[Call to Order]
[00:00:09]
MEETING OF THE AD RESULTS COMMITTEE TO WATER. AND THE FIRST THING ON OUR AGENDA IS A PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE. PLEASE STAND FOR THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE TO THE FLAG OF THE NATIVE AMERICAN ERICA AND JAMES THE REPUBLIC FOR WHICH IT STANDS STANDS FOR IN LIGHT UNDER INDIVISIBLE WOULD NEVER EVER TAKE SUCH JUSTICE.
THERE ARE NO WE GOT TO WORK ON THAT. AND THAT'S WHY I WANT MY THERE'S NO LEGS IN THAT THING. I'M LIKE I'M ALMOST DONE AND YOU GUYS ARE STILL LA.
[Approval of Agenda]
>> THAT'S OK. I NEED A MOTION FOR APPROVAL OF THE AGENDA.
PLEASE, MADAM CHAIR, I MAKE A MOTION EVERY APPROVED DEFENSE AGENDA.
>> OK, I CAN'T. >> ALL RIGHT. ALL IN FAVOR AGENDA SIGNIFY BY SAYING I I. OK. THAT'S 3 0.
>> THERE'S NO PUBLIC COMMENTS, EXTRA LIGHTS, NO PUBLIC COMMENTS, OK.
[Review the Current Results Section and Discuss Possible Changes.]
SO OUR WORK TODAY IS TO REVIEW THE CURRENT RESULTS SECTION AND DISCUSS POSSIBLE CHANGES.SO THERE WERE TWO THINGS I WANTED TO KIND OF FOCUS ON TODAY.
IF WE GO TO THE DOCUMENT THAT IS THE FIRST DOCUMENT THE EVALUATION BY RAISED AND I'LL
GO TO PAGE AND SEE THE PAGE. >> IT DOESN'T HAVE A PAGE NUMBER BUT IT HAS THE MEASURABLE COMPONENTS OF THE EVALUATION, THE STUDENT ACHIEVEMENT AND THE TEACHER RETENTION AND RECRUITMENT AND RETENTION SO THAT UNDER A IT'S UP UNDER THE FIRST THING THAT
YOU SEE THAT IT I'M JUST OKAY. >> SO IS IT BE BLUE AND GOLD ONE OR THE ONE THAT'S MORE LIKE A TABLE WITH THE EFFECT? YOU KNOW THE EFFECTIVE POINTS WAS IT'S NOT A DOCUMENT EVALUATION DOCUMENT ITSELF. IT'S THE INSTRUMENT IT'S THE ONE THAT'S LIKE A TABLE.
I THINK IT'S ON THE SCREEN RIGHT NOW. YEAH.
ALL RIGHT. SO I'LL GO BACK TO IT. OK.
AND WITH YOU SO LET'S KIND OF DISCUSS FIRST. THE TEACHER RECRUITMENT AND RETENTION YOU CAN SEE THAT THIS YEAR THAT THAT EVALUATION THAT WE JUST DID IN OCTOBER OR
WHENEVER WE DID IT. >> DR. BECAUSE WE DID NOT EVALUATE THAT BECAUSE OF THE IN BEING AT THIS REDUCED TEACHER VACANCIES AND REDUCED THE NUMBER OF SHORT TERM SUBSTITUTE DAYS. AGAIN, I DON'T KNOW HOW IT WOULD BE FAIR TO EVALUATE IN THIS THIS WHOLE YEAR HAS BEEN CODED AND WE'VE PROBABLY DUE TO CODE BUT I KNOW WE'VE LOST A LOT OF TEACHERS AND THAT'S TOTALLY BEYOND. SO WHAT ARE YOUR THOUGHTS THOUGH? WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THAT COMPONENT OF THE EVALUATION? YEAH, I MEAN I THINK I THINK IT IS. IT WAS FINE IN TERMS OF WELL I GUESS OUTSIDE THE IF I TAKE THE EVALUATION OUT OF IT FOR FOR A MINUTE.
RIGHT AND JUST THINK ABOUT THE YEAR IN THE PRACTICE. RIGHT.
AND SO WHAT I THINK ABOUT IT IS THAT IT WAS FINE PROGRESSING UNTIL WE GOT TO THE POINT WHERE WE SAID WE NEED TO GO IN FIVE DAYS A WEEK. RIGHT.
AND THEN THAT'S WHERE PEOPLE HAD TO MAKE PERSONAL DECISIONS ABOUT WHETHER THEY WERE COMFORTABLE WITH FIVE DAYS A WEEK OR NOT COMFORTABLE WITH FIVE DAYS A WEEK.
AND AND WHETHER WHAT HAVE YOU. RIGHT. AND AND THEN HAD TO MAKE PERSONAL DECISIONS AROUND IT WASN'T IT WASN'T A DECISION AROUND YOU.
DO I WANT TO TALK TO BE EMPLOYED IN BEAUFORT COUNTY SCHOOL DISTRICT? AM I UNHAPPY WITH THE CULTURAL CLIMATE AND I WANT TO MOVE SOMEPLACE ELSE? IT WAS A DECISION AROUND. I'M JUST NOT COMFORTABLE. HEALTH AND SAFETY WITH FIVE DAYS A WEEK. SO I'M I'M GONNA I'M GONNA GO OR I'M GOING TO RETIRE OR I'M GOING TO WHATEVER THEIR CHOICES WERE. AND SO THOSE ARE BEYOND BEYOND
[00:05:03]
OUR CONTROL AND WE HAVE TO MAKE SOME DECISIONS SOMETIMES THAT ARE IN THE BEST INTERESTS OF STUDENTS AND SOMETIMES THAT DOESN'T ALWAYS ALIGN WITH WITH WHAT ADULTS THINK IS BEST.YOU KNOW, IN TERMS OF THEIR PERSPECTIVE. AND SO WE KNOW THAT FACE TO FACE SCHOOLING IS IMPORTANT THAT IT IS SIGNIFICANTLY BETTER THAN THEN HAVING TO DO VIRTUAL INSTRUCTION. AND WE USE THE DATA TO GET OURSELVES TO THE POINT WHERE WE THOUGHT IT WAS SAFE TO GO BACK AND WHEN WE DID, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN SEE SOME OF THAT EFFECT THAT SOME PEOPLE HAD TO MAKE OTHER PERSONAL DECISIONS FOR THEMSELVES.
SO THAT IS, YOU KNOW, IN EFFECT BEYOND OUR CONTROL OR MY CONTROL.
RIGHT. WE JUST HAVE TO MAKE DECISIONS IN THE BEST INTEREST OF KIDS ABOUT RIGHT. RIGHT. THERE'S NO WAY WE CAN IN MY OPINION THAT WE CAN EVALUATE BECAUSE LIKE YOU SAID TO BALANCE NEEDS OF THE STUDENT SOME TIMES THAT AFFECTED THE ISSUES. BUT I THINK WHAT IF WE IF WE'RE LOOKING FOR SOMETHING ELSE BUT I THINK HAS BEEN IMPORTANT IN THESE TIMES IS TEACHER ADVOCACY AND TEACHER RELATIONSHIP AND SUPPORT IN OTHER WAYS. I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S A WAY TO QUANTIFY THAT. IT'S GOING TO BE LESS NUMERIC. BUT IF WE'RE LOOKING AT YOU KNOW, HOW MUCH OUTREACH, ADVOCACY AND SUPPORT DO WE PROVIDE TEACHERS TO GET THROUGH THIS TIME THAT MIGHT BE A DIFFERENT WAY TO LOOK AT THE SAME ISSUE.
>> AND THAT MIGHT BE INCLUDED IN THE STAFF RELATIONS COMPONENT OF THE EVALUATE AND LEADERS THE SOFTER SIDE OF THE EVALUATION. SO YOU KNOW, I DO RECALL THAT WE ACTUALLY STARTED THE SCHOOL YEAR WITH FEWER VACANT SEES. WE DID IT.
WE HAVE IN THE PAST WE DID TO BE HONEST WITH YOU WHEN WE LOOK AT OUR RETENTION DATA FROM LAST YEAR, WE ACTUALLY HAD IMPROVE IN OUR TEACHER RETENTION NUMBERS.
RIGHT. AND WE ACTUALLY HAD THAT YOU'RE CORRECT.
WE STARTED THE YEAR WITH FEWER VACANCIES THAN WE HAD IN THE PAST EVEN IN SPECIAL WHICH IS AN AREA WHICH. YEAH THAT'S TYPICALLY CHALLENGING.
RIGHT. SO I WONDER IF SOME YOU KNOW WE WE DIDN'T DO THIS LAST YEAR BUT I WONDER IF THIS YEAR WE SHOULD DOCUMENT THE INFORMATION BUT I GUESS WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING TO COMPARE TO BECAUSE WE DIDN'T COMPARE IT JUST TO AS A POINT MOVING FORWARD.
>> SO IF WE SAID OK THIS TO COLLECT THE INFORMATION NOW YOU KNOW AND THIS REDUCE TEACHER VACANCIES LIKE SLASH OR EVEN CHANGE THAT TO BEGIN IN YEAR VACANCIES OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. BECAUSE I DO KNOW. AND TO ME THAT'S A SIGN OF RECRUITMENT WHEN YOU'RE GOING OUT AND TRYING TO HIRE PEOPLE UP AND CONVINCE THEM TO COME TO OUR SCHOOL DISTRICT. OUR RECRUITING TEAMS DID A REALLY GOOD JOB WITH THAT THIS YEAR EVEN THOUGH IT WAS UNKNOWN AT THE TIME. WELL, WE WERE GOING TO BE IN PERSON VIRTUAL AND THEN THE RETENTION IS KIND OF LIKE A DIFFERENT PIECE AND THIS YEAR BECAUSE OF COMBAT THAT THERE ARE NO SO ANY OTHER THOUGHTS YET?
>> THE TRICKY PART IS GOING TO BE HOW DO WE NUMERICALLY QUANTIFY ANYTHING IN IT? RIGHT. BECAUSE THERE'S THE WHOLE POINT OF DOING THESE SORTS NUMERICAL QUANTIFICATION IS TO BENCHMARK AND I DON'T WANT TO ESTABLISH A NEW BENCHMARK AND B WE CAN'T BENCHMARK THIS TO OUR LAST PANDEMIC 1917. SO I ALMOST WONDER IF WE SHOULD JUST SORT OF REALLY FOCUS ON DOCUMENTING WHAT WAS DONE AND THE VALUE THAT IT ADDED TO THE
DISTRICT AND TO THE BOARD. >> YEAH WELL IN AGAIN I THINK THAT THAT COMES IN THE THE
OTHER PART IT COMES UP AT THE TOPIC. >> BUT HOW WE WHEN WE DEVELOPED THIS AND THE THOUGHT PROCESS BEHIND IT, THOSE TYPES OF THINGS WOULD HAVE COME UP IN
THE STAFF RELATIONS. >> I THINK YOU MIGHT I DON'T KNOW WE COULD KEEP WE COULD SEPARATE RECRUITMENT RETENTION IN SHORT TERM SUBSTITUTE DAYS. MR. CAMPBELL'S TRYING TO SAY OH
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OK, YES, MR. CANNON, WHAT I WAS TRYING TO SAY IS ONE HARD FEELINGS ARE THE MINDSET OF THE TEACHERS RIGHT NOW THAT WE HAVE BECAUSE UNTIL ALL OF OUR TEACHERS GIVE IT A SHOT, WE WON'T KNOW HOW THEY'RE GOING TO FEEL ABOUT COMING BACK IN THE CLASSROOM.>> SO HOW HAVE ANY ONE BEEN TALKING TO THE TEACHERS TO FIND YOU KNOW WHAT? WHAT THEY DID THEY THINK WELL, I I'VE ONLY BEEN TALKING TO TEACHERS THAT ARE IN SCHOOL BECAUSE I'VE VISITED THE SCHOOLS HERE ON HILTON HEAD AND BASICALLY THE ELEMENTARY
TEACHERS ARE LIKE I DIDN'T KNOW NONE OF THEM SAID ANYTHING. >> ANY HESITATION ABOUT BEING IN SCHOOL? THEY ALL RECOGNIZE THAT THEY'RE KIDS.
THE ELEMENTARY KIDS NEED TO BE THERE. THE MIDDLE SCHOOL AND SECOND DAIRIES OF HIGH SCHOOL HAVE A LITTLE BIT MORE TREPIDATION BUT THEY'RE THERE.
SO I THINK MR. CAMPBELL, ONE OF THE ONE OF THE THE COMPONENTS HERE IS THAT THAT THE MORE TIME THEY'VE SPENT IN THE BUILDING RIGHT. THE MORE COMFORTABLE THEY BECOME IN THE BUILDING. RIGHT. GIVEN GIVEN THE FACT THAT THAT IS JUST A SCARY THING TO GO BACK IN FOR THAT. RIGHT.
OK, BUT THEN I CAN I CAN JUST TELL YOU THE THE VACCINE COMPONENT YOU KNOW, WE HAD A SIGNIFICANT AMOUNT OF EMPLOYEES INDICATE THAT THEY WOULD TAKE THE VACCINE WHEN WHEN IT WAS AVAILABLE. NOW THAT THEY'RE MOVING UP INTO ONE BE NEXT WEEK.
RIGHT. THAT THERE THAT THEY'RE OPENING IT UP FOR ONE NEXT WEEK.
THE CHALLENGE WE'RE GOING TO HAVE NOW IS THAT IT'S A SUPPLY ISSUE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SCHOOL DISTRICT. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THE HOSPITAL.
RIGHT. IT'S GONNA BECOME A SUPPLY ISSUE.
WILL THEY GET THE SUPPLY THAT THEY NEED TO DO THE MASS VACCINE? RIGHT. BECAUSE YOU HAVE A CAPTIVE AUDIENCE WITH TEACHERS YOU CAN SAY HEY, THIS IS YOUR DAY. IT'S GOING TO BE THIS SATURDAY. AND IF YOU WANT IT, YOU SIGN UP TO PICK A TIME AND YOU CAN COME AND THEY CAN DO OUR WHOLE OF OUR EMPLOYEES ON SATURDAY.
YOU KNOW, IT'S JUST THE VACCINE ASPECT OF AND THEN THEY'VE GOT TO BALANCE DOING THAT WITH WHATEVER SUPPLY THEY GET WITH A POLITICAL ASPECT OF THAT YOU HAVE.
I DON'T AROUND 8000 OR 9000 PEOPLE ON A WAITING LIST RIGHT ? MAYBE. RIGHT. AND SO WHAT'S THEIR BALANCE AND SAYING WE'RE GOING TO OPEN IT UP ON A SATURDAY, USE OUR ENTIRE SUPPLY FOR TEACHERS.
AND THAT PUSHES EVERYBODY ELSE FURTHER BACK. RIGHT.
SO THAT I DON'T MAKE THAT DECISION BUT THAT THEY DO AND THEY'VE GOT TO BALANCE THAT.
YOU KNOW, WHAT DO YOU THINK THAT YOUR MEETING THURSDAY YOU WOULD HAVE SOME BETTER INFORMED
ACTION AS FAR AS THE NUMBER OF VACCINE THEY WILL HAVE? >> I HOPE TO KNOW WHAT OTHER QUESTIONS I'M GOING TO ASK THEM IS ARE THEY GOING TO DO A SPECIAL ALLOCATION RIGHT OF VACCINES FOR TEACHERS OR NOT ? THAT'S A QUESTION I WANT TO KNOW. RIGHT. BECAUSE IF THEY ARE THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL RIGHT THEN THEN THEN THEY DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT IMPACTING THEIR WAITING LIST AND TAKING CARE OF THE TEACHERS IF THEY'VE GOT A SPECIAL ALLOCATION.
SO OF MR. CAMPBELL, ANSWER YOUR QUESTION. I HOPE TO GET MORE INFORMATION TOMORROW AROUND THAT WHEN I GO TO THE MEETING. I DON'T KNOW THAT YET BUT I HOPE TO GET IT. I WILL ASK QUESTIONS FOR SURE. THANK YOU.
YES, SIR. I THINK FROM THE RESULTS IN THE VACCINE THINGS INTERESTING THAT IF I WAS IN CHARGE OF ALL THIS I'D I'D SET ASIDE THE JOHNSON AND JOHNSON FOR THE TEACHERS.
BUT AND THAT'S THE QUESTION IS BECAUSE THAT'S A ONE DOSE THING IF YOU LEAVE ACT NOW THE TEACHERS AT JOHNSON JOHNSON, THEY DON'T HAVE TO WAIT A MONTH FOR THEIR SECOND ONE.
BUT AS FAR AS THE RESULTS THING GOES, WHAT I THINK WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE DOCUMENTED IN OUR EVALUATION IS THE FACT THAT I KNOW DR. RODRIGUEZ WENT DOOR TO DOOR ALMOST TEACHER TO TEACHER WHEN TEACHERS HAD CONCERNS HE MET WITH THEM. YOU WHAT WERE THE SORT OF THINGS THAT WERE DONE TO SUPPORT TEACHERS THROUGH THIS TIME WHICH AGAIN IS A SOFT NUMBER BUT I'D LIKE TO SEE SOMEHOW IF WE COULD DOCUMENT THAT THAT WAS DONE, YOU KNOW THAT THOSE EXTRA STEPS WERE TAKEN. MS. GO RIGHT TO YOUR POINT. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE DID DO IS DURING THIS SECOND HALF
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OF THE YEAR IN JUNE FROM JANUARY TO THE END OF THE YEAR WE CONTINUED ACCOMMODATIONS EVEN THOUGH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT STOPPED THE ACCOMMODATIONS.WE COULD HAVE WE COULD JUST SAID EVERYBODY BACK IT'S OVER TOOK COMBINATIONS ARE OVER, YOU KNOW. BUT WE WE WE TRIED TO TOO. SO THAT'S AN EXAMPLE, RIGHT? OF OF WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. SO WHAT I'M HEARING IS PERHAPS WE TAKE THIS TEACHER RECRUITMENT AND RETENTION AND YOU KNOW, WE'RE NOT GOING TO HAVE THE IN ADDITION TO REDUCE TEACHER VACANCIES AND REDUCE THE NUMBER OF SHORT TERM
SUBSTITUTE DAYS. >> THOSE MEASURABLE THINGS WE CAN ADD ANOTHER COMPONENT ACTIONS TAKEN TO TO SUPPORT THE TEACHERS WHERE WE'RE DR. RODRIGUEZ, WOULD WE THEN FILL IN THOSE SPECIFIC THINGS AND I'M WONDERING IF WE COULD ADD AT, YOU KNOW, RECRUITMENT AS A SEPARATE MEASURABLE THING AND ACTUALLY IF WE DEFINE RECRUITMENT BASED ON THE NUMBER OF OPENINGS THAT WE START THE SCHOOL YEAR WITH, YOU KNOW, IF WE DECREASE THAT EVERY YEAR
THEN WE'RE RECRUITING BETTER. >> RIGHT. WE'RE DOING A BETTER JOB WITH RECRUITMENT. SO IF WE ADDED THAT THAT IS SOMETHING THAT IS MEASURABLE.
WELL, ALL OF THESE ARE GREAT BUT THAT DIDN'T SEEM TO BE IMPACTED BY THE CODED AS MUCH
AS FROM. >> YES AND NO. BECAUSE IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT JUST RETAINING THE RETENTION OR THE RECRUITMENT PIECE DITCHING THE RETENTION PIECE TO ME THERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF DISINGENUOUSNESS THERE BECAUSE YOU'RE SAYING OH, THE COBRA DIDN'T AFFECT RECRUITMENT BECAUSE OUR RECRUITMENT NUMBERS WERE GOOD BUT COBURN DID REFLECT WE WERE. RIGHT. YOU KNOW AND THAT'S WHY I'M SAY I JUST DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY POINT IN TRYING TO QUANTIFY IT. BUT I MEAN THIS IS MY OPINION.
YOU KNOW, QUANTIFY THIS BECAUSE WE CAN'T BENCHMARK IT. WHAT ARE WE USING THESE NUMBERS FOR? WE'RE NOT COMPARING IT TO ANYTHING.
YEAH, WELL. OK. SO BUT WE WILL BE ABLE TO LOOK AT OUR RECRUITMENT EFFORT EFFORTS OVER THE SUMMER. RIGHT.
THIS IS COMING OUT IN THE FALL, IS IT NOT RIGHT? IT IS.
SO THAT'S YOU KNOW, THIS IS THIS IS GOING FORWARD. SO YOU KNOW, IF WE USED WE GO BACK I'M JUST WONDERING IF IF WE IN ADDITION TO REDUCE TEACHER VACANCIES IN THIS METRIC THAT WE SHOULD AND THE SHORT TERM DAYS THAT IF WE SHOULD HAVE THE INCREASED RECRUITMENT NUMBERS I THINK WHEN WE SAW THIS WE WERE INITIALLY THINKING REDUCING TEACHER VACANCIES WAS A REFLECTION OF RECRUITMENT THERE.
BUT IT'S NOT NECESSARILY THE SAME BECAUSE IT'S THAT'S THE RETENTION PIECE.
RIGHT. SO I THINK IT'S A COMBINATION. YOU KNOW I MEAN I MEAN TO RECRUITMENT SO SO YOU RETENTION RIGHT IS IS ONE MEASURE. BUT BUT INHERENT IN RETENTION IS THAT YOU'RE STILL GOING TO HAVE VACANCIES EVEN IF YOU RETAIN EVERYBODY THAT YOU NEED TO BE DEAD THAT THAT THAT IS ELIGIBLE FOR RETENTION. RIGHT.
YOU YOU'RE STILL GOING TO HAVE VACANCIES BECAUSE YOU'RE STILL GOING TO HAVE RETIREMENTS AND A RETIREMENT IS NOT NECESSARILY SOMEBODY LEAVING YOU BECAUSE BECAUSE THEY'RE FRUSTRATED OR WHATEVER. RIGHT. A RETIREMENT IS SOMEBODY WHO THE END OF THEIR CAREER. RIGHT. ON THE OTHER END, EVEN IN RETENTION SOMEBODY LEAVING YOU BECAUSE THEIR WIFE GOT A PROMOTION IN THEIR JOB AND THEY HAVE TO MOVE TO NEBRASKA. RIGHT. THEY'VE GOT TO GO.
RIGHT. BUT IT'S STILL A VACANCY. RIGHT.
SO SO THAT COUNTS AGAINST YOUR RETENTION. BUT IT'S NOT A NEGATIVE RETENTION. IT JUST IS. RIGHT.
AND THE OTHER PART ABOUT RETENTION IS THAT IT'S MAYBE NOT EVERYBODY SHOULD BE
RETAINED RIGHT NOW. >> YOU KNOW, SOMETIMES. RIGHT.
SO SO YOUR POINT I THINK IS THAT YOU WANT TO START THE YEAR ,YOU KNOW, AS FULLY STAFFED AS
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YOU CAN START THE YEAR AND YOU GET THAT THROUGH RETENTION AND YOU GET IT.>> THAT'S. RECRUITMENT IS SORT OF A COMBO TO GET YOU THERE.
WELL, YOU KNOW, WE NEVER HAD A SENSE WE WE HADN'T. YOU KNOW, THIS IS A NEW INSTRUMENT AND WE WE DIDN'T APPLY IT LAST YEAR. SO WE DIDN'T HAVE THIS KIND OF IN-DEPTH DISCUSSION WHEN WE LOOKED AT THESE TWO METRICS AND NOW SITTING HERE TALKING ABOUT IT. I I SEE THAT THERE ARE SOME YOU KNOW, MAYBE THERE'S SOME ERROR IN WHAT WE'RE ACTUALLY TRYING TO MEASURE OR IN THIS DANIEL, DO YOU HAVE ANY THOUGHTS? I ALWAYS THOUGHT WAS SITTING RIGHT NOW. I DO THINK YOU JUST HIT ON SOMETHING AND I THINK THAT CONVERSATION HAS BEEN AROUND THE PART OF COVERED OR NOT COVERED . WHERE DO WE SET A BENCHMARK AND WHAT IS TRUE BENCHMARK IN THESE TIMES? BUT I THINK YOU'RE HITTING ON HOW FRAGILE THIS INSTRUMENT TURNED OUT TO BE. SO I THINK I THINK I CAME INTO LESSON TODAY BECAUSE I KNOW THERE'S POTENTIAL CHANGES SO WHEN I LISTEN AND HEAR THE KIND OF THE MOOD AND DIRECTION.
BUT WHAT I'M HEARING IS I THINK I THINK THAT IT'S KIND OF A AN UNDERTONE OF THE FRAGILITY OF OF THIS METRIC AND THIS OVERALL TOOL BECAUSE IT IS SO DEPENDENT ON NEWNESS.
>> RIGHT. SO YOU KNOW, THERE MIGHT NOT BE HARD NUMBERS ON CERTAIN THINGS.
THESE ARE ALMOST ALL HARD NUMBERS. AND ONE INTERRUPTION IN THE SYSTEM WE'VE REMOVED ALL THE HARD NUMBERS FOR AN ENTIRE YEAR.
AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE REALLY GETTING INTO TWO YEARS OF REMOVAL OF HARD NUMBERS.
RIGHT. I THINK THERE'S SOME FRAGILE YOU SAID FRAGILITY.
I THINK THERE'S SOME FRAGILITY IN SEVERAL AREAS ON THE INSTRUMENT THAT SOME OF THEM HIGHLIGHTED BY COVERED IMPACT OF CODED BIDS. SOME OF IT IN REFLECTION AND IN RETROSPECT AFTERWARD WHICH YOU KNOW I KNOW I KNOW WE'LL TALK SOME MORE AND I I UNFORTUNATELY HAVE A TWELVE O'CLOCK THAT SOMEBODY IS COMING TO ME SO I HAVE TO POP INTO THAT ALSO.
BUT. BUT I KNOW THERE'S OTHER ASPECTS THAT YOU'RE GOING TO DISCUSS TODAY I THINK HIGHLIGHT SOME SOME FRAGILE COMPONENTS OF THIS WELL FOR MULTIPLE REASONS SOME MAY BE COVERED RELATED AND THAT SOME SOME OF IT NOT NECESSARILY COVERED . WELL, I'M SORRY. GO AHEAD.
YOU GO CHAIR MADAM CHAIR, SINCE I WAS ON THE COMMITTEE THAT DESIGNED IT OR CAME UP WITH THAT, I CAN TELL YOU THAT THE TEACHER RECRUITMENT AND RETENTION THAT TITLE IS THERE BECAUSE THAT'S ONE OF OUR BOAT BOARD GOALS. RIGHT, THAT WE WANT TO RETAIN TEACHERS AND RECRUIT AND THEN THAT THEN WE'RE LIKE OH WELL HOW WOULD WE MEASURE IT? AND THAT'S WHAT WE CAME UP WITH. BUT NOW THAT WE'RE ACTUALLY TALKING ABOUT APPLYING THE MEASUREMENT IN TERMS OF WHAT NUMBERS WOULD WE PUT THERE, I SEE THAT THERE'S WE NEED TO BE MORE SPECIFIC. WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT REALLY WHAT YOU KNOW, WHAT IS REDUCING THE TEACHER VACANCIES MEAN AND I THINK THERE'S SOME ROOM TO REVISE THAT. AGAIN, OUR GOAL FOR THIS WAS THAT THIS IS A BROAD GOAL TO INCREASE TEACHER RECRUITMENT AND RETENTION. SO THE QUESTION IS THEN HOW OTHER THAN THESE TWO. IS THERE A WAY TO QUANTIFY THAT ? HOW CAN WE MEASURE THAT? SO THAT'S WHERE WE MAYBE HAVE TO START THINKING AND FOR ANOTHER MEETING, YOU KNOW, MAYBE IF WE JUST ALL COME TO THE TABLE WITH SOME IDEAS ABOUT THAT. I THINK WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING AT IS THE MOST BROAD STROKE RIGHT NOW WHICH IS DO WE CAN WE QUANTIFY THIS DATA YEAR OVER YEAR? SO TO DANIEL'S POINT. MY THING IS IF YOU'RE GOING TO QUANTIFY IT MAKES SOME SENSE IF YOU'VE GOT I'M GOING TO BUST OUT MY NEW STATISTICS A LARGE SAMPLE.
RIGHT. WE DON'T. WE'VE GOT ONE YEAR AND THEN WE'VE GOT YOU KNOW, THIS FALLS OUTSIDE THE INTERVAL OF THE SAMPLING DISTRIBUTE.
I'M JUST GETTING. BUT YOU KNOW, IF YOU HAVE A LOT OF DATA IF WE'VE BEEN USING THIS INSTRUMENT TRACKING IT, TRACKING TO TRACKING AND TRACKING IT, IT'S USEFUL TO STARTING IT RIGHT NOW. I THINK IT HAS VERY LITTLE USE IN TERMS OF PEOPLE WANT TO QUANTIFY THIS STUFF THAT IS FUNDAMENTAL. IT'S LIKE IN HEALTH CARE.
HOW DO YOU QUANTIFY YOUR PAIN? HOW DO YOU QUANTIFY ALL THESE DIFFERENT THINGS? AND THERE'S A LOT OF PROBLEMS UNLESS YOU HAVE A HUGE DATA TO DRAW FROM.
WE DON'T. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT ONE GUY AND THIS IS YEAR TWO.
SO I THINK WE HAVE TO DECIDE IF WE WANT TO EVEN IF THERE'S A WAY WE CAN DO IT.
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IT'S NOT AS QUANTIFIED BUT STILL IS SOMETHING THAT GIVES A GOOD PICTURE TO TAKE TO THE FULL BOARD. I THINK WE CAN GET ALL THE NUMBERS FOR THE LAST FIVE YEARS AT LEAST THE NUMBER SHORT TERM SUBSTITUTE DAYS NUMBERS FOR A BUT YOU CAN GET NUMBERS FOR BOTH BECAUSE THIS IS PART OF A CHA'S ANNUAL REPORT. SO H.R. ALREADY TRACKS THIS ANNUALLY. RIGHT. SO REBUTTAL ME WHAT WE NEED TO DO PRIOR TO OUR NEXT MEETING IS ACTUALLY HAVE THAT DATA FOR IN EACH OF THESE AREAS TO LOOK AND TO SEE IF I DON'T KNOW THAT. BUT I KNOW THAT THE DAD IS THERE.YEAH. FROM PREVIOUS YEARS I MEAN THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING TO LOOK AT AGAIN WE'RE STILL LOOKING BEING SUCH A ONE OFF BUT THEN AS FAR AS LIKE HOW THE INSTRUMENT HOLDS UP OVER TIME. RIGHT. AND THAT'S YOU KNOW THAT'S KIND OF WHY YOU KNOW THERE WERE PERCENTAGES IN THERE AND AND YOU KNOW I DON'T I I I THINK THE THE INSTRUMENT ITSELF THE THE INEFFECTIVE EFFECTIVE THOSE PERCENTAGE IS MAY NOT BE ABLE TO BE APPLIED BECAUSE OF THE ONE OFF. SO I GUESS IF WE LOOKED AT ALL THE DATA FOR THE PRECEDING YEARS YOU KNOW I BECAUSE I KNOW OFTEN WE ASK ALICE WHEN SHE DOES PRESENTATIONS TO US HOW DOES THIS COMPARE OF LAST YEAR? HOW IS JUST COMPARE THE PREVIOUS YEAR BECAUSE TO YOU KNOW, WE'RE ALWAYS THINKING THAT IF WE'RE BETTER THAN THE PREVIOUS YEAR THEN WE'RE MOVING FORWARD. BUT THAT MIGHT NOT BE TRUE EITHER BECAUSE THE PREVIOUS YEAR MAY HAVE BEEN A BACKWARD YEAR.
SO I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT. I MEAN I THINK WE NEED TO MAYBE GET SOME DATA STUDIES AND THEN REVISIT THIS. WHAT YOU THINK? I THINK THE FIRST QUESTION SHOULD BE SHOULD WE JUST ABANDON SOME DRAMATIC THIS AND DO A CERTAIN LIKE A SPECIAL THING THIS YEAR? BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW IF ANYTHING WE DO THIS YEAR AND THEN WE'LL I WHAT I THINK WE RISK IS IF WE'RE LOOKING AT FIVE YEARS OF DATA AND THE SIX YEAR IS KIND OF JUST A WEIRD OUTLIER I DON'T KNOW THAT THAT HELPS THE LONG TERM VIEW OF THE DATA TOO. SO IF THAT'S THE CASE WE COULD SET THIS ASIDE.
THIS THIS INSTRUMENT REVISITED NEXT YEAR AND FOR THIS YEAR JUST COME UP WITH SOMETHING THAT REFLECTS THE UNUSUAL REALITY OF IT. AND THAT'S WHAT WE DID THIS YEAR. WE PUT THIS PORTION THE INSTRUMENT ASIDE BUT WE DID NOT REPLACE IT. SO I THINK THEN IF WE WANT TO DO THAT, THEN WE CAN SHIFT OUR FOCUS TO TO STARTING TO COME UP WITH AN IDEA OF WHAT WE COULD REPLACE UNDER THAT THE TITLE OF TEACHER RECRUITMENT AND RETENTION, WHAT WE COULD REPLACE.
AND I THINK INGRID, YOU'VE SUGGESTED SOME THINGS WHERE THE YOU KNOW, DR. RODRIGUEZ HAS DONE ALL THOSE ACTIVITIES, THE SPECIFIC ACTIVITIES AND THOSE COULD JUST BE IT COULD BE A LIST OF THINGS THAT WERE DONE TO YOU KNOW, THAT WERE DONE. SO HE'D HAVE TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO TITLE IT. BUT I THINK THAT YOU KNOW, I THINK A LOT OF THINGS THAT DISTRICT HAS DONE TAKING GREAT STRIDES TO RETAIN TEACHERS THIS YEAR THEY'VE YOU KNOW, THE THIS
STUFF THAT THEY'VE DONE WAS CHILD CARE. >> I MEAN OH MY GOODNESS.
YOU KNOW, I AND I THINK THAT SHOULD BE RECOGNIZED THE CHILD CARE AND THE THE THE WAY YOU CAN GO ONLINE AND GET SOME SUPPORT OR COUNSELING WHATEVER THAT'S CALLED, THOSE TYPES OF THINGS SHOULD ALL BE LISTED AS STRATEGIES TAKEN TO MAYBE, YOU KNOW, TO RETAIN TEACHERS DURING THIS TIME OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT. SO SO I I I'VE COME AWAY WITH TWO TAKEAWAYS HERE. ONE IS AGAIN THAT WE WOULD RECOMMEND TO THE TO THE TO THE WHOLE GROUP THAT AGAIN THOSE THESE RECRUITMENT AND TEACHER RECRUITMENT AND RETENTION METRICS NOT TO USE LIKE THEY WEREN'T USED THIS YEAR AND BE REPLACED BY AND THEN COME AND
[00:30:06]
COME UP WITH WHAT WE SUGGEST REPLACE THEM. EARL, WHAT DO YOU THINK? OK. SO WE'LL GET HER RECRUITMENT RETENTION FOR NOW THOSE METRICSREPLACE IT WITH. >> OK. WHAT HAS BEEN DONE TO RETAIN TEACHERS THIS YEAR TO SUPPORT OUR TEACHERS AND THEN HAVE THOSE THINGS LISTED AND WE MAY YOU KNOW, AGAIN, WE'D PROBABLY HAVE TO GO BACK TO THE THE OTHER RUBRIC, THE TOP OF THE RUBRIC WHERE WE AGAIN IT WAS EFFECTIVE MINIMALLY EFFECTIVE AND AND WE COULD WRITE OUT SOME
DEFINITIONS THOSE IF WE THOUGHT OKAY BUT I WONDER, YOU KNOW. >> OKAY.
SO BASICALLY WE HAVE THE PROFESSIONAL PRACTICE GRADING. RIGHT.
RIGHT. AND THEN WE HAVE THIS OTHER INSTRUMENT.
THE OTHER PROBLEM IS GOING TO BE STUDENT ACHIEVEMENT. THAT'S RIGHT.
AND THAT'S WHY THAT'S WHY I DECIDED TO TALK ABOUT THIS FIRST BECAUSE I THOUGHT THIS MIGHT BE A LITTLE EASIER REALLY IN IN SITTING HERE AND DISCUSSING IT.
>> ISN'T THAT MUCH EASIER? >> YEAH. SO LET'S.
CAN WE JUMP TO THE STUDENT ACHIEVEMENT YET? I'M DR. IVEY BECAUSE I KNOW YOU SAID YOU HAD TO GO. SO YEAH, THIS IS A FEW THINGS I WANTED TO SAY PARTICULARLY ABOUT THE STUDENT ACHIEVEMENT. ALL RIGHT. WHEN YOU'RE READY.
GO AHEAD. YEAH. SO OBVIOUSLY THERE'S CHALLENGES WITH WITH THE STUDENT ACHIEVEMENT PIECE, RIGHT? IS IS THE NONTRADITIONAL ASPECT OF THE YEAR THE THE MODALITY THAT THAT WE'VE HAD TO MOVE THROUGH TO GET OURSELVES BACK TO FIVE DAYS A WEEK? THE IMPACT OF OF THE PANDEMIC VIRTUAL INSTRUCTION.
RIGHT. ALL OF THESE THINGS SORT OF MAKE IT MESSY.
BUT I THINK JUST IN GENERAL PANDEMIC ASIDE. RIGHT.
ONE OF THE CHALLENGE IS THAT I SEE IN THIS METRIC ON STUDENT ACHIEVEMENT AND I DIDN'T REALIZE THIS. TO BE HONEST WITH WHEN WE WERE GOING THROUGH THIS LAST YEAR.
RIGHT. IS IS I AM CURRENTLY THE ONLY EMPLOYEE IN THE SCHOOL DISTRICT THAT IS HELD ACCOUNTABLE TO STUDENT ACHIEVEMENT METRICS IN THE EVALUATION SYSTEM AND I AM THE FURTHEST REMOVED FROM THE CLASSROOM WHERE THE TEACHING AND LEARNING TAKES PLACE.
RIGHT. RIGHT. AND TO ME THAT THAT IS IS CHALLENGING. WHEN I CAME FROM A SYSTEM AND IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA WHERE 50 80 PERCENT OF A TEACHER'S EVALUATION WAS STUDENT ACHIEVEMENT, 50 PERCENT WAS INSTRUCTIONAL PRACTICE. RIGHT. SAME THING FOR PRINCIPAL'S EVALUATION. SO IN A SYSTEM LIKE THAT IT MAKES SENSE WHEN YOU TIE STUDENT ACHIEVEMENT ALL THE WAY THROUGH. YOU CAN DRAW YOU CAN DRAW A LINE. RIGHT. IN OUR CURRENT REALITY, DEVALUATIONS ARE SET BY THE STATE. I DON'T HAVE ANY CONTROL OVER WHETHER THERE IS STUDENT ACHIEVEMENT METRIC OR NOT AT THE TEACHER LEVEL OR AT THE PRINCIPAL LEVEL. THAT'S NOT THE WAY THE STATE'S EVALUATION SYSTEM WORKS.
YET I'M THE FURTHEST INDIVIDUAL FROM THE CLASSROOM AND STUDENT ACHIEVEMENT METRICS IS TIED TO MY EVALUATION. I'M ALL ABOUT ACCOUNTABILITY AND I HAVE NO PROBLEM BEING ACCOUNTABLE BUT I THINK IT'S UNDERSTANDING THAT THAT'S THE EVALUATION SYSTEM IN SOUTH CAROLINA NOW. IT DOESN'T MAKE SENSE TO ME TO TIE IT IN THAT MANNER.
YOU KNOW, PANDEMIC ASIDE RIGHT . YOU KNOW, EASY TO SAY I AGREE BECAUSE I THINK THAT WHAT WE'RE EVALUATING WITH STUDENT ACHIEVEMENT IS POLICY.
YOU KNOW, AT THE HIGHEST LEVEL AND THEN HOW THAT POLICY GETS IMPLEMENT AND SO IT IS DIFFICULT TO DO BUT WE BOUGHT PERFORMANCE MATTERS. RIGHT.
THE POWER SCHOOL THAT HAVE ANY TOOLS THAT WOULD BE USEFUL IN THIS SITUATION DOES IT AS FAR
AS QUANTIFYING TEACHER RETENTION AND ALL THAT? >> NOT NOT REALLY RETENTION BUT IT'S MORE IT'S. SO I THINK OF ASSESSMENTS AS AN INSTRUCTIONAL TOOL, RIGHT.
[00:35:04]
PEOPLE THINK OF CURRICULUM INSTRUCTION ASSESSMENT AND THEY THINK SEPARATE BUT THAT THEY WORK TOGETHER. TO ME ASSESSMENT IS AN INSTRUCTIONAL TOOL PARTICULARLY WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT FORMATIVE ASSESSMENTS WHICH PERFORMANCE MATTERS.I ACTUALLY WANT TO DO A PRESENTATION AT THE WORKSTATION FOR THE BOARD SO YOU GET AN UNDERSTANDING FULL UNDERSTANDING OF PERFORMANCE MATTERS AND AND KIND OF WHAT WE WANT TO DO WITH IT. BUT BUT ESSENTIALLY IT'S GOT A FORMATIVE ASSESSMENT COMPONENT TO IT. IT'S DATA ANALYTICS TOOL TO LOOK NOT ONLY FORMATIVE ASSESSMENTS BUT TO LOOK AT SUMMATIVE ASSESSMENTS AND THINGS LIKE S.E. READY WOULD GO IN THERE AND ALL OF THAT. AND THEN AND THEN YOU CAN LOOK AT A STUDENT LONGITUDE AND YOU COULD LOOK AT EVERY STUDENT LONGITUDINALLY AND SEE HOW THEY'VE PROGRESSED FROM KINDERGARTEN THROUGH WHEREVER WITH ANY ASSESSMENTS THAT ARE THERE.
SO THERE'S A THERE'S A LOT OF VALUES, A LOT YOU CAN DO WITH IT.
BUT NOT IT'S NOT IT'S NOT A TEACHER RETENTION PIECE. I THINK THE OTHER PART OF THE METRIC TO RIGHT EVEN WHEN WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE LAST PIECE THIS JUST HIT ME WHEN WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE LAST COMPONENT AND I THINK KATHY, YOU BROUGHT UP IN THERE NOT JUST TEACHER RECRUITMENT, TEACHER RETENTION BUT THE I THINK IT WAS A SUBSTITUTE DAYS.
SO SO. SO LOOK, YOU KNOW, IF MY EVALUATION METRIC IS TWO DAYS NOT SUCH A DAY TIED TO STUDENT STUDENT ACHIEVEMENT OR STUDENT PERFORMANCE.
>> RIGHT. THERE'S I KNOW THAT I MAKE THE DIFFERENCE AS IS WHEN I'M IN THE CLASSROOM WITH THE STUDENT . THERE'S A CORRELATION, RIGHT? YOU KNOW WHAT I'M SAYING RIGHT . AND SO.
SO THERE'S A LOT OF ASPECTS AROUND THE STRUCTURE THAT THE EVALUATIONS SYSTEM FOR OTHERS.
RIGHT. THAT I THINK DO IMPACT STUDENT ACHIEVEMENT BUT IT'S NOT RECOGNIZED BY THE STATE EVALUATION SYSTEM IF THAT MAKES SENSE.
AND I HATE TO TO THAT BECAUSE WE'RE WE'RE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE IMPACT OF OF IT.
AND WHAT COULD WE DO FOR THIS PARTICULAR YEAR IN THAT KIND OF STUFF.
BUT BUT BUT I THINK LONG TERM ALSO THERE IS AN IMPACT HERE THAT THAT I DIDN'T REALIZE WHEN WE WERE GOING THROUGH THIS CONVERSATION LAST YEAR. BUT THE IT'S HIT ME SINCE THEN AND EVEN AS WE MOVED THROUGH COBE IT AND I WAS THINKING ABOUT HOW DO WE GET OUR STUDENTS BACK INTO BUILDING FIVE DAYS A WEEK? AND HOW DO WE GET OUR EMPLOYEES BACK IN THE BUILDING FIVE DAYS A WEEK. RIGHT.
YOU KNOW, BECAUSE WE KNOW IT'S THE BEST FORM OF INSTRUCTION. RIGHT.
SO FOR. FOR THEM, YOU KNOW THIS THIS IS A HEALTH AND SAFETY THING ON THEIR MIND. DO YOU KNOW BUT I THINK I THINK THE THE OTHER ASPECTS OF OF THIS EVALUATION SYSTEM THAT ALSO, YOU KNOW, CREATE A NECESSITY FOR FOR THAT FACE TO FACE INSTRUCTION TO I I THINK THAT THAT STUDENT ACHIEVEMENT I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.
>> AND I HEAR THAT AND I KNOW THE THE DISCONNECT BETWEEN HERE IN FLORIDA AND WITH THE TEACHERS BEING EVALUATED BASED ON STUDENT ACHIEVEMENT AS WELL. BUT I THINK THAT THERE'S GOT TO BE A CONNECTION. I. I THINK IT WOULD BE A HARD SELL TO SAY BEING THERE IS NO ACHIEVEMENT. ACCOUNTABILITY IN YOUR EVALUATION. SO WHAT WE NEED TO TALK ABOUT IS THE WAY THAT MAKES IT THE MOST FAIR, THE MOST HONEST, YOU KNOW, DO WE RIGHT NOW ACHIEVEMENT IS DESCRIBED AS I THINK FOR USING EFFICIENCY RIGHT. PROFICIENCY SEE AS THE NET THAT
PERCENTAGE OF STUDENTS THAT ARE PROFICIENT. >> DO WE NEED TO LOOK AT THE STUDENTS? YOU KNOW, MAKING ADEQUATE PROGRESS? I'M SURE WE HAVE WAYS TO MEASURE WHETHER EVERY STUDENT EVERY STUDENT WHO'S WITH US FOR A YEAR SHOULDN'T BE MAKING AT LEAST A YEAR'S WORTH OF PROGRESS IN ACADEMICS.
[00:40:02]
AND YOU KNOW, IF SOME KIDS START SO FAR BEHIND THAT, THAT'S WHERE OUR DIFFICULTY IS AND CATCHING THEM UP. SO I THINK THAT CONVERSATION HERE HAS TO BE WHAT KIND OF METRICS GIVE US A PICTURE OF WHAT'S GOING ON AND SHOWING GROWTH IN OUR STUDENTS AND ISALSO I GUESS THEIR YOU KNOW, MORE AND MORE FAIR. >> I DON'T KNOW.
I KNOW IT'S PROBABLY GET IT'S NOT EASY TO YOU KNOW, I MEAN THE STATE GIVES US REPORT CARDS RIGHT. AND SO EVERYBODY WHO'S NOT IN EDUCATION AND THOSE PEOPLE IN EDUCATION WHEN THE STATE PUBLISHES OUR REPORT CARDS, THAT'S HOW THE SCHOOL DISTRICT IS IS MEASURED IN THEIR EYES. SO WE CERTAINLY WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE MAKING PROGRESS TOWARDS IMPROVING THOSE OUR SCORES ON THOSE REPORT CARDS. INGRID, YOU'RE ON MUTE.
OH, ARE YOU TALKING? I THOUGHT I SAID I'VE BEEN UNCHARACTERISTICALLY QUIET OVER HERE BECAUSE YOU KNOW, I DON'T UNDERSTAND. I'M STILL FIGURING OUT ALL THESE DIFFERENT EVALUATIONS THAT I COMPARE A LOT OF WHAT I'M DOING RIGHT NOW.
BUT I KNOW YOU LIKE HEALTH CARE. RIGHT.
SO IT'S THE SAME KIND OF QUANDARY. HOW DO YOU EVALUATE A SURGEON? BECAUSE IF THE SURGEONS ONLY OPERATED ON PEOPLE WHO ARE OLD AND SICK, THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE A LOWER SCORE. SO HOW HOW CAN FAIRLY DO THAT? AND PART OF THE PROBLEM IS I'M STILL KIND OF LEARNING LIKE YOU SAID THAT HOW HAVE THESE REPORT CARDS COME OUT? BUT I HAVE TO SAY MY GUT INSTINCT IS NO, I DON'T THINK IT'S FAIR TO EVALUATE THE SUPERINTENDENT BASED ON ACADEMIC ESPECIALLY BECAUSE IN MY MIND THAT'S A SLOWER PROCESS . LIKE IF YOU PUT IN POLICIES THAT AFFECT ACADEMIC ACHIEVEMENT AND THAT TAKES YEARS. SO I DON'T KNOW THAT SOME.
MAYBE SOMETHING MAYBE SOMETHING TO LOOK AT. I DON'T KNOW.
I'M JUST TALKING RIGHT NOW BECAUSE I MEAN I THINK THIS IS SOMETHING WE ALL NEED TO GIVE IT A LOT OF THOUGHT. YOU KNOW, AND KEEP WORKING AT IT AND PLUGGING AWAY AT A BIT.
BUT YOU KNOW, ESPECIALLY SINCE SINCE THE IMPACT OF OF WHATEVER YOU KNOW, RESULTS COME OUT THIS YEAR IS IS GOING TO BE DIFFICULT TO DO ANYTHING WITH YOU KNOW, BUT.
BUT AS I THINK ABOUT THIS RIGHT . YOU KNOW, MAYBE IT'S SOME KEY SYSTEMS AND PROCESSES THAT I SAY, YOU KNOW, LOOK, THIS WE BELIEVE IS SIGNIFICANT AND IN MAKING AND IMPROVEMENT OR AN IMPORTANT COMPONENT IN MAKING AN IMPROVEMENT.
>> RIGHT. AND THEN NOT SAY WE'RE GOING TO WE'RE GOING TO DO THIS, THAT AND THE OTHER AND THEN THE BOARD THE BOARD LOOKS AT IT AND SAYS THE OTHER AGREE.
THOSE ARE THOSE ARE IMPORTANT COMPONENTS TO THE SYSTEM. AND THEN WE LOOK AT, YOU KNOW, THE IMPLEMENTATION OF DID WE GET IT IMPLEMENTED? DID WE, YOU KNOW, OWN WHAT ARE
THESE BEST PRANK LIKE? >> LIKE FOR EXAMPLE, A FORMATIVE ASSESSMENT SYSTEM.
WE DON'T HAVE ONE HERE. RIGHT. BUT I THINK IT'S AN IMPORTANT COMPONENT OF MOVING STUDENT ACHIEVEMENT. RIGHT.
SO SO IF IF WE PUT ONE IN PLACE, IF WE I DON'T KNOW I'M THINKING THOSE ARE THINGS THAT CONTRIBUTE POSITIVE TOWARDS OUTCOMES, THEN WE'RE PUTTING THOSE THINGS IN PLACE.
ARE THEY IN PLACE? IS IS IS IT BEING MONITORED WITH FIDELITY? RIGHT. IS IS IT. IS IT HAPPENING RIGHT.
AND THEN ULTIMATELY, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW. I'M JUST THINKING.
SO YOU KNOW FOR SURE THERE'S ONE THING HERE THAT IS YOU KNOW, IT'S THE AMERICAN A ESSAY WHICH IS I WAS I HAD KIND OF PULLED THIS UP BE SUPERINTENDENTS AND THEY HAVE A WHOLE THING PAPER ON HOW TO EVALUATE A SUPERINTENDENT AND THEN TO GET SAMPLES.
AND THIS ACTUALLY CAME FROM THAT THEY BREAK THE RUBRIC PART CAME FROM THAT AND THE THE.
SO THAT THIS IS FROM THAT AND THIS THIS IS WHAT'S USED IN THE STATE OF MICHIGAN FOR THEIR SUPERINTENDENT. RIGHT. AND SO SAY THEY LIST EIGHT STANDARDS FOR EVALUATING AND SO IS LEADERSHIP AND DISTRICT CULTURE WHICH I THINK WE HAVE POLICY AND GOVERNANCE COMMUNITY AND COMMUNITY COMMUNICATIONS COMMITTEE RELATIONS
[00:45:01]
ORGANIZATIONAL MANAGEMENT. CURRICULUM PLANNING AND DEVELOPMENT.INSTRUCTIONAL MANAGEMENT. AND UNDER THAT IS STUDENT ACHIEVEMENT.
BUT I WONDER IF MAYBE IF WE COME AT IT FROM AN INSTRUCTIONAL MANAGEMENT ASPECT RATHER THAN A YOU KNOW, A NUMBER OF AYP NO SCORE CARD ALONG THOSE LINES WHAT WE HAVE THAT IN THE SOFT DATA PART WE HAVE THE INSTRUCTIONAL LEADERSHIP AND IF YOU LOOK AT THAT METRIC THERE, ALL OF THOSE THINGS THAT YOU JUST MENTIONED ARE INCLUDED.
SO WHY DO WE NEED THEM? WE ADDED THIS VIDEO WE DID BECAUSE THOSE ARE WE.
WE WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT OUR BOARD GOALS WERE ALL ADDRESSED AND WE WANTED YOU KNOW, I THINK THERE WAS A PRETTY GENERAL CONSENSUS ON THE BOARD THAT THERE HAD TO BE SOME SOME HARD DATA THAT THERE HAD TO BE SOMETHING THAT WAS IT WASN'T JUST MY IMPRESSION OF THIS OR YOUR IMPRESSION OF THAT. AND I KNOW FROM LOOKING AT PAST SUPERINTENDENT EVALUATIONS WE WERE TRYING TO COME UP WITH SOMETHING MORE CONCRETE. AND ROBIN, MAYBE YOU CAN TALK ABOUT WHAT WAS HERE. I KNOW THAT JOAN DEARIE CAME AND TALKED TO US IN SHE WAS ON THE SCHOOL BOARD YEARS AGO AND SHE SHOWED US HER A DOCUMENT THAT WAS USED WITH THAT VALERIE
TO CHOOSE DALE. AND IT HAD ME ALL ABOUT THIS. >> YEAH, IT WAS ALL ABOUT THE STUDENT ACHIEVEMENT AND IT HAD 60 OR 70 STUDENT ACHIEVEMENT GOALS AND VERY SPECIFIC.
I'M REALLY DOWN TO NITTY GRITTY THINGS. AND SHE SAID, YOU KNOW, NONE OF THEM WERE ACCOMPLISHED BUT WE ALL LIKED MALLORY SO WE GAVE HER A GOOD EVALUATION.
SO I THINK, YOU KNOW, WE WERE TRYING TO QUANTIFY SOME THINGS LIKE THE BUDGET.
>> IF YOU LOOK AT WHAT WE DID WITH BUDGET, YOU KNOW, WE PUT SOME IT'S EITHER YOU STUCK TO
THE BUDGETARY DIDN'T STICK TO THE BUDGET. >> WE MAINTAIN THE BOND RATING OR WE DID. AND THOSE THINGS REFLECT POLICIES.
RIGHT. SO THAT ONE WAS WAS EASIER TO QUANTIFY.
SO I THINK THEN WHEN WE LIKE TO QUANTIFY THE STUDENT ACHIEVEMENT WE LOOKED AT HOW OUR REPORT CARD WHAT WHAT OUR REPORT WHAT THE STATE REPORT CARD MEASURED AND IT MEASURES STUDENT ACHIEVEMENT MEASURES COLLEGE OR CAREER READY AND OF COURSE THAT ALL YOU KNOW THE GAP ACHIEVEMENT GAP THAT EVERYONE TALKS ABOUT ALL THE TIME.
SO YOU KNOW, ANOTHER WAY TO LOOK AT ACHIEVEMENT COULD BE GROWTH VERSUS YOU KNOW, LEVELS OF PROFICIENCY. DANIEL, WE WE HAVE GROWTH DATA FOR ALL OF OUR STUDENTS, RIGHT? RIGHT. NO. WELL, WE HAVE YOU KNOW, WHEN WE GET TO THE HIGH SCHOOL WE'LL HAVE GROWTH DATA. YEAH.
WE DON'T. IT'S ALL ONE TIME ASSESSMENTS. SO YOU LOSE THE HIGH SCHOOL I'M LISTENING MAINLY BUT I'M HEARING A LOT OF I THINK WE'RE THE WE'RE POLICY WHERE THE SUPERINTENDENT CAN I'M LOOKING AT THIS EVALUATION AS YOU KNOW NOT DR. RODRIGUEZ BUT THE POSITION OF SUPERINTENDENT BECAUSE HOPEFULLY THIS IS ADOPTED AND STAYS FOR A LONG TIME. SO I LOOK AT WHAT DOES THE SUPERINTENDENT BRING IN? THAT IMPACTS STUDENT ACHIEVEMENT THAT WE CAN MEASURE IN MY MIND.
YOU WHEN HE COMES IN IT AS A SELF. HE'S BRINGING EVIDENCE OF HIS PRACTICE AND POLICY. SO YOU KNOW, WITH THE PRINCIPAL EVALUATIONS WITH I KNOW WHAT ONE PORTION SAYS ITS CONVENTION PERFORMANCE MATTERS BRINGS IN ALL GOES TO THE CONTINUOUS IMPROVEMENT OR WHAT IS BROUGHT IN. THAT YOU THROUGH JOHN HATTIE AND MARCIANO'S WORK ARE HIGHLY EFFECTIVE TEACHING STRATEGIES THAT HAVE BEEN IMPLEMENTED THAT WE KNOW IF IMPLEMENTED RESULTS WITH INCREASE USE TO TREATMENT THOSE CAN BE MEASURED AND MONITORED AND REPORTED ON SUCCESSFULLY UNSUCCESSFULLY. I THINK AT THAT POINT YOU KNOW ,IN THIS CASE DR. RODRIGUEZ HAS BEEN EVALUATION. I WOULD SAY, YOU KNOW, WE'RE GOING TO FULLY BRING IN A CONTINUOUS IMPROVEMENT MODEL. WE'RE GOING TO DO X, Y AND Z.
I'M GOING TO HAVE A MODEL OF THIS. THIS MAP THAT GETS INTO THE PRINCIPAL EVALUATION, THERE'S NOW SOME BUY IN AT THE SCHOOL LEVEL THAT SAYS OKAY, SUPERINTENDENTS VALUATIONS US. HE'S GOING TO BE LOOKING TO MY SCHOOL.
I MAY BE LOOKING FOR HIM IN THE CLASSROOM. AND THEN WE HAVE BECAUSE I WAS
[00:50:02]
AROUND WITH DR. TRUJILLO, YOU KNOW, SHE MADE IT VERY EXPLICIT THOSE 70 GOALS APPLIED STRAIGHT TO THE CLASSROOM. SHE TOOK HURDLES AND APPLY THEM TO THE SCHOOL, THE PRINCIPAL, THE CLASSROOM. SO THAT TYPE OF MODEL THAT WORKS.BUT I THINK IF WE HAVE PRACTICES IN PLACE INSTEAD OF JUST A DESIRED OUTCOME AND WE'RE GOING TO BE MORE SUCCESSFUL, THAT'S WHAT WE'RE DOING.
AND THAT'S GOING TO BE ATTAINABLE AND REPEATABLE OVER TIME.
THAT'S NOT GOING TO BE A PERSON. IT'S NOT CAN BE DEPENDED A
PERSON. >> I THINK THAT'S THE PROBLEM RIGHT THERE.
I THINK WE'RE KIND OF REVERSE ENGINEERING THIS. WHAT WE WANT IS WE WANT SOME SORT OF A PERCENTILE OR A NUMBER OR A SCORE AND NOW WE'RE LIKE HOW CAN WE GET THAT? AND WE'RE REVERSE ENGINEERING AS OPPOSED TO ORGANICALLY COMING UP WITH METRICS DIMENSIONS AND THEN SEEING WHERE THAT TAKES US. I THINK THAT'S PART PROBLEM BECAUSE WHAT I DON'T I'M A YOU KNOW, I'M GETTING A DEGREE IN INFORMATICS.
I BELIEVE IN BIG DATA. BUT THE PROBLEM ESPECIALLY WITH BEHAVIOR ON SOCIAL STUFF IS YOU CAN'T JUST COME WITH BIG DATA. SO YOU HAVE DATA LIKE THE DATA HAS TO SIGNIFY SOMETHING.
RIGHT. AND SO THAT'S MY CONCERN WITH SOME OF THIS AND THAT'S MY CONCERN WITH SOME OF THE EDUCATION STUFF, SOME OF THE DATA THAT WE GET WHICH WE BASE POLICIES, YOU KNOW, DON'T MAKE A LOT OF SENSE. THEY IT WAS THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY COMING IN AND SAYING ALL RIGHT, WE'RE GONNA DO THIS. AND LIKE MY DAD WAS A TEACHER USED TO SAY HE'S LIKE PEOPLE AREN'T WIDGETS. RIGHT.
THIS IS HARD TO SORT OF TAKE. SO I THINK WE NEED TO THINK ABOUT HOW WE LOOK IF WE WANT TO MAKE STUDENT ACHIEVEMENT TIED TO SUPERINTENDENT IN SOME WAY IN THEIR POLICIES WHAT ORGANIC METRICS CAN WE COME UP WITH? AS YOU KNOW, I JUST FEEL LIKE WE NEED TO LOOK AT IT DIFFERENTLY. I PRINTED THE DEBORAH ROBERTS LETTER GOOD PART WHEN HE TALKED ABOUT EVALUATION AND HE'S THE ONLY ONE WHO'S RESPONSIBLE. I THINK MAYBE WE NEED TO LOOK AT THE EVALUATION PROCESS AND SEE WE NEED TO CHANGE IT OR DO SOMETHING BECAUSE I MEAN, YOU KNOW, I AGREE WITH WHAT YOU DO IN FLORIDA BECAUSE TEACHERS HAS TO BE HELD RESPONSIBLE AND HERE IN THE STATE OF SOUTH CAROLINA YOU HAVE CLASSROOMS FULL OF TEACHERS THAT ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE AND STICK TO THE FAILING EVERY DAY. AND I THINK WE NEED MAYBE WE NEED TO HAVE A WINDOW TO LOOK INTO THIS AND GIVE US THE LEGAL WHAT LEGAL VISION WE CAN COME UP WITH TO CHANGE YOUR WHAT WAS THE BOARD'S RESPONSE TO THIS INSTRUMENT?
>> DID THEY WERE THEY. WAS THE BOARD SATISFIED? DID THIS OR ARE THERE A LOT OF CONCERNS AND QUESTIONS OR DID WE ACTUALLY HAD NEVER HAD A BEESTON EVALUATION? TIME PERIOD EVERY YEAR? I TELL YOU A LITTLE CHAIN AND GO TO SOMETHING ELSE.
YOU KNOW? SO FINALLY WE CAME OUT WITH THIS AND WE THOUGHT THIS WOULD BE A BETTER THING THAT WE COULD HAVE ON WHAT WE LOOK AT THIS AGAIN.
BECAUSE WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT STUDENT ACHIEVEMENT WE ARE HOLDING TO SUPERINTENDENT 100 PERCENT AND WE'RE NOT HOLDING TEACHERS AND PRINCIPAL. HOW DO YOU KNOW WHEN WHEN PATROLS THAT WAS HERE YOU WILL BRANCH MIDDLE SCHOOL KNOW WHAT SHE DID? GAVIN DIXON AND I CAN REMEMBER HAVEN'T HANDCUFFED WAS A PHYSICAL AND SHE TOLD THEM THAT TWO YEARS TO GET THESE SCHOOL UP THERE AND IN AND AND THAT THOSE THOSE ARE THE TWO BEST SCHOOLS IN THIS COUNTY ELEMENTARY AND MIDDLE SCHOOL BACK THEN.
SO I THINK WE NEED TO LOOK AT THIS AGAIN AND COME UP WITH SOMETHING DIFFERENT.
AND SO I'M SORRY I HAVE TO I HAVE TO STEP OUT BUT I'LL IF I'LL BE BACK.
>> IF YOU GUYS ARE STILL ON OUT, I'LL JUMP BACK IN BED. OK.
APPRECIATE EVERYBODY'S THOUGHT AROUND IT. I DIDN'T WANT.
I DIDN'T MEAN TO. YEAH. YOU KNOW TRY TO BUT I THOUGHT THAT'S AN IMPORTANT PIECE THAT I THINK WE ALL NEED TO CONSIDER WHEN WE THINK ABOUT.
YEAH. AND I THINK THAT THIS REALLY IS GOING TO NEED A BOARD DISCUSSION, YOU KNOW, A FULL BOARD TO TAKE THESE YOU I WOULD SUGGEST THAT WE TAKE THESE TWO COMPONENTS TO THE FULL BOARD AND AND EXAMINE IT AGAIN. AND I CAN TELL INGRID ON THE COMMITTEE THAT CAME UP WITH THIS EVALUATION WAS MYSELF DAVID STRICKLAND JR. AND GEIER WE WERE THE AD RESULTS COMMITTEE AND WE LOOKED AT LOTS DIFFERENT THINGS.
[00:55:02]
WE DID SOME STUDIES AND WE I MEAN WE DID SOME RESEARCH AND WE LOOKED AT LOTS OF THINGS.WE MET WITH DR. RODRIQUEZ, YOU KNOW, AT THE TIME WHEN WE CAME UP WITH THIS.
IF YOU LOOK AT THE METRICS WE HAD, JUST WHAT WE DID IS WE TOOK OUR SCORES IN EACH OF THE ACHIEVEMENT AND THE GAP IN THE COLLEGE OR CAREER READY. DANIEL WORKED WITH US AND WE PUT IT ON A SPREADSHEET AND WE SAID FOR THE FIRST YEAR FOR DR. RODRIGUEZ'S FIRST YEAR WE JUST WANTED TO MAINTAIN EVERYTHING AND MAINTAIN THE SCORES BECAUSE WE RECOGNIZE THAT HE IS GOING TO NEED TIME TO CHANGE THINGS, PUT IN HIS PROCEDURES. AND SO YOU KNOW, THERE WAS A IF THE SCORES WENT UP THEN HE GOT FOUR POINTS. BUT IF THEY MAINTAINED IF THEY STAYED SAYING HE GOT THREE POINTS IN THAT AREA, IT WAS ALL A POINT BASED THING.
BUT WE NEVER GOT TO USE IT. HE WAS THEN COVERED , MILES. WE DIDN'T HAVE THOSE TEST SCORES. SO YOU KNOW, I I WAS JUST BEFORE THIS MEETING I WAS LOOKING AND LIKE OUR ARE WHAT WE HAD FROM BEFORE. I THINK THE BASELINE FOR THE BASELINE THAT WE WERE USING WAS FOR THREE TO FIVE READING WAS FORTY 46 PERCENT.
AND THE BASELINE FOR MATH WAS FIFTY THREE PERCENT IN THE THREE TO FIVE FOUR PROFICIENCY.
AND SO I I LOOKED AT WHERE OUR MAP SAYS WE ARE NOW AND IT'S LIKE 30 PERCENT AND THIRTY FIVE PERCENT. SO I'M LIKE OH NO. SO I THINK I THINK THE OTHER THE OTHER FACTOR IN HERE IS AND THIS IS MY FAULT TOO. BUT I I DIDN'T CONSIDER AT THE TIME BECAUSE I DIDN'T REALIZE THAT DIFFERENT RIGHT. RIGHT.
WHICH IS YOU KNOW, WHICH IS WHAT I BROUGHT THAT THAT YOU KNOW, I'M THE ONLY THE ONLY EMPLOYEE WITH STUDENT ACHIEVEMENT DATA OR METRICS AS AN EDUCATOR, I UNDERSTAND THE IMPORTANCE IS WHERE WE'RE AT. WE'RE ABOUT STUDENT ACHIEVEMENT BUT BUT I'M THE FURTHEST FROM THE TEACHING AND LEARNING IN THE CLASSROOM, YOU KNOW. AND SO I THINK THAT THAT THAT IS A CHALLENGE. AND I DON'T KNOW THAT WE EVER CONSIDERED THAT AS PART OF THE COVERAGE. I KNOW I DIDN'T I I DON'T THINK IT EVER CAME UP AS PART OF BECAUSE I DON'T THINK WE REALIZED THAT THAT THAT THAT SORT OF DISCREPANCY THERE.
BUT ANYWAY, I JUST THANK YOU GUYS REALLY FOR FOR FOR THIS CONVERSATION THIS DISCUSSION BECAUSE I THINK IT'S IT'S OR IT'S RELEVANT AND I APPRECIATE IT'S KIND OF THE WAY YOU'RE ALL THINKING ABOUT IT AND APPROACHING IT AND TALKING ABOUT SO I'M GOING TO JUMP OFF BUT IF I I'LL TRY TO JUMP BACK ON IT. IF YOU'RE ON A CONTINUING RIGHT. WHAT I'M SAYING AS FAR AS IF THE BOY WAS HAPPY THERE'S AN ELEMENT OF LIKE IF THIS MEANT WORK AND PEOPLE WERE SATISFIED WITH IT, MAYBE WE DON'T NEED TO DO TOO TINKERING WITH IT. YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN LIKE AND JUST TAKE THOSE SECTIONS FOR COVERED AND SAY JUST LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE WE'RE MAKING AN EXCEPTION HERE.
BUT WE DON'T HAVE TO REINVENT THE WHEEL BECAUSE THAT'S I JUST DIDN'T KNOW IF WE WERE LOOKING AT THIS BECAUSE THERE WERE A LOT OF CONCERNS WHEN IT WAS ON DISPLAY.
SO THAT WAS IT WAS THESE PARTICULAR AREAS I THINK FOR THE MOST PART PEOPLE WERE HAPPY WITH THE THE RUBRICS FOR THE GOVERNANCE AND BOARD RELATIONS. YOU KNOW, THE COMMUNITY RELATIONS BECAUSE AGAIN EVERYBODY LIKED WHAT HE DID WAS AND CORRECT ME IF I'M WRONG.
ROBIN BUT I THINK IN THE PAST THERE WASN'T REALLY THE BOARD WOULD JUST GATHER WHEN WE CAME SUPERINTENDENT EVALUATION TIME AND THEY'D SIT AROUND A COUPLE OF TIMES THEY HIRED AN ATTORNEY AND THEY'D TALK AND THEN THEY'D COME UP WITH SOME EVALUATION. YOU KNOW, NOT ALL THAT WELL IT WAS A LITTLE BIT MORE NOT QUITE LIKE THAT. BUT IT WAS NOT AS FORMATIVE AS WHAT WAS DONE WITH VALERIE. TRUE. WHAT THEY DID IS THEY EVALUATED THE BOARD HAD MET WITH DR. MOSS WHEN HE FIRST STARTED IN THE BOARD AND ESTABLISH A SET OF GOALS. AND SO THOSE WERE THE GOALS THAT THEY USED TO EVALUATE HIM ON. SO IT DID NOT HAVE NUMBERS TO GO WITH IT BUT THEY SET IT OFF.
OK. SO WHAT WERE THE NUMBERS? WE HAD SEVEN GOALS I BELIEVE THAT HE HAD. DID HE DO THAT? AND THEY YES, USE THE ATTORNEY AND IT WAS NOT QUANTIFY TO SIT THERE AND PUT MEASURABLE NUMBERS LIKE LIKE WHAT YOU HAVE NOW. YEAH. AND I THINK THAT'S WHERE THE
[01:00:01]
YOU KNOW, LIKE I SAID ARE WE HAVE BOUGHT GOALS NOW THAT WERE YOU KNOW, TEACHER RECRUITMENT AND ATTACK AND RETENTION AND STUDENT ACHIEVEMENT STAYING ON BUDGET, CLOSING THE ACHIEVEMENT GAP. THOSE WERE YOU KNOW, OUR OUR BOARD GOALS AND THEN SO THE FIRST PART OF THE INSTRUMENT THE SOFT PART IS THE RUBRIC WHERE YOU TAKE ALL OF THE ATTRIBUTES THAT THE SUPERINTENDENT THAT NASA SAYS ARE THE QUALITIES OF A SUPERINTENDENT AND YOU LIKE UNDER GOVERNANCE AND REGULATIONS, YOU KNOW, POLICY INVOLVEMENT AND THEN YOU READ ACROSS AND YOU GIVE THEM A RATING AND SO EVERYBODY ON THE BOARD WAS ABLE TO GIVE HIM THE RATING AND THEN THOSE WERE COMPILED AND HIS EVALUATION CAME UP WITH THE SCORE. AND THAT WAS ALL THAT WAS INCLUDED THIS YEAR WAS THAT SCORE AND YOU KNOW, I I THINK THAT THERE'S A LOT THINGS THAT HE'S BEING MEASURED ON AND THAT IN THAT RUBRIC. SO IF YOUR QUESTION IS WERE PEOPLE HAPPY WITH IT? I KNOW THE FACT THAT WE DIDN'T HAVE ANY OF THE HARD DATA IN THEIR YOU KNOW, THE THINGS THATTHEY WOULD CALL MEASURABLE. >> I THINK MOST PEOPLE RECOGNIZE THAT WE WE COULDN'T DO THAT. AND I THINK THEY WERE SATISFIED WITH IT.
ROBIN, YOU WHAT DID YOU HEAR? I DIDN'T WASN'T ABOUT IT AND I I THOUGHT THEY WERE VERY SATISFIED WITH IT. YOU KNOW, MAYBE ONE OR TWO WEREN'T.
BUT OVERALL I THINK THE BOOK BECAUSE YOU TOOK THE SUBJECTIVE LIST OUT OF YEAH.
>> IT WAS A LITTLE LESS YOU KNOW THE RUBRIC MAKES IT A LITTLE BIT LESS SUBJECTIVE.
SO THE SOFT PART IS LESS IS LESS SUBJECTIVE BUT NOT QUANTITATIVE.
>> AND THEN WE ADDED I THINK THE QUANTITATIVE PART. YES.
YEAH. SO OUR QUESTION IS, YOU KNOW, IS THERE ROOM FOR A QUANTITATIVE PART? AND MAYBE THAT'S WHERE WE NEED TO HAVE THAT DISCUSSION.
AND IN OUR WE MEASURING I THINK YOU KNOW, JUST BASED ON OUR DISCUSSION TODAY TEACHER RECRUITMENT AND RETENTION, THE THINGS WE WROTE DOWN HERE AS WHAT WE WERE GONNA MEASURE MAY NOT BE THE BEST THINGS TO MEASURE. SO YEAH.
SO MAYBE I'M NOT. I'M JUST NOT A BIG FAN. I MEAN THIS IS JUST ME PERSONALLY AND I'M DUE AND I'M NOT I'M STILL FIGURING OUT I'M NOT ADVOCATING FOR A POSITION.
IT'S NOT A BIG FAN OF TRYING TO COME UP WITH A WAY TO PUT NUMBERS ON THINGS THAT DON'T MAKE SENSE. YOU KNOW, I MEAN THAT DON'T LIKE YOU SAID I MEAN IS TEACHER RETENTION. SO IN OTHER WORDS LIKE IN HEALTH CARE, IF YOU SAY OK, THE GOAL IS THAT YOU DON'T HAVE ANY COMPLICATIONS. RIGHT.
LIKE THAT'S HOW THEY MEASURE SOME STUFF. WELL THEN YOU'RE GONNA YOU'RE GONNA YOU'RE TO TWEAK THE NUMBERS. YOU CAN ALWAYS SELECT PATIENTS YOU THINK ARE LOW RISK FOR COMPLICATIONS THAT'S OCCURRING IN HEALTH CARE.
YOU KNOW, IN SOME WAYS IS THAT HIGHER RISK PATIENTS THEN TO BUY LESS LIKE THAT.
SO MY POINT BEING IS THAT IF WE GIVE LIKES OK FOR TEACHER RETENTION IS HOW WE'RE EVALUATING YOU THAT MIGHT END UP WITH US RETAINING TEACHERS THAT ARE NOT DESIRE TO YOU KNOW I MEAN LIKE HE TALKED ABOUT SOMETIMES YOU DON'T WANT TO RETAIN A TEACHER FOR.
SO YEAH. I THINK THERE ARE SOME. OK, LET'S TAKE LET'S TAKE THE NUMBER OF SUBSTITUTE DAYS YOU KNOW SO WE ALL KNOW THAT IN DR. ED BECAUSE SAID THIS THAT SUBSTITUTE TWO DAYS ARE NOT BENEFICIAL TO THE STUDENTS AS ONE OF THE TEACHERS THEY'RE AND I CAN TELL YOU FROM BEING A PRINCIPAL AND THREE DIFFERENT STATES THAT MONDAYS AND FRIDAYS ARE THE WORST DAYS OF THE WEEK EVERY WEEK PARTICULARLY IN THE SPRING.
AND WE HAVE SHORTAGES ARE SUBSTITUTES. AND MY YOU KNOW, I HATE TO WALK INTO MY OFFICE ON A FRIDAY MORNING AND GET MY LIST OF CLASSES THAT WE'RE NOT COVERED . NOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING IN ELEMENTARY SCHOOL, YOU DON'T HAVE TEACHERS YOU CAN PULL TO COVER THOSE. SO WHAT DO YOU DO TO ENSURE THE INSTRUCTION OF THOSE STUDENTS? SO TAKE THAT AND SAY OK, HOW CAN THE BOARD HELP WITH THIS OR WHAT KIND OF POLICY COULD HELP WITH THIS? AND SO MAYBE THERE'S A POLICY LIKE YOU KNOW WHAT, YOU DON'T MISS ANY FRIDAYS IN SPRING OR SOMETHING LIKE THIS.
YOU KNOW FROM THIS TIME HERE YOU TO THIS TIME PERIOD YOU GET I DON'T KNOW SOMETHING LIKE,
[01:05:06]
YOU KNOW, THINK OUT OF THE BOX IN TERMS OF , YOU KNOW, ENCOURAGING AND I KNOW THAT I PERSONALLY PUT A LOT OF PRESSURE ON MY TEACHERS TO BE THERE ON MONDAYS AND FRIDAYS AND WHEN THEY COULDN'T BE THERE THEY WERE OFTEN THEY WOULD APPROACH ME AND SAY I JUST HAVETO LET YOU KNOW I'D LIKE OK, OK. >> THOSE TYPES OF THINGS, YOU KNOW, AS WE ALL KNOW WHAT WHAT ? SO WHAT CAN YOU KNOW WHAT CAN THE SYSTEM DO TO SUPPORT THOSE ? YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE THINGS PEOPLE ALWAYS SAY ESPECIALLY WELL I WAS GOING TO SAY ELEMENTARY TEACHERS BUT ANY YOUNG TEACHER, THEIR KID GETS SICK. GUESS WHAT? THEY'RE NOT COME TO SCHOOL. I USED TO TALK YOU KNOW, ALL MY TEACHERS SAY WELL YOUR HUSBAND CAN'T YOU SHARE THIS RESPONSIBILITY BETWEEN YOUR HUSBAND WHO STAYS HOME WITH THE WHY DO YOU ALWAYS HAVE TO BE THE ONE TO STAY HOME? SO YOU KNOW, THE WHOLE IDEA OF , YOU KNOW, SUBSIDIZED CHILD CARE OR SOMETHING SOME I DON'T KNOW BUT ALL THOSE TYPES
OF THINGS TO INCREASE TEACHER ATTENDANCE. >> RIGHT.
THAT'S A LOT. HOW DO YOU QUANTIFY THAT AND HOW DO YOU SUPPORT TEACHERS SO THAT THEY CAN BE THERE ALL THE TIME AND YOU KNOW, I'M SURE OUR SCHOOLS PROBABLY LIMIT THE NUMBER OF PERSONAL DAYS THAT A BUILDING CAN HAVE ON A FRIDAY OR A MONDAY.
>> I MEAN WE USED TO POLICIES LIKE THAT BECAUSE PERSONAL DAYS HAVE TO BE PRE-APPROVED AND WE PROBABLY HAVE POLICIES LIKE THAT SO THAT THE T THE SCHOOLS AREN'T THAT EVERYONE ISN'T TAKING A PERSONAL DAY ON A FRIDAY. RIGHT.
YEAH IT'S THE SAME THING IS GOING ON HEALTH CARE, YOU KNOW. >> HOW DO YOU MAKE CUT AS YOU HAVE A SURGEON RESPONSIBLE FOR WHETHER OR NOT A PATIENT COMPLIES WITH THE MEDICATION? RIGHT. WHAT OTHER POLICIES? BUT THEY DO.
THEY TRY TO THEY THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE DOING IN HEALTH CARE AS THEY TRY TO QUANTIFY THAT AND THEN THEY TIE THAT TO REIMBURSEMENT. RIGHT.
AND IT'S PROBLEMATIC. SO I'M A LITTLE SENSITIVE BUT I JUST I THINK, YOU KNOW, TRYING TO QUANTIFY THIS STUFF IF THE QUANTIFICATION MAKES SENSE. BUT I THINK IT'S GREAT IF WE'RE JUST TRYING TO PUT A NUMBER ON SOMETHING TO SAY WE HAVE A NUMBER AND YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW THAT. SO I THINK THAT THAT THE QUANTITATIVE PARTS PROBLEMATIC . BUT I THINK IT'S I'M NOT COMPLAIN ABOUT THE INSTRUMENT.
I DON'T REALLY YOU KNOW, I'M NEW SO I DON'T UNDERSTAND THE WHOLE PICTURE.
>> WELL, WE HAVEN'T. LIKE I SAID, WE HAVEN'T WE HAVEN'T BEEN ABLE TO USE THE INSTRUMENT WITH THE QUANTITY QUANTITATIVE PARTS TO SEE THAT .
AND THAT WAS OUR THOUGHT WHEN WE CAME UP WITH IT WE SAID YOU KNOW WHAT? THE FIRST YEAR IS WE HOLD HARMLESS IN TERMS OF DR. RODRIGUEZ IF EVERYTHING STAYS THE SAME. IT'S IT'S EFFECTIVE. YOU KNOW IT'S NOT THERE IS NO NO NEGATIVE AGAINST HIM. RIGHT. SO THAT.
AND THEN WE SEE THAT ONCE WE HAVE SOME EXPERIENCE WITH IT WE CAN GO BACK AND TWEAK IT.
BUT WE HAVEN'T HAD THE EXPERIENCE AND NOW WE'RE BACK TO WHERE WE STARTED THE MEETING. AND SO I DO THINK THAT THE FIRST THING WE DO IS DECIDE IF WE WANT TO APPLY THE QUANTITATIVE PART FOR THIS CYCLE AGAIN.
YEAH. AND I KNOW THAT THAT THE BOARD VOTED THE LAST TIME THAT THE COMMITTEE PRESENTED SOMETHING. BUT WHAT WAS PRESENTED TO THE BOARD WAS THAT WE WOULD USE THE METRICS WHEN WE DESIGNED THE METRICS THE FIRST YEAR EVERYTHING THE PERCENTAGES TO GET HIGHLY EFFECTIVE OR EFFECTIVE ALL THAT STAYED THE SAME.
THE SECOND YEAR THINGS HAD TO INCREASE. I DON'T KNOW DANIEL MAYBE I'M NOT EXPLAINING IT WELL BECAUSE I SO AND SO WHAT WE DECIDED LAST YEAR WAS WE.
YEAH THAT'S THE THAT'S THE PICTURE 3. GO AHEAD.
I THINK THE THE THE AD HOC COMMITTEE I THINK THE BOARD AGREED AS WELL.
THE FAMOUS BERET YOU PUT IT YOU KNOW IS THIS A TRUE RELIABLE MODEL? I DIDN'T. WE DON'T KNOW BECAUSE THE TEST OF TIME WE DIDN'T KNOW.
SO IT WAS ALSO AGREED UPON THE FIRST YEAR IN YOUR HOLD HARMLESS AND WE WOULD REVIEW THE FIRST YEAR OF THE METRIC WHAT ACTUALLY WHAT ACTUALLY CAME ABOUT METRIC AND REVISIT.
SO JUST ON THE STUDENT ACHIEVEMENT YOU'RE LOOKING AT NOW WE THROUGH SOME OF THE KIND
[01:10:02]
OF A TIERED IMPROVEMENT AND AS AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT WE COULD DO MATHEMATICALLY BECAUSE IT'S CHEAP EASY ONE WE CAN DO NUMBERS ON BUT AS YOU SEE WE AIM TO MAKE IT TO THE 19 20.THERE'S NOT ONE PIECE OF THOSE FIVE TABS OF STUDENT ACHIEVEMENT THAT WE COULD REPORT ON. SO I AGREE. I LIKE THAT YOU BRING IN THE MEDICAL FIELD. I'VE ALWAYS FELT THAT EDUCATION AND THE MEDICAL INDUSTRY ARE SOMEWHAT SIMILAR BECAUSE WE CAN MEASURE AND SAY WHATEVER WE WANT IN LIFE.
YOU KIND OF MENTIONED THERE'S UNINTENDED CONSEQUENCES ALL OF IT.
YOU KNOW, IF WE WANT TO SAY WE WANT TO FAIL LESS STUDENTS BUT WE CAN CHANGE THE PROCESS OUR TEACHING AND TRULY HAVE MORE STUDENT LEARNING OR WE CAN JUST GIVE MORE STUDENTS D.
RIGHT. SO THERE'S THERE'S TWO ANSWERS TO EVERY PROBLEM.
MUCH LIKE THE ACHIEVEMENT GAP I CAN EITHER RIGHT EITHER ELEVATE THE STUDENTS THAT ARE STRUGGLING WALK INTO PLAY THE STUDENTS THAT ARE THAT ARE HIGH ACHIEVING BOTH OF WHICH ACCOMPLISH CLOSURE OF ACHIEVEMENT GAP. SO THERE'S ALWAYS THAT DICHOTOMY OF ALL OF THESE METRICS. THERE'S TWO WAYS TO ACCOMPLISH THEM. SO I KIND OF LIKE THE THOUGHT DO WE GET TO A MORE OF A PROCEDURAL PROCESS POLICY AND THEN THAT POLICY. THE INTENT OF THE POLICY IS TO RESULT IN WHAT WE WERE LOOKING FOR. IF IT DOES, DOES IT IT DOESN'T.
IT DOESN'T WE'LL GO BACK AND DO IT BUT WE CAN'T START WITH. WE WANT TO CLOSE THE ACHIEVEMENT GAP BY FIVE POINTS BY 2020 WITH NO POLICY, NO PROCEDURE, NO PRACTICE IN PLACE TO DO IT. WE NEED TO PRACTICE IN PLACE. WE THE MEASUREMENT ON THE PRACTICE ON THE IMPLEMENTATION TO GET THE DESIRED OUTCOME. YEAH, I THINK IT'S HARDER.
IT'S A WHOLE IF WE COULD REALLY EASILY CHANGE THIS. YOU KNOW THE STUDENTS EVEN WON JUST A LITTLE BIT TWEAK IT. WE WOULD HAVE NO DATA FROM LAST YEAR THIS YEAR TO SHOW AN IMPROVEMENT. I DON'T KNOW THAT ALL THOSE ASSESSMENTS WILL BE GIVEN THIS YEAR OR NOT YET BUT WE MIGHT BUT THEN WE GO. WHAT'S A TRUE BENCHMARK? IT IS THE COLLEGE YEAR A BENCHMARK? PROBABLY NOT.
IS NEXT YEAR A BENCHMARK? MAYBE. DO WE WAIT THREE YEARS NOW FOR A BENCHMARK THAT'S TOO FAR AWAY ? SO I THINK, YOU KNOW, IF WE GET MORE TO A PROCESS AND MEASURE THE PROCESS, WE CAN START THAT NOW.
SO WHAT WOULD THAT LOOK LIKE? AND DANIEL, WHAT WOULD YOU SAY WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT A PROCESS MODEL SO YOU KNOW THAT'S YOU. THAT'S DR. RODRIGUEZ. BUT YOU KNOW, I KNOW FROM WHAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT WITH THE IMPLEMENTATION AND KIND OF THE BRINGING ONBOARD OF PERFORMANCE MATTERS AND HOW THAT FITS IN. IT'S NOT JUST A PROGRAM BUT IT'S GETTING INTO CONTINUAL IMPROVEMENTS MOVEMENT OF YES, WE HAVE TEACHING YES. WE'RE HAVE FORMATIVE ASSESSMENTS ALIGNED TO OUR STANDARDS AND OUR GOAL TO GIVE THOSE COMMON BENCHMARK POINTS THAT WE CAN ANALYZE. WE CAN BREAK DOWN TO ALL THE LEVELS THAT WE NEED TO AND WE CAN IMMEDIATELY PINPOINT AREAS OF STRENGTH, WEAKNESS OR REVISITING GO BACK, REPLAN, RETEACH ALL OVER AGAIN, ALL OVER AGAIN CONSISTENTLY WITH THAT COMES A COMMON PROFESSIONAL LEARNING COMMUNITY PROCEDURES. WE EXPECT X, Y AND Z TO HAPPEN ALSO. WE EXPECT THEM TO HAPPEN FREQUENTLY FOR THAT TO CONSTANTLY OCCUR. HADI SAYS, YOU KNOW, CONSTANT FEEDBACK, YOU KNOW, AUTHENTIC GRADES ARE HIGHLY IMPACTFUL FOR STUDENT ACHIEVEMENT. SO THOSE TYPES OF THINGS BEING IMPLEMENTED WE KNOW THE WILL RESULT IN HIGHER ACHIEVEMENT. SO IT PUTS MATTERS IN SORT OF A SECURE PROCESS. AND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING THEY'RE VERY PROCESS FOCUSED AND LESS METRIC FOCUSED. NICE TO SEE HOW THAT THING WORKS.
KATHY, I THINK YOU KNOW THAT MAYBE SOME BENEFIT. I THINK I READ BECAUSE SAID YOU WANTED TO SHOW IT TO US. YEAH. YEAH, WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THAT.
IT'S IN A PLACE NOW THAT I THINK WILL COME TO THE WORK SESSION.
IT'S DEFINITELY THE PLACE THAT SHOWS WHERE IT'S THAT'S WHERE IT'S A PIECE OF THE PIE AS IT RELATES TO THE MODEL. RIGHT NOW IT'S BEING POPULATED BY OUR STATE ASSESSMENTS THAT WE HAVE AGAIN 18 19 WAS THE LAST IT'S GOING TO BE UPDATED MAP INFORMATION IN IT IT'S GOT GRADES, DISCIPLINE, ATTENDANCE, A LOT OF STUDENT DEMOGRAPHIC WHERE WE'RE CURRENTLY KIND OF FINISHING UP AND TESTING THE EARLY WARNING SYSTEM COMPONENTS YOU NO STUDENT ASSESSMENT AS FAR AS BENCHMARKING HAS BEEN DONE YET. SO THAT PIECE IS THE POWER OF THE MODEL WHERE EVERYTHING ELSE AS THE ANALYTICS AND THE ACTUAL DESEGREGATION OF THE
DATA. >> WELL OKAY. OKAY I I'M GOING TO PLAY A LITTLE BIT OF THAT THE NAYSAYER HERE AND IT'S BECAUSE OF MY EXPERIENCE IN SCHOOLS I HAVE WORKED IN DISTRICTS WHERE WE HAVE THE BENCHMARKS, WE HAVE CURRICULAR MAPS, EVERYBODY
[01:15:02]
TEACHERS, EVERYBODY DOES THE RETEACH LOOP EVERYBODY AND THE. >> GUESS WHAT? IF YOU DON'T MONITOR IT THEN IT DOESN'T WORK. AND SO YOU KNOW, MY LAST SCHOOL DISTRICT THERE WERE FOUR ELEMENTARY SCHOOLS IN IT THAT FOUR ELEMENTARY SCHOOLS AND ONE AND A HALF OF US DID ALL THE MONETARY THAT WAS REQUIRED AND HAD BIG TROUBLE WITH THE UNION BECAUSE WE WERE ALWAYS DOING THE MONITORING THAT WAS REQUIRED AND THE TEACHERS DIDN'T LIKE IT. NOW WE DON'T HAVE THAT HERE. BUT THE IT'S ALL YOU KNOW, THE HOPE AND ALL OF THIS HAS BEEN AROUND EDUCATION FOR YEARS THAT WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THIS.
SO THE CRITICAL PIECE TO ME IS WE'VE GOT TO HAVE WE'VE GOT TO BE MEASURING THE MONITORING AND WE HAVE TO KNOW THAT IT'S ACTUALLY TAKING PLACE. AND YOU KNOW, IF IT GETS MONITORED YOU'RE YOU'RE GONNA GET RESULTS AND SO THEN THAT WILL BE THAT.
>> BUT IT'S KIND OF A LEAP OF FAITH TO SAY WE'RE GOING TO PUT IN ALL THESE PROCESSES.
BUT IF THERE'S NO CONSISTENCY WITH THE PROCESSES, THEN IT DIDN'T GET US ANYWHERE.
THAT'S MY ONLY BECAUSE WE CAN WHEN YOU START A PROCESS WE CAN CHECK IT OFF AND SAY YEP, WE STARTED THAT YEP WE HAVE P L C'S AT ALL OF OUR BUILDINGS. YES.
BUT ARE THEY AFFECTING INSTRUCTION IN THE BOTTOM LINE AND HOW WE'RE REALLY AFFECTING THIS INSTRUCTION IS THROUGH THESE END OF YOUR TESTS ARE THESE.
SO THAT'S THAT'S MY ONLY CONCERN ABOUT THAT AND I'M A LITTLE LIES SO I DON'T THINK TO
ME THAT SOUND LIKE DEVIL'S ADVOCATE OR NAYSAYER. >> YOU KNOW, YOU TAKE NOTES THAT POINT SOUNDS LIKE SOUNDS LIKE DANIEL YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT SIMILAR THINGS.
WE'RE JUST TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW TO MONITOR THE MONITORING. THAT'S THAT'S THE CRITICAL POINT. HOW DO YOU MONITOR THE MONITOR ?
>> THAT'S WHERE WE GET INTO. WHY WOULD BE PART THOSE SUPERINTENDENTS EVALUATION YOU KNOW HOW HE MAPS TO THE MONITORING AND HAS TO SHARE THE MONITOR AND HE HAS TO ENSURE
THE FIDELITY. >> HE HAS TO ENSURE THAT ALL SITES ARE DOING IT AS EXPECTED.
WHICH HE HAS A HUNDRED PERCENT PURVIEW OVER. AND I THINK YOU KNOW, DR.
RODRIGUEZ WAS POINT KIND OF EARLY ON WAS HE HAS A LOT OF CONTROL OVER THINGS.
BUT THE THING THAT HE HAS THE LEAST CONTROL OVER ARE THE TEACHING TO THE TEST RESULTS COMING FROM THE CLASSROOM. RIGHT. AND SO HIS WAY TO CONNECT TO HAVE INSULIN OVER THE TEST RESULTS COMING FROM THE CLASSROOM ARE THROUGH ENSURING FIDELITY TO THESE STRATEGY'S THAT HE'S PUTTING IN PLACE AND THAT'S WHERE HE'S COMING FROM.
YES. YEAH. SO SO I THINK THAT THE THE PROCESS THAT DONE AND I THINK WE WOULD STILL BE ABLE TO MONITOR THAT.
I STILL DON'T I DON'T FORESEE ME NOT PRESENTING TO YOU GUYS EVERY TIME THERE'S A STATE ASSESSMENT OR A MATH ASSESSMENT OR ANY OTHER FORMATIVE ASSESSMENTS TO SHOW THAT OVER TIME WE WE'LL SEE QUICKLY IF IT'S WORKING OR NOT. AND THEN I KNOW HE HAS A SELF EVALUATION PART AS WELL WHERE HE WOULD BRING DOCUMENTATION. AND THEN ANOTHER PIECE YOU AS I SIT HERE THINKING MORE AND MORE OF A MORE ABOUT THIS ALL OF THESE INDICATORS MINUS THE MATH ASSESSMENT ARE LAGGING. YOU KNOW YOU'RE NOT GOING TO GET THEM UNTIL AUGUST SEPTEMBER WHICH I KNOW THAT'S KIND OF THE TIMELINE. BUT WE STARTED ANOTHER SCHOOL YEAR BY THE TIME WE'RE DOING THE SUPERINTENDENT'S EVALUATION AGAIN WHERE WE CAN BE MORE PROACTIVE POTENTIALLY FOR MONITORING IMPLEMENTATION POLICIES, PRACTICES, PROCEDURES THAT CAN BE DONE REAL TIME ON THE FLY AND DOESN'T RESULT DOES HAVE TO BE A LAGGING INDICATOR . SO IT SOUNDS. SO I HAD A GREAT NOSE.
IS IT REALLY TO ME? AND TELL ME WHERE I'M WRONG BECAUSE YOU KNOW, LIKE I SAID, I'M JUST STILL FIGURING THIS OUT. THE FIRST PART THE SOFT PART EVALUATION WE'RE SATISFIED WITH AND WE'LL WORK WELL. SO THAT WE CAN JUST KIND OF SET ASIDE AND THEN THE QUESTION AND WE GET THIS QUANTITATIVE PART. YOU KNOW, WHAT CAN WE DO? AND THEN I THINK IF WE'RE NOT GOING TO DO IT THIS YEAR AGAIN BECAUSE OF KOBUS, THEN THAT GIVES US A LOT OF TIME TO REALLY LOOK AND SEE HOW THIS PERFORMANCE MATTERS PIECE FITS
IN AND HOW WE WANT TO EVALUATE THAT. >> WELL, MY SUGGESTION MIGHT BE
[01:20:04]
TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE FACT THAT WE'VE GOT THIS COVERED AND THAT WE'RE NOT GOING TO USE THAT, YOU KNOW, SAY OK, WE'RE NOT GOING TO USE THE THE STUDENT ACHIEVEMENT DATA AS WE HAVE BEFORE. BUT ASK DR. RODRIGUEZ TO IDENTIFY ONE OR TWO PROCESSES THAT HE'S GOING TO IMPLEMENT AND WE PUT THOSE IN, YOU KNOW, AND THEN ADD THAT TO IT.AND SAY YES FROM THIS TIME, YOU KNOW, FOR THE REST, YOU KNOW FOR YOU KNOW, IT WOULD DEPEND ON WHEN WE GOT THIS DONE BUT SAVE FROM YOU KNOW, MAY I GUESS THE SCHOOL YEAR IS ALMOST GONE.
>> THAT'S THE PROBLEM. BUT MATE, BY THE TIME SOMETHING LIKE THIS WOULD COME IN PLACE BECAUSE EVALUATIONS DONE IN DECEMBER RIGHT. ROBIN IS THAT WHEN HIS CONTRACT REQUIRES IT TO BE DONE WE THINK WE DID IT IN OCTOBER . DID WE DO IT OVER OKAY?
YES, RIGHT. >> SO WE'RE BASICALLY WE'RE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT IS THERE A WAY TO QUANTIFY THE PROCESS? YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A GOAL AND THEN WE WANT TO KNOW WHAT PROCESS IS HE'S DEVELOPED AND THEN WE WANT TO KNOW HOW HE'S IMPLEMENTED THEM AND THEN WE WANT TO KNOW HOW EFFECTIVE ALL THAT IS. RIGHT.
THAT'S KIND OF WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT. SO WHAT DATA CAN WE USE TO QUANTIFY THAT? AND IT MAY BE THAT THE STUDENT HUMAN THAT IS OUR BEST ANSWER BUT I THINK IT'S WORTH LOOKING AT ESPECIALLY PERFORMANCE MATTERS AND WITH DANIEL'S HELP AND EVERYBODY ELSE'S INPUT, IS THERE ANOTHER ARE THERE OTHER DATA POINTS OR DATA METRICS WE CAN USE TO EVALUATE THAT PROCESS? RIGHT.
EARL, DO YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO SAY? >> NO.
I'M STILL THINKING ABOUT THIS WHOLE VIRUS SHOULD NO LONGER BE .
I THINK WE NEED TO LOOK AT IT AGAIN. YOU KNOW, I JUST HAVE I HAVE COME THIS HAS CAUSED SOME CONCERN ME BECAUSE OF WHAT DR. ROBERT SAID ABOUT HE'S RESPONSIBLE FOR. AND I THINK WE HAVE MORE NEED TO DISCUSS THAN YEAH.
SO I'M WONDERING I THINK THAT EARL, YOU JUST MADE A GOOD POINT.
WE USE THIS EVALUATION ONE TIME NOW THE PARTS THAT WE'RE ABLE TO PERHAPS WE SHOULD GO BACK TO THE WHOLE BOARD AND SAY OK, WHY DID YOU THINK ABOUT THIS PART? THEN BECAUSE THAT WAS OUR ORIGINAL PLAN. WE WERE GOING TO USE IT ONCE AND THEN.
RIGHT. AND EVEN THOUGH WE COULDN'T USE THE ONE PART AND KIND OF HAVE THE WHOLE BOARD IN ON A DISCUSSION LIKE THIS TO SEE WHERE PEOPLE STAND AND TO HEAR RATHER THAN OUR COMMITTEE TRYING TO MAKE THOSE RECOMMENDATIONS AND AND JUST HAVE A SPECIAL HATE TO SAY THIS IS GREAT BUT MAYBE A SPECIAL STUDY.
YEAH JUST GEARED TOWARD THIS. >> YES, THAT'S TRUE. >> WELL I MEAN WE DO THAT.
CAN I MAKE A RECOMMEND A THOUGHT? IT'S NOT I'M NOT IN A POSITION TO MAKE A RECOMMENDATION BUT I HAVE A SUGGESTION TO CONSIDER. MAYBE WE COULD DO A LITTLE MORE WORK IN THE COMMITTEE AND COME UP. WE COULD AT LEAST NARROW THE SCOPE AND COME UP WITH SOME RECOMMENDATIONS BECAUSE WHAT I HATE TO DO IS DO WORK HERE IN THE COMMITTEE AND GET EARL'S INPUT AND DANIEL AND ROBIN AND FRANK'S INPUT AND THEN TURN AROUND AND TAKE IT AND START FROM SCRATCH ON THE BOARD AND REDO, YOU KNOW, WHEN YOU GET 11 PEOPLE. IS THERE A WAY THAT MAYBE WE CAN HAVE A COUPLE OF MEETINGS THIS SPRING? RIGHT. AND JUST SORT OF TALK ABOUT THE SCOPE, DEFINE SOME TERMS, LOOK AT PERFORMANCE MATTER, SEE WHAT THAT OFFERS AND THEN HAVE A SPECIAL SESSION WITH THE BOARD . BUT WHERE WE DON'T KNOW NOT PRESENT SOMETHING BUT WE SAY HERE THE PARAMETERS WE WANT THE BOARD TO LOOK AT.
SIR, I MEAN THAT'S SO THEN WHAT YOU'RE SUGGESTING IS THAT PERHAPS WE HAVE A PRESENTATION AND PERFORMANCE MATTERS JUST TO THIS COMMITTEE FIRST BEFORE IT GOES TO THE WHOLE BOARD.
>> I DON'T BECAUSE I THINK THERE'S OTHER ASPECTS PERFORMANCE MATTERS THAT WE HOPE. I THINK THE WHOLE BOARD CAN SEE PERFORMANCE MATTERS.
MY THING IS MAYBE WE HAVE TWO OR THREE MEETINGS WHERE WE REALLY KIND OF LOOK AT A LOT.
LIKE YOU SAID LIKE YOU DID LAST TIME. RIGHT.
YOU'VE REVIEWED A BUNCH OF DIFFERENT THINGS. THE THREE OF US AND KIND OF NARROW DOWN AND THEN SAY HERE'S WHAT WE'VE LOOKED AT AND NOW WE WANT TO GET YOUR INPUT BECAUSE WHAT I SENSE HAPPENING A LITTLE BIT IS IF WE DO SOME WORK AND THEN WE GET THE FULL BOARD WITH NO RECOMMENDATIONS, IT STARTS AT GROUND ZERO. YEAH.
AND IT'S NOT AS AN EFFECTIVE USE OF YOUR TIME BUT I DON'T KNOW THAT TO BE TRUE.
IT'S JUST MY SUGGESTION THAT'S FINE. SO I WONDER WHAT WHAT SPECIFIC
[01:25:03]
BASED ON THIS CONVERSATION WHAT SPECIFIC SPECIFIC TYPE OF INFORMATION SHOULD WE SEARCH FOR PROCESS PROCEDURAL SUPERINTENDENT EVALUATIONS? I MEAN WHAT SOMETHING LIKE THAT WHAT COULD WE GO OUT TO LOOK FOR TO BRING BACK TO THE TABLE ?>> SO I THINK. YEAH. GO AHEAD.
GO AHEAD. NO GO AHEAD. I FEEL LIKE YOU'LL DO BETTER THAN ME. I DON'T KNOW. I WAS JUST GOING TO KIND OF WAITED A LITTLE BIT. SO YEAH I THINK I THINK YOU'RE RIGHT ABOUT THAT.
I'VE BEEN DIGGING A LOT WHEN I'VE JOY EVALUATION INTO HATTIE'S WORK BECAUSE IF WE'RE GONNA FOCUS ON SOMETHING AND THEN TIE A PROCEDURE OR A PROCESS AROUND SOMETHING, IT NEEDS TO BE A HIGHLY EFFECTIVE NEEDS TO BE RESEARCHED TO THE THE EXTREME THAT SHOWS THAT IT ISN'T PROVEN IT HAS PROVEN TRACK RECORD OF IMPROVING STUDENT ACHIEVEMENT WHETHER OR NOT I PERSONALLY BELIEVE IN IT OR NOT, THE RESEARCH AND THE DATA WINS.
SO YOU KNOW, IF IT SAYS THAT AUTHENTIC FEEDBACK AND PRACTICE ARE TOO HIGHLY EFFECTIVE COMPONENTS OF STUDENT ACHIEVEMENT THEN THOSE TWO THINGS NEED TO BE BROUGHT IN.
YEAH. YOU KNOW ANOTHER THING OUT OF THE WORK IS THIS PARSING AS IT IS YOU KNOW, INCENTIVE PAY DOES NOT LEAD TO HIGHER TEST SCORES.
YOU KNOW, IF YOU ASK A TEACHER THAT YOU KNOW THEY'D SAY PAY ME MORE OF A BETTER SCORE.
WELL, IT'S YOU KNOW, IT'S ACTUALLY NEGATIVE INDICATOR. SO I THINK IF WE RELY ON THE RESEARCH WE RELY ON YOU KNOW, WE'RE DR. RODERICK IT COMES FROM I KNOW HE HAD THE MODEL IN PLACE IN FLORIDA. YOU KNOW, HE PROBABLY ALREADY HAS PROCEDURES AND PROCESSES AND THOUGHTS IN PLACE. SO I THINK HE'S GOING TO HE WANTS TO SHARE THE WORK SESSION. FILING A LITTLE BITS AND PIECES OF IT AS A KIND OF FALLS INTO MY WORLD. BUT I THINK YOU KNOW, MAYBE LET'S SEE WHAT HAPPENS ON THAT.
I THINK 19 WITH THAT PRESENTATION WE CAN ALL FALL OUT.
I'LL BE THERE TO BE PART OF THE THE PERFORMANCE MATTERS COMPONENT.
BUT KIND OF SEE HOW THE OTHER BOARD MEMBERS REACT TO THAT. WE MIGHT GET A PRETTY GOOD IDEA ON THE MARCHING ORDERS FROM THAT POINT JUST AS KIND OF READ AND HEAR THE QUESTIONS AND THE CONVERSATION AROUND THE OVERALL MODEL. THAT WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO MAYBE START THINKING ABOUT HOW WE COULD MEASURE THAT KIND OF AFTER THAT PRESENTATION THE CONVERSATION. SO TO MY MIND WHAT WE WHAT I THINK WE'VE GOT ALREADY A VERY WORKABLE INSTRUMENT IN THESE SOFT CATEGORY. RIGHT.
THE QUALITATIVE CATEGORY AND SO WE'RE OK BECAUSE WE'VE GOT SOMETHING THAT AND IT'S CODED.
AND THEN WHAT WE CAN DO MAYBE AS A COMMITTEE IS LOOK AT WHAT CAN WE PUT WHAT THINGS CAN THE CAN THE BOARD GATHER, WHAT INFORMATION THE BOARD GATHERS THAT WOULD SATISFY THE DATA REQUIREMENT IN TERMS OF EVALUATING THE SUPERINTEND. AND I MEAN I'M HAPPY TO.
DANIEL, SOUNDS LIKE YOU'VE DONE SOME RESEARCH. I'D LOVE TO SEE WHAT WE'RE KIND OF YOU'VE GONE WITH THAT WE CAN LOOK AT SOME BEST PRACTICES AROUND THE COUNTRY IN TERMS OF SPECIFICALLY TRYING TO LOOK AT QUANTITATIVE ASSESSMENTS OF SUPERINTENDENTS AND PROCESS
MODELS AND ALL THAT KIND OF STUFF. >> I MEAN I'D LIKE TO NARROW IT DOWN. WELL, IT SOUNDS LIKE, YOU KNOW, BASED ON THE ANTICIPATION OF WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN AT THE WORK SESSION. WE MAY GET SOME FEEDBACK THERE AND SOME MORE KNOWLEDGE BECAUSE I'M NOT FAMILIAR WITH THE PRICE THAT THE YOU HAVE MORE KNOWLEDGE ABOUT THAT THAN I DO. INGRID, WHAT'S THE NAME OF THE THE CONTINUOUS QUALITY
IMPROVEMENT? NO. >> DON'T HAVE THAT.
NO. THE WHAT WE'RE GOING TO. >> WHAT'S GOING TO BE THE WORK SESSION AGAIN IS THE O PERFORMANCE WAS PERFORMANCE MATTERS.
YEAH I'M NOT REALLY WITH THAT AND PERFORMANCE MATTERS IS JUST A TOOL.
>> YEAH IT'S NOT IT'S NOT THE REPUTATION BUT YOU KNOW THAT THE MODEL ITSELF IS TRIED UNDER DR. RODRIGUEZ MODELS IS HAS A COUPLE EXTRA COMPONENTS THAT SOME DON'T.
SOME HE HAS FEWER THAN SOME EXTREME ONES BUT PERFORMANCE MATTERS.
THERE'S REALLY AN ANALYTICS TOOL AND A TEST DELIVERY TOOL THAT'S A TOOL THAT THAT AIDS IN THE ENTIRE WORKING PROGRAM THE PROCESS. SO IT'S NOT DON'T THINK OF IT AS IT IS THE. IT IS THE PROCESS. IT IS A TOOL IN THE PROCESS THAT MAKES IT STREAMLINED AND MAKES IT UNDERSTANDABLE CONSUMABLE ALL THE WAY DOWN THE CLASSROOM LEVEL SO THAT THAT MONITORING CAN TAKE PLACE AT A MUCH YOUR LEVEL.
IT DOESN'T REQUIRE OVERLY RESOURCE INTENSIVE AT THE STAFF LEVEL.
[01:30:03]
YEAH, IT'S A PART OF SCHOOL. IT'S A POWERFUL MODULE. WELL, YOU KNOW AND I KNOW HE TALKED ABOUT BENCHMARKING AND THAT KIND OF STUFF DEVELOPMENT OF THOSE FORMATIVE TESTS.I SO I. THIS IS WHERE I GET A LITTLE CONFUSED A BIT BECAUSE I BUT THAT TRICIA PATRICK YOU KNOW, SHE TAUGHT IN FOR A LONG TIME TOLD ME THAT THEY HAD THOSE THAT THEY HAD DEVELOPED THOSE. YEAH. WE HAVE MARKED ASSESSMENTS.
WE HAVE TOOLS TO HAVE SOME ASSESSMENTS THAT WE USE. BUT THEY WEREN'T NECESSARILY ALL NOT ALL OF THEM ARE ALL TIED AROUND VETTED AND TRUE RELIABLE TEST ITEM BANK.
SOME OF THE WORK WAS DONE WITH ,YOU KNOW, TEACHERS WRITING ASSESSMENTS JUST PERFECTLY FINE BUT THEY WERE THEY DO. BUT WITH PERFORMANCE MATTERS WITH THAT IT ALLOWS US TO VARY OUR LEVEL OF DEPTH OF KNOWLEDGE BASED ON THE QUESTIONS THE TYPE OF QUESTIONS THE ITEM BANKS ALIGN CAN SMI STANDARDS. SO THE CREATION OF AN ASSESSMENT.
YES, THERE ARE STILL THE INTIMATE READ THE QUESTION. WE COULD SEE THE INTENT BUT IT'S AS EASY AS REALLY YOU KNOW AT THIS POINT IN OUR MAP OR OUR PACING WE SHOULD BE ADDRESSING STANDARD X, Y AND Z. I WANT TO CREATE AN ASSESSMENT THAT IS JUST ON STANDARDS X LINES. I WANT TO HAVE A D OKAY. VARIETY FROM YOU KNOW, TWO, THREE, FOUR. SO WE GET INTO SOME RIGOR OF THE ASSESSMENTS AND I WANT TO BE 25 QUESTIONS. I MULTIPLE CHOICE. SHORT ANSWER AND SO MATCHING THE SYSTEM WILL GO OUT, SCOUR THE ITEM BANK FOR ASSESSMENT ITEMS, BRING THEM BACK, MAKE THE ASSESSMENT WE DEPLOY THE ASSESSMENT BUT THEN THE POWER OF THAT REALLY IS WITH THE ANALYTICS ON THE BACK END WHERE WE CAN THE TEACHER SEE IT IMMEDIATELY THEY CAN BRING IN ALL THE DEMOGRAPHIC INFORMATION DISCIPLINE INFORMATION, ATTENDANCE INFORMATION AND START LOOKING AND SEEING CLASS AUTOMATICALLY. WE'RE NOW THEY GIVE THE ASSESSMENT THEN LET'S SIT YOU APPEAL SEE WHERE WE ANALYZE THE RESULTS THEY CAN DO ITEM ANALYSIS AND THEN SECONDS. SO THAT'S WHERE THIS TOOL WILL MAKE THE THE ACTUAL PROCESS EASIER. SO IT'S NOT THAT WE DON'T HAVE ASSESSMENTS.
I CAN TELL YOU RIGHT NOW I HAVE NEVER ANALYZED ANY COMMON ASSESSMENT IN MY OFFICE FOR THE SCHOOL DISTRICT EVER. AND DO WE HAVE CURRICULUM MAPS ? YEAH, WE HAVE CURRICULUM MAPS. SO THIS WILL TIE THE CURRICULUM OUT TO THE PACING, TO THE ASSET, TO THE ANALYSIS TO THE. YEAH. YEAH.
ALL OF THAT NOW WILL BECOME SEAMLESS ALONG WITH SOME OTHER TOOLS THAT THE STATE HAS PURCHASED LIKE A LIKE A LEARNING OBJECT REPOSITORY THAT IS STANDARDS BASED ACTIVITIES UNITS LESSONS THAT THEY'VE PURCHASED FOR US THAT COMES IN THE STATE PURCHASE SCHOOLS FOR US. SO THEY ALIGN THAT. SO THERE'S THERE'S MULTIPLE PIECES THAT ALL KIND OF COME TOGETHER IN A LARGER PACKAGE THAT WILL HELP WITH THE ROLLOUT
OF A REVAMPING OF THE MODEL. >> SO THERE WAS A IN ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WAS LOADED INTO BOARD DOCS AND WAS IN THE POWERPOINT THERE WAS A PICTURE A TEACHER'S CLASS AND THINGS WERE CIRCLE. YOU KNOW THAT THE STANDARD MASAKO CALLED AND WHERE THE STUDENTS. IS THAT FROM THAT DR. STRATOS HAD I DO NOT KNOW.
I'M NOT FAMILIAR WITH THAT. SO I CANNOT SPEAK TO THAT ONE, OK? I DIDN'T READ IT IN DEPTH. YOU KNOW, I JUST LOOKED AT IT AND IT LOOKED FAMILIAR.
I MEAN IT LOOKS LIKE, YOU KNOW, THINGS THAT I HAD SEEN BEFORE WERE THAT GAVE YOU A AS CLASSROOM TEACHER AFTER YOU GAVE AN ASSESSMENT. YOU KNEW WHO NEEDED REMEDIATION, WHO GOT IT, WHO DIDN'T. THAT TYPE OF THING.
OK. SO WHERE DO WE GO FROM HERE? WHAT SHOULD WE DO? WE'LL DEFINITELY WE SHOULD SCHEDULE OUR NEXT MEETING AFTER THE WORK SESSION.
SO HOW ABOUT THE FIRST WEDNESDAY IN APRIL? >> OK, WHAT TIME?
>> THE FIRST WEDNESDAY IN APRIL APRIL SOUTHERN. DO YOU WANT TO WAIT THAT LONG?
>> YOU WANT TO GO TO MARCH 30 FIRST? LOOK AT BOTH THOSE DATES ARE FINE. I DON'T THINK THERE'S A HUGE RUSH.
I MEAN I'M FINE WITH EITHER DAY BECAUSE I DON'T THINK WE REALLY NEED TO DO MUCH IF WE'RE GONNA HAVE THIS LIKE, YOU KNOW, WORK SESSION. SORRY.
THIS KEEP TRYING TO UPDATE THIS THING. I DON'T THINK WE WOULD DO THAT TILL THE SUMMER. YOU KNOW, IT'S KIND OF QUIET OR BUT WHEN'S WEDNESDAY APRIL 7TH ASSIGNED TO ME? LANDLORDS THAT WORK FOR YOU? YEAH, THAT'S THAT'S FAR ENOUGH OUT. SO YES. AND YOU KNOW, EVEN IF IT'S JUST
[01:35:01]
A SHORT MEETING ON A DEBRIEF OF THE WORK SESSION. >> WELL, YEAH.
WHAT TIME DO YOU DO THIS WORKS FOR EVERYONE I LOVE DURING THE DAY.
OK. YOU SAID IT LIKE THIS ELEVEN THIRTY TIME OK.
OKAY. ROBIN DOES THAT WORK? >> OKAY.
>> AND DANIEL IF YOU HAVE ANY RESOURCES TO START BECAUSE I WOULD KIND OF HELP GET ME STARTED ON THE PROCESS. YEAH. I FEEL THIS IS A REALLY BIG BITE FOR ME AND I JUST YOU KNOW IF YOU HAVE ANY IDEAS OR SUGGESTIONS PLEASE BOREDOM TO ME. YEAH I CAN SEND OVER IF YOU DON'T KNOW IT'S EASY READ BUT LIKE SOME JOHN HOW WE WORK SOME YOU KNOW SOME OF THE OTHER RESEARCH WORK IT MIGHT KIND OF LEND TO SEEING WHAT WHAT RESEARCHERS HAVE SAID IS THE MOST HIGHLY EFFECTIVE STRATEGIES. YES. THAT WAY YOU CAN SEE THAT AND YOU CAN START WRAPPING YOUR MIND AROUND HOW THAT COULD APPLY TO THE EVALUATION.
YOU KNOW IF X IS IMPLEMENTED FACILITY WE SHOULD EXPECT, YOU KNOW, AN OUTCOME OF Y.
YEAH. I THINK IF YOU SEND THAT TO ALL OF US THAT WOULD BE GREAT AND
WE CAN YEAH AND I'D LIKE TO GET MORE INFORMED THEM AGAIN. >> SURE.
THE LANDS THAT I'M SHIFTING TO IS LOOKING FOR HOW DO WE QUANTIFY PROCESS.
RIGHT. DAN I WAS LAUGHING. HE'S LIKE I FINALLY GOT HER
THERE OK. >> DESCRIPTION BUT IT'S NOT IT'S NOT A FINALLY GOT THERE.
IT'S IT'S IT'S HONESTLY IT'S IT'S AN AUTHENTIC CONVERSATION I THINK.
YEAH. WHERE THE HEAD OF ACCOUNTABILITY YOU KNOW DR.
RODRIGUEZ WHERE THE HEAD OF ACCOUNTABILITY WHEN HE WAS IN FLORIDA BEFORE HE WAS AREAS WE PRESENTED SO YEAH WE THINK IN BLACK AND WHITE AND WE KNOW ALL THAT BUT WE ALSO KNOW IN THE FIELD OF EDUCATION WE HAVE TO MEASURE PROCESS NOT ALWAYS THE OUTCOMES GETTING DIFFERENT OUTCOMES. I'VE BEEN HERE SINCE 2003 AND I HAVE NOT PRESENTED TO YOU GUYS EVER THAT SOMEHOW THE OUTCOME WAS MAGICALLY DIFFERENT. SO IF WE START MEASURING SOMETHING DIFFERENT WE'LL GET A DIFFERENT OUTCOME AND I KNOW THAT'S WHY I SAY SOMETIMES JUST LOOKING AT GROWTH VERSUS AND I KNOW PEOPLE THINK THAT THAT ISN'T AS AUTHENTIC LOOKING AT GROWTH VERSUS HOW MANY KIDS ARE PROFICIENT WE WANT EVERYONE TO GET PROFICIENT.
BUT YOU KNOW WHEN WE CAN GROW OUR LOWEST KIDS A COUPLE YOU KNOW, IN BIG STEPS THEY MIGHT NOT BE PROFICIENT AT THAT. THEY'RE THEY'RE GROWING AT MORE THAN A YEAR'S PACE.
THAT'S SOMETHING YOU KNOW, TO BE HAPPY WITH. SO I THINK THIS IS THIS IS A KIND OF EXCITING FOR ME A LITTLE BIT BECAUSE I FEEL LIKE THIS IS GONNA TEACH ME A LOT
ABOUT THE SCHOOL SYSTEM. >> WELL, IN YOUR YOU KNOW, YOUR INFORMATICS AND YOUR MEDICAL ANALOGIES ARE HELPING ME BECAUSE I I'M YOU KNOW, KIND OF LIKE BLINDSIDED BY THE THE EDUCATIONAL COMPONENT BECAUSE THAT'S BEEN MY LIFE AND MY EXPERIENCE.
SO IT'S GOOD. AWESOME. ALL RIGHT.
I'M LOOKING FORWARD TO LOOKING AT THAT RESEARCH. YEAH, I WILL SEND SOME STUFF OUT. I'VE GOT GATHER SOME LINKS TOGETHER FROM WHAT I CAN HAVE BUT THAT'S EASY TO FIND THAT STUFF. BUT I'LL SEND YOU OUT SOME LINKS AND SOME SOME INFOGRAPHICS, SOME OTHER STUFF THAT KIND OF HELP TO MAKE A LITTLE BIT MORE PALATABLE. OKAY. OKAY.
EARL, DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING ELSE? ANSWER FOR ME.
[Discussion of Future Meetings]
OKAY. SO OUR NEXT MEETING OF THE AD RESULTS COMMITTEE WILL BE WEDNESDAY, APRIL 7 AT ELEVEN* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.