[00:00:09]
[I. CALL TO ORDER]
COMMISSION, SPECIAL MEETING TO ORDER THIS TUESDAY, AUGUST THE SECOND AT FOUR 30.MAY I HAVE A ROLL CALL PLEASE? CHAIRMAN AMANDA DENMARK HERE.
VICE CHAIRMAN, CHARLIE WETMORE HERE.
COMMISSIONER KATHLEEN DUNCAN, COMMISSIONER JIM FLOOD FISHER.
LYDIA DEPAUL, MR. RICH DELCOR COMMISSIONER, JASON STEWART.
I HOPE WE DON'T HAVE THIS PROBLEM.
THE PLANNING COMMISSION WILL NOT HEAR NEW ITEMS AFTER NINE 30, UNLESS, UNLESS AUTHORIZED BY MAJORITY VOTE OF THE COMMISSION MEMBERS, PRESENT ITEMS, WHICH HAVE NOT BEEN HEARD BEFORE NINE 30 MAY BE CONTINUED TO THE NEXT REGULAR MEETING OR A SPECIAL MEETING DATE AS DETERMINED BY THE COMMISSION MEMBERS NOTICE REGARDING PUBLIC COMMENTS.
EVERY MEMBER OF THE PUBLIC WHO IS RECOGNIZED TO SPEAK SHALL ADDRESS THE CHAIRMAN.
AND IN SPEAKING, AVOID DISRESPECT TO COMMISSION, STAFF, AND OTHER MEMBERS OF THE MEETING, STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS.
AND SPEAKING FOR THE RECORD COMMENTS ARE LIMITED TO THREE MINUTES.
[V. ADOPTION OF THE AGENDA]
AN ADOPTION OF THE AGENDA, PLEASE? AND THERE HAVE A SECOND, SECOND, ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION? ALL IN FAVOR.ARE THERE ANY PUBLIC COMMENTS FOR ITEMS NOT ON THE AGENDA? ALL OF THEM ARE FOR THE AGENDA.
DO WE HAVE ANY OLD BUSINESS? DO WE HAVE ANY NEW BUSINESS? WE JUST HAVE DISCUSSION
[IX.1. Workshop to Discuss the Land Use and Housing Elements for Blueprint Bluffton, an Update Long-range Comprehensive Plan for the Town of Bluffton – Charlotte Moore, Principal Planner]
NUMBER ONE WORKSHOP TO DISCUSS THE LAND USE AND HOUSING ELEMENTS FROM BLUEPRINT, BLUFFTON AND UPDATE LONG RANGE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN FOR THE TOWN OF BLUFFTON.CHARLOTTE, WOULD YOU PLEASE START THE PRESENTATIONS OR INTRODUCTION? THANK YOU.
UH, ONCE AGAIN, WE'RE GOING TO REVIEW TWO CHAPTERS OR ELEMENTS OF OUR DRAFT COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AND THE DISCUSSION WILL BE LED BY KYLE MAY, OUR CONSULTANT FROM M K S K UM, ALL THE WAY IN COLUMBUS, OHIO.
UH, THANKS EVERYBODY JUST REALLY QUICKLY.
WELL, UH, WE'LL GO AHEAD AND GET STARTED HERE.
UH, UH, WANT TO THANK EVERYBODY AGAIN FOR THIS, UM, THIS TIME AS WE'VE, UH, YOU KNOW, BEGIN TO TOUR AND WORK OUR WAY THROUGH, UM, THROUGH THE OVERALL PLAN, UH, AND REMEMBER QUICKLY WE'VE GET, UH, UM, UH, UH, UH, 10 ELEMENTS THAT ARE INCLUDED IN THE WORK THAT WE'RE DOING.
10 CATEGORIES, WE'VE TRAVERSED, UH, FOUR OF THOSE SO FAR GATHERED GREAT NOTES, I THINK FROM YOU ALL, BOTH IN TERMS OF YOUR PDF COMMENTS THAT YOU'VE LEFT.
UH, AND IN TERMS OF THE CONVERSATION, UH, TODAY WE WANT TO TACKLE A COUPLE OF, UM, UH, BIG IN ANY IN PRETTY IMPORTANT, UM, UH, CHAPTERS WITHIN THE PLAN, TALKING ABOUT HOUSING AND LAND, USE TWO VERY INTERRELATED TOPICS, AS I THINK YOU'VE SEEN, UH, AND, AND UNDERSTAND THROUGH YOUR WORK, UH, THERE WITH THE COMMISSION, UH, INTERESTED TO DIVE IN, I THINK, UH, WITH YOU ALL AND WITH SOME DISCUSSION AROUND THESE CHAPTERS AND ALSO, UM, UH, TALKING A LITTLE BIT DIRECTLY ABOUT SOME OF THE COMMENTS THAT I'VE RECEIVED FROM YOU, UH, FROM STAFF AND WAY WE CAN ITERATE EACH OF THESE CHAPTERS MOVING FORWARD.
SO LIKE PREVIOUS MEETINGS, I'D LIKE TO START, JUST DO A QUICK SCREEN SHARE, UM, GO OVER OUR AGENDA AND THEN VERY QUICKLY TRANSITION AND OPEN UP FOR SOME, UH, DISCUSSION HERE, UH, WITH THE GROUP.
UH, REMEMBER WE'VE GOT ANOTHER MEETING COMING UP HERE, UH, IN THURSDAY ON THURSDAY WHERE WE'RE GOING TO BE TALKING ABOUT NATURAL RESOURCES, UH, AND RESILIENCY, REMEMBER RESILIENCY AS A NEW CHAPTER.
UM, THIS, UH, THIS GO AROUND, UH, IN TERMS OF OUR COMPREHENSIVE PLANNING EFFORT, BUT TONIGHT WE'RE REALLY FOCUSED ON LAND USE.
UH, AND AS I MENTIONED ON HOUSING, JUST A QUICK REMINDER, UH, THOSE OF YOU THAT MIGHT BE TUNING IN FROM THE PUBLIC WITH EACH OF THESE SESSIONS, WE, UH, LOOKING TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT, UM, SOME OF THE COMMENTS THAT WE'VE RECEIVED THUS FAR PROVIDE A BRIEF SUMMARY OF THOSE COMMENTS, HAVE SOME DISCUSSION AROUND SOME KEY AREAS WITHIN EACH OF THE CHAPTERS AND ULTIMATELY ARRIVE AT SOME ACTIONS, UM, UH, A PATHWAY TO ADDRESS REVISE, AND IS THE KEY WORD I USED ITERATE, UM, UH, THIS, THIS DOCUMENT, UH, THE PLAN, UH, MOVING CLOSER AND CLOSER, UH, UM, UH, UH, TO, UH, TO, TO OUR FINAL, UH, PIECE OF WORK.
SO, UM, IN TERMS OF OUR OVERALL AGENDA REALLY QUICKLY, JUST IN TERMS OF, WE'VE GOT AUGUST 4TH COMING UP OFFSETS IN A COUPLE OF DAYS, BUT ALSO OUR FINAL SESSION TOGETHER, UH, IN THIS SERIES ON AUGUST 10TH, WHERE WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT ECONOMICS AND THAT CLOSING CHAPTER TWO, THE OVERALL PLAN, WHICH IS THAT PRIORITY IN INVESTMENTS, THIS SECTION.
SO LOOKING FORWARD TO EACH OF THOSE, WITH YOU ALL QUICKLY, BEFORE WE DO JUMP INTO THIS, I JUST WANT TO LET YOU KNOW THAT, YOU KNOW, WE'VE NOT BEEN SITTING ON OUR HANDS, I THINK SINCE OUR PREVIOUS DISCUSSION.
SO WE'RE WORKING HARD TO INTEGRATE YOUR COMMENTS ON THOSE PREVIOUS FOUR CHAPTERS, UH, QUITE A BIT THAT WAS SHARED
[00:05:01]
IN SOME GOOD CONVERSATION AS WELL.SO BASED ON THOSE PROPOSED ACTIONS AND INDEED WORKING WITH STAFF, UH, WE'RE, WE'RE WORKING TO DEVELOP THE NEXT ROUND, UM, OR EACH OF THOSE, UH, CHAPTERS, UH, AS WE WORK THROUGH EACH OF THESE CONVERSATIONS.
SO WE'RE NOT NECESSARILY WAITING.
I NEED TO GET THROUGH THE FULL 10 TO THEN START AT THE BEGINNING AND MAKE THE CHANGES.
UH, WE'RE REALLY JUMPING INTO THIS.
SO I WANT TO BEGIN TONIGHT'S CONVERSATION AGAIN WITH YOUR PERMISSION, UH, WITH SOME DISCUSSION AROUND, UH, YOU KNOW, LAND USE, OBVIOUSLY THIS IS QUITE A CRITICAL, UM, YOU KNOW, CHAPTER, UH, NOT JUST, UH, FOR THIS PLAN, BUT ALSO FOR YOUR WORK, UH, YOU KNOW, MOVING FORWARD.
YOU'LL REMEMBER THAT IN OUR PREVIOUS, UM, UH, SESSIONS, UH, WE'VE GOT THREE KIND OF CATEGORIES OF COMMENTS THAT I WANT TO UPLIFT.
AND THEN YOU KIND OF UNPACK AND DISCUSS AS PART OF THIS WORK, UH, STARTING FROM THE LOWEST AND GOING UP, YOU KNOW, SIMPLE COMMENTS FOR NUMBER, THOSE ARE THINGS THAT WE'VE NOTICED AS, AS RECURRING THEMES IN THIS CHAPTER, WE'RE GOING TO ADDRESS, WE FEEL THAT WE'VE GOT THE DIRECTION FROM THOSE COMMENTS TO BE ABLE TO ADDRESS THEM WITHOUT A WHOLE LOT OF DISCUSSION.
WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU ARE AWARE THAT WE'VE DOCUMENTED THAT WE'RE GOING TO MOVE FORWARD.
WE'RE GOING TO MAKE THAT CHANGE SUBJECTIVE PIECES.
THOSE ARE AREAS WHERE EITHER FROM SOME DISCUSSION WITH YOU ALL, UH, OR DISCUSSION WITH STAFF OR STAKEHOLDERS, FOR THAT MATTER, WE COULD USE A LITTLE BIT OF HELP JUST ON THE PERSPECTIVE, POINT OF VIEW, LEVEL OF ALTITUDE, WHATEVER IT MIGHT BE, YOU KNOW, FOR THAT PARTICULAR SET OF COMMENTS.
SO WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THOSE WERE UPLIFTED HERE.
WE HAVE SOME DISCUSSION AND LAST, BUT ABSOLUTELY NOT LEAST ARE THE SUBSTANTIAL PIECES.
THEN THAT JUST MEANS THAT THOSE ARE COMMENTS THAT WE PERCEIVE.
THERE'S SOME RESIDENTS AROUND THOSE COMMENTS.
A FEW PEOPLE HAVE MENTIONED THEM WHERE AS A GROUP, WE WANT TO SHARPEN OUR PENCILS, GO BACK IN AND DO SOME, SOME GOOD EDITING, SOME GOOD ADDITIONS.
SO THE GOOD WORK TO ADDRESS, UH, WHAT IS A LACKING COMPONENT WITHIN THE CHAPTER THAT YOU HAVE IDENTIFIED THUS FAR? SO, YOU KNOW, W WITH THAT SAID, UM, YOU KNOW, THE LAND USE CHAPTER COVERS, UH, QUITE A BIT OF GROUND.
UM, OBVIOUSLY WE'RE TALKING ABOUT WHAT IS LITERALLY ON THE GROUND, YOU KNOW, TODAY IN TERMS OF EXISTING, UH, CONDITIONS, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT DEVELOPMENT PATTERNS, WE'RE TALKING A LITTLE BIT ABOUT SOME OF THE PECULIARITIES OF, OF YOUR COMMUNITY, NOT NECESSARILY WITH AROUND THE LOW COUNTRY, BUT IN TERMS OF AROUND THE COUNTRY, AS IT RELATES TO PLAN DEVELOPMENT, THAT'S OCCURRED OVER THE ERAS OF, OF GROWTH AND DEVELOPMENT, UH, IN, IN THE TOWN.
UH, BUT WE'RE ALSO PROVIDING SOME THOUGHTS AROUND THE FUTURE LAND USE, UH, YOU KNOW, FUTURE LAND USE MAP, THINKING ABOUT THE, UM, UH, GROWTH FRAMEWORK, UH, IN, IN HOW THAT IS ARTICULATED IN TERMS OF, OF POLICY MOVING FORWARD AND IN, IN LAST, BUT NOT LEAST ALSO, UM, TAKING SOME LIBERTIES AND ZOOMING IN ON A COUPLE OF AREAS WHERE WE THINK THERE'S, UH, EITHER PARTICULAR INTEREST, WE'VE RECEIVED COMMENTS ABOUT THESE AREAS AND TRYING TO THINK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, WHETHER IT'S POLICY OR IS INDEED PROJECT, YOU KNOW, WHAT IS THE RIGHT NEXT CHAPTER, UH, OR CONTINUED, UH, INVESTMENT FOR, FOR THESE PARTICULAR AREAS.
AND THEN LIKE ALL CHAPTERS WHERE THIS GETS BACK TO THE KIND OF THE REGULAR RHYTHM.
WE HAVE OUR ACTION AGENDA, YOU KNOW, AT THE END.
UM, SO WITH THAT, I WANTED TO INTRODUCE, UH, WE DIDN'T HAVE A WHOLE LOT OF COMMENTS IN, IN EITHER OF THESE CHAPTERS HERE DAY, BUT I WAS HOPING, YOU KNOW, TO HAVE SOME DISCUSSION, EVEN IN, JUST AROUND THE TOPIC TO SEE IF, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE SOME KEY ISSUES OR TRENDS THAT YOU'D LIKE TO, FOR SURE, FOR ME TO UPLIFT IN THE WORK, UM, WITHIN LAND USE ONE OF THE KEY THINGS I THINK THAT WAS REFLECTED BY YOUR COMMENTS IS THE IDEA THAT WE ARE SOURCING, UM, UM, IMAGES, UH, WITHIN THE CHAPTER, UH, EITHER THAT ARE WITHIN THE COMMUNITY TODAY OR THAT ACCURATELY REFLECT, UM, THE KIND OF THE CHARACTER, THE SCALE AND MASSING, THE ARCHITECTURE OF THE TYPE OF COMMUNITY BLUFFTON, MAYBE FIVE YEARS, 10 YEARS ON, UM, FROM TODAY.
I THINK A BIG QUESTION THOUGH, THAT COMES TO MIND AS WE, UM, ADDRESS THAT PIECE AND THAT THIS IS A BIT SUBJECTIVE, AND I'M GOING TO PUT IT BACK TO YOU FOR SOME DISCUSSION IS THINKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, WHAT, WHAT ARE THE RIGHT BENCHMARK COMMUNITIES OR ASPIRATIONAL COMMUNITIES, IF IT'S NOT AN IMAGE THAT COMES FROM SELF REFERENCE, MEANING THERE'S AN EXAMPLE OF THAT TYPE OF DEVELOPMENT PATTERN IN BLUFFTON TODAY, I'D BE INTERESTED IF THERE'S ANY COMMUNITIES RIGHT NOW THAT YOU ALL AS LEADERS KIND OF LOOK TO AND SAY, THEY'RE DOING SOMETHING RIGHT.
YOU KNOW, THERE'S SOMETHING ABOUT THE WAY THEY OPERATE THE ARCHITECTURE, WHATEVER IT MIGHT BE THAT YOU'VE HEARD MAYBE FROM CONSTITUENTS OR FROM OTHER COMMUNITY MEMBERS, UM, YOU KNOW, THAT, THAT, THAT OUGHT TO BE REFLECTED IN THIS PLAN.
ANY THOUGHTS ON, ON THAT COMMENT? I HATE TO PUT IT THIS WAY, BUT THAT'S A GREAT QUESTION THAT I WISH WE HAD THOUGHT TO ASK LAST WEEK.
I'D BE MORE THAN HAPPY TO BE PREPARED TO ANSWER THAT AT THE NEXT MEETING, A MODEL
[00:10:01]
COMMUNITY, THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING WE'D BE LIKE, BUT I MEAN, TRYING TO THINK OF IT OFF THE CUFF OR DIFFERENT THAN LIKE JUST A COOKIE CUTTER COMMUNITY OR A NEW AGE.I MEAN, WE HAVE A MIXTURE OF DIFFERENT CHARACTERISTICS AND STYLES.
I MEAN, IT'S ALL SOUTHERN LOW COUNTRY, BUT THEN THERE'S THINGS ARE GOING TO SOME OF THE MORE LOW COUNTRY MODERN.
I MEAN, THERE'S ALL DIFFERENT REALMS OF IT.
SO I DON'T THINK THERE'S A SPECIFIC DEVELOPMENT PATTERN THAT WE'RE NO, BUT I, I WONDER IF THERE ARE COMMUNITIES THAT ARE OF KIND OF A MIXTURE OF OLD HISTORIC, BUT THEY'RE DEVELOPING GROWTH AROUND THEM.
LIKE WE ARE LIKE, I HAVEN'T BEEN TO, AND MAYBE YOU HAVE LYDIA LIKE ROSEMARY BEACH, THAT AREA.
CAUSE I KNOW THAT THEY HAVE A LOT OF INTERESTING BEACH, UM, SOUTHERN ARCHITECTURE AND DIFFERENT STYLES OF DIFFERENT REGIONS.
THERE'S A COUPLE PLACES IN FLORIDA THAT HAVE SOME INTERESTING AND WELL-DESIGNED SEASIDE.
UM, I WOULD SAY FOR ME, SOME OF THE ISSUES WITH THE IMAGES ARE LIKE THE ESTATE LOT.
FOR EXAMPLE, IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ONE UNIT PER ACRE OR ONE UNIT, IDEALLY PER THREE ACRES, AND LET'S SHOW A HOME ON SOME LAND, THAT'S NOT DIRECTLY AT THE STREET AND ISN'T JUST A FRONT FACING GARAGE, SUBURBAN COULD HAVE BEEN BUILT ANYWHERE IN THE COUNTRY.
UM, I THINK SOME OF THE IMAGES IN THE MORE COMMERCIAL AREAS ARE MORE OF A CITY SCALE.
SO EVEN JUST FINDING IMAGES THAT ARE, UM, APPROPRIATE WITH WHAT WE'VE DONE, EITHER IN THE PROMENADE OR IN BOOK WALTER OR KIND OF THOSE TYPE, WE'RE TRYING TO KEEP EVERYTHING PEDESTRIAN FOCUSED.
AND, UM, JUST SCALE OF SOME OF THE IMAGES FEELS OFF.
I THINK THERE'S ALSO, I'M SURE SOME COMMUNITIES ARE ON CHARLESTON AND OTHER SOUTH CAROLINA LOCATIONS, UM, PLACES AROUND SAVANNAH.
I MEAN, FOR EXACT REFERENCES, I DON'T HAVE THEM AT THE MOMENT, BUT, UM, I THINK THAT THE ARCHITECTURAL CHARACTERISTICS WOULD BE FROM THE SOUTHERN COASTAL TOWNS.
AND SOME OF THESE IMAGES JUST ARE LIKE, YOU KNOW, FROM ANYWHERE.
SO IT NEEDS TO BE MORE REPRESENTATIVE OF THAT BECAUSE THAT'S KIND OF THE GROWTH TO OFF OF THE COAST AND IT KIND OF GOES OUTWARD.
SO IT'S GOING TO BE THAT MORE COASTAL FEEL THE CLOSER.
AND THEN, YOU KNOW, AS YOU GRADUALLY GO OUT, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE SOME OTHER STYLES MIXED INTO IT, BUT IT'S NOT GOING TO BE LIKE THAT SUBURBAN MIDDLE AMERICA WELL DOWN IN A NEIGHBORHOOD, KIND OF FEEL SURE THAT THAT MAKES A LOT OF SENSE.
I THINK GANG AND, AND, AND, YOU KNOW, I DO APPRECIATE THE COMMENT ABOUT, YOU KNOW, BEING PREPARED A LITTLE BIT MORE TO ANSWER THIS QUESTION.
I JUST WANT TO ENSURE ALL YOU, I THINK TRYING TO OPEN UP SOME DISCUSSION HERE TONIGHT.
SO, YOU KNOW, I THINK ON TO THAT POINT, YOU KNOW, IF THERE ARE SORT OF SPECIFIC EXAMPLES, I THINK THAT YOU'D LIKE TO SEE REFLECT, ESPECIALLY WHEN WE THINK ABOUT SOME OF THESE ASPIRATIONAL CHARACTER TYPES, UM, YOU KNOW, THAT'S GOING TO BE HELPFUL.
I THINK WHAT I'M HEARING THOUGH, THIS IDEA OF OLD AND NEW SOMEONE MENTIONED SEASIDE IN THERE, WHICH IS, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY A, A CONTRIVED PLACE, RIGHT.
BUT IT HAS A FEELING OF, OF, OF HISTORY.
UM, BUT ALSO THINKING AROUND THE LOW COUNTRY, SOUTH CAROLINA, AND WHAT IS GOING ON ON THE COAST.
UH, I THINK ONE OF THE AREAS WHERE WE CERTAINLY MISSED THE MARK IN THAT SECTION HAS TO DO WITH THE COMMERCIAL CHARACTER REPRESENTATION.
I HEAR THAT COMMENT LOUD AND CLEAR THAT WE CAN WORK HARDER.
AND THERE ARE PLENTY OF PRECEDENT, UH, YOU KNOW, UH, DEVELOPMENTS, I THINK THAT ARE BOTH AT SCALE, BUT ALSO I THINK REFLECT SOME OF THE, UM, ATTENTION TO DETAIL WHEN IT COMES TO MATERIALS, UH, AMASSING AESTHETICS, UM, UH, VISUAL COMPLEXITY.
UM, AND, AND AT THE SAME TIME, I THINK ALSO REFLECTS SOME OF THE, NOW I WANT TO SAY LAID BACK NATURE, BUT WE WE'VE DESCRIBED NO BLUFFTON OVER THESE SERIES OF MEETINGS IN A VERY SPECIFIC WAY.
UH, AND YOU KNOW, I THINK WHAT WE CAN DO WITHIN THAT CHAPTER, ESPECIALLY AS FINE COMMUNITIES THAT ALSO, YOU KNOW, PLAY IN THE SAME VERNACULAR, IF THAT MAKES ANY SENSE.
I MEAN, CAUSE EVEN, YOU KNOW, IN THE OLD TOWN DISTRICT VERSUS OUTSIDE OF OLD TOWN, THE OTHER PARTS AND BLUFFTON ALL OVER, UM, YOU KNOW, THE OLD TOWNS, COMMERCIAL SCALE IS QUITE DIFFERENT THAN ALL THE OTHER COMMERCIAL SKILLS AND IT'S NOT BIG BOX, IT'S NOT BIG METAL BUILDINGS.
IT'S MORE OF A, UH, PEDESTRIAN RESIDENTIAL SCALE VERSUS A LARGE MASSING.
AND SO LIKE EVEN IN THE PROMINENT, THEY'RE THE LARGEST BUILDINGS WE HAVE IN THEIR DOWNTOWN, BUT IT'S, BUT IT STILL HAS THE CORRECT SCALE.
AND IT'S JUST NOT LIKE SOME OF THESE PICTURES KIND OF LIKE A, JUST
[00:15:01]
A LARGE BLUNT, YOU KNOW, FLAT FACADE.I THINK THE OTHER NOTE I'VE TAKEN THIS IS, IS ALSO A LACK OF GRAIN IN SOME OF THOSE PHOTOS, RIGHT? IF YOU'RE ANYTHING AS A COMMUNITY, UM, EVEN IN SOME OF YOUR NEWER DEVELOPMENT, YOU, THERE IS A SIGNIFICANT, UM, UH, INVESTMENT LANDSCAPING, UH, IN ENSURING THAT THAT GREENPEACE REMAINS EVEN IF IT'S NEW DEVELOPMENT.
SO I THINK AS WE SHOW THESE, WE JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT IT DOESN'T LOOK LIKE THE KIND OF DENSITY OR MASSING THAT YOU MIGHT FIND IN A, UH, IN A PLACE WHERE THAT'S NOT A PRIORITY.
I ALSO NOTICED THAT, AND THAT GOES KIND OF BACK TO THEM, LIKE WHEN LYDIA'S TALKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, JUST GARAGES IN THE FRONT AND YES, THERE ARE NEIGHBORHOODS LIKE THAT, BUT IN GENERAL, LIKE IF WE CAN PRESERVE THE NATURE AND THE TREES, YOU KNOW, YOU DON'T WANT TO HAVE TO CLEAR, CUT EVERYTHING EITHER AND ENJOY THE BEAUTY OF WHAT WE HAVE.
SO I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S, SO THE IMAGERY, ISN'T JUST ALL, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU GET TO HOUSING, NOT, NOT TO SAY THAT YOU HAVE THAT, BUT, UM, THAT IT ISN'T ALL LIKE FRONT-FACING ONE AFTER THE OTHER COOKIE CUTTER THINGS THAT THERE ARE SOME UNIQUE CHARACTERISTICS.
AND EVEN IN SOME OF THE NEIGHBORHOODS, THEY'RE TRYING TO BE, UM, TO HAVE, UH, HAVE DIFFERENT FACADES THROUGHOUT AND TRYING TO INCORPORATE SOME OF THE LOW COST.
AND JUST BECAUSE WE HAVE A LOT OF PDS DOESN'T MEAN THAT IT'S ALL, UM, LITERALLY COOKIE CUTTER COPY PASTE.
SOME OF THE PLACES ARE LIKE THAT, BUT I DON'T THINK THAT'S A GOAL TO ASPIRE TO.
AND WE DO HAVE NEIGHBORHOODS WITH NPDS WHERE EVERYTHING, OR MANY THINGS ARE CUSTOM AND DIFFERENT AND FOCUSED ON, UM, THE SCALE AND THE MASSING AND THE DETAILING, AND A LOT LESS FOCUSED ON THE GARAGE DOORS AND A LOT MORE ON THE FRONT DOOR AND KIND OF WITH YARDS AND TREES AND OTHER THINGS TOO.
AND WE HAVE EXAMPLES OF THAT IN BLUFFTON, UM, THAT I'M SURE WE COULD GET FOR.
THAT'S ACTUALLY A REALLY GOOD POINT.
I THINK, AS WE THINK ABOUT THE, YOU KNOW, THE PLANT COMMUNITIES, ONE OF THE INTERESTING THINGS ABOUT THE PLANT COMMUNITIES IS, IS KIND OF THE ATTENTION TO DETAIL THAT YOU SEE, UM, EVEN AS COMPARED TO SOME, UM, UH, ATTRACT HOME DEVELOPMENT THAT WE HAVE MORE COMMONLY AROUND THE COUNTRY, UM, YOU KNOW, IN, IN DEVELOPING OUT THAT PLAN, A MASTER PLAN, YOU REALLY HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO CONSIDER, YOU KNOW, BUILDING A HOLISTIC NEIGHBORHOOD.
AND I THINK THAT THAT IS, UM, WE SEE THAT EXECUTING VERY LEVELS.
BUT THAT IS AN INTERESTING CHARACTER TYPE.
I THINK WE BRING UP THE PUD PIECE AS YOU GUYS WELL KNOW, JUST TO TALK ABOUT IT, YOU KNOW, WHAT PARTS OF THE COMMUNITY HAVE, YOU KNOW, MAYBE IT'S A LOWERCASE E BUT THEN ENTITLED MEANING LIKE WE HAVE BEEN THROUGH A PLANNING PROCESS, WE HAVE APPROVED A, A PLAN FOR THAT, FOR THAT WORK.
NOW THERE'S OBVIOUSLY THERE'S, THERE'S, UM, UH, UH, THERE'S ONGOING CHANGES THAT CAN OCCUR LONG-TERM UH, BUT I THINK WHAT WE BRING THAT UP IS JUST, AGAIN, IT'S AN AREA WHERE YOU'RE A BIT UNIQUE AND I THINK IN TERMS OF COMMUNICATING, UM, SOME OF THE KEY FACTS ABOUT COMMUNITY, ESPECIALLY WITH THE CONFINES OF THIS CHAPTER, JUST WE, WE VIEW IT AS CRITICAL TO BRING THAT UP.
UH, ONE ITEM THAT I WOULD BRING UP FROM A PREVIOUS DISCUSSION HAS TO DO WITH THE NATURE OF THE PLANNING AREA, UH, PER SE, UH, MEANING THAT THAT LASTS.
SO, UM, THAT WE WERE, UM, DOING, UH, YOU KNOW, OUR RESEARCH AND WORK AROUND.
SO I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT YOU'RE STILL AWARE THAT THOSE COMMENTS ARE CAPTURED BY OUR TEAM.
AND I THINK WORKING WITH STAFF, TRYING TO DETERMINE THE RIGHT PATHWAY ABOUT WHETHER ONE, HOW WE DEFINE THAT THING, MEANING HOW DID WE ARRIVE AT THIS BOUNDARY OR TO CONSIDERING, YOU KNOW, WHICH AREAS MAY BE INCLUDED, OR MAYBE STRATEGICALLY NOT INCLUDED, UM, WITHIN THIS, OR INCLUDED WITH A VERY STRONG CAVEAT THAT SAYS WE'RE DOING THIS WORK FOR THE PURPOSES OF ANALYSIS, BUT THERE IS NO ASSUMPTION THAT, YOU KNOW, RECOMMENDATIONS ARE BEING MADE ON TOP OF THESE EXISTING AREAS.
ARE THERE ANY, YOU'VE HAD A CHANCE, I THINK, TO THINK ABOUT THAT FOR A COUPLE OF WEEKS.
SO ARE THERE ANY MORE THOUGHTS, ONE JUST THE PLANNING AREA CONCEPT WITHIN THE WORK? WELL, I THINK I HAD THE STRONGEST FEELINGS ON THAT.
SO IF Y'ALL DON'T MIND, GO AHEAD.
UM, I DON'T HAVE A CHALLENGE PER SE WITH AREAS LIKE ALL JOY BEING INCLUDED IN THE STUDY AREA, BUT I, I TRULY BELIEVE THAT WE NEED TO HAVE A DIFFERENT HATCHING, A DIFFERENT COLORING, SOMETHING WITHIN IT SAYING THAT THERE IS NO INTENT TO ANNEX NOR MAKE THIS A PART OF THE TOWN.
IT WAS JUST DONE FOR PURPOSE OF INCREASE, UH, EXTENDING THE OVERALL CHARACTER OF WHAT'S ALREADY THERE THAT WE LIKE AS PART OF WHAT'S GOING ON.
BECAUSE LIKE I SAID BEFORE, I MEAN, I'VE ONLY BEEN HERE FOR 31 YEARS AND FOR 31 YEARS I'VE BEEN HEARING THAT, UM, BLUFFTON IS TRYING TO ANNEX
[00:20:01]
ALL JOY AND IT'S NEVER BEEN TRUE.AND SO IT'S, IT'S A TOUGH THING THAT WE NEED TO MAKE CLEAR EVERY, UH, EVERY CHANCE WE GET MR. IN ADDITION TO ALL JOY, ARE THERE ANY OTHER PLACES OR, YOU KNOW, SOME NEIGHBORHOODS THAT WE OUGHT TO BE AWARE OF AND, AND KIND OF TREAT WITH A SIMILAR TREATMENT, YOU KNOW, IN THAT PLAN, CAN ANY OF YOU THINK OF ANYTHING? I CAN'T THINK OF ANYTHING THAT'S BEYOND THERE THAT'S AN ISSUE.
AND IT'S IRONIC BECAUSE WE COULDN'T ANNEX THEM, EVEN IF WE WANTED TO WITH THE SOUTH CAROLINA LAWS AND WE DON'T WANT TO, SO SURE.
DID YOU HAVE SOMETHING KATHLEEN, UM, DID THE PREVIOUS ANNEXATION AREA, THE TECHNICALLY CURRENT AND THE CURRENT COMPREHENSIVE PLAN OUTLINES AN AREA OF ANNEXATION, UH, AT LEAST IN THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, MAYBE I'M INCORRECT ABOUT THAT, BUT IT DOES IDENTIFY AN AREA OF ANNEXATION.
I'M WONDERING, DOES IT INCLUDE THE ALL JOY AREA? IF ANYBODY, CHARLOTTE, YOU MAY OR MAY NOT KNOW THAT OFF THE TOP OF YOUR HEAD.
UM, AND TWO, IS THAT SOMETHING THAT WE COULD CONSIDER PUTTING IN HERE IS, YOU KNOW, THERE'S A STUDY LAND USE AREA THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT, BUT THEN ACTUALLY GO THROUGH THE PROCESS OF IDENTIFYING THAT EXIT POTENTIAL ANNEXATION AREA.
I DON'T BELIEVE IT IS, BUT I WOULD NEED TO, TO LIKE FOR CERTAIN, YEAH.
I'M JUST WONDERING IF THAT, CAUSE THAT COULD HELP CLARIFY AS IF ONE, EVEN IF THE PREVIOUS ANNEXATION MAP INCLUDED THE EL JOY AREA, WE COULD THEN PARCEL THAT OUT, YOU KNOW, CUT THAT OFF.
SO THAT'S NO LONGER A QUESTION.
UM, BUT THAT JUST INCLUSION, INCLUDING THAT MAP IN HERE, CLARIFIES WE'RE NOT LOOKING TO ANNEX IT.
WE'RE JUST LOOKING AT IT AS A PART OF THE BIGGER PICTURE.
I ALSO WONDER, AND KIND OF PROBABLY THIS CONVERSATION SPARKS A PIECE FOR ME, WHICH IN A LOT OF PLANS, I'LL TYPICALLY OUTLINE HOW ANNEXATION ACTUALLY OCCURS IN YOUR STATE, MEANING LIKE WHAT'S THE ACTUAL PROCESS TO DO THAT.
UM, AS, AND AGAIN, THIS IS REALLY JUST A BIT OF INFORMATION.
UM, BUT JUST LIKE WE WOULD PROVIDE, YOU KNOW, INFORMATION AND OTHER CHAPTERS, IT MAY BE OF INTEREST TO A READER TO DETERMINE OR TO, TO SEE LIKE, THIS IS EXACTLY HOW IT WORKS HERE IN SOUTH CAROLINA.
UM, YOU KNOW, THERE IS WHO NEEDS TO BE INVOLVED, UH, PROPERTY OWNER, YOU KNOW, WHATEVER THAT MIGHT LOOK LIKE.
I THINK IF WE HAD A GOOD, AND MAYBE IT'S A SIDEBAR STYLE PARAGRAPH, BUT WE HAD SOME INFORMATION THERE, BUT JUST HOW THAT'S WORKED, YOU KNOW, ESPECIALLY AS THE COMMITTEE HAS GROWN SIGNIFICANTLY THROUGH THAT PROCESS.
UM, YOU KNOW WHAT, WHAT'S TYPICAL THERE.
I THINK THAT WOULD HELP A LITTLE BIT HERE.
I MEAN, IT JUST SAY IN TERMS OF JUST, I MEAN THIS BASE COMMUNICATION HERE CAN'T HURT, CAN'T HURT.
I MEAN, I'M NOT EVEN SURE YOU NEED TO FULLY OUTLINE IT, BUT AS LONG AS YOU MAKE REFERENCE TO, IF THERE'S A SOURCE THAT IDENTIFIES THAT CLEARLY THAT APP, THAT PROCESS, CLEARLY I THINK THAT THAT WOULD BE SUFFICIENT, UM, WHICH COULD BE INCLUDED AS PART OF THAT APP AS PART OF THE, AN ANNEXATION MAP OF WHAT COULD BE ANNEXED IN THE TOWN OF HILTON HEAD OR TENNIS BLUFFTON VERSUS WHAT IS, CANNOT BE INCLUDED AS A PART OF THE TOWN'S LIFTON.
SO IT'S THE IDEA OF, OF, YOU KNOW, POTENTIALLY ANNEXABLE VERSUS OFF THE TABLE ESSENTIALLY.
UM, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS I JUST WANTED TO LIFT UP IN THIS CHAPTER AND, YOU KNOW, NOT CLOSING THE DOOR ON THIS ANY MEANS, UH, HERE THIS EVENING.
SO JUST LIKE WITH THE OTHER TOPICS, I THINK IF, IF YOU ALL HAVE THOUGHTS THAT FLOWER, YOU KNOW, OUT OF OUR DISCUSSION, I REALLY WANT YOU TO FEEL COMFORTABLE, VERY QUICKLY SHARING THEM WITH ME.
UM, THERE WAS A NOTE TOWARD THE REAR OF THIS, UM, UH, SECTION AROUND DEFINING OR DIFFERENTIATING THE TERMS AFFORDABLE AND WORKFORCE HOUSING, WHICH OBVIOUSLY IF YOU LOOKED AT THOSE LIKE ON A VENN DIAGRAM, THERE'S A PRETTY BIG OVERLAP BETWEEN A AND B, BUT THEY ARE DIFFERENT.
UM, AND THEY ARE, UH, YOU KNOW, IT PROBABLY IN, IN THE CASE OF, OF OUR WORK, ESPECIALLY THIS CHAPTER, WE'RE GOING TO TALK ABOUT HERE IN A SECOND WITH HOUSING IN NEED OF SOME BETTER CLARIFICATION.
UM, SO THAT'S SOMETHING THAT I WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ADDED INTO THIS, UM, UH, INTO THIS NEXT GO ROUND AND ALSO MAKE SURE THAT WE HIT DIRECTLY ON THE HEAD, YOU KNOW, WITHIN THAT HOUSING, UM, CHAPTER, ANY, ANY COMMENTS ON, ON THE HOUSING BIT SHAKING YOUR HEAD? NO, ALL I CAN SEE IS MYSELF.
UM, ARE YOU GOOD? ARE YOU REFERENCING IT AS, AS PART OF ONE OF THE RECOMMENDATIONS
[00:25:01]
UNDER LAND USE? IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE, WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THE AFFORDABLE VERSUS A WORKFORCE? UH, YES, I BELIEVE I AM.THERE WAS A NOTE, I THINK IT'S AN L 1.4 REVIEW WORKFORCE AFFORDABLE HOUSING REQUIREMENTS.
UM, UH, AS A PROVISION, THERE WAS A NOTE IN THERE.
UM, I BELIEVE IT WAS BY YOUR CONDITIONER TO MAKE SURE THAT WE DEFINE WHAT THOSE TWO MEAN, OR MAYBE THE TERM IS DIFFERENTIATED, NOT NECESSARILY TO FIND, BUT DO BOTH DEFINE AND DIFFERENTIATE.
AND I THINK BECAUSE THE HOUSING SECTION ACTUALLY PRE COMES BEFORE THIS, AS LONG AS YOU DIFFERENTIATE THAT AND DEFINE THAT IN THE HOUSING SECTION, I DON'T KNOW THAT YOU NEED TO GO THROUGH THE EXTRA EFFORT IN HERE OTHER THAN OTHER THAN SPECIFICALLY APPLY THOSE DEFINITIONS AND HOW THAT RELATES TO THE LAND USE SECTION OF IT.
LIKE HOW MUCH PERCENTAGE, WHAT PERCENTAGE OF OUR TOTAL HOUSING SHOULD BE AFFORDABLE AND WHAT PERCENTAGE SHOULD BE WORKFORCE APPLICATION, THINGS LIKE OF THAT NATURE.
YEAH, WE CAN, WE CAN CERTAINLY DO THAT.
AND KNOW I CAUGHT THAT NOTE ALSO IN THE, UH, THE, I GUESS THE SISTER CHAPTER TO THIS WITHIN HOUSING AS WELL.
SO WE WOULD CERTAINLY MAKE SURE THAT THAT IS WELL-DEFINED IS YOU GUYS KNOW WE'LL GET INTO THIS WHEN WE TALK ABOUT HOUSING, BUT, UM, YOU KNOW, THERE THERE'S A LOT OF, UM, IMPLIED SYNONYMS WITHIN THAT CONVERSATION THAT AREN'T QUITE SYNONYMS, RIGHT? LOW-INCOME HOUSING, AFFORDABLE HOUSING AND WORKFORCE.
THEY DO MEAN DIFFERENT THINGS.
SO, UM, WE WANT TO MAKE SURE IN A COUPLE OF THOSE TERMS ARE RELATIVE TO WHERE YOU ARE.
ONE OF THEM IS, IS, IS SORT OF A FEDERAL DEFINITION.
SO, UM, JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE RIGHT THING WHEN WE ARE TALKING ABOUT IT.
SO THAT'S IMPORTANT, THE POINT I'M GLAD SOMEONE MADE THAT COMMENT.
HAS THERE BEEN ANY, YOU KNOW, LIKE I SAID, THERE, WEREN'T A HUGE AMOUNT OF COMMENTS IN THIS SECTION, BUT I DID WANT TO JUST SEE IF THERE'S ANY, YOU KNOW, ANY OPEN DISCUSSION, YOU KNOW, ABOUT THE LADY'S TOPIC IN GENERAL.
UM, IT'S ONE THAT WE GET EXCITED TO DISCUSS AS NERDY PLANNERS, BUT, UM, ANYTHING JUST, I THINK, GENERAL, UM, YOU'D LIKE TO DISCUSS WITHIN, UM, THIS PARTICULAR SECTION, UM, LYDIA HAS SOMETHING SHE WANTED TO, HAS THERE BEEN ANY FURTHER, UM, DISCUSSIONS BETWEEN YOU AND STAFF ABOUT THE TOWN HALL PRESENTATION REGARDING CURRENT LAND USE, FUTURE LAND USE AND PUD BUILD-OUT AND IF SO, WHERE ARE WE WITH THAT? I'M SORRY.
I HAD A LITTLE TROUBLE HEARING THAT COMMENT OR QUESTION, HAVE YOU AND STAFF HAD A CHANCE TO REVIEW THE TOWN HALL, UM, MAPS ABOUT PUD BUILD-OUT AND FUTURE LAND USE AND CURRENTLY ON USE IN BLUFFTON THAT ARE NOT PART OF THE COMP PLAN, BUT ARE PART OF THE TOWN HALL PRESENTATION.
UM, THAT, THAT, THAT PRESENTATION WAS SHARED WITH ME, CHARLOTTE UGLIER.
YOU SHARED THAT IT'S PART OF THE PREVIOUS, IF I'M THINKING OF THE CORRECT.
UH, IF I'M THINKING OF THE CORRECT DOCUMENT, UM, THAT BUILD OUT ANALYSIS WAS SHARED WITH ME, PROBABLY THERE WAS SOME COMMENT DURING THE PREVIOUS SESSION ABOUT THE NUMBERS WITHIN THAT PLAN.
AGAIN, THAT WAS NOT PART OF THIS PROCESS EXPLICITLY, BUT IT'S OBVIOUSLY BEEN BROUGHT TO MY ATTENTION.
I, I CAN'T REALLY COMMENT BEYOND THAT.
UM, CHARLOTTE, I'M NOT SURE IF YOU HAVE ANYTHING TO ELABORATE ON WITH THAT PIECE.
I'VE STARTED TO LOOK THROUGH THAT.
UM, SO KEVIN AND I WILL TAKE A LOOK AT THOSE NUMBERS AND, UM, WORK WITH KYLE AND I BELIEVE WE HAD A PUBLIC COMMENT ABOUT THAT TOO.
SO, UM, I AM REVIEWING THAT RIGHT NOW AND WE'LL MAKE SURE THAT WE HAVE THAT CORRECTED IN THE PLAN.
I THINK, I THINK WHAT THE CONFUSION IS, IF I'M READING IT RIGHT, WHEN I WENT BACK THROUGH IT IS THE NUMBERS THAT ARE USED FOR THE HOUSING IS IN UNITS.
AND THE NUMBERS THAT ARE USED FOR COMMERCIAL IS AN ACRES.
AND SO IT'S A PERCENTAGE OF ACREAGE PLUS A PERCENTAGE OF UNITS AND DIVIDING IT OUT.
AND THAT'S NOT ENTIRELY ACCURATE CAUSE YOU'RE, YOU'RE DEALING WITH APPLES AND ORANGES, NOT APPLES AND APPLES.
SO I KNOW YOU ALL ARE, ARE ON THAT, BUT I'D BE CURIOUS TO SEE WHAT YOU COME UP WITH AND HOW YOU GET THERE AS WELL.
I JUST THINK THERE'S A PRETTY BIG DISCREPANCY BETWEEN THAT DOCUMENT AND THIS DOCUMENT.
AND I KNOW THE MATH IS PROBABLY NOT QUITE CORRECT ON THAT DOCUMENT, BUT WITH SUCH A HUGE DISCREPANCY, I, WE NEED TO KNOW ALL OF THAT INFORMATION TO BE ABLE TO WRAP UP THIS DOCUMENT AND KIND OF MOVE FORWARD, UM, IN TERMS OF BUILD OUT AND LAND USE.
AND I THINK IT'S JUST CONFUSING THAT WE'RE KIND OF PRESENTING THE TOWN HALL INFO QUITE DIFFERENTLY THAN THIS.
SO WHEREVER THAT RESOLVES, PLEASE KEEP US POSTED
[00:30:02]
CONDITIONED UPON.AND I THINK WORKING WITH CHARLOTTE, WE WANT TO MAKE SURE WE RECONCILE THOSE NUMBERS, ESPECIALLY MAKING SURE THEY'RE APPLES TO APPLES IN HERE.
I THINK THEY WANT ONE OF THE CRITICAL THINGS TO STRESS, AND I THINK WE NEED TO DO THIS BETTER IN THE PLAN, UM, AND UNDERLINING IT IS LOOKING AT THE PLANNING AREA VERSUS THE TOWN SPECIFICALLY.
UM, AND THERE, THERE, THERE WILL BE SOME DISCREPANCY BETWEEN A AND B AND I THINK THAT'S MORE TO DO WITH HOW WE APPROACH THE ANALYSIS ON OUR SIDE, BUT YOU KNOW, VERY MINIMUM, WHICH YOU POINT OUT WE NEED TO RECONCILE THAT.
SO CERTAINLY IT'S A HIGH NOTE ON MY LIST.
THANK YOU FOR POINTING THAT OUT.
OKAY, KYLE, YOU WANT ME TO GO AHEAD AND OPEN UP FOR PUBLIC COMMENT DISCUSSION? ARE YOU GOOD WITH THAT? CAN YOU HEAR ME OKAY.
IS THERE ANYONE THAT HAS ANY CARING? WELL, THEY'RE ALL ABOUT HOUSING.
HOUSING NOW? OR DO YOU WANT TO WAIT UNTIL AFTER COMMENT? YES.
SO WE'LL JUST WAIT ON THE HOUSING ONE.
WE HAVE ONE COMMENT AND THEN, UM, MR. MURRAY WENT MORE AND MORE.
PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD.
UM, JUST A THOUGHT ON LAND USE AND FORGIVE ME IF THIS IS TOO LATE IN THE PROCESS HERE.
UM, BUT MY BIG LAND USE PET PEEVE IN THE TOWN OF BLUFFTON IS WHAT ARE THE BLUFFTON BUCK, WALTER PARKWAYS.
AND HOW DO YOU WANT THEM DEVELOPED MOVING INTO THE FUTURE RIGHT NOW? YOU KNOW, THERE'S AN AWFUL LOT OF STORAGE UNITS THAT ARE JUST DRIED UP ON THE ROAD ON THE PARKWAY.
UM, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF IT ISN'T DEVELOPED YET, BUT AS YOU COME OFF THE ISLAND, IT'S THE BACK OF TANGER AND THE BACK OF TANGER AND SOME WOODS IN SOME, UM, UTILITY EASEMENTS.
AND THEN IT KIND OF TURNS INTO A LOT OF PARKING, LOTS THAT WE'RE NOT BUILDING TO THE PARKWAY, UM, KIND OF PARKING LOTS IN FRONT OF BUILDINGS.
WE'RE NOT REALLY SCREENING IT IN A WAY THAT THAT HILTON HAD DONE.
THERE'S NOT REALLY A BIG GENEROUS BUFFER, AND IT'S NOT ALL KIND OF HIDDEN BEHIND THE TREES AND NATURAL.
UM, SO WE CALL THEM PARKWAYS, BUT, BUT WHAT IS THAT, UM, HOW DO WE WANT TO GUIDE, UH, DEVELOPMENT ON THOSE IN THE FUTURE? DO WE WANT MORE OF WHAT WE'VE GOT? UH, WHERE DO WE WANT TO SEE THOSE TREES START GOING AWAY? BECAUSE THEY'RE QUOTE UNQUOTE CIVIC CULTURE AND THOSE LOTS GET CLEAR-CUT AND I END UP, UM, A LOT OF OPEN SPACE AND A LOT LESS GREEN ON THE PARKWAYS THAN WE DO IN OTHER PARTS OF TOWN, LIKE OLD TOWN.
UM, AND EVEN LIKE NEW RIVERSIDE, UH, STILL MAINTAINS A TREE.
CAN'T BE PRETTY WELL, BUT THE PARKWAYS THEMSELVES KIND OF FEEL LIKE A IN-BETWEEN NOWHERE PLACE RIGHT NOW THAT I THINK COULD BE IMPROVED UPON ON THE NEXT 10 YEARS.
THANK YOU, CRUTCHFIELD, IF I COULD REALLY QUICKLY ON MR. DEPAUL'S COMMENT, I APPRECIATE THE IDEA OF, YOU KNOW, APPLYING CHARACTER TYPOLOGY, YOU KNOW, TO, YOU KNOW, THOSE, THOSE STREETS, ESPECIALLY AS WE START TO CALL THEM PARKWAYS, YOU KNOW, THAT THAT TERM MEANS SOMETHING RIGHT, YOU KNOW, AND TRANSPORTATION PLANNING.
AND, UM, THAT MAY BE A SOFT POINT.
I THINK THAT WE COULD ADDRESS A AND I THINK IT PROBABLY FITS IN MOSTLY IN THE TRANSPORTATION SECTION AS A PIECE THAT WE CAN INFLUENCE WITH OUR PARTNERS AROUND THE COUNTY AND INDEED THE STATE, BUT ALSO, YOU KNOW, THAT, UM, THAT RIGHT OF WAY CONVERSATION IMPACTS THE CHARACTER OF, OF THE, THE, UH, THE OUTSIDE OF THE RIGHT OF WAY DISCUSSION THERE, THE REAL ESTATE.
I'M THE FACILITIES PLANNER FOR THE BEAVER COUNTY SCHOOL DISTRICT HERE AGAIN.
WE HAD SUMMER INSTITUTE TRAINING FOR ALL OUR TEACHERS TODAY.
ANYWAY, SO I MISSED THE DISCUSSION, BUT AGAIN, I THINK I TOUCHED ON THIS BEFORE AT PREVIOUS MEETINGS, BUT I CAN'T SAY IT ENOUGH.
UM, IF YOU CAN INCLUDE IN YOUR THOUGHT AND PLANNING, EVEN IN GENERICALLY SAYING, WE NEED TO KEEP IN MIND THAT LAND IS NEEDED FOR SCHOOLS AND PARKS AND RECREATION AND THINGS FOR OUR STUDENTS.
THAT'S REALLY JUST KIND OF WHAT I WANTED TO CONTINUE TO SAY.
AND AS MANY TIMES AS I CAN, I'M ALWAYS TALKING ABOUT LAND AND A NEED FOR LAND, AND WE'RE TRYING TO PURCHASE LAND AND LAND IS HARD TO COME BY.
SO, UM, IF IT CAN BE IN THE FOREFRONT, IF IT'S IN A PLANNING, BLUEPRINT DOCUMENT THAT WE'RE GOING TO BE LOOKING FOR THE NEXT 10 YEARS, THEN IT'S SOMETHING WE NEED TO CONTINUE TO KEEP IN MIND.
CAUSE WE STILL HAVE A LOT MORE TO GROW.
WELL, THAT'S A REALLY GOOD POINT.
THAT SHOULD BE IN THIS CHAPTER.
KYLE IS, YOU KNOW, WE, WE MAY NOT BE ABLE TO IDENTIFY LINE BECAUSE THAT MAKES IT INFINITELY MORE EXPENSIVE FOR WHOEVER BUYS IT FOR THE SCHOOLS.
BUT WE CAN TALK ABOUT THE CONCEPT
[00:35:01]
IN THE LAND USE CHAPTER.DID YOU HAVE SOMETHING ON, UM, IF YOU'VE GOT AN IN FRONT OF YOU, IF YOU CAN GO TO 1 25, UM, AND I KNOW I MENTIONED THIS BACK WHEN WE HAD THE INITIAL MEETING, THIS IS THE CURRENT GROWTH FRAMEWORK MAP.
AND I DON'T KNOW IF YOU CAN PULL IT UP CHARLOTTE OR NO, WE DON'T HAVE IT HOOKED UP TONIGHT.
UM, THERE ARE A COUPLE THINGS ON THERE THAT I'M, I'M PERSONALLY HAVING CHALLENGES WITH.
UM, AND THAT IS, I MEAN, IN THE 2007 PLAN WE DISCUSSED, I DON'T KNOW IF IT WAS PART OF THE PLAN YET BECAUSE IT WAS ALSO NEW OUT THERE, BUT THE THREE MAJOR NODES WERE TO BE OLD TOWN BUCK, WALTER PLACE AND NEW RIVERSIDE AND NEW RIVERSIDE ON THIS MAP IS LISTED AS, AS LESS OF A MAJOR NODE.
ALTHOUGH IT IS SURROUNDED WHEN IT'S ALL DONE, IT'LL BE SURROUNDED BY OVER 11,000 HOMES.
UM, AND THAT'S, IF YOU DON'T INCLUDE PALMETTO BLUFF, SO THAT NEEDS TO BE A MAJOR NODE.
AND THE OTHER THING, UM, THAT I WAS HAVING A CHALLENGE WITH, I ACTUALLY MISREAD.
SO FORGET THAT, UM, THE, UM, UM, IF YOU GO BACK TO PAGE 1 24, BEFORE THAT I WOULD SUGGEST ON SUBJECT F SAYS, ACKNOWLEDGE THE GRAVITATIONAL PULL OF OLD TOWN.
I WOULD ALMOST CHANGE THAT TO ACKNOWLEDGE THE GRAVITATIONAL PULL OF THE MAJOR NODES IN TOWN.
AND WE NEED TO START THINKING ABOUT HOW THEY'RE DRAWING FROM THE COMMUNITIES THAT ARE IMMEDIATELY AROUND THEM AND HOW ARE THEY'RE DRAWING FROM FURTHER OUT.
SO ALL THE TOWN WILL DRAW FROM JUST OUTSIDE OF OLD TOWN, BUT IT'LL DRAW FROM BUCK WALTER, NEW RIVERSIDE PEOPLE IN OLD TOWN, WE'LL GO TO NEW RIVERSIDE, TO THE BARN PARK THAT'S GETTING DEVELOPED AND SO ON.
AND, AND THAT WILL PROBABLY PLAY INTO TRANSPORTATION AS WELL.
UH, BUT FOR LAND USE, I WOULD, I WOULD SUGGEST THAT.
AND THEN THE OTHER ONE I PERSONALLY AM HAVING A CHALLENGE WITH IS, UH, IF YOU GO BACK TO THE MAP FOR A SECOND AND YOU SEE ON THE LEFT-HAND SIDE WHERE IT SAYS STUDY AREA, JUST TO THE RIGHT OF THAT IS THE INTERSECTION OF ONE 70 IN BLUFFTON PARKWAY THAT SHOULD BE DEVELOPED AS, OR THAT SHOULD BE, UM, TAGGED AS SOME TYPE OF NODE.
UM, IT'S AND I SAID THIS BEFORE, AND I DON'T WANT TO, I DON'T WANT TO REHASH EVERYTHING, BUT BLUFFTON PARKWAY IS EVENTUALLY GOING TO BECOME EXIT THREE ON I 95.
AND THAT IS GOING TO END UP BEING A COMMERCIAL NODE IN THE TOWN.
AND THIS, THIS COMPREHENSIVE PLAN IDENTIFIES IT AS A POTENTIAL LARGE HOUSING NODE, POSSIBLY HELPING WITH AFFORDABLE AND WORKFORCE HOUSING, WHICH MAY BE OKAY.
IT MAY NOT BE, BUT AS AN ENTRYWAY INTO THE TOWN, IT SEEMS TO ME THAT THAT MAKES MORE SENSE, KEEPING IT A COMMERCIAL MODE, WHICH IS WHAT IT'S PAID FOR NOW.
AND ON THE FLIP SIDE, WE DON'T ALWAYS AGREE ON EVERYTHING, BUT MRS. CRUTCHFIELD AND I AGREE ON NOT ADDING MORE HOUSING UNITS TO THIS TOWN, IF WE DON'T HAVE TO.
AND SO IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT WORKFORCE AND AFFORDABLE HOUSING, WHERE ARE THOSE UNITS COMING FROM? IF WE'RE JUST CREATING AMOUNT OF WHAT IS NOW COMMERCIAL SPACE.
SO THOSE WERE MY CHALLENGES WITH THE MAP, UM, AND THINGS THAT WE NEED TO THINK THROUGH, I THINK, WELL, I, I APPRECIATE THOSE COMMENTS COMMISSIONER, AND YOU CAN SEE ME, UH, YOU KNOW, MAKING OUR NOTES HERE, LIVE, UH, INTO THE PDF.
I THINK, UH, UH, I AGREE, I THINK ON EACH OF THOSE, UM, AND THOSE ARE, THOSE ARE THINGS WE CAN PICK UP, UM, IN THIS NEXT VERSION AND WE HAVE ANOTHER PUBLIC COMPANY, PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD.
SEAL 22 TRAIL RIDGE RETREAT, BLUFFTON, SOUTH CAROLINA.
UM, I WAS, UH, BECOMING INFORMED THAT HARDY VILLE IS DEVELOPING SOME INSANE NUMBER OF HOUSES OR IT'S BEEN APPROVED SOMETHING LIKE 9,500.
SO WE'RE TALKING ABOUT LAND USE AND YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT THE NODES WHERE THEY'RE OBVIOUSLY ALL THOSE PEOPLE ARE NOT GOING TO HARDY TO EAT BECAUSE THERE'S NOTHING TO EAT THERE OTHER THAN A BURGER KING.
I THINK THEY'RE PROBABLY GOING TO BE COMING TO BLUFFTON.
SO WOULD IT BE WISE TO POTENTIALLY THINK ABOUT MAKING MORE COMMERCIAL AREA OVER THERE BY, YOU KNOW, 2 78 WHERE WHATEVER
[00:40:01]
THE PART OF TOWN BLUFFTON IS, WHICH I THINK KIND OF ENDS WHERE 2 78 AND ONE 70 IS ANY OF THAT AVAILABLE TO BECOME COMMERCIAL THAT SHOULD POTENTIALLY TRY TO, I DON'T KNOW, BE INCORPORATED AND YEAH, BECAUSE IT MIGHT, I MEAN, EVERYBODY'S GOING TO FLOW TO WHAT WE HAVE FURTHER THIS WAY, IF THERE WAS NOTHING OUT THAT WAY.SO I WAS JUST, I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW.
AND I'M NOT SURE, BUT I WANTED TO THROW THAT IN.
UH, THERE ISN'T MUCH TOWN OF BLUFFTON LAND THERE.
UNFORTUNATELY THERE IS SEAGRASS STATION, WHICH HAS A COMMERCIAL COMPONENT TO IT, BUT PRETTY MUCH EVERYTHING ELSE IS, IS COUNTY.
AND I KNOW THEY, THEY ARE PAYING ATTENTION TO THAT AREA AND THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE TO DO SOME MAJOR TRAFFIC IMPROVEMENTS THERE.
YOU SEE THAT EXPLOSIVE GROWTH IN YOUR REGION.
IT'S OBVIOUSLY BEING ABSORBED, NOT JUST BY YOU ALL BY, BUT BY NUMBER OF COMMUNITIES I THINK, AND SOME OF YOU GUYS HAVE AMENITIES THAT WERE GIFTED, YOU KNOW, THROUGH PREVIOUS ERAS AND SOME OF YOU MAY NOT, AND YOU'RE RIGHT.
UM, ANDREW, TO BRING OUT THE, KIND OF THE CROSS MOVEMENT THAT, THAT CREATES, UM, YEAH, THE BUCK WALTER PAUL GRAY, OR EXCUSE ME, THE BLUFFTON PARKWAY AND, UH, THE EXTENSION OVER IS IN, RIGHT.
OR THEY BRING UP COMMISSIONER, YOU KNOW, TO THE FREEWAY, WHAT THAT WOULD MEAN.
THAT'S OBVIOUSLY A BIG DEAL, I THINK FOR YOU ALL.
AND YOU KNOW THAT, AND I'M NOT, I'M PREACHING THE CHOIR HERE, BUT I THINK IF YOU THINK ABOUT THE FACILITATION MOVEMENT, IT'S NOT JUST TOWARD THE INTERSTATE, IT'S ALSO BACK TOWARD, YOU KNOW, BLUFFTON, WHETHER IT'S BOTH WALTER AND BEYOND, OR EVEN SOME OF THAT NOTE THAT YOU JUST POINTED OUT COMMISSIONER.
SO, BUT YEAH, I THINK EACH OF THOSE POINTS IS, IS IMPORTANT.
ONE THAT WE MAKE SURE THAT WE, UH, YOU KNOW, HAVE UNDERLINED IN THIS WORK, ESPECIALLY WITHIN THIS CHAPTER.
WELL, AND, AND TO THROW ONTO THAT JUST AS YOU WERE TALKING IT, THE THOUGHT PROCESS CONTINUES WHEN THAT IS DONE, WHENEVER THAT IS DONE, WHETHER IT'S FIVE YEARS OR 15 OR 20 YEARS.
NOW EVERYBODY THAT LANDS AT HILTON HEAD BLUFFTON OR HILTON HEAD SAVANNAH AIRPORT COMES UP 46 THROUGH THE TRAFFIC CIRCLE.
AND HOPEFULLY UP ON 70, ONCE THAT'S DONE, EVERYBODY'S GOING TO COME UP BLUFFTON PARKWAY.
SO THAT'S GOING TO BE A MAJOR TRAFFIC SHIFT, UM, IN THE TOWN.
I DON'T KNOW THAT IT'S SOMETHING WE ADDRESS IN THIS COMP PLAN, BUT IT'S, IT'S SOMETHING THAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN.
IT HAS A DIRECT RELATIONSHIP TO LAND USE TO, RIGHT.
I MEAN, I THINK THAT'S THE KEY POINT WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THESE, THESE SECTIONS BEING INTERRELATED, BUT, YOU KNOW, NOTHING AFFECTS LAND USE, LIKE TRANSPORTATION AND ACCESS.
SO, UM, YOU KNOW, WE WOULD JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE, I THINK THAT THAT POINT IS NOT BEING HIT.
ARE THERE ANY, YEAH, ABSOLUTELY.
UM, WE HAD A PUBLIC COMMENT AT A PREVIOUS MEETING THAT WAS, UM, MENTIONING THE POTENTIAL FOR A MASTER PLANS EXPIRING IN THE STATE OF SOUTH CAROLINA.
I WASN'T SURE IF STAFF HAS HAD ANY TIME TO LOOK INTO THAT OR IF THAT'S, UM, IF THERE'S TRUTH TO THAT, BECAUSE AS FOR L 2.2, I THINK WE TALKED ABOUT HOW WE MAY NEED TO RENEGOTIATE SOME PUD AGREEMENTS.
UM, IF MASTER PLANS DO EXPIRE, THAT WOULD BE VERY RELEVANT TO THAT CONVERSATION.
AND IF SO, WHAT ARE THOSE DATES? I, I KNOW ONE LITTLE ANSWER TO THIS.
SO FOR EXAMPLE, BUCK WALTER PUD IS ON ITS 11TH AMENDMENT AND WHEN THE REVISIONS ARE DONE AND SO ON, UM, THAT ADDS 25 YEARS TO 25.
SO I BELIEVE BUCK WALTER EXPIRES IN 2039, IF I'M RIGHT, IT STARTS OVER.
IF THEY AMENDED, IT STARTS THE CLOCK OVER, BUT THAT'S, THAT'S VERY LITTLE I KNOW ABOUT EXPERTS AND WHO CAN AMEND IT.
LIKE DO THEY HAVE TO COME BACK TO THE TOWN WHENEVER WE DO? WHAT IS THE MASTER PLAN AMENDMENT WE'RE LOOKING AT? I DON'T KNOW.
OH, WELL, MIDPOINT MASTER PLAN AMENDMENT, IF IT'S OPENED UP AND IT'S AMENDED, THAT STARTS THE CLOTH ALL OVER.
SO I GUESS MY QUESTION WOULD BE, CAN WE INCLUDE WITH OUR PLANNING EXISTING, AT LEAST AT THE TIME OF THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, WHAT THOSE EXPIRATION DATES ARE? PRESENTLY? I WILL COMMENT DISAPPOINTED 22.
I, UH, I DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT, I MEAN, I THINK WITH RESPECT TO ALL THIS, AND I'M NOT SURE THIS HAS EVER BEEN A FOCUS AND I'VE NEVER BEEN IN A MEETINGS UNTIL TO ALL OF OUR PLANNING MEETINGS.
UM, AND I THINK THE TOWN NEEDS TO GET A HOLD ON WHAT ARE EXPIRATION TIMES AND THINGS LIKE THAT FOR ALL THESE PLANS AND START
[00:45:01]
POTENTIALLY ADHERING TO THEM, OR AT LEAST FIGURING OUT BECAUSE IT, THE PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING THE OTHER DAY, MR. TOWN COUNCIL GAVE A FAIRLY AMBIGUOUS ANSWER, WHICH I THINK HIS ANSWER WAS, WELL, WE TREAT THIS AS PUD DS, WHATEVER THE EXPIRATION TIME ON P DOT PUD IS, IS, IS WHAT THE EXPIRATION TIME ON ANYTHING ASSOCIATED BEING DEVELOPMENT PLANS, MASTER PLANS, THINGS LIKE THAT.AND I MENTIONED THAT THERE'S A MAJOR, THERE IS POTENTIALLY A LOOPHOLE LIKE IN ALL GOOD DILUTE LEGISLATION, A LOOPHOLE, WHICH IS THE HEALTH, SAFETY, AND WELFARE OF THE COMMUNITY.
AND WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE STATUTE THAT ALL THIS PDS ARE BASED ON, THERE IS A SECTION IN THERE AND I KIND OF GOT TIRED OF WRITING MEMOS FOR, I HAVEN'T WRITTEN ONE FOR THIS MEETING, BUT THERE ARE POTENTIALLY WASTE, I THINK, NEGOTIATE THIS, OF COURSE NOBODY'S GOING TO LIKE IT, BUT THERE ARE LOOPHOLES.
AND WITH RESPECT TO THE MASTER PLAN, AGAIN, WE WERE USING, THERE IS A FIVE-YEAR EXPIRATION, THE UDL UNDER 3.9, WHATEVER FOR MASTER PLANS WITH A CAVEAT OR SOMETHING.
BUT, YOU KNOW, I THINK IT, I THINK IT'D BE WISE TO GET A HOLD ON.
WHAT ARE THE TIME LIMITS ON THESE THINGS, AS OPPOSED TO JUST DEFAULTING TO THE PUD TIME LIMIT OF 25 YEARS PLUS ANOTHER FIVE YEARS PLUS ANOTHER FIVE YEARS.
THAT'S JUST MY, THAT'S A GOOD IDEA WHEN THERE IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN PRDS AND THE UDL, THE UDL HANDLES.
WHAT'S NOT IN A PUD SO WELL, IF I COULD, I THINK IN THE P AND D DOCUMENTS, WHEN I READ, LIKE, FOR EXAMPLE, THE NEW RIVERSIDE ONE, I HAVEN'T READ ANY OF THE OTHERS.
THE NEW RIVERSIDE PUTS A, UH, IT TELLS WHAT, WHAT DOCUMENTS ARE GOVERNING.
BUT HONESTLY I HAVE A HARD TIME FIGURING OUT WHAT THE UDU ACTUALLY APPLY.
THE CURRENT UTO THAT'S LIKE ON THE WEBSITE, WHAT THAT APPLIES TO, BECAUSE IT STARTS WITH THE DEVELOPMENT PLAN.
I THINK IT GOES TO THE STATUTE AND THEN THERE'S FOUR OR FIVE OTHERS.
AND WHENEVER EVERYBODY'S REVISING A MASTER, THEY REFER TO EXHIBIT F OR WHATEVER OF THE PUG DEVELOPMENT AGREEMENT, WHICH IS SECTION 5.88, WHICH IS A EXHIBIT PART OF THE DOCUMENT.
BUT ANYHOW, AND IN THAT THEY, IN THAT 5.8 THING, THEY DO NOT PUT ANY TIME LIMITS, BUT IT ALSO SAYS THAT THAT SECTION IS A, UM, FROM A MEMORY CORRECTLY, THE MINIMUM STANDARDS.
SO I DON'T KNOW WHY THINGS COULDN'T BE ADDED TO IT, BUT ANYHOW, I'M NOT THE TYPE OF ATTORNEY, BUT I, I THINK IT WOULD BE WISE TO TRY TO JUST GET A HOLD ON WHAT THE TIME LIMITS ARE AS OPPOSED TO DEFAULTING TO 25, 30 YEARS PLUS FIVE YEAR TO FIVE-YEAR EXTENSIONS.
AND THEN I THINK WE'RE GETTING A LITTLE SIDE OFF TRACK HERE, BUT IT IS, IT IS A FASCINATING CONVERSATION ABOUT THE LAWS FOR PUD IN SOUTH CAROLINA AND HOW THEY APPLY AND WHAT YOU CAN DO ONCE ONE IS SIGNED AND HOW YOU'RE STUCK WITH IT OR NOT STUCK WITH IT.
BUT THAT'S ALSO PART OF WHAT WE COUNT ON STAFF FOR IS TELLING US LEGALLY WHAT WE CAN AND CAN'T DO.
AND, UM, BUT ANYWAYS, TO MR. KEELS POINT, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I THINK WOULD BE HELPFUL IN THIS DOCUMENT IS A MAP OF THE PUD AND WHERE THE UDL APPLIES.
AND IT WOULD BE USEFUL ON THAT MAP TO SEE WHAT PERCENTAGE OF BUILD-OUT WE HAVE ON THE, AS IT PERTAINS TO THOSE PUD AND EVEN INCLUDE THE EXPIRATION DATES, BE USEFUL BACK.
UM, ONE OF THE THINGS I STRUGGLE WITH IS THIS FIGURE 8.1 ON PAGE ONE 20 THAT SHOWS ALL OF THAT UNDEVELOPED OPEN SPACE, UM, WHICH IS SUBSTANTIAL WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT THE TOTAL LAND USE AREA FOR TOWN OF BLUFFTON.
AND THERE'S NOT A MAP THAT SHOWS ME WHERE THAT'S AT NOW.
I HAPPEN TO KNOW A LOT OF THAT PROBABLY IN PALMETTO BLUFF.
UM, BUT SEEING WHERE THOSE AREAS, I MEAN, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE FLEET FUTURE LAND USE MAP, AND YOU COMPARE IT WITH THE EXISTING LAND USE MAP, IT GIVES YOU A PRETTY GOOD IDEA OF THAT UNDEVELOPED OPEN SPACE WHERE THAT'S AT, BUT YOU HAVE TO LOOK REALLY CLOSELY.
AND BY THE WAY, IT LOOKS REALLY GREEN.
[00:50:01]
OH, BLUFFTON SO PRETTY INGRAINED.AND THEN IF YOU ONLY, IF YOU COMPARE IT WITH THE FUTURE LAND USE MAP, DO YOU REALIZE HOW MUCH GREEN IS NOW GONE? UH, SO MAPPING THIS AND YOU HAVE THE INFORMATION.
YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THE EXISTING AND THE FUTURE.
UM, SO THAT WOULD BE A USEFUL TOOL IN TERMS OF UNDERSTANDING HOW WE'RE DEVELOPING.
THEN THE OTHER PART OF THAT, THAT'S GONNA FEED THAT NARRATIVE, IT'S UNDERSTANDING THE DISC DENSITY, UM, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, AS YOU WELL KNOW, A LOT OF PALMETTO BLUFF ARE THESE ESTATE LOTS, SO THEY'RE NOT HIGHLY DENSE.
THEY JUST TAKE UP A LOT OF AREA.
UM, SO I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S A WAY THAT WE CAN APPLY THIS UNDEVELOPED OPEN SPACE MAP AND SOME KIND OF A DENSITY PATTERN IN TERMS OF WHERE THE PEOPLE MOST COMPACTLY GOING TO BE.
UM, CAUSE I THINK THAT THAT'S PART OF A CONVERSATION PIECE OF, YOU KNOW, BACK TO MR WETMORE'S POINTS, WHERE DO WE WANT THOSE TOWNHOMES, THAT, THAT MIDDLE HOUSING TO GO, THE, YOU KNOW, THE DUPLEXES AND THE APARTMENTS.
UM, SO WE CAN START WITH LOOKING AT WHAT THAT BALANCE REALLY MEANS IN THE TERMS OF THE SCOPE OF OUR DEVELOPMENT AREA.
IF I CAN JUST ADD ONE MORE THING TO THAT.
UM, I THINK IT WOULD BE VERY HELPFUL IF WE HAD, I APPRECIATE THE DIFFERENT LEGENDS ON THE FUTURE AND THE EXISTING LAND USE MAPS AND THAT THEY'RE SHOWING ME DIFFERENT THINGS, BUT IT WOULD BE REALLY HELPFUL TO HAVE EXISTING AND FUTURE WITH BOTH IDENTICAL LEGENDS FOR THE TWO DIFFERENT WAYS THAT YOU'RE SHOWING IT SO THAT THEY ARE ESSENTIALLY APPLES TO APPLES, THE COLORS MEAN THE SAME THING.
UM, AND WE CAN KIND OF SEE WHAT'S DEVELOPED AND WHAT'S PROPOSED FOR DEVELOPMENT BECAUSE THEY HAVE SIMILAR COLORS, BUT THE COLORS ARE LIKE THE LEGEND ISN'T THE SAME, UM, WHICH MAKES IT VERY HARD TO COMPARE.
I THINK IT WOULD BE HELPFUL IF THEY BOTH WERE SPEAKING THE SAME LANGUAGE AND MAYBE WE NEED BOTH VERSIONS OF IT FUTURE AND EXISTING, BUT I'M NOT SURE THAT ONE IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN THE OTHER IN TERMS OF THE LEGEND THAT YOU HAVE.
I THINK WE NEED ALL OF THAT INFORMATION, BUT TO HAVE IT SIDE BY SIDE AND IN BOTH CONSISTENT LEGENDS WOULD BE HELPFUL.
I THINK BEING ABLE TO PREPARE OBVIOUSLY IS CRITICAL THERE.
UM, AND WE, YOU KNOW, EACH OF THOSE POINTS THAT WERE JUST MADE PREVIOUSLY, I THINK THOSE ARE THINGS WE CAN QUITE EASILY TACKLE AND INTEGRATE.
YOU DID THE ONE COMMENT ABOUT UNDEVELOPED OPEN SPACE.
I MEAN, IT DOESN'T MEAN THAT'S GREEN IN PERPETUITY, RIGHT? I MEAN, I THINK WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HIGH GROUND THERE.
SO I THINK, UM, IF THERE'S A WAY TO, TO CODE AND ALSO TO MAP THAT, I THINK IT MAY, WE MAY BE ABLE TO ACCOMPLISH THAT WITHIN THE EXISTING LAND USE, HONESTLY.
SO I'M, I'M GONNA LOOK AT THAT AND SEE WHAT WE CAN DO.
UM, UH, BUT IT NECESSARILY MADE US NEEDED TO MAKE A NEW MAP WITH THE PUD COMMENT IN TERMS OF MAPPING THAT, UH, WE'VE GOT A SMALL EXHIBIT TO THAT EFFECT THAT IS ON PAGE 1 21.
UH, BUT I THINK WITHIN THIS, WE COULD ACTUALLY, UM, BLOW THIS UP TO BE A MORE ROBUST GRAPHIC TO GET AT WHAT I THINK IS BEING DISCUSSED HERE IN TERMS OF NOT JUST WHERE THE PUD IS, ARE, BUT ALSO THE NAMES OF THOSE PDS, UH, THE EXPIRY DATES FOR EACH OF THEM AND, UH, SOME NOTION, UH, AROUND, YOU KNOW, UH, A BUILD-OUT, UH, MAYBE IT CAUSE IN PERCENTAGES AND UNITS.
I'M NOT SURE, YOU KNOW, THE CRITICAL THING HERE.
I THINK DRIVING A LOT OF THIS CONVERSATION AS DWELLING UNITS.
SO I, I WOULD BE FIRST INCLINED TO INCLUDE THAT INFORMATION ON THERE.
LIKE WHAT'S STILL IN THE HOPPER, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN, IN TERMS OF ROOFTOPS, UH, AND THE BILL BACK, UH, YOU KNOW, FROM, UH, FROM THAT DATA, I THINK A LOT OF THAT IS GOING TO BE THE COORDINATION BETWEEN THE MOBILE TOWN HALL PRESENTATION THAT TALKS ABOUT THAT IF THAT DATA CAN GET CLEANED UP AND CORRECTED, BUT I PERSONALLY WOULD BE OF THE SAME THOUGHT THAT UNITS IS MORE VALUABLE, ESPECIALLY AS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SCHOOLS, AS WE'RE TALKING ABOUT FACILITIES AS WHERE WE NEED TO KIND OF REALLY UNDERSTAND HOW MANY MORE RESIDENTS ARE GOING TO HAVE.
AND SO AT LEAST ON THE RESIDENTIAL SIDE, I WOULD MUCH PREFER SEE THAT IN TERMS OF UNITS, THEN A PERCENTAGE OF BUILD OUT.
YEAH, WE THAT'S, THE CURRENCY WE DEAL IN, RIGHT.
AND PLANNING IS UNITS, RIGHT? I MEAN, WE DON'T KNOW WHO'S GOING TO LIVE IN THEM.
EVENTUALLY WE ASSUME KIND OF THE MEDIAN FAMILY SIZE WILL PREVAIL.
UM, UH, BUT YOU KNOW, AS WE START TO THINK ABOUT PROJECTIONS, UH, WE HAVE TO THINK ABOUT REAL ESTATE FIRST AND HOW THOSE PLANS WERE PREPARED ORIGINALLY AND ENTITLED ORIGINALLY.
AND THAT'S WHY, UM, YOU KNOW, THE UNIT QUESTION BECOMES THE, THE, THE, THE FIRST PIECE WE WOULD DO THE REST OF THOSE BECOME AN ASSUMPTIONS BASED AROUND THAT BUILD OUT.
SO, ABSOLUTELY WELL, AND THERE, THERE IS A SLIDE THAT HAS SOME RAW DATA ON IT IN THAT PRESENTATION THAT INCLUDES EXPIRATION DATES OF PDS.
THEY NEED TO BE VERIFIED AND UPDATED IF, IF THAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN, AS WELL AS RESIDENTIAL DWELLING UNITS, UM, ALLOWED AND BUILT.
UM, AND THEN, LIKE I WAS SAYING BEFORE, THE BIG CHALLENGE WITH COMMERCIAL IS IT'S PER UNIT RESIDENTIAL PER ACRE COMMERCIAL.
SO THERE'S NO WAY THAT THEY NEED TO BE TWO SEPARATE, AND THAT'S PROBABLY WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN TO THAT
[00:55:01]
TOWN PRESENTATION IS IT'LL BE TWO SEPARATE THINGS.YOU CAN'T JUST KIND OF COMBINE THEM AND SAY, OKAY, IT'S 52% DEVELOPED AS A WHOLE.
UM, BUT YEAH, THAT, THAT RAW DATA IS IN THERE.
I DON'T KNOW WHERE THEY GOT IT FROM, BUT I'M SURE THE TOWN KEEPS PRETTY CLOSE TRACK ON ALL THOSE NUMBERS.
UM, ONE OTHER THOUGHT I HAVE, I WILL HAVE MANY THOUGHTS, BUT, UH, ONE THOUGHT I HAD IN THIS KIND OF, UH, RELATES TO, UH, CHAIRMAN DEPAS NOT CHAIRMAN COMMISSIONER DEPAS, UH, COMMENTS ABOUT, AGAIN, THAT COMPARISON CHART OF EXISTING LAND USES VERSUS, UH, FUTURE LAND USES BECAUSE WHEN IT COMES TO, UH, THE FUTURE LAND USE PLAN, WHEN YOU COME TO THAT TOWN CENTER, UM, I THINK YOU LOSE ON THAT FUTURE LAND USE MAP.
SO MUCH OF WHAT'S REALLY HAPPENING DOWNTOWN, UM, AND WHAT WE REALLY WANT TO SEE DOWNTOWN IN TERMS OF COMMERCIAL PRODUCT, IN TERMS OF CIVIC PRODUCT, IN TERMS OF, UH, PARKS, THINGS LIKE THAT.
AND SO WHEN YOU OUT, WHEN YOU BLOW UP THE DOWNTOWN, BUT ALL IT IS IS JUST A BIG, GIANT, DARK BLUE BLOB.
SO THIS MAY GO BACK TO KIND OF WHAT SHE WAS SAYING.
IT'S APPLES TO APPLES COMPARISON THAT THAT MAY HELP KIND OF CLARIFY SOME OF WHAT'S HAPPENING ON THIS FEATURE LAND USE MAP.
I TAKE THAT POINT COMMISSIONER.
I THINK ONE OF THE DIFFICULTIES WE HAVE IN, IN, IN DOING THAT, THAT TRANSITION FROM LAND EXISTING LAND USE TO THE FUTURE LAND USE CONVERSATION IS AS WE'VE CREATED THE MAP THAT YOU'RE SEEING, ESPECIALLY AROUND A FUTURE, WE'RE REALLY TRYING TO THINK IN TERMS OF DEVELOPMENT, CHARACTER DISTRICTS, RIGHT.
WHICH, UM, GETS OUT OF THE, KIND OF THE GRANULAR PARCEL BY PARCEL DISCUSSION AND REALLY TRIES TO, UH, YOU KNOW, UM, UH, UH, UH, UH, LASSO OF PLACES THAT HAVE A LIKE FEEL.
UM, AND OBVIOUSLY ONE OF THE KEY THINGS THAT, THAT MAKES OLD TOWN OLD TOWN IS THE KIND OF THE ECLECTIC NATURE OF USE.
UM, THE, UM, UH, YOU KNOW, THE, THE INTERACTION OF COMPLIMENTARY USES MEANING RESIDENTIAL, COMMERCIAL, THOSE PIECES.
SO I THINK WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO, WHERE OBVIOUSLY WE CAN, WE CAN ITERATE THIS SIGNIFICANTLY, BUT WE'RE TRYING TO COMMUNICATE THAT IT IS THAT KIND OF INTEGRATED PIECE THAT MAKES THAT PLACE SPECIAL.
AND THE DESCRIPTION IS TRYING TO GET ALONG THAT AS WELL.
BUT I, I CERTAINLY TAKE YOUR POINT, UM, TRYING TO MAKE THAT CLEAR.
I THINK IN THE GRAPHIC WE CAN, WE CAN WORK HARD ON THAT.
I MEAN, I JUST THINK IT'S HARD TO UNDERSTAND.
I MEAN, I KNOW THERE'S A LOT OF PARCELS WITHIN OLD TOWN.
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT INFILLING AND WHAT I'M LOOKING AT IS SOMETHING ON MY EXISTING LAND USE MAP THAT GIVES ME A PRETTY STRONG IDEA OF WHERE COMMERCIAL IS VERSUS RESIDENTIAL PRODUCT AND WHERE MY PARKS ARE.
AND I'VE GOT NO IDEA WHAT'S REALLY GOING TO HAPPEN WITH ALL OF THAT INFILL MOVING FORWARD.
UM, YOU KNOW, IS THAT GONNA, IS THAT LOOKING LIKE ALL RED AS WE GO ALONG MAY RIVER ROAD, IS THAT STILL SPOTTY FORMS OF, YOU KNOW, COMMERCIAL THAT WE'VE GOT HERE? DO WE NEED TO BE LOOKING AT KIND OF POCKETING SOME PARKS AND IT JUST MAKES IT REALLY CHALLENGING WHEN YOU IT'S PARTICULARLY THIS OLD TOWN THAT I'M HAVING A STRUGGLE WITH, BECAUSE AGAIN, BLOWING IT UP, BUT I HAVE NO IDEA.
LIKE, WE WANT TO TALK ABOUT SO MUCH ABOUT INFILL AND HOW WE'RE GOING TO ARCHITECT AND SHAPE AND MOLD THIS OLD TOWN.
AND YET I DON'T HAVE ANY CLEAR DIRECTION ON WHAT THAT SHOULD LOOK LIKE.
AND I THINK HE, UM, AGAIN, NOT, NOT IN ALL, ANY WAY, TRYING TO BE DEFENSIVE, YOU KNOW, ON THIS PARTICULAR PIECE, BUT AS WE TALK ABOUT, WE TALK ABOUT OLD TOWN, UM, AND THE COMPLEXITY OF THAT DISTRICT AND THE NUANCE OF EACH DESCRIPT DISCUSSION THAT NEEDS TO OCCUR AS INFILL PROJECTS, ESPECIALLY, YOU KNOW, BEGIN TO BE DISCUSSED.
AND THEN YOU GET TO MORE SPECIFIC DEVELOPMENT PLANS.
ONE OF THE RECOMMENDATIONS WITHIN THE STAFF THAT STAFF HAD PROPOSED THAT, YOU KNOW, GET SUPPORTED IS REALLY KIND OF REVISITING THAT THEN MASTER GUIDELINES SET, YOU KNOW, FOR THAT DISTRICT IN PARTICULAR, AS WE THINK ABOUT KIND OF THE LAST OF, YOU KNOW, HOWEVER YOU WANT TO DEFINE THE BOUNDARY FOR IT, UM, YOU KNOW, W WHAT ARE OUR GUIDELINES, WHAT ARE OUR STANDARDS? WHAT IS OUR MODE OF, OF, OF, UH, EVALUATING THE, UM, THE CHARACTER AND CONTRIBUTION OF EACH PROJECT YOU DEVELOPMENT PRESSURE IN THAT ZONE IS NOT GOING TO ABATE.
I MEAN, YOU, IT'S A PLACE PEOPLE WANT TO BE RIGHT.
AND, UM, YOU KNOW, FRANKLY, ONE OF THE DIFFICULTIES OF, OF, OF SHOWING USE ON THE PARCEL IS YOU MAY HAVE MULTIPLE USES ON ONE, YOU KNOW, AND THAT'S KIND OF WHAT CONTRIBUTES TO THE GREATNESS OF IT.
UM, BUT I, I DO TAKE YOUR POINT THAT THAT'S AN AREA THAT'S JUST SO CRITICAL, BUT IT'S LIKE IN ALL PLACES, IT'S, IT'S PROBABLY THE HARDEST PLACE TO QUICKLY DEFINE, YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN, WHAT MAKES IT GREAT, YOU KNOW, UH, AND I, I REALLY DO THINK IT NECESSITATES A CLOSER, DEEPER, RICHER, UM, YOU KNOW, LOOK IN ONE THAT CONTINUES THE LEGACY, UH, YOU KNOW, A PREVIOUS WORK LIKE THAT.
[01:00:01]
GREAT POINT, UM, AND REFERENCING, YOU KNOW, STAFF'S T STANDS ON THIS WHERE THAT MASTER PLAN FOR OLD TOWNS HAS SUCH A, YOU KNOW, A GREAT WEIGHT.AND I THINK THAT, THAT SHOULDN'T THEN SHOWS THE IMPERATIVE OF READDRESSING THAT MASTER PLAN, BECAUSE SO MUCH OF OUR, YOU KNOW, LIKE YOU SAID, THERE'S SO MUCH GROWTH AND DEVELOPMENT PRESSURE ON THAT OLD TOWN.
IF WE DON'T GET ON THAT MASTER PLAN QUICKLY, IT CAN, IT CAN SPIRAL OUT OF OUR CONTROL, REALLY, YOU KNOW, BAILEY REALLY BEING ABLE TO CAPTURE WHAT IT IS THAT WE WANT.
WE'VE, WE'VE ALREADY COMPROMISED IN SO MANY WAYS IN OUR OLD TOWN.
AND I JUST THINK IF WE DON'T GET ON TOP OF OUR MASTER PLAN FOR OLD TOWN FAST, UM, AND LIKE YOU SAID, THAT THAT CAN, THAT CAN AND HAS PROVIDED OUR DIRECTION IN THE PAST.
AND I THINK THAT HELPS CLARIFY AT LEAST MY POSITION, I THINK SOFTENS MY POSITION ON GIVING THAT ANY MORE DIRECTION WITHIN THIS DOCUMENT.
BUT THANKS COMMISSIONER, I HAVE JUST SEEN, UM, YOU KNOW, WHEN, WHEN YOU HAVE ISSUES THAT BECOME, YOU KNOW, AS, AS ZOOMED IN, AS THOSE CAN BECOME, IT REALLY DOES TRULY NECESSITATE A PROCESS UNTO ITSELF.
UM, YOU KNOW, INVOLVING EXPERTS IN A WIDE RANGE OF FIELDS.
AND THAT PREVIOUS PLAN WAS VERY WELL EXECUTED.
UM, YOU KNOW, I WOULD SAY FROM MY POSITION, BUT I THINK THINGS HAVE CHANGED EVEN SINCE THAT WAS, YOU KNOW, ADOPTED AND, UM, YOU KNOW, IT'S JUST CRITICAL TO KEEP, UH, YOU KNOW, KEEP THAT LEGACY UP, YOU KNOW, KEEP THAT GOING, BEING PROACTIVE, I SHOULD SAY.
UM, I WOULD SAY ANOTHER THING ON THAT FUTURE LAND USE THAT RESIDENTIAL ESTATE COLOR IN THAT SUBURBAN LIVING COLOR ARE JUST SO CLOSE AND IT BECOMES TO ME MORE PROBLEMATIC WHEN YOU START LOOKING AT THE AREAS THAT ARE OUTSIDE OF THE TOWN LIMITS.
I THINK IT'S A LITTLE EASIER TO TELL WITHIN THOSE TOWN LIMITS PERHAPS WHERE THOSE COLOR VARIATIONS ARE, BUT WHEN YOU START 50% OPACITY OR 80% OF CAPACITY OR WHATEVER ON THE OUTSIDE OF OUR TOWN LIMITS, IT BECOMES A LITTLE UNCLEAR AS TO WHAT THAT MEANS FOR THOSE ADJACENT PROPERTIES, WHETHER THEY'RE RESIDENTIAL ESTATE OR SUBURBAN LIVING.
UM, ADDITIONALLY, I WAS LOOKING AT, UM, PALMETTO BLUFF AND, UH, AND THIS IS REALLY, I THINK, MORE, UH, PERTAINING TO, WELL, I THOUGHT I SAW IT I'M RECALLING IT, THAT I WAS LOOKING AT THE FUTURE LAND USE.
THERE ARE SOME REALLY DENSE PARTS OF PALMETTO BLUFF THAT ARE IDENTIFIED AS RESIDENTIAL ESTATE, WHICH I THINK IS KIND OF A BIT OF A MISNOMER.
UM, AND I'M ACTUALLY KIND OF CURIOUS SINCE IT, SINCE WE'RE GOING INTO SOME OF THESE AREAS AND GIVING A LITTLE MORE DETAIL IN TERMS OF WHAT'S HAPPENING IN THERE.
I WONDER IF IT'S APPROPRIATE TO ALSO BE LOOKING AT PALMETTO BLUFF SPECIFICALLY, CAUSE YOU'RE LOOKING AT, UM, WHERE THE BIG HOUSE IS GOING ON THE SOUTH END, WHICH IS ACTUALLY MUCH MORE LIKE YOU'VE ALREADY PREVIOUSLY IDENTIFIED.
UM, THEN THIS FUTURE LAND USE MAP REALLY DETAILS OUT OR SHOWS OR DEMONSTRATES OR GIVES AN IMAGE OF NO, YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT.
I MEAN, THERE ARE DENSE, UM, YEAH, ACTUALLY THE WORD IS RIGHT.
I THINK IT RELATIVELY SPEAKING, SOME DENSE DEVELOPMENT THAT'S OCCURRED, YOU KNOW, WITHIN THAT, THAT, THAT, UH, PLANT COMMUNITY TO SOUTH, UM, W YOU KNOW, WITHIN THE EXISTING LAND USE MAPS, YOU HAVE TO SQUINT TO SEE IT.
THAT'S ONE OF THE PROBLEMS WITH THE GEOGRAPHY BEING AS LARGE AS IT IS.
UM, WE HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY, I THINK, WITHIN THE WEB, IN A WEB VERSION OF THIS, WHEN YOU CAN ACTUALLY ZOOM IN AND SCROLL THROUGH, BE A LITTLE BIT EASIER TO VIEW, BUT WE DO TRY TO CALL THAT OUT, BUT IT IS WITHIN A SEA OF, OF OBVIOUSLY RESIDENTIAL THAT SURROUNDS THAT DEVELOPMENT.
I APPRECIATE THOSE COMMENTS COMMISSIONER, UM, IN AN ESSENCE OF KEEPING TIME.
SO WE HAVE ENOUGH TIME FOR THE OTHER, UM, OKAY.
I CAN PROVIDE MORE, VERY SPECIFIC COMMENTS.
THERE'S SOME VERY SPECIFIC LAND USE MAP COMMENTS, AND I CAN I'M HA I KNOW I HAVE, I'VE NOT GOTTEN MY, MY HOMEWORK DONE, BUT I CAN PROVIDE MUCH MORE DETAILED COMMENTS TO FINISH THIS OUT.
UM, SO THAT WILL ADDRESS A MAJORITY OF MY TYPE THOSE OUT.
I JUST HAVEN'T FINISHED ALL MY THAT'S.
IF YOU HAVE ANY OTHER COMMENTS, ANYONE JUST TALK THEM OUT, BUT LET'S, UM, JUST BECAUSE IT'S, SO WE GIVE ENOUGH TIME FOR THE NEXT CHAPTER YOU WANT TO, IF THERE ARE NO OTHER OUTSTANDING ISSUES OR ITEMS ANYONE WANTS TO TALK ABOUT REGARDING LAND USE.
AND AS A COMMISSIONER, AS YOU MENTIONED, UM, IF YOU DO HAVE FOLLOW UP, JUST SHARE IT WITH ME, UM, SPECIFIC OR OTHERWISE, UM, YOU KNOW, I, I, WE NEED THAT INFORMATION.
SO LET'S, LET'S QUICKLY MOVE ON TO OUR OTHER, UM, TOPIC FOR THIS EVENING, WHICH IS DEALING WITH HOUSING, UH, YOU KNOW, ANOTHER, NOT SMALL TOPIC, I THINK AS WE, UH, WE THINK ABOUT, YOU KNOW, OUR, OUR, OUR PLAN, UM, YOU KNOW, SOME MINIMAL COMMENTS HERE WITHIN THE DRAFT AS, AS, AS
[01:05:01]
WE REVIEWED IT.HOWEVER, I THINK THERE IS A PRETTY SIGNIFICANT DISCUSSION.
AGAIN, IT TOLD YOU HOW THESE THINGS TO RELATE, RIGHT? I MEAN, A PRETTY SIGNIFICANT DISCUSSION AS WE USE THIS PHRASE IS TWO WORD PHRASE BUILD OUT, RIGHT? WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? ESPECIALLY, UM, OUR CONVERSATION AROUND THE ENTITLED DEVELOPMENT.
AND WHEN I'M SAYING THAT I'M REALLY THINKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THE PLAN DEVELOPMENT, THE PLANNED UNIT DEVELOPMENT GROWTH THAT'S THAT HAS BEEN, UM, APPROVED, UM, SOME OF WHICH HAS OCCURRED, UM, YOU KNOW, OVER, UH, YEARS, SOME OF WHICH HAS OCCURRED OVER MORE THAN A DECADE, YOU KNOW, IN TERMS OF, OF, OF CONSTRUCTION AND HOME BUILDING A COMMERCIAL BUILDING AND EVENTUALLY MARKET ABSORPTION, YOU DON'T HAVE ANY PROBLEM WITH THAT LAST PIECE, RIGHT? I MEAN, THERE'S, UH, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT I'VE LOOKED INTO AS, AS WAS NOTED IN A PREVIOUS, UM, SESSION HERE, WE TALKED ABOUT PEOPLE IS WHO'S COMING TO BLUFFTON WHO MAKES UP THIS, THIS POPULATION.
AND IT'S ACTUALLY REALLY INTERESTING AS YOU DIG INTO THE IRS DATA AROUND MIGRATION PATTERNS TO SEE THAT NUMBER ONE, SOUTH CAROLINA IS ATTRACTING MORE OUT OF STATE, UM, MIGRATION THAN ANY OTHER STATE IN THE UNITED STATES.
AND YOUR PARTICULAR REGION IS LEADING WITHIN SOUTH CAROLINA.
UH, NOW WHAT DOES THAT MEAN ON ITS FACE? NOT MUCH, BUT AS YOU START TO UNPACK THE IDEA OF HOW YOUR, SOME OF YOUR BASE DEMOGRAPHICS HAVE SHIFTED OVER THAT SAME PERIOD, SHIFTING WEALTHIER, SHIFTING OLDER, WHATEVER THAT MIGHT BE, IT'S PRETTY CLEAR THROUGH THOSE STATISTICS ABOUT WHO IS BEING ATTRACTED INTO YOUR COMMUNITY AND, UM, WHO IS ABSORBING THIS, THESE UNITS, YOU KNOW, AS THEY COME ONLINE.
SO IT'S, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE THINK ABOUT WITHIN HOUSING, UH, YOU KNOW, CHAPTERS, AGAIN, JUST LIKE WITH TRANSPORTATION OR WITH ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT OR WHATEVER IT MIGHT BE, YOU DO NOT EXIST IN A VACUUM.
AND, UM, UH, THINKING ABOUT THE INFLOW AND THE OUTFLOW, THE DAILY POPULATION HERE ARE FOLKS THAT WORK IN BLUFFTON, BUT MAY NOT LIVE HERE, FOLKS THAT LIVE HERE, BUT WORK ELSEWHERE.
ALL OF THESE PIECES ARE, ARE, ARE CRITICAL TO, UM, I THINK TO APPLY TO THIS CONVER CONVERSATION, UM, OVERALL, AND I, I, THE LAST THING I'LL SAY, JUST AS A PRIMING PIECE, BEFORE WE GET A JUMP INTO SOME DISCUSSION SPECIFIC TO THIS CHAPTER IS, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE CANARIES IN THE COAL MINE THAT WE WOULD LOOK AT IN TERMS OF JUST, JUST DEMAND.
IT MAY SOUND SMALL, BUT IT'S JUST THE RENTAL VACANCY, YOU KNOW, WITHIN A COMMUNITY.
AND ONE OF THE THINGS I WAS VERY, VERY STRUCK BY, AS WE DID OUR ANALYSIS, UM, IN BLUFFTON, IT MAY NOT SHOCK YOU.
UM, BUT THERE'S, IT'S PRETTY WELL CLOSE TO ZERO IN TERMS OF RENTAL CAPACITY OR EXCUSE ME, VACANCY OR UNITS AVAILABLE.
UH, IT'S FAIRLY CONSISTENT, I THINK, YOU KNOW, UH, AROUND, UM, UH, LOW CRUNCH IN TERMS OF IT BEING LOW, JUST IN TERMS OF THERE BEING STRONG DEMAND, LIMITED SUPPLY, BUT IT IS THAT DEMAND AND SUPPLY QUESTION THAT REALLY, YOU KNOW, DOMINATED OUR RESEARCH AND ANALYSIS WITHIN THIS SECTION AND WHAT WE TRIED TO HIT ON AND THINKING ABOUT TO, UM, YOU KNOW, UH, THESE QUESTIONS THAT AROSE THROUGH PUBLIC COMMENT AND DISCUSSION STAKEHOLDER DISCUSSION ABOUT THE IDEA OF AFFORDABILITY.
AND I THINK THAT TERM SORT OF BROADLY APPLIED, YOU KNOW, AFFORDABILITY IS NOT AN, A NUMBER.
YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN? IT'S VERY RELATIVE TO THE COST OF LIVING COST OF HOUSING, UH, YOU KNOW, VOLUME OF UNITS COMING ON BOARD, WHATEVER THAT MIGHT BE.
UM, BUT AFFORDABILITY IS A TERM THAT HAS COME UP QUITE A BIT, I THINK IN OUR DISCUSSIONS AND ONE THAT I ACTUALLY BELIEVE THAT YOU ALL, UM, YOU KNOW, ACTUALLY KIND OF IN THE VANGUARD AND COMMUNITIES LIKE YOUR OWN, UH, IN TRYING TO FIND THE RIGHT EXPERIMENTS THAN TRYING TO INVEST IN THOSE EXPERIMENTS AND SEEING WHAT YOU CAN DO TO AFFECT WHAT IS A VERY MARKET LED, UM, UH, SYSTEM.
SO I WILL SHUT UP NOW AND TALK ABOUT, MAYBE WE START WITH THIS TERM OF BUILD OUT WHAT THAT MEANS.
I THINK WE'VE HAD SOME GOOD CONVERSATION, YOU KNOW, ABOUT THAT.
AND, UM, BUT ANY THOUGHTS ON THIS HOUSING CHAPTER, YOU KNOW WHAT THIS MEANS, I THINK TO THE QUALITY OF LIFE AND IN BLUFFTON OVERALL, I MEAN, I'M, SINCE THE PUBLIC HAS A LOT OF COMMENTS, I'D LOVE TO, THAT'S WHERE I START WITH THAT.
UM, CARRIE, DO YOU WANT TO GO AHEAD AND START WITH THE PUBLIC COMMENTS, MR. MCCRACKEN, KYLE, WE'RE GOING TO START WITH PUBLIC COMMENTS BEFORE WE GO.
I MET HIM JEFFERSON AND MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION.
UH, I THINK THE CHAPTER ON HOUSING, COBBLER'S TOTAL HIERARCHY OF ALL THE LEXICON OF HOUSING WITH THE EXCEPTION OF NO HOUSE.
[01:10:01]
OF HOMELESS.AND, AND I RECALL, I DON'T KNOW THE MAGNITUDE OF IT, BUT I KNOW ONCE UPON A TIME BEFORE THE FRONT LOTS INSTALLED FAR MORE SOLD, A GENTLEMAN TOOK RESIDENCE IN THE MORNING OF THE LOCKS.
HE MADE A BED OUT OF PALMETTO FROND, AND EVEN BROUGHT IN HIS OWN CHAIR.
SO I KNOW HOMELESSNESS EXISTS.
I, AS I SAY, I DON'T KNOW THE BANK TO, TO MAYBE THE POLICE CAN HELP US WITH IT, BUT I THINK IT'S SOMETHING THAT NEEDS TO BE RECOGNIZED, UH, IN THE COMPREHENSIVE PLANS AND SOMETHING THAT NEEDS TO BE MONITORED.
UH, AT FOUR 10 THIS AFTERNOON, I WAS PRIVY TO A CONVERSATION TELEPHONIC CONVERSATION FROM BLUFFTON TO LAKE GENEVA, WISCONSIN.
SO YOU CAN PUT A HUNDRED PERCENT RELIABILITY IN THAT INFORMATION, BUT HE MENTIONED, UH, THEY MENTIONED THAT BUFORD COUNTY HAD, UH, DEVELOPED ON, ON ALL FISH THAT BUFORD COUNTY DOES NOT CALL IT HOMELESS, HOMELESSNESS.
THEY, THEY ARE DEAL AND TRANSITIONAL HOUSING QUOTE ON QUOTE FOR HOMELESS AND NATIVE PEOPLES.
AND IT MIGHT BE SOMETHING THAT STAFF CAN MAKE A NOTE OF AND TOUCH WITH DIFFERENT COUNTY.
AND SHE, WHERE THEY ARE ON THE SUBJECT OF HOMELESS.
THIS IS NOT SOMETHING THAT MUNICIPALITIES CAN SOLVE ON THEIR OWN, BUT MAYBE IT'S SOMETHING THAT, UM, SOMETHING THAT THE COUNTY AND THE MUNICIPALITY CAN DEAL WITH TOGETHER.
SO THAT'S SOMETHING TO LOOK AT.
CARLA MENTIONED A FEW MINUTES AGO, THIS IS AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT SUBJECT CALL ASK SORT OF RHETORICALLY, WHO IS COMING TO BLUFFTON.
AND I REMEMBER AS A PRE TEENAGER, I DON'T KNOW WHETHER IT STILL APPLIES, BUT BLUFFTON IS WHERE THE RICH COME TO PLAY.
THE OLD COME TO DIE AND THE POOR COME TO MAKE A LIVING.
THANK YOU SHOULD PUT THAT IN THERE.
YOU KNOW, THERE'S AN INTERESTING STATISTIC, I THINK WILL PLAY INTO THIS.
YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT POPULATION GROWTH HERE.
I THINK THE 2020 CENSUS HAD THE TOWN OF BLUFFTON AT 29,000 AND CHANGE.
LAST MONTH, THEY RELEASED THE NUMBERS OF POPULATION GROWTH BETWEEN JUNE OF 2020 AND JUNE OF 2021 BLUFFED AND HAD THE MOST NEW RESIDENTS OF ANY CITY IN THE STATE AT THIRTY FOUR HUNDRED AND FIFTY SEVEN NEW RESIDENTS.
SO WE GREW BY OVER 10% IN ONE YEAR.
DOES THAT SHOCK YOU DOES THAT SHOCK YOU COMMISSION A LITTLE BIT? UM, WHAT SHOCKS ME EVEN MORE IS HARTSVILLE WAS, UM, NOT TOO FAR BEHIND US AND THEY DON'T HAVE THE INFRASTRUCTURE WE HAVE AND OURS NEEDS TO BE IMPROVED.
SO YEAH, NOT, NOT TO PUSH IT OFF SOMEWHERE ELSE, BUT IT PLAYS INTO WHAT WAS MENTIONED BEFORE BY MR. KEEL THAT WE'VE GOT, UH, WE GOTTA BE THINKING ABOUT WHAT'S AROUND US, SPECIFICALLY AN AREA THAT'S GOING TO BE GROWING AS MUCH, IF NOT MORE THAN US.
AND I, I KNOW WE'RE ON HOUSING, SO I DIDN'T WANT TO, BUT THE NUMBER OF NEW RESIDENTS THAT ARE COMING HERE IS WHY THE APARTMENTS ARE ALL FULL AND WHY THE HOUSES ARE RUNNING A TWO YEAR LEAD TIME ON BUILDING RIGHT NOW.
WELL, MY HOUSING PRICES HAVE SKYROCKETED WHEN YOU, WHEN YOU GO LOOK AT HOUSING PRICES FROM A YEAR OR TWO AGO, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT A UNIT THAT WAS 300,000 IS NOW 400, 450,000.
I MEAN, IT IS JUST ASTRONOMICAL, THE PRICE INCREASE AND THAT'S NOT AFFECTING JUST PEOPLE ARE THAT ARE AT THE BOTTOM 25%.
THAT IS AFFECTING 50% OF THE MIDDLE PORTION OF OUR POPULATION BASE.
YOU'VE GOT TO KIND OF THINK ABOUT THE HOUSING MARKET, LIKE A GAME OF TUG, A ROPE, RIGHT, WHERE YOU GOT, YOU KNOW, THE PURE MARKET ON THE RIGHT SIDE, YOU'VE GOT THE FORCES TRYING TO REMAIN, KEEP THINGS AFFORDABLE ON THE LEFT SIDE.
AND WHAT WE'VE SEEN NATIONALLY, UH, THROUGH THE PANDEMIC IS THE RIGHT SIDE.
THE, THE MARKET POOL IS WINNING BIG TIME.
UH, YOU'VE SEE A HOCKEY STICK PHENOMENON IN THOSE PRICES
[01:15:01]
IN ALMOST ANY MARKET THAT I'M WORKING IN RIGHT NOW, THAT INCLUDES MARKETS THAT ARE CHALLENGED, UH, YOU KNOW, CLEVELAND, NORTHEAST, OHIO, UH, UM, YOU KNOW, PARTS OF THE CHICAGO, UH, THIS CHICAGO METRO INTO NORTH WEST INDIANA.UM, YOU KNOW, THOSE DYNAMICS ARE OUT THERE EVERYWHERE AND THEY'RE PARTICULARLY PERNICIOUS IN PLACES WHERE THERE'S ALREADY STRONG POPULATION GROWTH OCCURRING.
SO I THINK IF WE SPEND A LOT OF TIME WITHIN THIS CHAPTER TALKING ABOUT AFFORDABILITY, IT'S JUST BECAUSE OF, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THE ISSUES THAT WE SEE RISING, UM, AND AROUND YOU IN 1990, WE WERE RANKED 294TH IN THE STATE, AS FAR AS SIZE OF CITY IN 2020, WE WERE RANKED 25TH TODAY.
WE WERE BEING RANKED AROUND 14TH.
I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW IF WE SHOULD BE PROUD OF THAT OR SCARED AS YOU KNOW, CAN I SAY SOMETHING? SURE.
WELL, I NEED THEM FOR THE RECORDING.
WELL, AND SO KYLE CAN HEAR YOU TOO.
UH, ONE 11 QUARTER CASTING CIRCLE AND BLUFFTON.
UM, AND JUST AS JUST, YOU KNOW, I, I SIT HERE AND I KIND OF LISTEN AND LEARN A LOT TOO ABOUT, UM, THIS VERY NICE TOWN OF BLUFFTON.
UM, BUT WHAT STRIKES ME IS, UM, YOUR COMMENTS ABOUT, YOU KNOW, WHAT YOU WANT FROM OLD TOWN, WHAT YOU WANT THERE AND WHAT YOU SEE.
AND IT'S ALMOST LIKE YOU'RE, YOU'RE SITTING THERE NOT UNDERSTANDING I'M JUST A CITIZEN.
WELL, NO, BUT YOU'RE ON THE PLANNING COMMISSION ON, YOU KNOW, I HAVE THIS MUCH INFLUENCE, YOU KNOW, IF I, UH, TO DO ANYTHING, YOU'RE THE PEOPLE WHO CAN INFLUENCE THIS AND YOU SIT THERE AND YOU SOUND AS HOPELESS AS ALL THE HOMEOWNERS WHO SAY THE PUD IS IN THE PUD.
UM, AND THIS IS THE CHANCE TO LOOK AT BLUFFTON, OKAY, LOOK AT BLUFFTON TODAY.
AND WHERE DO WE WANT TO BE IN 10 YEARS NOW, IF THERE ARE THINGS THAT ARE CONSTRAINING THAT, AND WE NEED TO IDENTIFY, YOU KNOW, I, I, ALL THE MAPS THAT ARE IN THERE, THE KEY MAP IS THE PUD MAPS.
BECAUSE IF IT'S TRUE, WHATEVER THE NUMBER IS, IT'S 92% OF THE TOWN, THE OTHER STUFF, I'M SORRY, IT'S LIKE CHICKEN POOP.
BE FRANK, THE KEY AREAS OR THE, THE 92% THAT ARE CONTROLLED BY THE PUD.
WHAT DOES THAT PLAN LOOK LIKE? IS THAT WHAT WE WANT IN 10 YEARS? IS THAT WHAT WE WANT IN 10 YEARS? AND IF IT'S NOT WHAT WE WANT, WELL, WE BETTER START MAKING THE CHANGES, WHATEVER CHANGES WE NEED TO MAKE IN OUR, OUR CODES.
AND, AND I, I HAVE TO TELL YOU, BECAUSE I'VE HEARD IT OVER AND OVER AGAIN, THERE'S NOTHING, YOU CAN DO, NOTHING YOU CAN DO.
WELL, YOU KNOW WHAT? I HAVE 35 YEARS IN THE ENVIRONMENTAL AREA.
AND THE ONLY REGULATION WAS THE 1899 RIVERS AND HARBORS ACT.
WELL, EVERYTHING CHANGED WITH THE CLEAN WATER ACT.
EVERYTHING CHANGED WITH REC REC AND ALL THE PERMITS THAT WERE IN PLACE DIDN'T MEAN ANYTHING ANYMORE.
AND YOU COULDN'T PUT THINGS OUT IN THE BACK 40 AND RIGHT HERE IN BLUFFTON, YOU HAD TO CHANGE EVERYTHING WITH THE HURRICANES, RIGHT? ALL THE WINDOWS, ALL THE STANDARDS, ALL THAT, ALL THE CODE HAD TO CHANGE.
SO THIS PANACEA THAT NOTHING WE CAN DO ABOUT THIS AGREEMENT, GO GET SOME GOOD WASHINGTON ATTORNEYS WHO WILL SHOW YOU THE WAY BECAUSE YOU, PEOPLE ARE THE ONES WHO ARE LOOKING AT WHERE BLUFFTON IS NOW.
AND THIS DOCUMENT IS SUPPOSED TO SAY, WHERE DO YOU WANT TO BE? IN 10 YEARS? YOU ARE THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE TO DECIDE THAT.
AND I DON'T KNOW WHY YOU ACT LIKE YOU'RE HELPLESS OR HELPLESS TO DO THAT.
AND THE OTHER COMMENT I HAVE, AND THIS IS PARTICULAR FROM HAVING SPENT SEVERAL HOURS YESTERDAY, TRYING TO GET THROUGH THAT LAND USE CHAPTER, JUST LIKE YOU ARE THE IMPORTANT PEOPLE TO DECIDE THIS BREAK, RECOGNIZE THE CHUMPS OUTSIDE, THEY'RE PAYING THE TAXES.
WE WANT TO BE ABLE TO READ THAT DOCUMENT, INCLUDING THE PERSON.
WHO'S NEVER READ IT BEFORE AND SAY, WELL, YOU KNOW, I'M INTERESTED IN THE SCHOOLS.
YOU KNOW, I GOT KIDS IN SCHOOL.
THEY GOTTA BE ABLE TO TURN OPEN TO THAT PAGE AND READ IT WITHIN A COUPLE OF MINUTES AND DIGEST WHAT IT SAYS
[01:20:01]
AND THE SAME THING WITH SOMEBODY WHO LIVES IN A PUD.THAT'S GETTING DEVELOPED, OPEN UP THAT PAGE AND SAY, OKAY, YEAH, HERE'S MY STREET.
IT'S SAYING THAT WE'RE GOING TO HAVE ANOTHER THOUSAND HOMES.
AND THAT DOCUMENT, I'VE NEVER SEEN ANYTHING.
IT'S ALL SITTING RIGHT ON THE TOWN WEBSITE.
YOU CAN GO TO ANY OF THOSE PUD DOCUMENTS AND LOOK AT THEM.
AND I, I DO, WE'VE HAD SOME GOOD CONVERSATIONS AND WE WILL HAVE SOME GOOD CONVERSATIONS, BUT PLEASE DON'T, DON'T EVER THINK THAT WE'RE SITTING UP HERE SAYING WE'RE HELPLESS AND WE'RE HOPELESS.
WE'RE DOING EVERYTHING WE CAN BY THE SEAT OF OUR PANTS TO DO THE BEST FOR THE TOWN THAT WE ALL LOVE LIVING IN.
AND YOU ARE NOT SOMEBODY WHO DOESN'T HAVE A SAY.
SO IN THIS, YOU'VE IMPACTED THIS AS MUCH AS ANY OF THE FIVE OF US THAT HAPPENED TO BE SITTING UP HERE TONIGHT, WE HAVE HEARD YOU, WE HAVE TOLD STAFF, STAFF HAS HEARD YOU, AND WE'RE TAKING THINGS THAT YOU FOUND THAT WE HAVEN'T FOUND INTO EFFECT AND INTO ACCOUNT IN WHAT THIS DOCUMENTS ENDING UP.
LOOK LOOKING LIKE, YOU KNOW WHAT TEARS ME APART IS THE FACT THAT THERE ARE NOT MANY PEOPLE HERE.
AND I WILL TELL YOU WHAT I'VE LEARNED TO DO WHEN SOMEBODY COMPLAINS ABOUT SOMETHING.
I SAY, WHERE WERE YOU? YOU'RE GOING TO SHOW HER HOW TO APPLY FOR ANOTHER BOARD, RIGHT? NO, BUT I'M SERIOUS.
AND, AND, UH, IT'S, IT'S CRITICAL BECAUSE I FEEL LIKE BLUFFTON IS REALLY AT AN INFLECTION POINT.
IF WE DON'T START ADDRESSING THE THINGS IN 10 YEARS, I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S GOING TO BE AS NICE.
UM, AND YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES YOU CAN JUST KIND OF LET THINGS GO AND SAY, OKAY, YOU KNOW, WE CAN WAIT.
I DON'T THINK, I THINK YOU'RE PAST THAT POINT.
I THINK YOU HAVE TO START TAKING CONTROL OF THE DEVELOPMENT AND WHAT'S GOING ON.
AND, UM, MAKING SURE WE HAVE THE INFRASTRUCTURE AND THAT WE REALLY THINK THROUGH THINGS, YOU KNOW, THAT'S ANOTHER THING I SEE OVER AND OVER AGAIN, JUST LIKE THE NUMBERS IN THAT CHART.
IT'S LIKE, HOW DID THIS GET DONE? AND YOU HAVE TO LOOK, YOU KNOW, YOU HAVE TO UNCOVER THAT.
LIKE WHAT, WHAT DIDN'T THEY THINK ABOUT THEIR, UM, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE ALL DOING NOW.
I MEAN, YOU KNOW, THIS WEEKEND, BUT WE WEREN'T INVOLVED.
THEN WE'RE GETTING IT NOW TO HELP FACILITATE, TO GET IT TO WHERE IT NEEDS TO BE FOR OUR PLAN.
YOU KNOW, THIS WAS AN OUTSIDE COMPANY THAT THE TOWN HIRED.
WE HAVE NOW HAD THE CHALLENGE TO GO OVER AND REVIEW IT, WHICH WE'VE ALL DONE INDEPENDENTLY, NOT IN A PUBLIC FORUM AT OUR OWN PRIVATE RESIDENCES OR WHEREVER WE'VE COME IN PUBLIC.
WE'VE ASKED FOR THESE WORKSHOPS BECAUSE WE DIDN'T EVEN HAVE TO DO ANY OF THESE WORKSHOPS, BUT WE REQUESTED IT.
SO WE COULD HAVE PEOPLE LIKE YOU COME AND VOICE THEIR OPINION AND GIVE THEM THE OPPORTUNITY TO HELP MAKE THIS BETTER.
SO IT'S NOT JUST BECAUSE WE DIDN'T DO OUR JOB.
I'M NOT SAYING YOU, BUT WE ARE TRYING TO HELP EVERYONE DO THE JOB FOR THE TOWN AND HELP THE TOWN GROW.
AND MY POINT THERE IS WHEN I CAME TO THE FIRST MEETING, THE VERY FIRST MEETING, OKAY.
UM, PERSON FROM THE TOWN SAID, WELL, YOU KNOW, WE'RE ALMOST DONE WITH THIS BECAUSE THERE'S NO MORE BUDGET LEFT AND WE GOT TO GET THIS, YOU KNOW, IT'S GOT TO GET, YOU GOT TO APPROVE IT.
AND THEN IT'S GONE ON THE TOWN COUNCIL.
AND THAT'S WHY WE, THEN WE WEREN'T HAPPY WITH IT EITHER.
AND WE'RE NOT HAVING TO GET THEM IN, OR WE CAN'T RECOMMEND BECAUSE THEY COMMISSIONED THIS COMPANY TO DO IT.
AND THEN THE STAFF REVIEWED THE FIRST, WHAT WAS IT? TWO OR THREE DRAFTS.
WELL, WE'RE AT THE POINT IN THE PROCESS WHERE IT COMES TO US, IT CAME TO US.
WE FELT IT NEEDED A LOT MORE WORK.
SO THIS IS WHERE WE, AND BE CLEAR.
THE FIRST DRAFT WE SAW IS THIS DRAFT.
AND WE SAW IT AT THAT MEETING.
THEN THE VERY FIRST MEETING WAS ATTENDANCE.
WE SAW THAT TWO DAYS BEFORE THAT MEETING, I'M NOT BLAMING I'M BELIEVE ME.
I KNOW THIS HAS BEEN A VERY HARD, BUT I WANT, I THINK WE WANT YOU TO UNDERSTAND THAT WE HAVE AS MUCH CARE AND CONCERN AS YOU DO ABOUT THIS.
AND YOU HAVE AS MUCH CARE AND CONCERN AS WE DO ABOUT THIS.
AND WE'RE TRYING TO ALL MOVE FORWARD.
THIS, THIS IS A MUCH BETTER DOCUMENT THAN IT WAS TWO MONTHS AGO.
AND IT'S GOING TO BE A BETTER DOCUMENT BEFORE WE HAND IT ON TO TOWN COUNCIL AND TOWN COUNCIL, STILL GOING TO HAVE TO VET IT AND GO THROUGH IT.
AND YOU KNOW WHAT, WE'LL PROBABLY BE THERE.
A COUPLE OF US IN THE AUDIENCE WITH YOU AT TOWN COUNCIL, BUT YOU'RE A PART OF THIS PROCESS.
AND WE ALL ARE DOING OUR BEST TO MAKE IT AS GOOD AS WE CAN.
SO MANY TOLD ME BACK IN 2005, WE DON'T HAVE A CHOICE.
THE PAPER MILLS SOLD THEIR LAND AND THESE PUD WERE WRITTEN.
[01:25:01]
ARE COMING HERE.WHAT WE NEED TO DO IS MAKE IT THE BEST POSSIBLE TIME WE CAN FOR WHEN THEY COME HERE AND THE PEOPLE ARE STILL COMING HERE, THEY ARE, WE CAN'T CLOSE THE GATES AND KEEP THEM FROM COMING HERE.
AND I DON'T THINK YOU THINK THAT EITHER, UM, TECH, WE LIVE WHAT 300 YARDS FROM EACH OTHER, WE'RE RIGHT DOWN THE ROAD FROM EACH OTHER IN A NEW COMMUNITY, BUT WE'VE GOT TO CONTINUE TO, TO MAKE THIS THE BEST THAT WE CAN POSSIBLY MAKE THIS.
AND WE'RE TRYING, IF YOU WOULDN'T MIND COMMISSIONER, I'D LIKE TO ADD TO THIS TOO.
I MEAN, I THINK, YOU KNOW, W W WE'RE DESCRIBING HERE TONIGHT, THIS IS ALL THE SPIRIT OF, OF ITERATING THIS WORK.
AND I'VE TRULY APPRECIATED MS. MANNING'S COMMENTS THROUGHOUT THIS, ON THE VARIETY OF TOPICS THAT HAVE COME UP AND ALSO YOUR TIME AND COMMITMENT TO THIS SEPARATE.
THAT'S NOT COMMON AMONG COMMUNITIES LIKE YOURS.
SO, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE TO BE COMMENDED FOR THIS KIND OF OVERTIME PERIOD, AND THAT THE LEVEL OF ATTENTION THAT YOU'RE PAYING TO THIS.
AND, AND I TRULY DO APPRECIATE IT.
IF WE COULD, WITH THE TIME WE GOT, I WOULD LIKE TO TALK DIRECTLY HERE ABOUT SOMEBODY IT'S HOUSING ISSUES AND ITEMS THAT HAVE COME UP.
CAN I ASK REAL QUICK? JUST IF THERE'S ANYBODY ELSE THAT HAS A COMMENT REAL QUICK ABOUT HOUSING BEFORE HE DOES HIS, BECAUSE WE ARE RUNNING OUT OF TIME, SO, OH YEAH.
AND I WAS TRYING TO GET SOME DATA TO, UH, CAROL CRUTCHFIELD BEAVER COUNTY SCHOOL DISTRICT.
UM, TWO POINTS, ONE I WANT TO PIGGYBACK ON WHAT MS. MCCRACKEN SAID ABOUT HOMELESSNESS.
IT SHOULD BE ADDRESSED IN YOUR, IN YOUR PLAN TO AT LEAST BE THINKING ABOUT IT.
UM, I WAS TRYING TO GET THE DATA REAL QUICK.
WE HAD 278 STUDENTS LAST YEAR WHO WERE CONSIDERED HOMELESS.
AND THESE AREN'T PEOPLE LIKE HE WAS DESCRIBING MAKING PALM FRONDS, YOU KNOW, IN, IN A PLOT OF LAND.
THESE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE HOUSE SURFING, COUCH SURFING, YOU KNOW, IN ALL KINDS OF DIFFERENT VARIOUS SITUATIONS, BUT THEY ARE TECHNICALLY CONSIDERED UNDER THE MCKINNEY VENTO THEY'RE CONSIDERED HOMELESS.
AND SO IT IS SOMETHING THAT WE, YOU KNOW, WE TRY TO ADDRESS AS MUCH AS WE CAN, BUT AGAIN, AFFORDABLE HOUSING, UH, AVAILABLE HOUSING IS JUST SOMETHING WE NEED TO, TO ALL KEEP IN THE FRONT.
AND THAT AFFECTS OUR TEACHERS AS WELL.
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE OFTEN HEAR IS, YOU KNOW, ANECDOTALLY IS WE'D LOVE TO COME TEACH THERE.
WE CAN'T FIND ANYTHING AFFORDABLE.
SO THAT IS SOME OF THE FEEDBACK WE GET.
CAN'T QUANTIFY THAT, BUT IF YOU REALLY WANT SOME QUANTIFICATION REACH OUT AND I CAN TRY TO GET THAT TO YOU, BUT ANYWAY, IT SHOULD BE AS PART OF YOUR CONSIDERATION AND YOUR PLAN TO 178.
I WAS TRYING TO GET THAT BREAKDOWN IF POSSIBLE.
UM, BUT I HAVEN'T GOTTEN A RESPONSE YET, SO THAT STUDENTS GET THAT.
THAT WAS THE NEW MY QUESTION, CAROLINE.
I APPRECIATE YOU CLARIFYING THAT AS STUDENTS.
ANY OTHER AND STEAL 22 TRAIL RIDGE RETREAT.
I CAN TELL YOU IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD, ON MY STREET, THERE'S THREE RENTAL HOUSES.
THEY'RE ALL FILLED BY PEOPLE BUYING HOUSES THAT HAVE SOLD THEIR HOUSES UP NORTH.
SO WE'VE TEMPORARILY PAYING $2,500 A MONTH TO RUN A 2200 SQUARE FOOT HOUSE.
AND THEN ONCE THEIR HOUSE HAS DONE IN SUN CITY RD VILLE, UH, THEY MOVE INTO IT.
SO A LOT OF TRANSIENT PEOPLE MOVING DOWN HERE, TAKING UP ALL THE RENTALS, UH, CAUSE THEY CAN AFFORD TO, UH, ONE THING I DIDN'T NOTICE IN ANY OF THE LAND USE OR HOUSING KIND OF IN THE HOUSING, BUT YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S PERSONALLY, I THINK WE NEED MORE COMMERCIAL, A LOT MORE COMMERCIAL.
I THINK PEOPLE PROBABLY AGREE AND INFRASTRUCTURE.
HOWEVER, YOU KNOW, I, I KNOW FOR LIKE SAY GEORGIA, THEY WANTED THE FILM INDUSTRY TO SHOW UP.
SO THEY DID A BUNCH OF TAX INCENTIVES FOR EVERY MOVIE TO GET FILMED IN ATLANTA OR GEORGIA.
I DIDN'T NOTICE ANYWHERE IN THERE.
AND MAYBE IT'S IN THE HOUSING PORTION, MAYBE WE OUGHT TO THINK ABOUT GIVING SOME SORT OF TAX BREAKS OR SOMETHING.
AND I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S BEING DONE, BUT SOME SORT OF FISCAL FISCAL INCENTIVE, THAT'S POTENTIALLY MORE ENTICING TO GET THE TYPE OF DEVELOPMENT WE WANT.
I BELIEVE IT'S IN THE ECONOMY SECTION JUST FOR YOUR, YEAH.
WE COULD DEFINITELY REVIEW THAT IN THAT SESSION, BUT IT IS AT LEAST IN HERE, LET'S SEE ANDREW, I THINK THOSE ARE, THOSE ARE GOOD COMMENTS RELATED TO THE MARKET.
YOU KNOW, I, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY THERE'S CARROTS AND STICKS, RIGHT.
YOU KNOW, AND WE WERE ALWAYS PICKING WHICH ONE WE'RE GOING TO USE AT WHICH MOMENT.
AND UH, AS WE THINK ABOUT TARGET SECTORS, YOUR TARGET GROWTH, YOU KNOW, MORE AND MORE, IT'S THE CARROT WITHIN THE HOUSING MARKET ABOUT HOW DO WE,
[01:30:01]
WE BEAT SOME OF JUST THE BASIC MARKET DYNAMICS BECAUSE THAT'S THE ISSUE WE TALK ABOUT.AFFORDABILITY IS SOMEWHERE, THERE'S A SUBSIDY, YOU KNOW, WHETHER IT'S TOP DOWN OR IT'S BOTTOM UP, YOU'VE GOT TO PAY FOR AN ELEMENT TO MAKE THAT, THAT PIECE MORE AFFORDABLE.
UH, AND IT'S, IT'S ONE OF THE CENTRAL, UH, AGAIN, TUG OF WARS THAT WE DEAL WITH HERE.
GO AHEAD JACK SIX THIRD AVENUE.
UM, W WHEN WE TALK ABOUT AFFORDABILITY AND WORKFORCE HOUSING, UM, YOU KNOW, I THINK PARTICULARLY AS AN ARCHITECT, UH, YOU KNOW, AFFORDABLE HOUSING SHOULD BE MIXED IN WITH THE REST OF DEVELOPMENT.
YOU SHOULD HAVE A MIXED INCOME NEIGHBORHOOD.
UM, BUT A LOT OF TIMES WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THOSE KINDS OF THINGS, IT COMES WITH A CERTAIN DENSITY TO THE DEVELOPMENT.
UM, AND, AND, YOU KNOW, I THINK THE TOWN HAS TRIED SOME LOW INCOME, LIKE ON WALL STREET THAT WAS SINGLE FAMILY AND WAS VERY NICE AND I'M SURE COST SOME MONEY, UM, BUT REALLY BUILT THREE OR FOUR HOMES.
AND I DIDN'T REALLY SEE ANY RECOMMENDATIONS IN THIS SECTION PERTAINING TO WHAT KIND OF D WHAT KIND OF HOUSING WE NEED AND WHAT DENSITY THAT MIGHT COME AT AND WHETHER THERE'S TRADE-OFFS THE TOWN CAN TAKE SO THAT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOT JUST BUILDING A WHOLE BUNCH OF SINGLE FAMILY NEIGHBORHOODS THAT REALLY TAKE UP ALL THIS SPACE THAT WE'RE WORRIED ABOUT LOSING A GREEN SPACE.
UM, AND, YOU KNOW, SHOULD WE BE BUILDING IDENTIFYING MORE DENSE AREAS, AREAS FOR DENSE DEVELOPMENT, UH, RATHER THAN JUST ALL SINGLE FAMILY AND WHAT MIGHT THAT, WHAT SHOULD THAT MIX BE IN THE NEXT 10 YEARS? WHERE SHOULD THAT BE AND WHERE SHOULD THAT BE? OKAY.
AND I THINK WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT 92% OF THE LANDMASS BEING IN PUD, YES.
I THINK YOU HAVE TO, AND STILL SO MUCH OF THE DENSITY BEING IN THE PUD.
I THINK YOU HAVE TO GIVE STRONG REASON FOR DEVELOPERS TO CONSIDER HOW THEY CAN INTEGRATE THAT AFFORDABLE HOUSING COMPONENT OR WORK FOR HOUSING.
I JUST, I KNOW WE'VE CURRENTLY GOT SOME MEASURES IN PLACES THE TOWN TO PROMOTE THAT, BUT THEN WE'RE NOT, WE'RE NOT SEEING DEVELOPERS TAKE IT SERIOUSLY.
WE'RE SEEING TONS OF DEVELOPMENT PLANS COME THROUGH AND WE ASK, HEY, ARE YOU CONSIDERING AFFORDABLE HOUSING? THEY SAID, NOPE, WE'RE NOT.
WE DON'T WANT TO, THAT'S NOT THE PRODUCT WE WANT.
AND SO HOW DO WE MAKE THEM WANT IT? AND I THINK THESE, THESE DEVELOPERS HAVE A VERY SPECIFIC PRODUCT AND A VERY SPECIFIC TYPE OF DEVELOPMENT THAT THEY'RE DOING.
UM, AND IT'S EASY FOR THEM TO SELL AND THEY CAN BASICALLY COOKIE CUTTER IT.
AND THEY'RE JUST, THERE'S NO NEED TO, FOR THEM TO EVEN CONSIDER BECAUSE OUR INCENTIVES JUST AREN'T ENOUGH TO MAKE THEM THINK TWICE ABOUT IT.
UM, SO WHAT DO WE HAVE TO DO TO MAKE THEM THINK TWICE ABOUT HOW THEY'RE DEVELOPING AND HOW, AND WHAT THEY CAN DO TO ACTUALLY COME BACK AND BRING A MASTER PLAN BEFORE US AND SAY, RPT AMENDMENT AND SAY, OKAY, I'M READY TO DO THIS BECAUSE IT MAKES SENSE FOR ME, UM, ON THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, AND IT KINDA TIES INTO TRANSPORTATION.
YOU KNOW, IF YOU CAN DEVELOP THE INTERCONNECTIVITY AND MORE PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION, MIGHT YOU BE ABLE TO REDUCE THE PARKING REQUIREMENTS IS A TRADE-OFF OR, UM, YOU KNOW, INCREASED, UH, UNITS OR SOMETHING ON A PROPERTY WHERE WE'RE KIND OF STUCK WITH FIXED BUILDING COSTS ON PROJECTS, UM, AND A CERTAIN NUMBER OF UNITS ON A PROJECT.
AND THEN YOU KIND OF GET THE AREA WHEN WE'RE PLANNING OUT PROJECTS.
YOU KNOW, IT REALLY COMES DOWN TO HOW MUCH BUILDING CAN WE HAVE AND HOW MUCH PARKING DOES THAT REQUIRE.
UM, AND IF THE TOWN TACKLED, IS THERE A WAY FOR TOM TO TACKLE TRANSPORTATION AS POTENTIALLY SOMETHING THAT ALLOWS FOR MORE DENSITY, UH, THAT YOU MIGHT BE ABLE TO HAVE A TRADE OFF AND CONVINCE SOME DEVELOPERS TO DO A LITTLE BIT MORE LOW INCOME, BECAUSE I CAN GET A LITTLE BIT MORE OUT OF THEIR LOT BECAUSE THE TOWN HAS PROVIDED CONNECTIVITY AND TRANSPORTATION MIGHT NOT NEED AS MUCH PARKING IN THOSE AREAS.
MR.
AND, AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT ACTUALLY CAME UP IN THIS DISCUSSION AROUND HOUSING, YOU KNOW, GUYS, I THOUGHT WAS QUITE INTERESTING IS THIS IDEA OF, YOU KNOW, NOAA HOUSING.
I'M NOT SURE IF YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH THAT TERM, BUT, YOU KNOW, NATURALLY OCCURRING AFFORDABLE HOUSING, MEANING SO MUCH OF OUR DISCUSSION, YOU KNOW, AROUND THIS TOPIC IS THE IDEA OF ADDING UNITS RIGHT EVERY YEAR, BUT THERE'S VERY LITTLE ATTENTION PAID TO THE FRAGILITY OF EXISTING AFFORDABLE UNITS.
YOU KNOW, THAT AGAIN, MAY HAVE JUST BEEN GIVEN TO YOU BY, UH, BY, BY YEARS OF DEVELOPMENT.
UM, AND I THINK AS WE THINK ABOUT THIS PLAN, MAYBE DEVIATING A LITTLE BIT FROM SOME OF THE CONVERSATION THAT'S OCCURRED IN YOUR COMMUNITY OVER THE LAST 10 OR 15 YEARS, DEALING WITH
[01:35:01]
THIS TOPIC, THAT IDEA OF PROTECTING, UH, PROTECTING AT THE BOTTOM, THOSE UNITS FROM EITHER REDEVELOPMENTS, ABSORPTION, UM, LOWERCASE G I WOULD SAY GENTRIFICATION, MEANING JUST SAY SORT OF THE TITLE RAISES IN VALUE THAT WOULD PRICE SOMEONE OUT THAT BECOME A, A PRETTY IMPORTANT PART OF THIS DISCUSSION.AND I THINK AT MINIMUM, IT'S THE IDEA OF KNOWING WHAT'S OUT THERE, YOU KNOW, THAT'S, THAT'S A, THAT'S A KEY PIECE AND WHEN YOU KNOW IT, UH, THEN YOU CAN TAKE STEPS TO, UM, YOU KNOW, WHETHER IT'S PROTECT, YOU KNOW, THAT MIGHT BE A HARD, UH, FIRST STEP OR, YOU KNOW, PROVIDE TOOLS AND WE'VE ALREADY DONE A NUMBER OF THOSE STEPS AS WELL.
ANOTHER THING THAT I THINK, WELL, HMM, WELL, I'M GOING TO SAY, GO AHEAD, LET'S LOOK OUT THE FLOOR.
UM, ONE OF THE THINGS I THINK THAT ALSO NEEDS TO BE LOOKED AT, AND, AND I'M NOT SURE THAT THIS REALLY THIS CHAPTER HAS REALLY GOTTEN INTO, IS THIS IDEA OF STEPPING OUT OF THAT.
I DON'T WANT TO SAY THAT IT DIDN'T, I DON'T WANT TO GIVE YOU CREDIT WHERE YOU DO HAVE CREDIT OR TAKE AWAY CREDIT, BUT YOU TALK THAT JUST COMING IN FOR THESE AFFORDABLE HOUSING UNITS.
AND THEN ONE OF THE THINGS THAT MY HUSBAND AND I LOOKED AT YEARS AGO WHEN WE BOUGHT OUR FIRST HOUSE, WE LOOKED AT THOSE AFFORDABLE HOUSING UNITS ON WALL STREET.
AND WE ENDED UP AT BLUFFTON PARK BECAUSE ONE, I COULD GET THE MONEY OUT OF MY HOUSE WHEN I SOLD IT, WHICH I COULDN'T GET OUT OF THE AFFORDABLE HOUSING AND I ACTUALLY HAD MORE LAND AND MOREHOUSE.
AND SO, UM, UM, IT, IT MAKES ME BEG THE QUESTION OF HOW AFFORDABLE WE REALLY MAKING OUR AFFORDABLE HOUSING WHEN THE TOWN BECOMES A DEVELOPER.
UM, AND TO THEN WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THIS AFFORDABLE HOUSING BEING SET UP, AS THEY TAKE A PORTION OF THE PROFITS, OR I DON'T GET TO TAKE THE PROFITS, OR I HAVE TO WAIT, BE IN THIS HOUSE FOR A CERTAIN PERIOD OF TIME BEFORE I CAN TAKE THE PROFITS, IT LIMITS MY ABILITY TO UPGRADE TO MY NEXT HOUSE.
UM, AND EVEN NOW I'M STILL KIND OF LIMITED IN UPGRADING TO MY NEXT HOUSE BECAUSE THE HOUSING PRICES ARE SO CRAZY.
AND SO NOBODY CAN UPGRADE INTO MY HOUSE BECAUSE I CAN'T UPGRADE INTO ANOTHER HOUSE.
AND SO YOU HAVE THIS KIND OF BLOCKADE IN THE STAIR-STEPPING PROCESS AND HOW DO WE BEST EQUIP PEOPLE TO GO FROM COMING INTO THESE AFFORDABLE HOUSINGS TO THE NEXT STEP SO THAT THEY HAVE THAT PROFIT COMING OFF OF IT TO INVEST IN THE NEXT PIECE? YEAH.
I THINK YOU BRING UP AN INTERESTING COMMENT THAT I HEARD, I THINK FROM SEVERAL FOLKS IN YOUR COMMUNITY AS WE HAD THIS DISCUSSION, WHICH IS THE IDEA OF CAN I AFFORD TO BUY ANOTHER HOUSE IN BLUFFTON? CAN I AFFORD TO BUY MY NEXT HOUSE HERE? RIGHT.
UM, THAT'S AN INTERESTING DYNAMIC, ESPECIALLY IF FOR, FOR COMMUNITY MEMBERS THAT MAY NOT BE AS LONG LIVED AS YOU KNOW, SOME OF THE COMMISSIONERS HERE, SOME OF THE AUDIENCE MEMBERS, UM, IN THE COMMUNITY, MEANING 10, 20, 30 YEARS, BUT EVEN IN SEVEN YEARS OF HOME OWNERSHIP THERE AND HOW MUCH THE DYNAMICS AND PRICE HAVE CHANGED, UM, HAVE THEY BEEN PRICED OUT ESSENTIALLY? UM, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE RIGHT.
AND I THINK WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THIS, THIS, THIS KIND OF, AGAIN, IT'S THAT TUG OF WAR DEAL, RIGHT? IS THAT ROPE MOVES.
UM, SO THESE QUESTIONS BECOME DIFFICULT FOR EACH SEGMENT ALONG THE WAY.
THEY'RE MOST DIFFICULT FOR WHAT MR. MCCRACKEN BRINGS UP.
WHEN WE TALK ABOUT THOSE THAT ARE HOUSING SECURE, INSECURE, OR INDEED ON HOUSED.
UM, THOSE ARE, THOSE ARE VERY CRITICAL PIECES, BUT IT'S ALSO IMPORTANT AT EACH SEGMENT TO RECOGNIZE HOW THAT'S CHANGING.
ARE THERE ANY OTHER PUBLIC COMMENTS THAT WANT TO SPEAK ABOUT IT? OKAY.
THEN YOU FIND YOU HAVE SOME MORE NOTES.
UM, I THINK FOR ME, ONE OF THE OTHER COMMENTS THAT I HAD WAS JUST THIS IDEA OF HOW DO WE COMPARE? I KNOW YOU INCLUDED, UM, BUFORD COUNTY AS A PART OF YOUR COMPARISON AND, AND SOME OF YOUR ASPECTS AND SOME OF THAT WITH ALSO SOUTH CAROLINA AS A WHOLE, UM, BUT COMMUNITIES OF S YOU KNOW, SIMILAR COASTAL COMMUNITIES.
AND I THINK THIS ACTUALLY KIND OF GOES BACK TO YOUR OTHER QUESTION, WHEN IT CAME TO LAND USES, WHAT DO WE WANT, WHAT DO WE WANT TO LOOK LIKE? UM, BUT I THINK WHEN WE START LOOKING AT HOW WE, AND, AND IT'S HARD BECAUSE LIKE, UH, COMMISSIONER, WHAT MARK SAID, WE'VE GROWN ASTRONOMICALLY AND PEOPLE ARE COMING HERE AND THEY ARE COMING HERE.
SO THERE'S VERY FEW COASTAL TOWNS IN OUR STATE THAT ARE EXPERIENCING THE SAME KIND OF PRESSURES WE ARE.
BUT I THINK THAT WE DO NEED TO BE LOOKING AT HOW MUCH, I MEAN, WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT WE'RE MAKING $80,000 A YEAR ON AVERAGE, AND OUR OWN COSTS START AT 300,000, YOU JUST HAVE SUCH A DISPARATE, LIKE THE SUCH A DISPARATE, LIKE THAT'S NOT THE RIGHT WORD ANYWAY, JUST A BIG DIFFERENCE.
AND IT DOES MATH DOESN'T MAKE SENSE.
AND SO WHEN YOU START LOOKING AT OTHER COMMUNITIES AND WHAT THAT BALANCE LOOKS LIKE, IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A BALANCED TOWN AND A BALANCED ECONOMY AND A BALANCE AND HOUSING,
[01:40:01]
WHAT DOES THAT, WHAT DOES A BALANCED HOUSING LOOK LIKE IN ANOTHER COMMUNITY? WHAT COMMUNITY HAS THAT GOING ON FOR THEM? AND HOW DO WE COMPARE AND STACK UP AND MEASURE? YEAH.COMMISSIONER REAL QUICK ON THAT POINT, YOU KNOW, I MEANT WHAT I SAID IN TERMS OF YOU ALL, YOU KNOW, VANGUARD'S WEIRD WORD, BUT I THINK KIND OF BEING ON THE EDGE OF, OF EXPERIMENTATION, WE TALKED ABOUT WHAT YOU'VE TRIED TO DO TO ADDRESS THIS ISSUE.
AND, YOU KNOW, AS YOU LOOK AROUND THE COMMUNITY AROUND THE COUNTRY, THIS IS A NUT THAT NO ONE'S CRACKED, RIGHT.
ESPECIALLY IN PLACES THAT PEOPLE WANT TO BE.
BUT I, I DO BELIEVE THAT THERE ARE, YOU KNOW, PRETEND POTENTIALLY SOME EXAMPLES, UM, FROM COMMUNITIES LIKE YOURS.
AND I THINK WE'VE GOT TO KIND OF GET OUT OF MAYBE SOUTH CAROLINA TO LOOK MORE AT, UM, UH, DESTINATIONS THAT ARE, OR, UM, HAVE SIMILAR MARKET CONDITIONS TO YOU ALL.
AND I THINK MAYBE ADDING A COUPLE OF THOSE PIECES INTO MAYBE OUR GRAPHICS OR FIGURE, UM, UH, COMPARISONS WILL BE HELPFUL TO SHOW, YOU KNOW, THE TYPE OF TRENDS THAT YOU'RE EXPERIENCING, WHAT OTHER COMPANIES HAVE DONE, MAYBE PERHAPS.
AND I THINK ALSO, UM, AND THAT ALSO TRANSLATES TO EVEN HOW, WHAT PERCENTAGE WE HAVE.
WE HAVE SOMETHING LIKE 80% SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED.
AND SO WE'RE STILL LOOKING AT 20%, UH, OF THE OTHER MARKET.
HOW DOES THAT COMPARE WITH OTHER TOWNS? I MEAN, WHAT SHOULD, WHAT SHOULD WE BE SHOOTING FOR AND HOW DO WE KNOW WE'VE REACHED THE BENCHMARK? WE'RE ACTUALLY A PRETTY SIGNIFICANT MIX, HONESTLY, COMMISSION THAT'S, WHAT'S INTERESTING.
YOU, UM, UH, YOU KNOW, FOR, FOR COMMUNITIES LIKE YOURS, THAT NUMBER OF, OF 80% SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED IS ACTUALLY QUITE LOW.
UM, IT'S MORE TYPICAL TO SEE THAT MUCH HIGHER.
AND I THINK THAT PROBABLY HAS A LOT TO DO WITH THE PLANT COMMUNITIES AND THE SORT OF THE DIVERSITY OF HOUSING PRODUCTS WITHIN THOSE.
BUT WE, WE TALK A LOT ABOUT HOUSING, YOU GUYS, BUT THIS IDEA OF MISSING MIDDLE, THOSE UNITS, THAT KIND OF, THAT, THAT SET OF PRODUCTS BETWEEN SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED AND, YOU KNOW, LARGE-SCALE, MULTI-FAMILY 20 UNIT DEVELOPMENT PROPERTIES THAT REALLY BEING A KEY, UH, STEPPING STONE FOR AFFORDABILITY, FOR HOME OWNERSHIP, FOR ACCESS, UM, FOR WORKFORCE HOUSING FOR, FOR, YOU KNOW, WRIT LARGE.
UM, NOW IT'S STILL HARD TO BUILD THAT EVEN CHEAPLY NEW BUILD, RIGHT.
BUT, UM, THAT PRODUCT, YOU KNOW, THAT DOES EXIST IN, IN BLUFFTON, UH, AND IT'S, IT'S ACTUALLY QUITE A UNIQUE ASPECT OF YOUR HOUSING PROFILE.
SO WHEN YOU'RE ANY OTHER, WHEN YOU'RE REFERRING TO THE MISSING MIDDLE HOUSING, YOU'RE SAYING WE DO HAVE IT, AND WE EVEN HAVE IT POSSIBLY TO A COMPARABLE AMOUNT OF WHAT OTHER TOWNS ARE PROVIDING.
IT'S JUST THAT WE STILL NEED MORE.
IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE IS THAT THE DIRECTOR OF YOU'RE MAKING? BUT WHAT I'M SAYING IS THAT I THINK THE IDEA THAT INTRODUCING MISSING MIDDLE AS A CATCH ALL SOLUTION FOR HOUSING AFFORDABILITY CHALLENGE IS WRIT LARGE IS A BIT, UH, KIND OF OVERPLAYED BECAUSE WHAT THAT CAN IGNORE IS JUST THE INCREDIBLE, UM, UH, UM, UH, DESIRABILITY OF THE MARKET ITSELF, MEANING AND THE, THE, UM, THE ACCOMMODATION WITHIN THOSE UNITS, RIGHT? SO, YOU KNOW, A DUPLEX CAN, CAN BE ANYTHING, RIGHT? IT CAN BE WHERE I WENT, WHERE I LIVED IN COLLEGE, ALL THE WAY UP TO SOME OF THE UNITS THAT, YOU KNOW, UH, YOU FIND ON HILTON HEAD ISLAND OR, OR BEYOND, RIGHT.
I THINK THE, THE PRODUCT ITSELF ISN'T ALWAYS SPEAK TO, UM, UH, THE QUALITY OR THE LEVEL OF, OF INVESTMENT INTO THE UNIT.
UM, NOW WHAT I WILL SAY THOUGH, IS, YOU KNOW, THE SMALLER, THE FLOOR PLATE YOU HAVE TENDS TO BE THE, YOU KNOW, THE MORE AFFORDABLE, UM, THE UNITS AND WHAT SOME COMMUNITIES HAVE GOTTEN INTO A BAD HABIT OF IS REALLY ONLY ZONING AND PERMITTING FOR SINGLE FAMILY DETACHED HOUSING.
I, IN ONE COMMUNITY, I WON'T NAME RIGHT NOW, WHO'S, YOU KNOW, WHO SCORE IN THAT PARTICULAR ONE, WE JUST BROUGHT UP IS 98%, 98% OF THOSE OF THEIR 15,000 HOUSING UNITS IS JUST ONE TYPE, RIGHT.
AND WHERE THAT BECOMES VULNERABLE IS THAT IS A, UM, UH, A VERY ELASTIC PIECE WHEN WE HAVE A MARKET PRESSURE SWITCH FOR HOUSING COSTS, RIGHT? AS, AS HOUSING CROSS THE RISE, SINGLE FAMILY, DETACHED PRICE RISE QUICKLY, YOU KNOW, THEY DRIVE IN A LOT OF THAT.
SO I BRING THAT UP JUST AS AN IDEA THAT, YOU KNOW, THERE ARE AREAS WHERE YOU GOT ADVANTAGES, UM, AND IT'S, UM, IT'S INTERESTING TO SEE, AND I'M SORRY TO TACK ON US.
YOU CAN TELL, I LOVE THIS SUBJECT, BUT, YOU KNOW, THE, THE NATURAL AFFORDABLE, UM, UH, NATURALLY OCCURRING AFFORDABLE HOUSING OR NOAH, YOU'RE GOING TO SEE A LARGE OVERLAP BETWEEN THOSE PRODUCTS AND THOSE, UM, UH, THOSE PRODUCT TYPES THAT ARE IN THAT MISSING MIDDLE CATEGORY.
UH, THEY MAY BE QUADS OR, OR, OR TRIPLEXES, UH, BUT THEY'RE, THEY'RE, UH, UH, UH, KIND OF, UM, A FORGOTTEN TYPE OF BUILDING
[01:45:01]
THAT WE HAVE AND IN, UH, UH, IN THE HOUSING AND THE HOUSING MARKET, ESPECIALLY NATIONWIDE.HERE'S, HERE'S WHERE MY STRUGGLE IS.
UM, YOU KNOW, I CAN, I CAN SEE, WE HAVE CURRENTLY A MAJOR ISSUE WITH A LACK OF SUPPLY FOR THE DEMAND THAT WE HAVE, AND THEY HAVE THE DEMAND WE HAVE COMING, AND I'M SENSING AN UNCLEAR, I'M UNCLEAR ON THE MESSAGING IN TERMS OF, I HEARD, I HEAR PROTECT YOUR NATURALLY AFFORDABLY AFFORDABLE HOUSING.
AND SO WHAT I'M NOT HEARING IS, BUT YOU NEED TO, YOUR SUPPLY IS, YOU KNOW, LIKE WE'VE GOT THIS MANY UNDEVELOPED UNITS, SHOULD WE BE SHOOTING TO BUILD THOSE FASTER AND MOVE THAT THROUGH QUICKER? I MEAN, WHAT SOLUTIONS DO WE HAVE TO MEET THE DEMAND? I MEAN, THIS IS, WE HAVE A MAJOR PROBLEM ON OUR HAND RIGHT NOW.
AND I FORESEE THAT BEING THE ISSUE FOR THE NEXT 10 YEARS.
HOW, HOW DO WE, HOW DO WE SOLVE THAT? AND WHERE IS THAT IN HERE? YEAH.
WELL, I WOULD SAY ONE COMMISSIONER, YOU KNOW, THIS IS A REGIONAL CHALLENGE, AND IT'S NOT FOR YOU TO SOLVE, YOU KNOW, INDEPENDENTLY OF YOUR, YOUR PARTNERS AROUND THE LOW COUNTRY.
AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, AS SOME OF THESE ORGANIZATIONS HAVE BEGUN TO GROW AND FLOWER AROUND YOU, THEY'RE TRYING TO TACKLE THIS ISSUE.
I THINK THERE'S AN ACKNOWLEDGEMENT THAT YOU'RE DEALING IN A, IN A SYSTEM NOW, DO YOU HAVE A ROLE TO PLAY? CERTAINLY.
UH, AND, AND I KEEP, I KEEP HARPING ON THIS IDEA THAT YOU'VE DEVELOPED A LOT OF THE, KIND OF THE EARLY, UM, UH, STRUCTURE, UH, INFRASTRUCTURE TO BE ABLE TO START TO HAVE SOME OF THESE CONVERSATIONS, BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY, YOU KNOW, IF YOU WANT TO BUILD AFFORDABLE HOUSING, YOU'VE GOT TO BUILD AFFORDABLE HOUSING, RIGHT? SO WHATEVER THAT MECHANISM IS, WHETHER IT'S THROUGH SUBSIDY OR IT'S THROUGH, UM, YOU KNOW, TOP-DOWN, UH, IRREGULATION, I THINK THE DIRECTIVE, I THINK THAT WOULD COME OUT OF THIS IS THAT, YOU KNOW, THIS COMMUNITY TO HAVE THAT CONVERSATION AROUND, YOU KNOW, HOW SERIOUS ARE THEY, ARE WE, HOW COMMITTED ARE WE TO THIS CHALLENGE? AND HOW WILL WE, YOU KNOW, I GUESS PUT MONEY QUITE FRANKLY, RESOURCES OR DRAFT FAIRLY STRONG LANGUAGE FOR NEW DEVELOPMENT, AS IT OCCURS THAT SAYS THAT WE WILL REQUIRE, YOU KNOW, X PERCENT UNITS TO HIT A CERTAIN AMI, UH, HIT A CERTAIN MARK.
THAT'S CERTAINLY WHAT, YOU KNOW, OTHER COMMUNITIES HAVE, UM, UH, YOU KNOW, HAVE CLEARED THE WAY FOR YOU ON THAT, THAT COMES WITH ITS OWN CHALLENGES, JUST IN TERMS OF DEVOTING RESOURCES TO IT.
YOU KNOW, IT COMES AT ITS OWN CHALLENGE, BUT I THINK THE INTERPRETATION OF, YOU KNOW, OF ACTION BEYOND HERE IS, YOU KNOW, IT REALLY IS A CONVERSATION THAT CAN, I THINK REALLY NEEDS TO CONTINUE TO FLOWER BOTH REGIONALLY.
AND THEN, YOU KNOW, WITHIN THAT BUILDING YOUR HEAD RIGHT NOW.
UM, I ALSO THINK THERE'S A CHALLENGE BECAUSE WHEN YOU LOOK AT THAT 20, 40 BUFORD COUNTY COMP PLAN, THEY'RE SAYING, WE KNOW ALL THESE PEOPLE ARE COMING AND THERE'S ALL THESE PDS THAT ARE UNDEVELOPED IN BLUFFTON, AND WE ANTICIPATE THEY'RE GOING THERE.
SO IT'S AN, I MEAN, WIRELESS UNDERSTAND, YES, WE HAVE REGIONAL PARTNERS THAT WE NEED TO BE REACHING OUT TO AND TALKING AND BE SITTING AT THE TABLE WITH.
THEY'RE EXPECTING US TO TAKE THE BULK OF THE NEW DEVELOPMENT IN OUR INFRASTRUCTURE.
AND RIGHT NOW WE'RE ALREADY FEELING AN ECONOMIC PRESSURE ASSOCIATED WITH THIS.
I MEAN, THERE'S GOTTA BE SOME REAL HARD LOOKS AT THE SOLUTIONS TO THE SITUATION AND NOT JUST AN ANALYSIS, NOT JUST AN INVENTORY, NOT JUST AN ANALYSIS, BUT SOME REAL PLANS ABOUT HOW WE'RE GOING TO.
I MEAN, LIKE I UNDERSTAND, AGAIN, I GO BACK TO, I UNDERSTAND THIS IS NOT JUST AN US PROBLEM, BUT IT IS A HEAVILY US PROBLEM.
HILTON HAS BASICALLY BUILT OUT IT'S IT'S FALLEN ON US.
I MEAN, LIKE HARTSVILLE IS GONNA, LIKE MR. KEEL SAID, HARTSVILLE IS GOING TO END PARTY DEALS ONLY GOING TO ADD TO THE INFRASTRUCTURE PRESSURES, JUST FROM A COMMERCIAL STANDPOINT, IF FOR NOTHING ELSE, NOT EVEN JUST A SCHOOL OR SEWER WATER ELECTRIC, THIS IS, WE'VE GOT A MAJOR PROBLEM COMING DOWN THE PIPELINE, AND IT'S ALREADY HERE.
UH, ANDREW KEEL, 22 TRAILERS RETREAT.
WHEN I WAS IN ATLANTA GUY'S OFFICE NEXT TO ME, HE WAS A BUILDER.
AND I ASKED HIM, AND THIS WAS LIKE 2018.
HE WAS BUILDING HOUSES IN ATLANTA SPEC HOUSES.
AND I ASKED HIM HOW MUCH IT COSTS A SQUARE FOOT TO BUILD A HOUSE.
AND YOU SAID $85 A SQUARE FOOT IN ATLANTA IN 2018.
I'M CURIOUS IF ANYBODY KNOWS WHAT IT IS NOW.
AND BLUFFTON 400 IN IT, THREE TO 400, A SQUARE FOOT TO BUILD A HOUSE.
I BUILT FOR LESS THAN 200, A SQUARE FOOT, FOUR YEARS AGO.
WHAT NEIGHBORHOOD? WELL, I MEAN, I PAID IN, WHEN I MOVED, I PAID $85 A SQUARE FOOT FOR MY HOUSE IN 2017.
SO YOU'RE TELLING ME IT'S $300 A SQUARE FOOT TO BUILD A HOUSE RIGHT NOW.
UM, I FORGOT MY OTHER QUESTION.
[01:50:03]
YEAH.UH, I WAS GOING TO MENTION INFRASTRUCTURE WISE.
I DON'T KNOW IF MR. PLANAR KNOWS, BUT I KNOW YOU GUYS KNOW, CAUSE I'VE TOLD YOU MULTIPLE TIMES.
MY ELECTRIC GOES OUT ALMOST EVERY WEEK, SO WE DON'T HAVE THE GRID.
CAN'T HANDLE WHAT'S COMING IN.
MY NEXT QUESTION IS, DO YOU GUYS KNOW, DOES ANYBODY KNOW WHAT IS ACTUALLY APPROVED TO BE BUILT RIGHT NOW IN LIKE NEW RIVERSIDE IN TERMS OF ALL THE DEVELOPMENTS THAT HAVE BEEN APPROVED TO ACTUALLY NOT, I GUESS, LET ME CLARIFY.
NOT WHAT'S BEEN APPROVED TO BE BUILT, BUT WHAT IS ACTUALLY GOT LIKE A DEVELOPMENT PERMIT THAT THERE WILL BE BUILT IN THE NEXT, SAY SIX MONTHS THAT IF YOU GO TO THE WEBSITE, YOU CAN FIND IT.
OR IF YOU CAN GO THERE ON EVERYTHING'S ON THERE, ON THAT MAP, SORRY, DONALD LOCKTON'S WEBSITE LIST OF THE PERMITS.
IT'S ISSUED ERIC TOTAL NUMBER OF THE HOUSES.
AND I WILL SAY WE CAN'T DO THIS IN A NORMAL PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING, BUT THIS IS A WORKSHOP.
IF THE DEVELOPER GIVES US A LETTER FROM THE UTILITIES THAT SAYS WE CAN PROVIDE THE ELECTRIC, WE CAN PROVIDE THE, UM, INTERNET.
WE CAN PROVIDE THE PHONE SERVICE AS LONG AS THAT THE LETTER IS IN THERE.
UNFORTUNATELY THAT'S WHAT WE'RE LEGALLY BOUND TO.
AND THAT PARTICULAR POWER COMPANY JUST SEEMS TO HAVE PROBLEMS. WELL, I'M GLAD I'M WITH, WELL, GOOD SUBSTATIONS.
IF IT WERE ME, I WOULD HOUND THEM EVERY SINGLE DAY.
I WOULD, I HAD PROBLEMS IN 2005 WHEN I WAS IN PINE RIDGE WITH THEM.
YOU KNOW, UTILITY LETTER, I THINK WE'RE GOOD POINT.
THE ONE IN THEIR PACKET WASN'T FOR ELECTRICITY.
YOU KNOW, I DIDN'T LOOK CLOSE ENOUGH, SO I DON'T KNOW HOW I'M GOING TO GET GAS THERE.
CAUSE OUR SUBDIVISION, I GUESS THEY'RE GOING TO RUN IT, ESPECIALLY TO THEM.
WE'RE GONNA RUN IT THROUGH TREVOR INSTRUCT.
UM, I UNDERSTAND THAT ALL OF THESE SECTIONS CO INTERMINGLE AND RELATE TO EACH OTHER AND I'M SURE THE COMMISSIONERS WOULD AGREE WITH ME IN SAYING THAT THIS SEEMS LIKE THE SECTION TO SET SOME SPECIFIC GOALS FOR TOWN STAFF TO AIM AT AND USE TO MAKE DECISIONS ON THE OTHER SECTIONS GOING FORWARD.
UH, YOU KNOW, WHAT IS A SPECIFIC NUMBER OF AFFORDABLE HOUSING WE THINK WE NEED OR WHAT SHOULD THAT PERCENTAGE BE IN A YEAR? SO THAT YEAR OVER YEAR, WE CAN TAKE A LOOK AND SEE IF WE'VE MET THAT, OR IF WE'RE TRENDING THAT DIRECTION AND WHAT THAT MAKES SOME DECISIONS ON WHAT MIGHT NEED TO HAPPEN ON THOSE, ALL OF THOSE OTHER SECTIONS TO HELP WORK TOWARDS THAT GOAL, BECAUSE IT DOES SEEM TO BE ONE OF OUR, UM, MOST PARTICULAR PROBLEMS. UM, WE'RE WORKING ON AND EVERYBODY KEEPS COMING.
YOU WANT TO WRAP UP? CAN YOU HEAR US? I THINK WE'RE WRAPPING UP.
WELL, LET ME GIVE HIM HAND MOTIONS.
AM I MUTED? CAN YOU HEAR US OKAY, I'M SORRY.
UH, AND YOU MAY HEAR MY THREE-YEAR-OLD SCREAMING HERE A SECOND.
UH, BUT YET JOE, I APPRECIATE THE COMMENT.
UM, YOU KNOW, REGARDING SPECIFIC GOALS, OBVIOUSLY THAT'S SOMETHING THAT, YOU KNOW, COMMUNITIES, UM, LIKE AROUND THE COUNTRY HAVE SET SOME PRETTY BOLD TARGETS.
I THINK IN THAT AREA, WHETHER IT'S AN UNIT COUNT, UH, IT'S A PERCENTAGE OR IT'S, YOU KNOW, AN AGREEMENT AMONG, YOU KNOW, KIND OF RE YOUR REGIONAL PARTNERS OR SYSTEM TO, TO COLLECTIVELY ADDRESS THIS AND WHAT YOUR ROLE WITHIN THAT ADDRESSING MIGHT BE.
BUT, YOU KNOW, GUYS, I, AGAIN, I APPRECIATE THAT EXTRA TIME HERE IN WORKING THROUGH THIS, THIS IS EXTREMELY HELPFUL.
I THINK TO ME AND TO, TO OUR TEAM, AND AS I KEEP USING THIS WORD, ITERATING THIS DOCUMENT AND GETTING IT CLOSER AND AS COMMISSIONER, YOU POINTED OUT, BUT MORE SECOND AGO, YOU KNOW, BETTER AND BETTER THROUGH EACH CONVERSATION.
SO WE'RE GONNA KEEP WORKING AT THAT.
UM, WE'VE GOT TWO MORE TOPICS COMING UP THIS WEEK WITH NATURAL RESOURCES AND RESILIENCY.
I'M REALLY EXCITED TO, I THINK, TO, TO DIG INTO SOME OF THOSE TOPICS SUSPECT, ESPECIALLY WITH RESILIENCY, IS THAT AS A NEW, UM, A NEW COMPONENT THAT WE'RE DEALING WITH, UH, DURING THIS ROUND.
SO ARE THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS PROCESS-WISE FOR, FOR ME, UH, COMMISSIONERS OR, UM, UH, CHARLOTTE WHERE I STEP OUT? I THINK EVERYBODY'S
[01:55:02]
PRETTY GOOD.WELL WITH THAT, WE HAVE A MOTION TO ADJOURN.
SECOND, ANY FURTHER DISCUSSION ALL IN FAVOR.