF, IF WE WERE TO PULL, TRYING TO GET THE CURSORY TO SHOW UP HERE, YOU KNOW, PULL, PULL THE COLUMNS OR WHATEVER THE ROOF FORM STRUCTURE OUT IN LINE.

AND IT REALLY DID.

I MEAN, I, I DON'T THINK IT MAKES THE PROJECT BETTER, BUT I CAN CERTAINLY DELINEATE THAT LINE MORE CLEARLY IN YELLOW AND MAKE THAT FEEL LIKE THE SECOND FLOOR HYEN WAS BUILT OVER TIME.

AND THIS, I, I CAN'T DO IT WITH AN EXTRA GARAGE DOOR, BUT I COULD CERTAINLY PULL ARCHITECTURE FORWARD.

I JUST FEEL LIKE WE'RE ADDING MORE MASS.

WE'RE TRYING TO ACTUALLY DISGUISE THE HYPHEN, NOT, NOT CELEBRATE IT IN THIS CASE, BUT, BUT IF THAT WERE THE, BECAUSE I'M NOT TRYING TO GET A HUNDRED EIGHTY ONE, THREE SQUARE FEET, I'M, I'M REALLY NOT LIKE WHEN YOU DO ALL THE MATH COLLECTIVELY TOGETHER, IT WE'RE STILL WITHIN THE TOLER ALLOWANCES.

BUT IF THE HANG UP WAS REALLY JUST, WE NEED THIS TO BE BETTER ARTICULATED

[01:30:01]

I THINK OUR HANGUP IS HIGHER 81.

THAT'S THAT'S MY, THAT, YOU KNOW, THAT'S IN, I JUST THINK THAT IT HAS TO STOP AT THE END OF THE MAIN HOUSE.

LIKE I COULD.

I KNOW, BUT HOW DO YOU, HOW DO YOU FIX THAT? WELL, YOU, YOU COULD, YOU COULD TAKE EXACTLY WHERE THAT YELLOW LINE IS AND YOU COULD TAKE THAT CO PORTION OF THE COADE AND YOU COULD PULL IT FORWARD WITH A SHED ROOF AND IT WOULD APPEAR TO STEP FORWARD AS IF MAYBE IT HAD BEEN A CARPORT AT ONE TIME AND WE DECIDED TO ENCLOSE IT AND WE DECIDED TO CONNECT TO THE CARRIAGE HOUSE.

I STILL FALL BACK TO THAT SAME POSITION THOUGH, THAT THIS COULD HAVE VERY EASILY BEEN A ONE STORY STRUCTURE THAT WE ADDED IN ONTO THE VERY NEXT YEAR AND WE STILL COMPLY, BUT I GET IT.

SO IF, IF THE GOAL HAD BEEN, LET'S MAKE CELEBRATE SOMETHING IN BETWEEN HERE A LITTLE MORE, LET'S BRING IT FORWARD.

I COULD ABSOLUTELY DO THAT.

AND WE COULD SAY THAT'S THE ARTICULATION.

I WOULD SAY THAT THAT IN MANY WAYS THAT DEFEATS OTHER PURPOSES OF ADDING ADDITIONAL ROOT SQUARE FOOTAGE LIKE THAT.

I THINK YOU USED TO ADDING MORE MASK TO ME.

IT'S ADDING MORE RATHER THAN LESS.

I, I WOULD RATHER ALLOW ADD LESS AS I FIRST STATED WAY BACK IS SCREEN IT IN.

WELL, IT'S A SERVICE AND YEAH, IT OPENS TO THE, I SEE THE REASON WHY IT'S THERE, UH, MR. MR. CHAIRMAN.

SO WE CAN BE MINDFUL OF THE OTHER APPLICANT.

YEAH, WE DID BECAUSE WE GOT TWO OTHER APPLES.

I THINK WE'RE STUCK.

WE'RE STUCK IN A BIG LOOP AND I, I, WE GOTTA TRY TO WORK ON THESE LOOPS THAT WE GET INTO AND JUST KEEP HAMMERING ON SOMETHING.

HOW DO WE, HOW DO WE COME TO A, A DECISION? I THINK THAT STAFF AND THE APPLICANT AND MYSELF NOT SPEAK, UH, LET THE SEVEN COMMISSIONERS DISCUSS IT AND MAKE A DECISION.

I GUESS ONE OF THE THINGS IS WE NEED TO COME UP WITH A DECISION AND I THINK WE ALL HAVE OUR OPINION ON IT AND LET'S, UH, HAVE SOMEBODY, UH, WHAT'S OUR, WHAT'S OUR NEXT ITEM.

UM, THAT NEEDS TO BE DISCUSSED.

IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE? YEAH.

ON HERE.

I THINK WE'RE GOOD.

WE'RE GOOD.

ONE OF THE OTHER, I DO HAVE A QUESTION IS I NOTICED THAT IN THE HABITAT OR THE TABBY ROADS IS THAT THEY HAD QUITE A FEW, UM, ITEMS FOR CLARIFICATION.

UH, AND I'M JUST CURIOUS IF YOU, UH, MET THESE REQUIREMENTS.

WE, WE HAVE, WE HAVE BEEN CORRESPONDING WITH ROB AND WE TOLD HIM WE WERE GOING TO ALL OF THESE WERE DOABLE, BUT WE WANTED TO GET THROUGH THIS PROCESS BEFORE.

SO I GUESS THIS WAS, YEAH.

ONE OF THE THINGS IS THEY APPROVED IT WITH CONDITIONS.

AND SO HOW WERE DOING WITH THE CONDITIONS? OBVIOUSLY, THEY'RE NOT GONNA LET YOU BUILD, BUT RIGHT.

I WANTED TO, WE'RE DOING FINE.

I, I THINK THERE WAS A HICCUP BETWEEN ROB AND, AND US AND STAFF, JUST TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHICH, WHAT THERE WAS A CHICKEN AND EGG THING.

ROB WAS SAYING, WE DON'T GIVE YOU FINAL UNTIL HPC GIVES YOU FINAL.

AND KATIE SAID, NO, THAT'S NOT HOW IT WORKS.

YOU GUYS GET THE FINAL SAY.

SO HE WROTE US A CONDITIONAL APPROVAL BASED ON A EMERGENCY HARD MEETING.

AND THEY'VE GOT A FEW CONDITIONS.

THEY WANT US TO ADDRESS, WHICH WE WILL ABSOLUTELY DO.

BUT, UH, WE DID WANT TO GET THAT IN STAFF'S HANDS.

SO THAT COULD BE INCLUDED OKAY.

COMFORTABLE WITH IT.

AND WHICHEVER ONE WAS LIKE A, HOLD ON ABOUT 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8.

SO, UM, I KNOW THAT I DON'T THINK WE HAVE ANY, UM, SOLUTION HERE AS FAR AS THE WHOLE COMMISSION GOES, BUT I THINK WE DO NEED TO COME UP TO A, UH, A POINT OF MAKING A DECISION AND MOVING ON.

UM, AND IF WE COULD ASK IF SOMEBODY WANTS TO MAKE A MOTION, UM, WITH THE, UM, THINGS THAT WE DISCUSSED IN REGARDS TO THE INFORMATION, I THINK THE BOREAL WE NEED TO ADDRESS THAT.

I THINK THAT WILL BE GOOD IF SOMEBODY MADE A MOTION REGARDS TO POSSIBLY SENDING A NEW PRECEDENT HERE.

UM, UH, WAS THERE ANY OTHER WINDOWS I THINK, UH, WE NEEDED TO ADDRESS SOMETHING IN REGARDS TO THE WINDOWS.

UM, THE OTHER BIG THING WAS JUST THE TRANSO WINDOW WITH THE YES.

YOU TELL OF, SO THE MOTION'S GONNA BE SOMEWHAT COMPLEX CUZ IT'S NOT GONNA BE ABLE TO JUST COPY THIS.

I DON'T BELIEVE, BUT IT WILL BE KIND OF USING THAT AS A GUIDE THERE.

WOULD YOU SAY THERE ARE 10 DIFFERENT WINDOW SIZES PLUS MINES? YES.

AND OUR USUAL IS LIKE FOUR, THERE ARE A LOT 14 DIFFERENT WINDOW TAPES WITH 10 DIFFERENT WINDOW PAINT PROPORTIONS.

SO THE, UH, MR. CHAIRMAN, THE APPLICANT SAID THAT THERE ARE THE, THE 10 CONDITIONS THAT THERE ARE LISTED, UH, THAT THEY WERE NOT TRULY OBJECTING TO NUMBERS.

3, 4, 5, 6, 7, AND 10, I BELIEVE WHAT WAS, DID, UM, EITHER 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8.

[01:35:01]

AND YES.

10.

THAT'S WHAT YOU SAID.

I APOLOGIZE.

AND SO THAT LEAVES, THAT REALLY LEAVES CONDITIONS ONE, TWO AND NINE, UM, AS FOR, YOU KNOW, FOR CONSIDERATION.

SO AGAIN, YOUR, YOU HAVE A STAFF RECOMMENDATION OF DENYING THIS APPLICATION, OR YOU CAN APPROVE IT WITH CONDITIONS OR YOU CAN JUST APPROVE IT WITHOUT CONDITIONS.

SO, UH, YOU KNOW, IF, IF THE MASSING AND SCALE ISSUE OR THE SCREW FOOTAGE ISSUES, CAN'T BE RESOLVED, THAT'S NOT REALLY A CAN, YOU KNOW, IT IS HARD TO SEND THAT BACK WITH THE CONDITION TO ADDRESS THE MASSING, UNLESS YOU WANT TO DELEGATE THAT TO STAFF TO GO.

SO I THINK THE FIRST QUESTION, AND WE DIDN'T HEAR FROM ALL OF THE COMMISSIONERS ON THE MASSING AND SCALE, UM, QUESTION I THINK, UH, FROM, UH, COMMISSIONER IS A GOODMAN.

GOOD.

I, I THINK THAT'S, HE IS THE ONLY ONE WE HAVEN'T HEARD FROM, I BELIEVE WE'VE HEARD FROM MS. BOX BELL AND MS. FRAZIER HAS ABOUT THEIR CONCERNS WITH THE, THE MASSING AND THE SCALE AND THE SQUARE FOOTAGE.

BUT IF YOU HAVE FOUR COMMISSIONERS, IT SEEMS THAT WOULD GO ONE WAY OR ANOTHER.

I CAN HELP WORK ON THAT MOTION.

SO I, IF YOU DON'T MIND, I I'D LIKE TO GIVE HIM MR. UH, COMMISSIONER GOODWIN BEFORE I THANK YOU.

SO I DON'T HAVE AN ISSUE WITH THE SQUARE FOOTAGE.

YOU CAN CUT IT AND DICE IT ANY WAY YOU WANT TO.

I THINK THE, UM, I THINK THE ARTICULATION OF THE STRUCTURES WAS DONE REALLY WELL.

IT'S A REALLY GOOD LOOKING HOUSE.

I THINK THE SCALE IS, UH, INAPPROPRIATE FOR THE AREA OF TOWN THAT IT'S IN PERSONALLY.

I MEAN, I, I KNOW HE SAID THIS, THE WOULDN'T REALLY MATTER, BUT THAT SEEMS LIKE IF YOU'RE GONNA CUT IT THAT SIGNIFICANTLY, THAT IT WOULD CHANGE A LOT OF THE LOOK APPEARANCE.

AND I THINK, I, I THINK THE APPLICANT SAID THAT THEY'RE WILLING TO WORK WITH STAFF ON THAT CONDITION TO TRY TO REDUCE THE NUMBER OF WINDOWS AND TO BRING IT CLOSER TO THAT NUMBER THAT FOUR AND LESS THAN 20% SIZE AND STYLE WINDOW, IT DOESN'T HAVE TO ACTUALLY REDUCE THE WINDOW.

JUST IT MAKE 'EM INSTEAD OF ALL 3 0 5 0 3 0 6 0 3 0 4, MAKE 'EM ALL 3 0 6 HOUR DOWN TO WHATEVER THE NUMBER.

SO I THINK BASED OFF OF, OKAY, BUT WE DO NEED TO ADDRESS THE BOEL.

I THINK WE'RE SAYING THAT WE'RE NOT GONNA ALLOW IT, BUT IT SOUNDS LIKE WE, SOME DISCUSSION THERE'S A POSSIBILITY OF, I WOULD LIKE TO ATTEMPT TO COVER THAT IN THE MOTION AS WELL.

IF NOT, I'M LOOKING FOR A VOTE.

VERY GOOD.

UM, IF YOU'RE WILLING TO MAKE A MOTION, PLEASE PRESENT IT.

I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION THAT THE COMMITTEE APPROVES THIS SUBMITTAL BASED ON THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS, UM, FOR ITEM AND I'M READING THROUGH THE STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS FOR ITEM NUMBER ONE, TO ALLOW THE SQUARE FOOTAGE AS SUBMITTED FOR NUMBER TWO, DO NOT REQUIRE REPOSITIONING TO RUN PARALLEL IN FRONT OF THE LOCK FOR NUMBER THREE FOR THE WINDOW PROPORTIONS, TO BE REVIEWED AT A STAFF LEVEL BASED PRIMARILY UPON THE ADJUSTMENT OF THE TWO TRANSO WINDOWS ON THE RIGHT ELEVATION FOR NUMBER FOUR, TO ACCEPT THE USE OF BO FOR NUMBER FIVE, TO ACCEPT THE USE OF BORROW NUMBER SIX, TO CONFIRM WOOD OR CLAD EXTERIOR MATERIALS TO BE APPROVED AT STAFF LEVEL.

SORRY, THAT WAS NUMBER SIX, NUMBER SEVEN, NUMBER SEVEN FOR THE PREVIOUSLY STATED WINDOWS IN THE RIGHT ELEVATION TO BE ADJUSTED AND REVIEWED FOR APPROVAL AT STAFF RECOMMENDATION, WHERE IT'S STAFF LEVEL FOR NUMBER EIGHT, THE THREE INCH REVEAL BELOW THE TRANS AND WINDOWS TO BE ADJUSTED FOR APPROVAL.

ATS STAFF LOVE THEM FOR NUMBER NINE TO APPROVE THE SCALE FOR THE STRUCTURE AS DESIGNED FOR NUMBER 10 FOR STAFF RECOMMENDATION MOTION CLEAR.

AND DO I HAVE A SECOND? I'LL SECOND.

DO WE HAVE ANY FURTHER DISCUSSIONS?

[01:40:01]

SO THE MOTION PETERSON FAILED, UH, TO GO A, WE GET, WE GOT THREE IN FAVOR AND FOUR POSES.

IS THAT WHAT I UNDERSTAND? I'VE BEEN IN HERE? THE, I DIDN'T PERSONALLY HEAR THREE OF US.

WELL YOU, SO WE HAVE FOUR NAS AND THREE.

SO, UH, WITH THAT MOTION FAILING, WHAT YOU, WHAT WE CAN DO IS CONSIDER A ALTERNATIVE MOTION.

IF ANOTHER COMMISSIONER WANTS TO MAKE A MOTION TO, AGAIN, APPROVE WITH CONDITIONS.

AND SO THE DIFFERENT CONDITIONS, UM, A MOTION TO DENY THE APPLICATION OR A MOTION TO APPROVE, UM, THE BOARD SHOULD ENTERTAIN IT.

I'D LIKE TO MAKE A MOTION TO RESUBMIT, OR CAN I ADJUST MY PREVIOUS MOTION OR BE A BRAND NEW MOTION, RIGHT? BECAUSE THAT MOTION DIED THAT MOTION AND THAT MOTION'S DEAD.

SO, UH, THE, THE FLOOR IS OPEN TO NEW MOTIONS.

I WOULD SAY THAT I WOULD RECOMMEND THAT YOU GIVE ANOTHER COMMISSIONER AN OPPORTUNITY FIRST SO THAT THEY CAN PROVIDE IT.

BUT IF, IF Y'ALL WOULD LIKE FOR COMMISSIONER SIMPSON TO GO AHEAD AND MAKE ANOTHER MOTION, THAT'S CERTAINLY WELCOME US AS WELL.

UM, ARE WE IN FAVOR OF LETTING MAKE ANOTHER MOTION OR DOES SOMEBODY ELSE WANT TO SPEAK? UM, I SAY OPPOSED.

SO GO AHEAD, PLEASE.

I WOULD LIKE TO, IF I COULD, UM, RECITE THE RECORD FOR MY REFERENCE TO ITEMS ONE THROUGH EIGHT AND HAVE THEM RESTATE IT AS, AS PRIOR.

UM, AND THEN FOR ITEM NINE FOR THE MASS IN SCALE TO BE STUDIED AND RESUBMITTED FOR REVIEW AT STAFF LEVEL AND H PCR, IF NECESSARY PRC IN ESSENCE, EVERYTHING THAT I HAD SAID PRIOR, APPROVING SQUARE FOOTAGE, BUT ASKING THAT SCALE, BE RECONSIDERED AND REMITTED SPECIFICALLY IN CONSIDERATION OF THE HYPHEN CONNECTION.

SO THAT, THAT CAN BE BROUGHT BACK BEFORE STAFF BACK BEFORE H PRC FOR REVIEW.

SO THAT'S THE MOTION.

SO WANT TO GET A SECOND ON THAT? DOES THAT MAKE, DOES THE MOTION CLEAR THE MOTION? THE MOTION MAKES SENSE.

IT'S ESSENTIALLY DELEGATING THE, UM, THE CONSIDERATION AS TO MASSING SCALE FOR STAFF AND HAVING STAFF MAKE THAT DETERMINATION AFTER EVERYBODY'S ALLOWING THE APPLICANT TO WORK WITH STAFF RATHER THAN DENYING THE APPLICATION AND FORCING IT TO GO TO GO BACK TO THE VERY BEGINNING.

UM, IT'S WE STILL NEED A SECOND.

WE STILL NEED A SECOND.

YES, I'M LOOKING FOR A SECOND.

SORRY.

UM, I WAS JUST GONNA DISCUSS, SO IF IT IS DENIED, WE HAVE TO GET A SECOND.

FIRST.

WE HAVE A SECOND COMMISSIONER.

NOW, NOW WE'RE OPEN FOR THE SEARCH.

UH, IF IT IS DENIED, THEN IT COMES BACK BEFORE HPC WITH ADDRESSING THE COMMENTS, UH, THIS FIT UNDER THE CURRENT FRAMEWORK.

IT WOULD NOT NECESSARILY COME BACK BEFORE HPC.

SO IF THIS MOTION PASSES, IT'S UP TO STAFF TO MAKE A DETERMINATION AS TO MASSING AND SCALE, UM, AND STAFF TO, IN ESSENCE, WORK WITH THE APPLICANT ON WHAT WOULD BE AN APPROPRIATE MASSING AND SCALE FOR THIS, FOR THIS PROJECT, UH, FOR THIS DEVELOPMENT USING H PRC.

WELL, THEY, THEY, THEY COULD GO TO HPR.

SCIENCE WAS, THEY HAVE NO VOTING HRC HAS NO VOTING, BUT IT WOULD JUST BE PRESENTED YEAR.

YEAH, THAT'S HOW, YEAH, I THINK I CAN, UH, WE WOULD BE HAPPY TO IF THE OTHER CONDITIONS ARE SOMETHING YOU GUYS CAN GET BEHIND AND APPROVE, WE WOULD BE HAPPY TO NOT ONLY WORK WITH STAFF, BUT ALSO REPRESENT TO YOU AT, I MEAN, THIS IS, THERE'S NOT A RUSH TO THIS.

SO ULTIMATELY IT'S THE UDO.

IT WOULD BE INVESTED IN THE UDO ADMINISTRATOR.

UM, YOU KNOW, I, TO, AGAIN, THIS IS ULTIMATELY Y'ALL'S DECISION, BUT YOU KNOW, THE UDO ADMINISTRATOR AND THE UDO VEST DETERMINATIONS AS TO MASS AND SCALE, REALLY WITH THE HPC, UH, THAT IS A THAT'S FRANKLY GONNA BE A TOUGH POSITION TO PUT STAFF IN AS TO MAKING THAT SORT OF DETERMINATION, BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY THEY'RE GONNA WANT TO WORK WITH THE, THEY'RE GOING TO WANT TO DO THIS AND THEN JUST CROSS THEIR FINGERS AND HOPE FOR THE BEST.

UM, I, I, AGAIN, I DON'T WANT TO TRY TO SWAY, SWAY Y'ALL IN WHATEVER DECISION YOU ARE GOING TO MAKE, BUT I THINK IT, YOU SHOULD BE MINDFUL OF WHAT YOUR RESPONSIBILITIES ARE AND WHY STAFF PUTS THAT SORT OF DETERMINATION ON THE, YOU KNOW, THESE SEVEN VOLUNTEER MEMBERS OF OUR COMMUNITY.

SO THIS IS SUCH AN OBJECTIVE.

IT,

[01:45:01]

I'M HAPPY TO COME BACK TO, I'D JUST LIKE TO GET THE REMAINING ITEMS OFF THE LIST SO THAT WE CAN PRODUCTIVELY MOVE FORWARD.

UM, SO IF IT'S A SCALE AND, AND MOTION, I MEAN A SCALE AND MASSING CONVERSATION, IF, IF WE CAN AGREE TO THE SQUARE FOOTAGE AND THE, AND THE ANGLE OF ROTATION ON THE LOT AND ALL OF THAT OTHER STUFF, I'D BE HAPPY TO BRING THAT AND THE WINDOWS AND EVERYTHING ELSE BACK TO YOU GUYS.

SO THAT ESSENTIALLY WOULD BE A MOTION TO TABLE THIS APPLICATION, UM, TO ALLOW THE APPLICANT TIME TO WELL EVALUATE THE STAFF.

IS THERE PORTIONS OF THIS CLEAR BECAUSE I, I THINK THE, THE FACT THAT HPC HAS INDICATED, UH, CERTAIN ASPECTS OF THIS, I THINK OF, I DON'T, YOU KNOW, I, I, MY PREFERENCE WOULD BE THAT YOU EITHER TABLE THE WHOLE THING, I THINK WE KNOW MORE OR LESS HOW THE COMMISSION STANDS ON OUT OF THE 10 CONDITIONS, UH, ALL, BUT ALL THE POTENTIALLY ONE OR TWO OF THEM, UH, WHICH IS SOMETHING THAT THEY CAN WORK WITH STAFF ON, IF YOU ALL DECIDE TO TABLE IT, UH, AGAIN, YOUR OTHER OPTION IS TO, UM, YOU KNOW, WE STILL HAVE A PENDING MOTION, SO WE HAVE TO MAKE A DECISION ON THE PENDING.

THAT'S GREAT.

WE DO HAVE A MOTION, SO IT HAS TO BE VOTED ON.

SO, UM, WERE IN DISCUSSION.

SO NOW I'M LOOKING FOR A VOTE ON THAT MOTION.

SO I GUESS, UH, ALL IN FAVOR OF THE MOTION.

AYE, AYE, AYE.

I'LL OPPOSED MAY, MAY, MAY.

SO THE MOTION DIES.

SO NOW WE HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO EITHER MAKE ANOTHER MOTION OR TO TABLE IT, UM, FOR, UH, SECOND PRESENTATION.

IS THAT CORRECT? THAT IS CORRECT.

AND I, AND DENY YOU'RE YOU'RE IT DOES SOUND LIKE THE OPTIONS RIGHT NOW ARE THE CONSIDERATION OF A MOTION TO DENY THE APPLICATION OR A MOTION TO TABLE.

UM, I MEAN, OBVIOUSLY YOU HAVE MORE CONNECTIONS YOU COULD MAKE, BUT JUST FOR THE SAKE, WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN TABLING AND DENYING TABLING IT, YOU DON'T, YOU ESSENTIALLY, AREN'T STARTING OVER, UM, FROM A TIMING PERSPECTIVE.

I'M NOT SURE IF IT'S THAT, THAT BIG OF AN ISSUE.

THAT'S PROBABLY A BETTER QUESTION FOR STAFF.

UH, THEY CAN TELL YOU WHAT IT MEANS FROM A TIMING PERSPECTIVE.

I WOULD THINK THAT YOU DON'T HAVE TO, IF YOU TABLE, YOU DON'T HAVE TO PAY A HUNDRED, SOME ODD DOLLAR APPLICATION FEE KIND, GO THROUGH CONCEPTUAL AND THEN COME BACK TO, TO THE HPC AS A FINAL APPLICATION.

YEP.

TABLING IT, PACKAGING IT.

SO IN OTHER WORDS, WHEN YOU JUST REJECT IT, BUT TABLING, IT ALLOWS IT TO COME BACK WITH THE SAME PROCESS IN PROCEDURES.

I MEAN, IN OTHER WORDS, IT'S JUST CONTINUING TO COME FORWARD AGAIN.

IF IT WERE A TABLE, THEN THEY WOULD MAKE THE REVISIONS THAT THEY SEE FIT PRESENTED TO THE HPC AT THE MEETING THAT YOU ALL SPECIFY.

SO CAN I GET A MOTION TO TABLE THIS AFRICAN I'LL MAKE A MOTION TO TABLE THE APPLICATION A SECOND, GET A SECOND.

SECOND, GET A SECOND.

ANY DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR.

AYE.

CAN HE OPPOSED? SO WE HAVE ALL IN FAVOR.

YOU'RE ON TO OUR NEXT ITEM AND IT LOOKS LIKE KATIE, YOU ARE ON TO THE NEXT ITEM.

UM, YOU SAID THAT WE HAVE TO TELL 'EM WHEN THE NEXT MEETING OR THAT'S SOMETHING THAT THEY HAVE TO DECIDE OR THAT'S STAFF, ISN'T IT THAT'S GONNA BE MORE AFRICAN AND STAFF AND WHEN THEY WILL BE PRESENTED.

UM, SO THEY'RE, YOU KNOW, CERTAIN ITEMS WERE NOT EXPLICIT, BUT IT DOES APPEAR THAT COMMISSIONER SMELT OR SIMPSON TRIMER AND, UH, GOODMAN HAD NO ISSUES WITH THE SQUARE FOOTAGE ALLOCATION.

UH, AND IT, WE, BUT IT WAS MORE ABOUT THE MASSING AND SCALE.

SO ESSENTIALLY THIS BRINGS IT LARGELY TO WHAT COMMISSIONER SIMPSON THEN REQUESTED ON THAT SECOND MOTION.

IT'S GONNA GO BACK TO STAFF OR THE APPLICANT AND STAFF ARE GONNA WORK TO TRY TO GET A CONSENSUS ON MASSING AND SCALE AND BRING THIS BACK BEFORE THE COMMISSION, HOPEFULLY WITH A, EITHER A RECOMMENDATION ONE WAY OR ANOTHER FROM STAFF AND A POSITION FROM THE APPLICANT FOR A FINAL DETERMINATION.

[IX. 2. Certificate of Appropriateness: A request by Kathleen Duncan, on behalf of the owners, Suzanne and Franco Sirkin, for approval of a Certificate of Appropriateness - HD to allow the addition of an outdoor shower and deck of approximately 102 SF on the existing single-family residential structure of approximately 2,578 SF located at 5774 Yaupon Road, Lot 17A in the Stock Farm Development, in the Old Town Bluffton Historic District and zoned Neighborhood General-HD. (COFA-06-22-016935) (Staff - Katie Peterson)]

I BELIEVE.

FOR, FOR AN ADDITION OF A HUNDRED, TWO SQUARE FEET.

HOUSE CHAIR.

THE SECOND ITEM WE HAVE BEFORE US TONIGHT IS A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS

[01:50:01]

IT'S AN OUTDOOR SHOWER AREA ON AN EXISTING STRUCTURE OF 2,578 SQUARE FEET.

IT'S SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENCE IS LOCATED AT 7 74 YON ROAD, WHICH IS LOT 17 A IN THE STOCK FARM DEVELOPMENT.

IT'S IN THE OLD TOWN BLOCK STORE DISTRICT.

AND IT'S ZONED NEIGHBORHOOD GENERAL ON THE, UM, SITE PLAN OR THE, A PORTION OF THE SITE PLAN HERE.

THIS IS THE REAR OF THE STRUCTURE.

YOU'LL BE ABLE TO SEE IT BETTER IN THE ELEVATIONS.

AND IT IS IN YOUR STAFF REPORTS THAT YOU HAVE BEFORE YOU TODAY ON THE LEFT HAND SIDE IS WHAT IS CURRENTLY EXISTING ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE IS WHAT IS BEING PROPOSED.

UM, SO YOU CAN SEE HERE, I'VE CLOUDED IT IN RED FOR YOU, BUT IT IS AN OUTDOOR SHOWER AREA.

THE REASON THIS IS COMING BEFORE YOU IS BECAUSE WHEN SOMETHING ADDS A ROOF OVER IT, NO MATTER IF IT IS A PORCH, A SHOWER, A WHATEVER, IF THERE IS SQUARE FOOTAGE BEING ADDED UNDER A ROOF, IT HAS TO COME BEFORE THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION COMMISSION.

SO, UM, THESE ARE THE REAR ELEVATIONS, WHICH IS WHERE YOU WILL SEE IT.

THE MOST, THE REAR ELEVATION ON THE LEFT AGAIN IS THAT, WHICH IS, OR, UM, THE RENDERING AND TO THE ELEVATION BENEATH IT IS WHAT CURRENTLY EXISTS.

UM, AND THE ELEVATION ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE IS THE PROPOSED MODIFICATION TO THE STRUCTURE.

SO YOU CAN SEE THAT THERE IS THE ROOF OVERHANG HERE, THEY'VE CHANGED THE WINDOW THAT CURRENTLY EXISTS TO A FRENCH DOOR, AND THEY HAVE PROPOSED THIS SCREENING SO THAT THERE IS AN OUTDOOR SHOWER IN THIS SPACE.

THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE SEEN BEFORE.

WE'VE SEEN IT IN THIS NEIGHBORHOOD ACTUALLY BEFORE AS WELL.

SO, UM, I'M GOING THROUGH IT KIND OF FAST.

I AM HAPPY TO SLOW DOWN, GO BACKWARDS, DO WHATEVER YOU'D LIKE IN ORDER TO, UM, ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS YOU HAVE AGAIN, TOP ONE IS THE LEFT ELEVATION.

YOU CAN SEE BELOW HERE'S WHERE IT WILL SHOW ON THE LEFT SIDE.

YOU'VE GOT THE ROOF OVERHANG AS WELL AS THE PORCH, WHICH HAS THE SCREENING AROUND IT IN ORDER TO ALLOW FOR THAT SHOWER FROM THE RIGHT ELEVATION, YOU WILL KIND OF SEE IT, BUT IT IS BEHIND THE SCREEN PORCH.

SO YOU'LL SEE THE, UM, ROOF OVERHANG IS BEHIND THE UNHEATED UNCONDITIONED.

UNENCLOSED BREEZEWAY THAT ATTACHES TO THE CARRIAGE HOUSE, AS WELL AS THE SCREENING BEHIND IT.

AND THEN THEY HAVE PROVIDED THE SECTIONS D HOUSE FROM THE GARAGE.

THEY DID NOT PRO OH, THEY DID, BUT THIS INCLUDES THE GARAGE.

SO THEY PROVIDED THE REAR ELEVATION THAT YOU'RE GOING TO SEE IF YOU WERE STANDING BETWEEN THE CARRIAGE HOUSE AND THE HOUSE, BUT THIS IS IF YOU WERE STANDING ON THE STREET, UM, LOOKING AT THE BACK OF THE STRUCTURE.

SO IT IS PARTIALLY, UM, COVERED BY THE CARRIAGE HOUSE.

AND THEN YOU CAN SEE THE PORTION OF THE SCREENING.

YOU CAN SEE PORTION OF THE ROOF.

YOU CAN SEE THE FRENCH DOORS AS WELL AS THE STAIRS UP.

SO THIS IS KIND OF LIKE A NAUTILUS SHELL WHERE IT WRAPS AROUND.

SO WHOEVER IS STANDING ON THE STREET, IF THEY WERE STANDING WHERE MY MOUSE IS ON YOUR SCREEN, THEY WOULD NOT BE LOOKING AT SOMEBODY IN THAT OUTDOOR SHOWER.

THEY WOULD BE LOOKING AT A PANEL OF WALLS.

SO YOU CAN SEE ON THE SIDE PLAN HERE, HOW THAT KIND OF WRAPS AROUND.

SO THERE IS A PANEL AS WELL AS THE OTHER THING.

UM, THE LANDSCAPE PLAN, IT IS VERY MINIMAL BECAUSE THE LANDSCAPING FOR THIS SITE DOES EXIST.

THEY ARE NOT REMOVING ANYTHING EXCEPT FOR A COUPLE LITTLE SHRUBS, BUT THEY ARE PROPOSING TO ADD, UM, SIX, THREE GALLON ABIS, AS WELL AS, UM, I CAN'T READ THAT BECAUSE MY EYESIGHT IS GOING.

HOWEVER, THERE ARE A COUPLE OTHER PLANTINGS, I'M SORRY, SOME PLANTS, PLANTS, THEY ARE, THEY ARE SHRUBS, THEY'RE GROUND COVER.

SO THAT IS ALL THAT'S BEING ADDED TO THE SITE.

NO TREES ARE BEING REMOVED.

NO OTHER CANOPY COVERAGE IS BEING ALTERED.

THE BE CONSIDERS THE SAME EIGHT REVIEW CRITERIA THAT ARE LOCATED IN SECTION 3, 18, 3 OF OUR UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT ORDINANCE.

WHEN THEY TAKE INTO CONSIDERATION AND APPLICATION FOR CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS AND THEY CAN APPROVE THE APPLICATION IS SUBMITTED BY THE APPLICANT, APPROVE THE APPLICATION WITH CONDITIONS OR DENY THE APPLICATION IS SUBMITTED BY THE APPLICANT TOWN STAFF FOUND THAT THE ONLY CONDITION THAT WE HAVE IS THAT A DETAIL SHOWING THE SEWER CONNECTION FOR THE OUTDOOR SHOWER NEEDS TO BE PROVIDED TO WATERSHED MANAGEMENT.

THIS WAS SOMETHING THAT WAS ADDRESSED AT H PRC, BUT WE JUST DIDN'T HAVE THE DETAIL.

SO WE NEED TO SEE HOW THAT CONNECTS INTO THE, UM, SEWER CONNECTION BEFORE WE CAN ISSUE THE FINAL APPROVAL, BUT THERE ARE NO CHALLENGES WITH THE REST OF THE DESIGN CRITERIA.

THE APPLICANT IS HERE TO SPEAK ON IT.

ANY ISSUES WITH THE, UH, CONNECTION.

REMEMBER THAT WAS A DISCUSSION, BUT WASN'T THERE SOME DISCUSSION THAT YOU WERE GONNA CONNECT THIS CORRECT? OR WASN'T THERE, WE'RE WAITING FOR, UH, FEEDBACK FROM CODE OFFICIAL.

LET'S SEE WHAT THE BEST WAY, IF WE GONE EACH WAY, AND WE'LL FIND DOING THAT AS A STAFF LEVEL APPROVAL, IS THIS STATE, IS THERE A CODE THAT STATES THAT OUTDOOR SHOWERS MUST BE CONNECTED TO A SEWER? THAT'S THE ONE.

SO THAT'S WHAT I THOUGHT WE DISCUSSED.

AND I THOUGHT THERE WAS SOMETHING THAT YOU GUYS WERE UNCOVERING THAT YOU'RE GONNA DO THIS KATHLEEN DUNCAN, JK TILLER.

UM, WE HAD DISCUSSED DOING AN INFILTRATION BASIN UNDERNEATH.

AND SO THERE WAS AN INTERNAL EMAIL THAT WENT THROUGH TALKING ABOUT THAT, UM, WITH SOME KIND OF PRELIMINARY DISCUSSIONS WHERE WE DID NOT ENCOUNTER ANY, UH, NEGATIVE FEEDBACK REGARDING THAT WE JUST NEED TO ACTUALLY PROVIDE THE DETAIL SO THAT THEY CAN REVIEW THAT AS A PART OF THIS.

SO WE NEED TO POSSIBLY INCORPORATE THAT INTO OUR MOTION.

IF WE MAKE A MOTION THAT NOT ONLY YOU HAVE THE ABILITY TO CONNECT THE SHOWER OR WHATEVER YOU CALLED IT, BASIN STAND FILTRATION BASIN.

THAT'S ANOTHER POSSIBILITY IF IT'S ALLOWED MR. CHECK WATERSHED, OR IF I MIGHT SUGGEST JUST ALTERING THE LANGUAGE, PROVIDING DETAIL, SHOWING THE CONNECTION FOR THE OUTDOOR SEWER FOR WATERSHED MANAGEMENT REVIEW THAT WOULD ALLOW THEM TO DO IT.

[01:55:01]

HOWEVER WATERSHED SEES FIT.

THEY DO HAVE THE STORM WATER MANUAL THAT THEY HAVE TO ABIDE BY.

UM, SO IF IT IS SOMETHING THAT IS AN ALTERNATE TO CONNECTION TO THE SEWER, BUT STILL MANAGES TO INFILTRATE THAT.

SO IT'S NOT AN ILLICIT DISCHARGE.

IF YOU JUST TAKE OUT THE WORD SEWER FROM THAT PROVIDED, UM, RECOMMENDATION, IT WOULD MEET THE INTENT THERE.

AND THAT'S WHAT I REMEMBER FROM THE PRC.

SO I, I WOULD HOPE THAT WE INCORPORATE THAT INTO OUR MOTION.

AND THEY, THEY INTERPRETED THE, UM, THE WATER COMING OFF OF THE OUTDOOR SHOWER, SIMILARLY, AS YOU WOULD WASHING A CAR IN YOUR DRIVEWAY.

SO THEY DID NOT DETERMINE THAT I RECALL THAT EMAIL.

SO AGAIN, THE WORDING NEEDS TO BE WORDED IN THAT MANNER SO THAT IT'S ALLOWING THEM TO DO EITHER OR IN I'VE BEEN THERE.

AND I DON'T KNOW IF YOU GUYS COMMENT, THIS IS THE MOST OVERQUALIFIED OUTDOOR SHOWER.

IT IS JUST, FYI IS CHRIS USED TO BE CRAZY PLANS.

CHRIS USED TO BE THE CHAIR OF THIS COMMITTEE.

SO JUST, I WAS THINKING, GETTING THE CIVIL ENGINEER TO PROVIDE THAT, JUST THOUGHT THAT WE HAD THAT.

SO ANYWAY, JUST, I, YOU KNOW, I THINK FOR STAFF LEVEL, THAT'S BEEN SLAMMED AT WORK I FAULT.

OKAY, THANKS.

SO I GUESS I'M LOOKING FOR A MOTION.

I'LL MAKE A MOTIONS THAT WE APPROVE APPLICATIONS.

UM, YOU MIND THEM PROVIDING DETAILS, SHOWING THE CONNECTION FOR THE OUTDOOR SHOWER THAT WOULD ALLOW THEM TO PROCEED, HOWEVER, WATERSHED SEASON, UH, YOU NEED DISCUSSION ALL IN FAVOR.

BOY, THERE'S A LOT OF DRAWINGS FOR AN OUTSIDE SHOWER, ALL IN FAVOR.

YOU KNOW'S GOT THAT.

USE A LOT OF PRINTING CHAIR.

ALL RIGHT.

LOOKS LIKE, UH, WE

[IX. 3. Certificate of Appropriateness: A request by Pearce Scott Architects for approval of a Certificate of Appropriateness to allow the renovation and reconstruction of a 546 square foot single-family residence and Contributing Resource (Corinne Heyward Home) located at 3 Wharf Street, in the Old Town Bluffton Historic District and zoned Neighborhood General-HD. (COFA-05-22-016741) (Staff - Glen Umberger)]

HAVE GLEN UP NEXT.

MR. CHAIRMAN, MR. CHAIRMAN, WE HAVE A RECUSAL FOR ITEM NUMBER THREE.

UM, HEY.

I'M GONNA REC MYSELF.

STILL LEAVES US WITH A CORN.

CORRECT.

ALL RIGHT.

SORRY.

UM, AND IS THE APPLICANT HERE? YES.

YOU ARE ACTING AS THE APPLICANT.

HELLO.

AND IT LOOKS LIKE WE HAVE GLEN AS THE PRESENTER.

YES, SIR.

HELLO, GLEN.

GOOD EVENING, SIR.

UM, WE HAVE TONIGHT AN APPLICATION FOR A RENOVATION AND RECONSTRUCTION FOR NUMBER THREE WHARF STREET.

I HAVE SOMETHING TO BREAK IT JUST FOR YOU.

UM, UNDER 3 18 3, A CONSISTENCY WITH THE SECRETARY OF INTERIOR STANDARDS, UM, STANDARD NUMBER TWO STATES THAT IN PART, THE HISTORIC CHARACTER OF A PROPERTY SHALL BE RETAINED AND PRESERVED.

UM, THE APPLICANT IS LOOKING TO RENOVATE AND, UM, RECONSTRUCT THE 546 SQUARE FOOT CONTRIBUTING RESOURCE.

WE KNOW AS THE COR HAYWARD HOME OR NUMBER THREE WHARF STREET WERE ALSO KNOWN AS THE LITTLE GREENHOUSE ON THE CORNER AND THE OLD TOWN LEFT AND HISTORIC DISTRICT AND ZONE NEIGHBOR GENERAL HD, UH, FOR YOUR REFERENCES, THE LOCATION MAP, UH, SOUTH EAST CORNER, UH, WAR STREET, MAY RIVER ROAD, UM, ACROSS FROM THE WATERSHED BUILDING, WHICH YOU ALL KNOW FROM, UH, PREVIOUS HPC MEDIA, UM, CURRENT SITE PLAN, UM, THE HOUSE ON THE LOT FACING WAR STREET, UM, HISTORIC PHOTOGRAPH AS THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION IS I LIKE TO THROW THESE IN HERE.

UH, THIS IS FROM THE 2008, UM, HISTORIC RESOURCE SURVEY, UM, SHOWING THE HOUSE, UM, IN A LITTLE BIT BETTER CONDITION.

UM, AND THEN CURRENT CONDITIONS, THIS, THIS WAS A JANUARY OF THIS YEAR, UM, FRONT ELEVATION SIDE, ELEVATION, REAR ELEVATION, AND THE, UM, SOUTHERN ELEVATION OF THE HOUSE.

UM, IN MARCH WE PHOTOGRAPHED SHOWING THE FRONT PORCH.

AND IF YOU WERE CURIOUS ABOUT WHAT THE INSIDE LOOKS LIKE, THAT'S THE INSIDE LOOKING, UM, FROM THE FRONT DOOR LOOKING EAST.

SO TONIGHT, UM, YOU'RE TO CONSIDER EIGHT REVIEW CRITERIA SET FORTH IN SECTION THREE POINT 18.3, THAT UD, UM, FURTHERMORE, YOU HAVE THE AUTHORIZATION TO, UM, APPROVE THE APPLICATION AS SUBMITTED, UM, APPROVE WITH CONDITIONS OR DENY THE APPLICATION AS SUBMITTED BY THE APPLICANT.

UM, UNDER THE RELEVANT REVIEW CAREER.

THERE'S ONLY TWO THINGS THAT CAUSE CONCERN WITH, WITH STAFF.

[02:00:01]

UM, THE REMOVAL OF HISTORICAL MATERIALS SHALL BE AVOIDED.

UM, ALL HISTORIC MATERIALS WILL NEED TO BE EVALUATED AND REPAIRED OR REPLACED WITH LIKE IN KIND AS NEEDED ANY HISTORIC MATERIALS, WHICH WILL BE, WOULD NEED TO BE IDENTIFIED IN THE BUILDING PERMIT DRAWINGS FOR COMPLIANCE.

UM, SECOND UNDER 3 18, 3 C UM, THE APPLICATION MUST BE IN CONFORMANCE WITH THE APPLICABLE PROVISIONS PROVIDED IN ARTICLE FIVE DESIGN STANDARDS.

UM, IN SECTION 5 15, 6 H UM, PORCH COLUMNS ARE REQUIRED TO BE SIX INCHES MINIMUM WITH OR WITHOUT CAPITALS AND BASES.

UM, THE ELEVATIONS PROPOSED ARE FOR BY FOUR COLUMNS, WHICH IS ACTUALLY WAS THERE NOW, UM, WHILE THIS DOES NOT MEET THE REQUIREMENT OF THE UDO TOWN STAFF FINDS THAT THE EXISTING COLUMNS SHOULD BE REPLICATED TO CLOSE TO, UM, AS CLOSE TO PROVISIONS ALLOWED IN THE BUILDING CODE.

AND IT'S CLOSE TO WHAT THEY LOOK LIKE NOW.

UM, BUT THAT'S A HPC FINAL DETERMINATION OF APPROPRIATENESS OF THAT REDUCED COLUMN SIZE.

SO WE NEED TO ADDRESS THAT IF SOMEBODY'S MAKING A MOTION, WE NEED TO ADDRESS THAT AS EITHER, EITHER ALLOWING OR DISALLOWING OR GOING TO THE SIX INCHES IF THAT'S SO THAT'S CORRECT.

NOTING IT.

UM, TO GIVE YOU A BETTER SENSE OF WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT WHEN WE'RE LOOKING AT COLUMN SIZE, THE PHOTOGRAPH ON THE LEFT, UM, CURRENT CONDITION, UM, THE DRAWING ON THE RIGHT SHOWS, THE DRAWING, UM, INDICATING THAT IT LOOKS SIMILAR, UM, WHICH IS WHAT AS THE HISTORIC PRESERVATION AS TALENT STAFF IS WHAT WE WOULD BE LOOKING FOR.

SO THE REDUCED FOUR REDUCED FOUR BY FOUR SIZE.

IT NEEDS TO BE NOTED.

THAT'S CORRECT.

UM, SO STAFF RECOMMENDATION, WE WOULD RECOMMEND THE HPC APPROVE THE APPLICATION WITH THE CONDITIONS THAT ANY MATERIALS WHICH REQUIRE REPLACEMENT WILL BE IDENTIFIED IN THE BUILDING PERMIT DRAWINGS, UM, COMPLIANCE PER SECTION 3 18 3 A AND WITH A DETERMINATION OF THE APPROPRIATENESS OF THE REDUCED PORCH COLUMNS FROM A SIX BY SIX, WHICH IS A REQUIREMENT BY THE UDO TO A FOUR BY FOUR PER SECTION OF THE 5 16, 6 H OF THE UDO.

I WILL TAKE ANY QUESTIONS THAT YOU MIGHT HAVE.

I HAVE A QUESTION FOR THE APPLICANT.

I'M LOOKING AT THE BACK PORCH AND IT LOOKS LIKE THERE'S LIKE A SUNBURST STAR OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT IN A CEILING.

WHAT IS THAT HERE? CAN WE LOOK AT SOME PICTURES OR NO, I DON'T KNOW.

I, I I'M, THIS IS JUST FOR MY OWN CURIOSITY.

IS THIS IN THE, THE PACKET? YES.

ON THE DRAWING ON THE FLOOR.

IT'S JUST KIND, IT'S JUST FOR MY OWN CURIOSITY.

IT'S LIKE, WHAT THE HECK IS THAT? IT'S A STARBURST LOOKING THING.

IS IT A FAN? IS IT A FAN? OH, THAT'S OH, THAT'S THE SERVICE.

CUZ IT LOOKED LIKE, YEAH.

THAT'S THE, JUST A, YOU JUST, YEAH, I KNOW, BUT YOU JUST DREW IT.

YOU JUST DREW IT.

LIKE I'VE NEVER SEEN IT DRAWN BEFORE.

THAT KEY THEY'RE ON LIKE EVERY SINGLE ONE OF OUR, WELL I KNOW, BUT I NEVER SEE IT AS A LITTLE FAN LIKE THAT.

THEY DON'T, BUT THAT'S JUST A TEMPLATE.

WE LIKE, IT'S JUST WHAT THE HECK.

DO YOU HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTION FOR THE APPLICANT WAS THAT WAS JUST FOR MY OWN.

THAT WAS FOR MY OWN CURIOSITY CUZ IT'S LIKE, OH WOW.

WHAT'S THAT? UM, DOES THE APPLICANT WANNA SAY ANYTHING ABOUT THIS PROJECT? THIS IS A CONTRIBUTING DIRECTOR FROM THE 1920S AND THE APPLICANT THAT'S BEEN IN HER FAMILY FOR ALMOST THAT LONG MM-HMM .

UM, AND IT'S JUST BEEN SITTING VACANT AND DETERIORATING.

THERE'S A LOT OF ROT.

UM, THERE ISN'T A WHOLE LOT SO ELIGIBLE, SO WE WANT TO SALVAGE AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE AND REUSE.

UM, WE HAVE FOUND A PLACE THAT, UM, DOES HAVE MATERIALS THAT THEY REPURPOSE SO WE CAN FIND SOME 1920S DECIDING TO REPLACE AREAS THAT IS ROTTED.

UM, SO WE FOUND A REALLY GREAT RESOURCE TO HELP FIND THOSE LIKE AND KIND MATERIALS.

UM, SO THEY JUST WANT TO BE ABLE TO HAVE THIS AS THEIR LITTLE FAMILY COTTAGE AND VIBRANT.

AGAIN, TWO BEDROOMS WE DID HAVE ON THE BACK A NEW EDITION, WHICH IS THE BATHROOMS BECAUSE CURRENTLY THEY'RE IN THEIR BATHROOMS. I SAW THE ONE PICTURE, HAD A BUCKET IN THE FRONT.

SO THE FRONT PORCH HAS, IS CURRENTLY ON TREE STUMPS.

SO THAT'S NOT QUITE, UM, WORKING OUT.

IT HAS A WHOLE, THE TREE IS SO WE BASICALLY NEED TO DECONSTRUCT IT, PUT IT BACK TOGETHER, USE AS MANY MATERIALS AS POSSIBLE AND THEN FIND LIKE, LIKE, AND KIND MATERIALS TO HELP FILL IN ALL THE VOIDS AND GAPS ABOUT A PROJECT.

IT'S QUITE A PROJECT.

[02:05:01]

AND IT'S, UM, NOT THAT IT MATTERS TO YOU OR YOU CAN'T RULE ON, BUT IT ISN'T QUITE A FINANCIAL BURDEN.

UM, FOR THE TOWN IS GOING TO ALLOW SOMETHING WITH THE NEW RULES, ROADS.

THEY'RE NOT CURRENT AT THIS POINT.

THERE'S NO, THERE'S BEEN NO, UM, GRANT APPLICATION MADE.

BUT IT, IT WOULD BE ALLOWED IF THEY PROCEED FOR, WITH IT IN THIS MANNER.

WE NEED THE, GRANT'S NOT ON THE TABLE RIGHT NOW FOR US.

WE'RE NOT, WE'RE NOT LOOKING AT THAT RIGHT NOW.

INTERESTING.

OR TAKE THAT OFF OF THE BRAIN.

JUST ASKING PRESENTS MR. GRANT OVER THERE.

ALL RIGHT.

UH, DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY DISCUSSIONS ON THIS PROJECT? LOOKS LIKE IT WOULD BE GREAT TO SEE THIS HAPPEN INSTEAD OF MELTING INTO THE GROUND.

I APPLAUD THE INDIVIDUAL FOR MOTION EMPTY.

I MOVED TO APPROVE, UM, TO RENOVATE AND RECONSTRUCT THE CONTRIBUTING RESOURCE AS CORRIN HAYWARD HOME AT THREE WHARF STREET, SUBJECT TO THE CONDITIONS THAT ANY HISTORIC MATERIALS WHICH REQUIRE REPLACEMENT WILL BE IDENTIFIED IN THE BUILDING PERMIT DRAWINGS FOR COMPLIANCE AND THAT THE PROPOSED FOUR BY FOUR FROM PORT COLUMNS ARE APPROPRIATE.

GOT A SECOND FURTHER DISCUSSION.

NO FURTHER DISCUSSION.

SO THEREFORE I'M LOOKING FOR A VOTE ALL IN FAVOR.

AYE.

OPPOSED.

LOOKS LIKE WE'RE UNANIMOUSLY APPROVED IT.

THANKS.

SO, HEY, YOU KNOW, YOU GOING GOT, YOU'VE GOT YOUR DRAWINGS COMPLETED.

OH'S THE LASTS NOT ON IN THE STRUCTURE WORLD RIGHT NOW.

SO THAT'S PROBABLY ITSELF THANK YOU FOR YOUR INPUT AS ALWAYS ANOTHER, UH, SITUATION AND YOU KNOW, REGARDS TO THAT OBJECTIVE NUMBER OR DISCUSSION AND THAT'S, YOU KNOW, SOMETHING THAT WE JUST, WE APPRECIATE YOU BEING HERE FOR THOSE SITUATIONS.

WELL, THANKS.

THANK YOU MR. CHAIRMAN.

THAT'S ALWAYS A ALWAYS PLEASURE TO BE WITH YOU.

WELL BOY THAT'S.

YEAH, WE'RE RIGHT.

WELL, LET'S SEE WITH THAT.

I'M LOOKING FOR ANOTHER TYPE OF MOTION THAT WE ALL LIKE TO HEAR AND WHO'S GONNA MAKE THAT OUR MOTION THAT WE ADUR THIS MEETING, I'M LOOKING FOR A SECOND, SECOND.

ALL IN FAVOR OR ANY DISCUSSION? NO DISCUSSIONS.

IT LOOKS LIKE IT'S 8 0 8.